Is stoicism possible in the modern late capitalist world? Is this school of thought compatible with the hedonistic and anxious lifestyle of the 21st century in the West?
What btfo'd stoicism? What's the best alternative?
I believe stoicism makes incorrect assumptions about human behavior that psychology later enlightened. It's a little too optimistic to believe that everyone can be a stoic without taking environment and genetic predispositions in consideration.
What makes you think the Hellenstics and Romans weren't hedonistic and anxious? In fact I don't imagine a single case in post-Athens western history where society couldn't be generalized by hedonism and anxiety.
The essential problem with stoicism is the metaphysical claims. That is,
a) The world is reasoned
b) A deity created the world to be accordance with reason
c) Humans are the only ones capable of reason, therefore is the human telos to be in accordance with reason, and thus the natural world and deities, giving our lives virtue
d) Since the world is reasoned, it must have a rational plan for the end, thus everything in the world is fated to reach that end.
Although the Stoics made more convincing and thorough arguments than this, this is the very basic outline of the metaphysics. Now, by taking the metaphysical claims as truths, the Stoics were able to make ethical statements such as not being bothered by disease, injury, poverty, solitude, injustice, et al. simply because these things were accordance with the plan of the world. To go against the plan of the world is to go against reason, which is the only true vice in the world just as being reason is the true virtue in the world. Many choose the ethical parts of Stoicism without acknowledging or believing the metaphysical, or even believing in self-admittedly irrational metaphysical religions such as Christianity (not a dog against the religion, but I digress). To believe in the Stoic ethics without their metaphysical backing is ludicrous.
Now, the answer to whether or not Stoicism is out-dated becomes a question of whether or not their metaphysics checks out. That answer is where 20th and 21st century skepticism gets in, and as a result is unanswerable. Though you should read the responses both direct and indirect to the metaphysical claims, which include
a) The world is not reasoned, not what we're apart of, or not the only world (Nihilism, Absurdism, Existentialism, Soplisim, Quantum Theory)
b) A deity doesn't exist, is unknowable, or did not create the world with reason (Atheism, or even Christian thinkers like Aquinas and Kierk assert claims against a Stoic deity)
c) Human telos, or the good life is subjective, or human beings are inherently irrational and in despair (Existentialism, Schophe, Skepticism)
d)There is no rational plan for this world (Any free-will argument or anti-determinism)
Then after this you can decide whether or not being a stoic in the 21st century is possible. Or you can lapse halfway through and consider blowing your brains out with a 12 gauge like I do because of self-doubt and self-hatred.
I don't think it's possible or desirable to follow any philosophy in the modern era, which I would call individualistic. If you follow a philosophy these days you are no different to those weird Elvis impersonators who hold events and compete to see who can be the most authentic Elvis. Philosophies were only useful in eras where people didn't live long enough to fully develop individual selves
don't do the 12 gauge stuff because of self-doubt and self-hatred, you're pretty knowledgeable in stuff. was about to write "wonderful" but i didn't want to sound patronizing.
though on the other hand, i joke about killing myself occassionally too, guess it's a way to cope.
>Philosophies were only useful in eras where people didn't live long enough to fully develop individual selves
What is it that determines whether or not you "fully develop" your "individual self"? The sheer amount of years you live?
That's really wrong though.
You need to realize that philosophy can't and never has given a person a surefire way to correctly live their life. Apply what's taught to yourself and yourself only.
Use your own discretion. Only you tryuly know what's right for you.
yet but more precisely it is the number of experiences you are able to have by 25-30 (when the brain is fully developed) as this is the stage of life where the self can be self-consciously constructed. Historically people were required to work from their early teens onwards and so never got a chance to develop an individualised self and so needed a philosophy to 'imprint' one onto them. But now people in the West are given a sufficiently long period in which to create their own selves that they have no need of cookie-cutter philosophies, which are necessarily crude and not calibrated to the demands of the era
>a) The world is not reasoned, not what we're apart of, or not the only world (Nihilism, Absurdism, Existentialism, Soplisim, Quantum Theory)
You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
Well considering the State has more control of the economy than ever (in the US and most other countries) I would call this early socialism and the State attempting to hijack private power, then when it screws it up it blames it on capitalism and leftists eat it up and point to Karl Marx
Stoicism directly influenced cognitive behavior therapy. And that's not even getting into what the stoics have to say about accepting the limitations of your body and mind.
As usual, /lit/ has no idea what it's talking about
>improving yourself, your relationships, and your understanding of then world is obsolete cause we have iphones now heh
lol, stick to memeing about dfw bro, you wandered into a big boy thread
Do you really think prolonging adolescence into your 20s is helping people find themselves. Do you really think working hard, braving the elements, and helping support your family in your teens and not living a soft life of luxury inhibits character growth, instead of the complete fucking opposite? Dude you're completely lost, Lmao go outside
>look at all this blatant bullshit I pulled out directly from my ass.
I don't care about what science has to say about it, niggas can't even agree on saturated fat like I'm gonna let them lecture me about "you can't control external events but you can control your reaction to them" being pre-scientific woo woo or whatever
>Boo hoo, become a stoic then turn back to life from your sickness and see how cool things really are, fammilia.
Fucking Nietzsche, this is complete shite
At one time having a large family was a practical necessity since there was nothing you could do if you got injured or became sick, so naturally belief systems arose which elevated the father and mother to a quasi-sacred status. But the family (and the state) have always been hindrances to personal growth once you get to a certain level of advancement.