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Let's discuss the folly of optimism.
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You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature

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Let's discuss the folly of optimism.
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>>7622266
let's not and be happy about it.
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>>7622286

You're delusional.
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>>7622312
am i? prove it.
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>>7622327

Have you even read Candide?
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>>7622332
up until the princess got gangraped.
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>>7622266

Less folly than your shallow satirization, dude.
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>>7622339

Why'd you stop? Did it trigger you? Can't handle the reality of what happens in the world so you need to hide behind the drapes of optimism?
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>>7622347
who said i was an optimist?

i just don't like to read about rape, especially when the book was presented to me as one of the most hilarious books ever written. i don't think gangrape is funny. if you do, that's okay.
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>>7622347
>>>/b/
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>>7622348
>>7622348

It's not meant to be funny, imbecile. And no, I don't think gangrape is funny, but I can read about it because my mind is not a special snowflake and I don't need a safe space every time I read something that I am against.
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>>7622351

>>>/trash/
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>>7622354
i didnt say it was funny, it's presented as hilarious by many many people, however.

why is it that i should be forced to read about a gangrape? literature for me is for pleasure. I do not read it for any other reason than for my own enjoyment. I don't enjoy reading about gangrape. That is not me receding into a "hugbox" or "safe space". It's me not reading what i do not find pleasure in. If you can't accept that, it's not my problem.
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>>7622354
>my mind is not a special snowflake
Do you even know what you're saying? Not the guy you're responding to but seriously go back to /b/ you fucking edgelord. Some people have been raped and don't like to read about rape because it's uncomfortable. Why do they need to force themselves to read something they're uncomfortable with.
>dude just man up bro grow some balls
When you're out of high school and gain some perspective you'll realize how stupid this attitude is.
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>>7622368

> Some people have been raped and don't like to read about rape because it's uncomfortable. Why do they need to force themselves to read something they're uncomfortable with.

They don't. They can skip over it. Putting down an entire book, which is consistently ranked as one of the most important and influential pieces of literature ever written because of >muh feelings is pathetic.

You're taking what I have said out of context and over blowing it. Grow up, little miss sensitive.
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>>7622364
>If you can't accept that, it's not my problem
literally rape mentality
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>jr year of high school
>my grade point average is dire the tracked american public school system has failed to capture my fancy and i spend many late nights on wikipedia
>people are beginning to talk and worry about where they're going to college
>realize my grades are beginning to be at odds with my prospects in higher education
>reflexively move towards reading independently with the disaster of college looming
>it just so happens that's the week I decided to read Candide
>I realize I have to cultivate my garden

love the man
>>
I thought the gang rape was hilarious just like how i laughed at everyone that got murdered. Which is worse than being raped.
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>>7622383
>doesnt know how to use the word literally

i'm sorry that you feel so strongly that you want to insult people about me not reading Candide. i really do think you need to get out of your literary hugbox, and stop being such a special snowflake when someone doesnt agree with you, or do what you want them to do.
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>>7622381
the problem is that it's not discretely rape scene/not rape scene, there's a build-in and there's suspense and the reader realizes what's going on and that's where a lot of the anxiety comes from

here's a true personal story: in school I had a problem with self-harm for a number of years, and there's a scene in great expectations where jaggers makes his servant show everyone her mysterious scars -- I almost couldn't read it, and that's merely a trigger to my past with self-harm, not some life-long trauma event like a sexual assualt

people who experience these symptoms would often just rather stay away, I would love to read a bunch of psychological tracts about depression and self-harm but I'm over it by now and just can't motivate myself to read about it, even though it would be of tantamount personal intrigue
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>>7622392
>which is worse than being raped
that's up for debate
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>>7622381
I can put down whatever book I want for whatever reason I want
Candide didn't say anything that hasn't already been said by Shakespeare or the Greeks or someone else. You're delusional if you think otherwise.
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>>7622396

You're probably

A) Female

B) Tell people you just met in real life you self harm for attention

Just fuck off, ok? If you're going to self harm at least cut your wrists the proper way. I wish I had the balls to kill myself but I don't.
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>>7622404
>has trouble with reading comprehension
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>>7622404
male, it's been five years, i never talk about it, but it comes into play when I read sometimes and I understand people who experience this with their history of abuse or whatever the trigger may be
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>>7622406

>I used to have trouble with self harming :(

How did you self harm? Cutting your upper thighs right?
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>>7622410
cutting and burning, generally above the bicep or sleeve
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>>7622410
not the same anon.

>>7622408
you know, that's a valid point, but the reason i stopped reading wasnt a trigger from the gangrape in candide, i just didnt want to read it. I read enough about rapes in the news, and i don't want to mix pleasure with rape. for example, i stopped reading El Buscon when the child is at the orphanage and one of the fellow children climbs into his bed and shits on him, while they all beat him mercilessly. It wasnt because I was triggered, it was because i simply didnt enjoy it.
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if anything, this guy here is telling me I should read things i don't enjoy because of HIS feelings, all the while attacking me because he thinks my own feelings are getting in the way. it's pretty ironic, if i do say so.
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>>7622417
I feel the same way about Blood Meridian.
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>>7622420
You, Voltaire and this whole thread is fedora tier.
Please leave /lit/ forever.
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>>7622415

What a moron.

>>7622420

Basically this
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>>7622424
because voltairean optimism has never been discussed and how dare we, right?

candide is SO chaotic, I'm sure people find hundreds of reasons to skip over certain parts
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So many threads here have to devolve into personal trifles: Who can lob the most provocative insults? Who can meme the hardest?

Who should give a fuck?

We had the potential for a good thread, and we started off by fucking it up.

Don't we want this to be a board worth visiting?
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>>7622449
you saying that people should be more optimistic?
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>>7622396
>over it
>can't read about it
sounds like you're delusional
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>>7622449

That's what happens when tumblr visits /lit/

>muuuh rrapppe

basically derailed the thread
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>>7622455
how dare I skip a passage which runs up all too closely with my single most deeply-held personal insecurity? why are people so sensitive now, right?
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>>7622456
sorry that an intelligible side conversation about a relevant topic broke out while you were trying to jerk off to your philosophy cred over one of the most widely read authors ever
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>>7622456
>people who are victims of rape can only browse tumblr
kill yourself
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>>7622461

>Having a fit about something that offends you in a novel is now equated with being intelligible.

Whew lad. That's enough /lit/ for tonight.
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>>7622463

No. But it does have a lot to do with identity politics. Nobody cares if you were raped if you want sympathy go to a monastery.
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>>7622474
I wasn't raped but I have sympathy for those who have been
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>>7622467
Your dialectic of what is "offensive" doesn't work here, jack. No one said anything of the sort

You are a miserable human
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it's funny, i kept reading catch-22 even when the maid was raped, because i still enjoyed the book. rape is not an end all be all thing that makes me stop a book. Candide's first scenes were some guy fucking a maid in the bushes, and then a princess gangrape scene. it was bawdy and boring to me, i stopped reading not because i was triggered but because i just didn't feel like reading anymore. why is it that everyone takes up arms against people sensitive to rape anyway? rape doesnt necessarily offend me, i don't like it, i wish it didnt happen, but its offensiveness is fairly relative to the context surrounding it. but i guess too many people are busy being grumpy edgefags ITT who want legitimate reasons to trash others for not reading their favorite books.
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Optimism causes hope. Which leads to cognitive dissonance when you realize the hope for those expectations may never come true or you begin to falter on the path of what you hope for. Thus it is never a good thing to hope but rather work towards something for the sake of working towards it. The gratification and journey to your ideal should be enough to keep you going.
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>>7622502
grumpy edgefags is right
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>>7622461

My criticism (>>7622449) isn't about side coversations - it's about inflammatory tactics that derail constructive discussion, which really started here with >>7622347

Disagreement is totally acceptable - childishness and presumptuousness shouldn't be.
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>>7622494
You're a whiny sheltered child, go outside and face your fears
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>>7622513
what are we talking about, optimism? who cares? what is this, 1750?
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>>7622499
>You are a miserable human

You're not wrong. I hate living. If I had the courage to kill myself I would. You have no idea of what I've been through as a child and as an adult. If I had a choice I would not have been born in the first place.
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>>7622545
Cultivate that garden senpai
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>>7622397
just stop posting
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>>7622547

>tfw live in high end $600,000+ 1 bedroom condo in major Canadian city and can't even have a garden to grow herbs in.

I hate Vancouver
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>>1056172
ok
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>>7622555

u got trips tho so how bad can it b
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>>7622555
>Life is bristling with thorns, and I know no other remedy than to cultivate one's garden.
that's the actual Voltaire quote which corresponds to the last line of Candide
>"That is well said," replied Candide, "but we must cultivate our garden"

fwiw. but your absence of gardening space is regrettable
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>>7622555
get a terrarium or planted aquarium
or hydroponics
indoor plants
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>>7622515
>>7622474
Why do you insist on causing suffering? Why can't others do their own thing? Why is it necessary for you to be so edgy and "real world" all the time? Can't you just ignore things that you don't agree with?
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>>7622583

Because I'm not on drugs.
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>>7622584
oh
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>>7622548
Tell me how I'm wrong first
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>>7622396
You couldn't read a scene in Dickens because it highlighted someone's scars? I mean, I understand how triggers work but that seems a little extreme

I guess it's a strange suspenseful moment in the text tho
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>>7622620
well, I didn't skip it, but my anxiety started firing and I had to stop and collect myself before trying to read the rest of that part, even though I knew it had nothing to do with my thing. it was the way that dickens brought molly into the text scars first -- he's a fucking masterful writer, and i'm sure that was a good use of his dramatic talent, but there was a time in high school when i could barely stomach blood in a movie, so my stupid little neuroses and symptoms have definitely improved dramatically

i wouldn't blame anyone in my situation who didn't read that part, but i did read it
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>>7622627
I agree with not blaming someone who skips over a trigger. It's silly to skip text, but its silliest to suffer on purpose. If your symptoms are improving, something must be working so do what you must
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>>7622354
>but I can read about it because my mind is not a special snowflake
I don't think people abstain from reading about things they don't want to read about purely to impress others with how different they are.
>I don't need a safe space every time I read something that I am against.
I don't think deciding you don't want to read candide is the same as never being able to read about rape, I think the person you're replying to clearly made exception for a context where gangrape has appropriate gravity in the narrative, not candide, a "comedy."
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>>7622627
you know, i'm glad there are still people who are willing to admit that dickens was an amazing writer. too many people buying into the meme that he was utterly shit because he inflated his works. the guy was still one of the greatest authors of all time. just my two cents.
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>>7622670
the new monthly edition of a dickens serial must have been the nectar of life back then
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>>7622668
>I don't think deciding you don't want to read candide is the same as never being able to read about rape, I think the person you're replying to clearly made exception for a context where gangrape has appropriate gravity in the narrative, not candide, a "comedy."

that was what bothered me more than anything else, going into the novel thinking it was supposed to be funny, reading thread after thread saying that candide was the most hilarious novel they had read, and going into it, and thinking "man, these motherfuckers have a crazy sense of humor." during this time i was reading a lot of humor lit trying to get back into literature after being away from it for quite some time, three men in a boat, a confederacy of dunces, and catch-22 were other books i read at that time, and as i said earlier in this thread, i didnt stop reading catch-22 when the rape scene played out. I appreciated the contrast of humor to horror that played out in the book, whereas i went into candide, and almost immediately horrible shit was going on and i was expected to giggle to myself and keep turning pages. it was a bizarre experience. I guess that's the power of suggestion, I still wonder if people genuinely found those scenes hilarious, or just said so because the people who suggested it to them told them it was funny.
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to show an example of it being presented as hilarious or laugh out loud literature
http://ask.metafilter.com/37827/Laughoutloud-funny-classic-lit
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>>7622686
whoever recommended reading candide for laffs was greatly exaggerating, that piece is worth much more than that. there are some good social ironies and whatnot throughout, a lot to laugh about, but it's definitely a more serious work than like, the barber of seville or the marriage of figaro, which are what i think of for 18th century comedy
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>>7622692
i can definitely understand that. and i'm definitely not shitting on anyone else who appreciates the book. heh, i just don't want to read it. but that's where this all came from, me not wanting to read it. what can you do, eh?
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>>7622711
for now it remains outside of your interests but if you ever study anything to do with france, you'll have plenty of reason to read candide and other voltaire

if you like humor, honestly, his essays, letters, and occasionally plays are where he got the best comedic mileage
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>Voltaire
literally the Dawkins of his day
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>>7622726
nice meme, shitlord
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>>7622731
Me:
>I worship One, Uncreated, Eternal Spirit, Creator and Redeemer of man, Who pours out His spirit on the humble, and Who humbles the proud in their conceit
Dawkins:
>OH, SO YOU GET DOWN ON YOUR KNEES FOR THE INVISIBLE SKY FAIRY

Leibniz:
>I do not believe that a world without evil, preferable in order to ours, is possible; otherwise it would have been preferred. It is necessary to believe that the mixture of evil has produced the greatest possible good: otherwise the evil would not have been permitted.
The combination of all the tendencies to the good has produced the best; but as there are goods that are incompatible together, this combination and this result can introduce the destruction of some good, and as a result some evil.
Voltaire:
>OH, SO THE BEST OF ALL POSSIBLE WORLDS IS ONE WHERE MADEMOISELLE GETS GANGRAPED, IS IT? WELL, IF THAT'S THE CASE, WE MIGHT AS BEHEAD KINGS AND RAPE NUNS

baka
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>>7622743
great, go away you /phil/ cunter

there is nothing worse than /phil/ nerds who in 2016 have a bone to pick with voltaire as if nobody's ever had the opportunity to ask these questions before. god, just go and get yourself fucked you filthy collegiate son of a whore

you will never know joy
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>>7622747

>who in 2016

>>>/trash/

>using the year argument
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>>7622759
>shoehorning voltaire into your philosophical pablum just so you can be seen saying 'leibniz,' 'dawkins,' and 'voltaire' aloud in the same breath

>>>/the fuck outta here/
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>>7622762

What the fuck are you even talking about?
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>>7622766
voltaire as a writer, which is what he was, not this fucking metaphysically-obsessed grandiose philosophy character that people like you try to cast him in

go read the henriade
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>>7622768

I'm not trying to cast anything upon anyone. You're putting words in my mouth.
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>>7622769
you're putting words in voltaire's mouth plen
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>>7622775

What words did I put in his mouth? This is only my third post.
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>>7622777
>we might as well behead kings and rape nuns
far cry from "ideology is a social blight"
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>>7622778

I never said that. I honestly don't know why you're attacking me for.
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>>7622779
'tis okay, I thought you were the greentexter
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>>7622266
Voltaire was so much fucking cuter than all of his peers what the hell

Or maybe he enjoys the same benefit that Balzac does, where artists really respect him and paint him flatteringly when in reality he was probably a toad
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Reading this thread is like being gang raped.
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>>7622792

When I created this thread I wanted to have a constructive discussion. But god damn what a mistake it was. /lit/ has truly become infested with idiots.
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>>7622801
You wanted to be spoonfed and it didn't happen oh no
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>>7622808

I wasn't asking for homework help. I wanted to have an interesting discussion. Unfortunately due to morons like you it is seemingly impossible because all you can do is pollute this board with bullshit. Fuck off will you please?
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>>7622815
There's nothing to talk about. Optimism will hurt you. I don't know why you were so optimistic about this thread. So we talked about Voltaire and Candide and rape.
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>>7622821

Oh fuck it I suppose you're right
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>>7622829
this thread is a beautiful microcosm of candide desu
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>>7622839

Yes, I have to agree.
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>>7622815
I'm >>7622792. I haven't taken part in this thread. While I agree with you I think you're kind of asking for it when you start a thread with only 1 sentence. You leave your legs wide open for whatever shitposter manages to post some reactionary stuff first.
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>>7622845
I worship chaos
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>>7622845
>>7622845

>While I agree with you I think you're kind of asking for it when you start a thread with only 1 sentence. You leave your legs wide open for whatever shitposter manages to post some reactionary stuff first.

Triggered. This is literally rape culture.
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>>7622856

SONIC?
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>>7622601
You're arguing that the fact that people find out that you were raped is worse than the act of a penis being thrust into your vagina/asshole over and over again, against your will while you are just wishing for it to be over. Think about what you just said, you fucking retard, and stop posting.
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>>7624178
>doesnt know what trauma is
>thinks that a state of suffering is better than a state of nonexistence

hell, if you're christian, death is supremely better than rape.
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>>7624178
wait, reading back over that, you missed anon's point. he was saying that being raped can be worse than death. not people finding out that they've been raped.
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Candide made fun of Pessimism just as much, you know that right?
The only thing redeemable about it was the last line anyway.
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