>>7639308 yea, gravity's rainbow actually had insane insights into free will, protestant foundations of america, and the relationship of language to text, meanwhile infinite jest was like "lol ppl watch tv and thats dumb also drugs"
>>7639394 >Pynchon is better because he has range as a novelist
yeah what's that one pynchon novel where the main character(s) finds themselves in the middle of a conspiracy that may or may not exist? the one with the large amount of characters? and the references to obscure pop culture?
>>7639413 nice deflection. very ironic to avoid discussion
all of pynchon's most acclaimed works have what i mentioned, the only range he ever displays is how much research he did when it came to the prose in m&d and how basic he can be in inherent vice and bleeding edge
>>7639428 Alright alright. You've sure got a point but the diversity is in what you've typed out. What other author can switch between 70s California, Post WWII, Colonial America etc etc as well? And the research and characters are his strong points. Pynchon is able to take a huge pile of little things about the era and make you feel like you're living it.
David's a great author and just as funny but in all three of the novels you have the same ideas of being trapped, whether it's in your relationships, school or job, the same Wittgensteinish inability to communicate. His short stories show brilliant range from little pieces Incantations to more novelistic stories like Westward the Path of Empire etc.
could've swore i mentioned his prose not having any variety outside of the three books i mentioned. and what i mentioned prior, only one of those had bearing on plot. nice desu meme senpai
>>7639442 ...and inherent vice, and V. and GR until its finally discovered that they weren't just chasing a ghost
>>7639446 >What other author can switch between 70s California, Post WWII, Colonial America etc etc as well?
fair point, he's definitely diverse in that aspect but his themes and general structures are all too similar. i'm not defending dfw but /lit/ likes to act like pynchon has crazy amounts of differences in each of his works and there really isn't too much. also westward is probably one of the worst things i've ever read
>>7639452 >he doesn't like weed go back to smoking david's cock lmao just remember your straight edge idols were all junkies who couldn't take it before they started preaching or admitting hypocrites shortly after
>>7639455 I liked it, but it did seem like it had the whole Wallace family kitchen sink thrown in. The characters were well done though the main was too much of an Ur-Hal. "Ronald," his car and his dad stole the story though.
>>7639452 >>7639460 Not everything is about your idiotic addiction. And DUDE DOWN THE TOLIET PRUSSIAN PUSSY FOR THE WIN XD is even worse than LOL HE TURNED INTO A BUG MAN in the tight contest for worst /lit/ meme.
>>7639253 If you're going to make the claim that one hulking work of literature "ripped off" another that was written 90 years earlier, can you please fucking cite some sort of evidence. It makes discussion so much easier.
Fucking love how people try to interpret David Foster Wallflower >smart, hyper intellectual, bred and raised for academic success >fails at STEM, writes complex lit instead >not only wants to impress old white men and hot poetess at universities, but wants tell a story to the masses >gets acclaim and fame + swims in student pussy >depressed and bogged down in his third novel, which by extrapolation would be 3000 pages plus >kills himself at age at which HCB was still a filthy unrecognized and unloved drunkard
tl:dr white middle class college kid couldn't deal with life, despite writing a generation defining novel and recognition.
I think DFW is definitely canon, but I just want to kick his autistic ass every time I see/read an interview or his biography
>>7639563 kind of an ignorant view of depression, don't you think? i don't know why he killed himself and he could have definitely written something greater, turned his life around at some point, etc., but that's not really how generous severe depression is
>>7639584 Churchill was fucking depressed and won a fucking war. Yes depression is a diseases like polio, but also polio didn't keep Roosevelt from winning same fucking war. I think its a fad to say " ow your affliction is terrible, you have no power over your life."
>>7639584 People have agency. Sometimes mood disorders manifest in a desire to commit murder; had DFW done this, his condition wouldn't have been severe enough to validate an insanity plea. There were ways around it; in a meaningful sense, he failed to do the right thing.
>>7639466 If that's all you got out of Gravity's Rainbow you should probably stick to Dr. Seuss. He might be more your speed. >>7639614 I think it has more to do with how depression was treated than muh willpower. Anti-depressants didn't come around till the 50s and they're still kindof a crapshoot. They used to use opiods and amphetamines before that which is worse in some ways but anti-depressants, especially the shittier early ones like what DFW was on tend to either work with massive side effects or be completely worthless.
DFW is about as "period piece" as it gets. He only describes white people ages 18-38 who have smoked weed and got sad or something before, and who thought the 90s were good for fiction. He really had nothing to say other than aphorisms like "TV isn't good ya know..."
I know Harold Bloom is mocked for saying it, but it's true: he couldn't think. I would say he couldn't write either, since he writes in a style that's so filler and unnecessary and entirely just to pretend he's in line with the avant garde writers of the 80s and 90s, and lifts entire chapters of style from Kafka and DeLillo. He couldn't write.
He's not canon, in fact I think he'll be forgotten entirely by 2030.
>>7639678 He was already talked about and considered one of the most successful contemporary writers of the time before he killed himself. It's not like a John Kennedy Toole situation where he was unknown and unpublished before he offed himself.
>>7639688 But early death augments the renown of an popular artist permanently. Kurt Cobain is the classic example. Yeah, even before he died he was hugely popular, but his suicide automatically elevated him to mythical status. There's a good chance if he were alive today making mediocre solo albums he'd be viewed more as a burned out star just trying to replicate the success of his past.
>>7639711 This was a guy who was treated like a celebrity for being an author of literary fiction in a time period when no one gave a shit about "serious" fiction anymore. Even if he hadn't died, as long as he was alive and putting stuff out that was at least consistent with his most well known work, he'd still be talked about. Also you have to remember that he only died 8 years ago so it's not like we're talking about him decades later when he could've been forgotten.
>>7639744 Yeah, if this isn't a troll is just silliness. >something better Well I've written some works of fiction. Who's to say they're not better than DFW's works? You? Have you written anything better than what I've written? Who's to say?
>>7639563 >>fails at STEM, writes complex lit instead He didn't fail at it, he was actually quite good. He said something like he felt as if he was only using 50 or 90 percent of his mind/soul/what-have-you doing philosophy or mathematics, but literature used him up completely, consumed him.
>>7640168 The Incandenza's family drama sort of mirrors to ETA (The King who dies, The King's brother who takes over, the King's wife who marries the King's brother, the King's ghost who still wanders the castle, etc...)
>>7640168 Yes. IJ is ostensibly a novel about communication and DFW links Hamlet to IJ consistently as a way of illustrating how literature not only communicates with its audience, but with itself. It's hardly a coincidence that the first two words of Hamlet are "Who's there?" and the first two words of IJ are "I am". The anon above me mentioned a lot of the parallels with 'plot' between the two texts as well.
Hamlet also dealed with the theme of stunted communication but it handled it in a different way. Nobody meaningfully communicates even once in Hamlet. Hamlet won't talk to Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, he can't address the problems he has with Claudius to his mother or anyone else for that matter. He just bottles it up and becomes a fucked up little shithead.
Claudius mirrors this too I would say but I'd need to read the book again to explore it more.
Can you really "rip-off" something that's as influencial as Ulysses? I mean, isn't a rip-off something that is passed as original and good in spite of something else, which is impossible to do if you're mimicking the most wanked novel of the 20th century?
Infinite Jest makes me cringe. It's so pandering to the '70s and '80s postwar lit it's embarrassing. It isn't a ripoff of Ulysses; that, my boys, would be Under the Volcano, which is an equally cringeworthy and pandering "Am I /lit/" novel of its times.
I'm guessing the guy who is posting WALLACE> PYNCHON went to a US university with a <50% acceptance rate and doesn't even crack the top 100 US colleges by any stretch.
>>7641406 I fully recognize that Pynchon is complex. That doesn't mean I have to like him. You come off as a tryhard when you blame other people for disliking something with essentially saying "its 2deep4u".
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