/agpg/ - AGP General

>>7612857
>Do cis girls experience AGP?
It's debated whether or not AGP is the same as the sexuality of many/some cis girls.


>Am I AGP?
Share your experiences.

kill these, revert

>Does AGP mean you're not trans or repressed trans?
Some AGPs do have dysphoria and transition, others don't and live as straight or gay men.

to its previous state

>>7613200
I thought it would be good to have a change and try to stimulate conversation and encourage new posters to join? What's wrong with them?

The next OP can revert. Next time new things can be a single thread question at the top of the OP, like the thread theme, instead of replacing the FAQ.

>>7613220
>>Do cis girls experience AGP?
>It's debated whether or not AGP is the same as the sexuality of many/some cis girls.
this is throughly unsupported and is destroyed any time that shitty moser """"study""" gets brought up

>Am I AGP?
Share your experiences.
what is the point of this? there isn't one


>Does AGP mean you're not trans or repressed trans?
Some AGPs do have dysphoria and transition, others don't and live as straight or gay men.

is simply inferior to the previous version

>>7613251
>this is throughly unsupported and is destroyed any time that shitty moser """"study""" gets brought up
I put that so people might post about it and that if someone knew a better study they might decide to post it to answer the OP.

>what is the point of this? there isn't one
So that people who who don't normally post here or consider themselves AGP but feel close to the definition start posting.

>is simply inferior to the previous version
I wrote it to be shorter, so there's less to read.

>>7613275
but there's no reason to include it in an intro post if you're just going to pretend like it's actually valid. if you want to discuss something (and you shouldn't be baiting out that topic anyway because it just contributes to agp erasure) then post it in a theme like you did, but ultimately a place for that discussion is in another thread.

they would find us anyway, it doesn't matter

but it gives useless info in comparison, so you might as well have just taken it out then

>>7613288
>agp erasure

Lmao.

Why does this thread exist, we already have mtfg

>>7613288
Sorry. Yes, I should have just posted it as a normal question in the OP or later in the thread.

>and you shouldn't be baiting out that topic anyway because it just contributes to agp erasure
What do you mean? I don't think AGP is the same as cis female sexuality, but it has similarities. That's what I wanted to see discussed.

>but ultimately a place for that discussion is in another thread.
But it's an AGP topic and this is the AGP thread?

>>7613293
AGP isn't the same as being MTF.

I used to fap over wearing panties, but after 3 years on estrogen that fetish is totally gone

I'm pretty much convinced that agp is thus a result of testosterone + gynephilic sexuality mixing with trans traits

How many of you are transitioning/transitioned and, whether you have or not, do you have any advice?

I've had AGP for as long as I can remember. This condition finally explains the strange erections and arousal I had growing up. I've heard some babies get erections in the womb and I was probably one of them too. Thanks agp!

I don't look like a sexual deviant and I'm really not besides this AGP. I've taken the BDSM test and I'm almost 100% vanilla but really submissive, and on the androgyny test I scored really feminine. But I'm also, like a lot of Internet users, a former porn addict who went the whole nine yards and I tried quitting porn but no matter how long I quit for, my tastes never changed back. How can I consider myself a trans woman when I've spent so much time masturbating like a guy. Actually I never looked at videos ever, just pictures and stories, but I digress.

I was never like the other guys. That's what the other guys have always told me. I looked through my old school yearbooks and everyone could see it. Everyone but myself. I thought it was normal. Normal to always have to pretend to be manly and still be seen as gay.

Sometimes I feel like I'm really trans and I have to start my journey by coming out to my internet friends who have always suspected it, then other times I think, what am I thinking?

Sometimes I don't feel like a usual trans because I'm "straight", other times I don't feel like usual gays because I'm agp and my gay feelings are only a fetish, and then sometimes I do just feel like a usual straight guy. Sometimes I feel like it's normal for straight guys to feel like this and I just have more time to explore and develop the feelings.

All I really know is that I'm scared to be a man and being what's considered "feminine" is what comes naturally to me and makes me feel best. Sometimes being masculine comes naturally too, like my voice all of a sudden goes deep on its own, so it's hard to want to be just one way or the other.

>>7612857
>those boobs

Hormones are shit, SHIT. Why must I suffer with B-cups?

>>7613559
>How many of you are transitioning/transitioned and, whether you have or not, do you have any advice?
I'm not. I'm going to try a gay relationship, so I can feel feminine and don't need to repress and can experience something similar to what girls feel with a boyfriend. Although I'm not gay, I'm not exactly attracted to anyone else but myself, but my pseudo-bisexuality might make me more compatible with a man than a woman.

>Actually I never looked at videos ever, just pictures and stories, but I digress.
Same. It seems like a really trans/AGP thing.

>Sometimes I feel like it's normal for straight guys to feel like this and I just have more time to explore and develop the feelings.
There's a common trutrans early transitioner story of thinking all boys hate being boys and wish they were girls, then learning it's just you.

Maybe normal guys do have AGP thoughts from time to time but just as an unusual thing, not as their full sexuality.

>I looked through my old school yearbooks and everyone could see it. Everyone but myself.
What did your yearbook reveal?

>>7613559
Sounds pretty trans but then nobody truly knows if you are trans.

also I was wondering how many here are mixed handed/cross dominant? Neither right handed nor left handed. I feel like my gender issues are related to my brains wiring which manifests with this symptom of mixed handedness. I feel like that's why I process information so much differently than others too

>>7613616
Why do you think your handedness is connected?

>I feel like that's why I process information so much differently than others too
What do you mean?

Who else strongly attracted to other male bodied people, but only attracted to the version of yourself that is a woman and not other women?

>>7613659
I'm moderately attracted to men and strongly attracted to the thought of them with myself as a female.

I can't distinguish between my attraction to women and my attraction to the thought of myself as them. The two attractions are entirely combined.

>>7613559
AGP? Trans
I never liked videos either. Pics is where it's at. More personal. Is crossdressing part of the deal with agp? Can you be trans and not want to cd? People don't believe I feel like a girl just because I'm not a pretty princess. But I have dadgut and like loose clothes. I'm just a bi girl who dresses like a butch lesbian is that so outrageous? I'm so masc people have asked if I played football in highschool. How was I supposed to know I was trans at 12 when I'm attracted to girls and desire their characteristics on myself?

>>7613616
I like to think lefties are common among mtf.

>>7613757
>Is crossdressing part of the deal with agp?
Very often, but not necessarily. You can certainly imagine yourself as a girl without it. Blanchard defined transvestic AGP as one of several varieties, along with imagining the bodily functions of a girl, imagining sex as a girl, acting like a girl.

>Can you be trans and not want to cd?
It's would be unusual, but I doubt you're the only person like that with trans feelings on /lgbt/.

>>7613596
Be grateful for B's! They're still hot and you could be much worse! Like being male entirely!

>>7613772
Why?

>>7613627
It generally takes me a long time to get my thoughts together on something and then express them in the way I want it to in order to make sense to others, but when I do I usually provide valuable insights. I've come to realize I don't perceive reality the same way as most people, not that any two people are the same, but it's like I also see things from more than any one perspective at a time so I can relate with more people on ordinary things. Maybe I'm processing information from both a feminine and masculine perspective. I also remember reading that when you aren't dominant with a single hand, then your brain is connected differently and there's a lot more communication between the hemispheres. So the brain is literally processing information much differently, and it's being used differently. Which hand you prefer for any ordinary task may seem arbitrary but there's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes. I know this also sounds like I'm just looking for something to prove I'm different, but I'm really just curious about this.

>>7613608
True

>>7613601
I didn't get that until puberty though. I never really thought about the difference in genders until I saw the real changes in myself and people I knew.

In the yearbooks it was stuff like comments that friends left me and how I remember thinking of those comments, pictures of myself, especially pics with others, I look girly, and comments from teachers who talked about my gentle and sensitive nature.

Good luck with your relationship goals! I'm like this too. I can literally get off to myself like narcissus. I like being complimented and hate being insulted. Unless I take the insult as a compliment deep down? It comes down to whether I'm making the other person happy or not. My relationships never last with girls because I can't lead. No one can believe I'm still a virgin. Anyway I digress again and I'm really tired so I hope this post isn't too messed up

>>7613777
I'm not used to feeling attractive, and anything I change pretrans would seem disingenuous. For the longest time I went back and forth about being AGP because I desire female bodily functions I.e. lactating and vaginal piv. Didn't know about the other varieties.

>>7613819
Left is supposed to be the 'feminine' hand.

>>7613830
Yes. This is all me. I have epilepsy so feeling like I process things differently seemed 'normal.' it isn't. I can't describe it either but I relate to my world differently than girls or guys. First veil to fall. Virgin 23 here. I can't lead either. I wouldn't want to. Second veil.

>>7613757
>Is crossdressing part of the deal with agp? Can you be trans and not want to cd?
Doesn't have to be, I have only "body" agp which probably makes things worse since cd'ing doesnt do anything for me, I have to be make my body more feminine to relieve things.

I honestly like these threads at times and they've helped me cope in the past but the constant negativity and refusal to accept that most of the science we have on hand, Blanchard and Moser alike, is largely invalid drives me up the wall. Hearing the same tired "you just need to man up/take testosterone" broscience for the thousandth time exhausts me. I can't even bother to argue against ETLEs or "cis women experience AGP too!" yet again, especially since people will return to saying this shit next week no matter what I say.

Maybe I should leave but I don't have anywhere else to discuss this condition at.

>>7613251
>this is throughly unsupported and is destroyed any time that shitty moser """"study""" gets brought up
As unsupported as the concept of AGP itself, yet the OP doesn't outright calls Blanchard a quack. Moser and Blanchard both threw the rigorous science to the trash in order to arrive to the conclusion they wanted to arrive to.

>>7614011
It's getting better though, just about a year ago these generals were getting trolled to death whereas now they have some actual discussion.

>>7613559
>How can I consider myself a trans woman when I've spent so much time masturbating like a guy. Actually I never looked at videos ever, just pictures and stories, but I digress.

This is coming from an FtM who just wandered in to see what "AGP" was (sorry, didn't know the acronym), but that doesn't sound much like "masturbating like a guy" to me.

I mean, the FREQUENCY, sure, but that's pretty hormone-driven anyway, and it's not like women never develop porn addictions. I went from "twice a month" to sometimes twice a day on 50mg of T a week...I don't think you can draw conclusions about your gender identity from the frequency of behaviour that's hugely driven by your sex hormones.

And preferring stories over video is really feminine, if you ask me. Men consume video, women prefer dirty romance novels; it's part of why the "romance novel" industry simply churns them out, a lot of those book lines are simply soft porn.

And then you say you're "almost 100% vanilla," but that your tastes haven't "changed back"...haha, if you're vanilla, changed back from what, exactly? Personally, I "imprint" on fetishes way too easily (have to be careful what I look at, honestly), and I'm amazed at the idea that you spent years as a porn addict and didn't come out of it with a list of fetishes the length of your arm.

I'm not telling you how to identify. That's up to you. But that bit jumped out at me - I have no idea why you consider your masturbatory habits to be masculine.

>>7611008
Ok this is somewhat relevant to another thread I was in. >>7593222

Basically I turned to weed to help with AGP, depression and gender dysphoria. The OP beat his trannyism through sheer willpower and self programming and introspection. He criticized me for being a pothead instead of being sober and doing like he did.

>>7613293
>>agp erasure
>Lmao.
see
>>7613293
>>7612857

I like the thought of being a lady and wanting to marry a man whose not afraid to show his weakness but lets me help soothe him.

though realistically speaking, being a man as I have lived has only shown me that I'm feeling crushed. I have reoccurring thoughts of sexualized women and it slightly disgusts me but at the same time has me fighting myself for which role I want to be.

sometimes I want be the rag-tagged rough and tumble modest single man but I question the integrity of how long I could live the lifestyle since I'm not a very strong or smart person. I end up having to pent up my emotion instead of resolving it and eventually resolve it or distract myself long enough to forget.

>>7614418
I also like the thought of being a mom but it reminds me the conflicts between me and my mom. I end up not wanting transition or be much of a man except as much of me as needed.

>>7614304
I am the anon who wrote that. I also have agp and cannabis helped me greatly in introspection and understanding of what I truly want and where on the spectrum I am. The problem is most people are not responsible and most people don't know a thing about cannabis so the method of extraction (most are just burning the plant material), quality, dosage and time of the day of taking it is often quite off.

Another problem is that agp is not real in the sense it's a product of pseudoscience and until we get real about it we won't get much acceptance from the trans community nor we find a real help for each unique position (individual) on the agp spectrum. Yes the symptoms are very real but that's another thing entirely.

I am happy as a cis man and I have a cis girlfriend yet I know my sexuality is not expressed in the same vein as is in my male friends. I enjoy sex as a man with a woman but since I have agp and I am very empathetic I also get off to what my girl is experiencing when I am feeling it as it happening to me through her body. Cannabis enhances that effect greatly and I can experience two sexualities in me getting off experiencing both mine and her pleasures and orgasms and I feel them both inside as real and mine experiences. And thanks to agp I know exactly what she wants because it's what that girl inside me wants. I love the fact I have agp because the experience is breathtaking.

I am not attracted to other men but I believe experiencing sex with another man who would pull down my panties and sensualy dominate me and call me his girl in bed would be incredible especially on cannabis and just enough to sate my trans desires without ever needing to transition. Maybe I'll try it if I ever break up with my current girlfriend.

Is there anyone who tried a relationship with a man even though he is not attracted to men to satisfy his agp? If so how it went?

>tfw eyebrows are fucked up and idk how to fix them

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>>7613772
Leftie masterrace. Also noticed about half my EE lab colleagues are also lefties. I think we're just superior.

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Huh, I'd actually never heard of this shit before. I've wanted to be a girl for most of my adult life, but at the same time I'm totally fine with being male.

I find the female body and feminine traits and behaviors very beautiful and arousing, to the point that I strongly desire to actually BE female, so I too can be cute and wear feminine clothes and accessories.

The sexual emotions are a of course a big part of this, but it's also about me finding the female body and feminine clothes much more aesthetically pleasing, like you might prefer one piece of art over another.

So far this has only lead to me fantasizing about being a girl, and self-inserting as the girl in porn. I always pick female characters in video games, and I love to play dress-up with them and change their hair or makeup if the game allows it.

I've never cross-dressed yet, although I am considering it. The problem is that my body looks pretty masculine (and hairy as hell), so I don't know if I could make myself feminine enough for it to work. Should probably give it a go though, just for kicks.

I have no dysphoria at all. Being a guy is fine, although I would much rather be a girl. I wouldn't want to transition with the tools and procedures that are available today, so I'll just stay male and fantasize instead. It does make me realize how soul-crushing it must be for MtFs who repress until they're too old to transition properly, and then regret it. Good lord.

>>7614559
>It does make me realize how soul-crushing it must be for MtFs who repress until they're too old to transition properly, and then regret it. Good lord.
Try that +AGP and you have me. I'm alive because I'm holding on to the hope that some day some fantastic piece of technology can save me.

>>7614269
Thanks for your thoughts on this... I had some realizations while reading what you wrote!

Its just very common to hear stories on the Internet of guys whose porn habits escalated, and I saw mine escalate too. From solo girls to gay stuff. But whether I found men in porn to be attractive seemed to really depend on the nature of the scene. But anyway, yeah I went from being repulsed by naked men to eventually loving them. I fetishized women in a lot of ways and then I began fetishizing men too starting with the penis. I think it's about submission? Also the frequency dropped off years ago and then it never picked back up again. My libido does come out in waves though. Before I really was addicted and it was hard to stop but now I couldn't be like that even if I wanted to because the way I'm aroused has changed so much and I never feel the urge anymore. Visual indicators don't really turn me on anymore, I have to fantasize or feel it. And I can feel it at what seems like random times like while taking a sexuality quiz or while texting and someone gives me a nice compliment-- I'll get aroused from that but not from the visual stuff like looking at hot naked people.

But also I was thinking about videos and the few videos I did like. I think I never liked them because they're too real and so it's harder to fantasize. But I thought of three things. Two of these things were videos I saw when I was young and horny. I watched a handjob "tutorial"--and this was even back when I was repulsed by naked men--it had a scene of a guy and another of a girl, and it was the scene of the girl working on the guy that really stood out to me. I just rationalized it that the girl gave a sexy handjob. The other video was a porn actress pretending to be a girl exploring her lesbian side in the form of a video diary, and the third thing was that I inctinctively found the moans and groans in videos to be really hot, that was the only good part to me, the sounds of sex.

>>7612857
>Share hot girls you wish you were
I would but I also really like her as a person and don't want to send 4chan after her ;_; SHE'S REALLY COOL THOUGH

>>7616669
Just describe her, personality and looks. OP didn't say you had to post pics, and if you really wanted to, you could use pics of similar looking women instead of her herself.

>>7614269
>This is coming from an FtM who just wandered in to see what "AGP" was (sorry, didn't know the acronym),
For the record, autoandrophilia or AAP is the female/ftm version.

>And preferring stories over video is really feminine, if you ask me. Men consume video, women prefer dirty romance novels
But plenty of women do like video porn, even if it's a different kind or they aren't as keen as men?

>>7615126
What did you mean by "masturbating like a guy"?

>Also the frequency dropped off years ago and then it never picked back up again.
When/why did that happen?

>Visual indicators don't really turn me on anymore, I have to fantasize or feel it. And I can feel it at what seems like random times like while taking a sexuality quiz or while texting and someone gives me a nice compliment-- I'll get aroused from that but not from the visual stuff like looking at hot naked people.
Same. Is this a female thing? A trans thing? An AGP thing?

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>wake up and think what a dysfunctional failed human I am
>dully contemplate suicide
>think of how different my life could be if I was a woman
>get aroused and cant think of anything but having sex with men
>masturbate and feel shitty
>play vidia all day to forget it all

just end it

>>7614269
MtF not repressing here. Just FYI, almost all trans women are like this, whether they're repressed or not. They barely if ever watch videos and almost always look at "captions", stories with images. And most of the time, those captions don't even have pictures of real people, they're literally cartoons, like anime. It's not comparable to cis male sexuality, but all of them seem to be ashamed of masturbating at all and use their shame to repress further.

>>7617362
And I know a bunch who fapped to porn as usual (to TS porn too)

I got that AGP thing. My first time ever on this forum because of it...
From a few months now, I've been picturing myself as a woman whenever I masturbate. I've never had any gay experiences, nor I walk around gay people. I have nothing against them, I just haven't met many.

Anyway, back to the topic, I imagine myself as a really feminine girl, but someone who takes the first step - contrary to most woman I know.
I'd dress up very slutty, lol. I'd arouse up many guys and fuck like crazy...

There's this psychological stuff involved, after all, I'm not SOOOO good with women and sometimes I think they have the upper hand on life, just because sex is very easy for them... Well, all said and done.

>>7618437
>I've never had any gay experiences, nor I walk around gay people. I have nothing against them, I just haven't met many.
Plenty of AGPs are the same. You can imagine yourself with another woman or as a woman on her own. Even AGPs who do imagine sex with a man sometimes imagine him as faceless. It's the act of sex, not the partner, that's the turn-on.

In fact, the original AGP theory claimed all AGPs are lesbian and they couldn't be straight trans women. Although loads of AGPs do prefer guys or are bisexual.

>There's this psychological stuff involved, after all, I'm not SOOOO good with women and sometimes I think they have the upper hand on life, just because sex is very easy for them...
This is way too common to be a coincidence.

Imagining being a girl who takes the first step seems a bit unusual. Not having to do that is one of the ways women seem to have to upper hand to me.

Interesting that your AGP has only started a few months ago. Normally it seems to appear in the teens or even earlier.

>>7613891
Yeah I really don't want to sound like I'm trying to foster that us vs them attitude and box myself into something crippling, but this thread--the people who post their heartfelt ideas and experiences here--contains something that a part of me relates with that I don't see discussed anywhere else. It's really really cool to see you guys identify things like pseudo homosexuality as a manifestation of agp.

Anyway I just came across the wiki page for bigender and there was a study that drew a correlation between it and ambidextrous people. They theorized that it has something to do with the brain hemisphere dominance switching. Really crazy to see published work on something I felt during introspection.

>The study also revealed a high number of bigender people with bipolar disorder (9 out of 32). Additionally, ambidextrous handedness occurred at a higher rate in bigender respondents.[5]

>According to Case and Ramachandran, these findings suggest that there is a biological basis of bigenderism. They named this condition alternating gender incongruity and hypothesized that it may correspond to an unusual degree of hemispheric switching, or when dominance switches from one hemisphere to the other during a single behavior, and callosal suppression of sex appropriate body maps in the parietal cortex and its reciprocal connections with the insula and hypothalamus. They propose that "coordination between shifts in brain connectivity, autonomic response, hormone release, and dynamic representation of body gender might together create the sense of gender alternation experiencing by many bigender individuals." These researchers also disagree with the separation between neurological and psychological conditions and instead predict that alternating gender incongruity is a neuropsychiatric condition, but more research is needed to confirm this.[5]

>>7618437
>I'd dress up very slutty, lol. I'd arouse up many guys and fuck like crazy...
>There's this psychological stuff involved, after all, I'm not SOOOO good with women and sometimes I think they have the upper hand on life, just because sex is very easy for them...
Yeah this works for fantasies but don't base your views on them. In reality you have to worry about getting hurt and stuff...it takes strength and courage to be gaudy like that

>>7619188
>but this thread--the people who post their heartfelt ideas and experiences here--contains something that a part of me relates with that I don't see discussed anywhere else. It's really really cool to see you guys identify things like pseudo homosexuality as a manifestation of agp.
It's really really nice. Anonymity lets us be so open about things we can talk about nowhere else, with others who feel similar but have their own differences or ideas, so we can all learn.

>>7621732
Anonymity also allows /pol/ to endlessly psyop this thread with no repercussions. There are upsides and downsides.

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Agp is 4chan garbage, if you brought it up to a therapist they'd feel bad for u. Agp is a stupid concept thats not really rooted in any modern reputable source, and that the criteria for agp is shared by pretty much all cis women.

Stop spreading this stupid filth. If you're agp you're actually trans OR you're a cross dresser, but anyouwho puts this much thought into gender is always trans

>>7621788
Whether or not AGP exists, I mean obviously Blanchard's typology itself is blatantly misogynistic and lesbophobic, but like... You can't deny there are at least two different "types" of trans women, who are very very different.

>>7612857
Is OP's pic a trans girl, or is she a cis girl?

>>7621797
That's retarded sorry, there are actually all kinds of women who are trans just as with cis

>>7621797
Personally I think most of the perceived differences between the "trutrans vs agp" trans meme can be chalked up to our societies changing views on transgender people in the last 20-30 years, which has allowed trans people to take control of their lives and transition at a much younger age than ever before. I think a lot of transgender people from this generation forget how much fucking worse it was to be trans 20-30 years ago, and how much harder it was to transition.

>>7621788
I agree that Blanchard's conclusions make no sense but, I mean, I wrote this:
>>7620359
and "you're in love with your inner woman lol" silliness aside I kind of do experience something fairly close to AGP?

>the criteria for agp is shared by pretty much all cis women.
cis women are not usually turned on by being stereotypically feminine in some way, or by just dressing up in every day feminine clothes.

>Describe the girl you would like to be

Honestly, I don't put too much thought into how I would look like, how I would sound like. My face looks feminine enough without a beard,I'm 5 feet 4, and can sound feminine. Me without any hair and a slightly changed skeletal structure would be the kind of woman I want to be.

>describe her life and her partner and relationship

Well I'm currently studying mathematics. So probably working as a math prof with an intelligent and manly boyfriend who is working in a similar position. It's funny how I suddenly start finding guys hot when I assume a mental feminine voice.

I don't care any more, I'm tired of trying to figure it out

I'll just take it as it comes

>>7612857
Straight cis male here

EVERY MAN if they wear panties, will get a bit aroused I think, but it depends on how you TRY to be

If you always cross dress, you are trying to be a tranny

if you exercise masculinity, you are trying to be a man

Don\t be shocked if you act like a tranny, or faggot, and become one

Faggots are as faggots does.

>>7622635
really makes u think..

>>7622715
:thinking:

>>7622635
>EVERY MAN if they wear panties, will get a bit aroused I think
No way. Why would they? Guys like panties because girls wear them, not to wear them themselves.

I'm just now hearing about this. I guess it would describe what I've been going through my whole life.

I've always had the desire to be a female and fantasize about it a lot. Though I would never consider going on a treatment or surgery.

Given the chance to be fully female through some means, I'd take it in a heartbeat,

>>7613616
This could hold merit. I use my left hand for writing/drawing and my right for pretty much everything else.

>>7622816 (Continued)

>Describe the girl you would like to be.

Personality wise, I'd mostly stay the same. MY fashion sense would change and I'd probably be more apt to include more girly things into my interests and hobbies.

Looks wise, I'd like to be about 5'6, thin/athletic stomach, C cup breasts, a bubble butt, tan, shoulder length dark brunette hair, and facial features similar to the actress Sarah Hyland (nose, large eyes, facial structure).

>>7622816
>I've always had the desire to be a female and fantasize about it a lot. Though I would never consider going on a treatment or surgery.
>Given the chance to be fully female through some means, I'd take it in a heartbeat,
This is a really common perspective among AGPs. Not that many MTFs don't have AGP too.

Why wouldn't you transition? How much would transition treatment and surgery have to improve before you would hypothetically consider it seriously?

>>7622884
>Not that many MTFs don't have AGP too.

What is even the definition of AGP here?

>>7612857
>describe to me a fantasy that has no bearing on reality and does not actually help you in any real way

Geez.

>>7622884
>Why wouldn't you transition? How much would transition treatment and surgery have to improve before you would hypothetically consider it seriously?

Right now it's mainly due to the constraints of what is possible. I'm in my late 20s so I'm fairly sure hormonal treatment would yield very little desired effect and surgery hasn't reached that level yet (not that I could afford it if it ever did).

For me to 100% consider it seriously, it would have to reach the point to where it would be flawless (short of checking actual genetics). I'd still have the other problem of dealing with telling my family, but that wouldn't be too big of a deal.

>>7622961
>For me to 100% consider it seriously, it would have to reach the point to where it would be flawless (short of checking actual genetics).
So right down to new skeletal structure, cis girl proportions in every way, even pregnancy?

>I'd still have the other problem of dealing with telling my family, but that wouldn't be too big of a deal.
How would that go? Nice that it wouldn't be too bad.

>>7623131
>So right down to new skeletal structure, cis girl proportions in every way, even pregnancy?

I'd give a bit of leeway in regard to skeletal structure and height. No pregnancy.

>How would that go? Nice that it wouldn't be too bad.

They'd likely be surprised, though I don't think any would try to talk me out of it or be ultimately disappointed. I think the fact that I'd still be attracted to women would help too.

>>7623199
>No pregnancy.
That's interesting. Why? What other exceptions would you make?

>>7623536

As a man or woman, I don't think I want any children. I don't think they would be any other exceptions.

>>7622884
>How much would transition treatment and surgery have to improve before you would hypothetically consider it seriously?
Not that person but I kind of lost the genetic lottery so modern technology isn't good enough to bring me anywhere close to looking like a woman. I'd settle on looking like one of the more convincing transwomen. The sort that, even if they don't pass completely, look good enough to not evoke ridicule. Turning a stout giant into that, though, is currently beyond us.

>>7624483

Would you be ok with keeping your junk? I'd say that would be another exception I'd be willing to make but I'm unsure. If I had the option of having a vagina (unlike what is offered now), I'd take it.

>>7624535
It's weird. I dislike my body and so dislike my genitals as part of that sentiment but I don't really dislike them for being male? I'm not really dysphoric about them beyond them being another ugly feature of me. For a while I wondered whether I just hated being ugly and tried to imagine an ideal male body I'd like to have. I couldn't. Whatever I imagined felt weird. So I obviously do have a problem with being male, right? But when I imagine myself as a woman my genitals don't really seem important. I'm almost apathetic about that aspect.

Or, in short, I probably wouldn't mind, but only because I care surprisingly little about it.

>>7624694
Yeah, I don't think I would mind it in everyday life or if I didn't think about it. Aside from the fact that it's a male feature and would be a constant reminder.

>>7624694
>>7624747
I don't mind my genitals as a reminder of being male and I'd only get rid of them if I got something that really did have all the functionality of girl genitals, not just what I can be given now.

But I would prefer to not have them if I had that choice. They don't make me dysphoric, but they make me feel kind of sexless, because I can't have sex as a girl can and I don't want to as a guy can.

>>7625611
>I don't mind my genitals
The best you can hear from a transwoman about her balls and penis. Fuck transwomen, acquire shemales!

>>7622635
This. Every man would rather be a girl if given the chance, just most aren't retarded faggots who obsess over it. Live you're lives and just jerk off like everyone else.

t. straight white CIS male

>>7626271

How's idle fantasy anywhere close to autogynephilia?

>>7626271
Oh screw you. Most men don't want to be girls because:

1: most men are attracted to girls and it's easier to get girls when you're a man. I don't think men would want to become lesbians. And men typically want to be dominant.

2: Most males have masculine bodies and would look like hideous hons/clowns if they tried to be girls. Except for trutrans males, who have no problem passing as girls since their bodies were feminized in the womb.

Even if girls do have it easier in western society, there's a reason all men don't just transition and become girls, and this is why.

>>7614559
Tbh, I'm just taking on all the positive traits from the woman role whilst also taking on a bunch of positive traits from the man role and it's working really well.

I know I'd never look like a woman, so instead I look like a manly man and don't try to fight it, I even work out. But I still get to do things like being gentle and kind and caring and non-aggressive. It also results in people accidentally treating you like a woman (well, mostly guys, but I don't like interacting with cis women, so it's not really relevant how they'd treat me). It's immensely cute when you're a big guy and other guys can't help but be protective of you.

Modern women also make it really easy since they're so shit at being women, it's like you can out-woman them (in actions) without even trying.

>>7626877
>>7626859
You're literally delusional. 99% of men wish they were women, but they're not, and like men they understand this and accept the hand there dealt.
>2: Most males have masculine bodies and would look like hideous hons/clowns if they tried to be girls.
this does nothing to contradict the desire to be a woman, I'm not sure what you were trying to get at here. Of course the following sentence makes me assume you're trolling, but in case you aren't

Being a woman is shit.

Theyre bland looking, like piles of grease stored inside thin skin balloons. Theyre weak physically, and their beauty is a double edged sword that since its higher than in males it forms a greater attachment to their self image, turning a natural process of aging into an existential crisis.

Males have invented everything in every area.

Why the fuck be a bland useless female??

>>7626271
>>7627034
>Every man would rather be a girl if given the chance
>You're literally delusional. 99% of men wish they were women, but they're not, and like men they understand this and accept the hand there dealt.
Haha wow. Is there a more stereotypical repressor thing to say? This is like homosexuals thinking all men secretly like dicks but resist the temptation.

>>7626877
>trollstrollingtrolls.jpg

>>7627012
>>7627040
>Misogyny
Aaand the shitposters are back. Oh well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Women_inventors
also like half of the people on this list
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Women_computer_scientists

>>7627034

You're delusional if you believe anyone normal has autogynephilia.

Message me back when you start simulating attraction to other males.

>>7627375
No, just the weak beta ones like me who fuck everything up, can't get laid and spend too much time fapping. most men aren't like this and can get over their desires easily

>>7627412
That you think they have those desires in the first place is the funny thing.

>>7627412

Most men are not autogynephilic in any sense at all. Even if they watch a shit load of porn.

Out of the remaining ones, some men have temporary porn-induced autogynephilia which is ranges from being very weak to absolutely consuming. That might be curable. Men like me who have watched little porn have autogynephilia too, which I don't think can be really cured.

>>7627568
Yeah, this. My very first sexual fantasy was AGP-like.

>autogynephilia
And what is the word for those who are into shemales rather than binary women?

>inb4 autotransgynephilia
Not ideal, as "trans" is Latin, while the other three words are Greek. In addition, transwomen aren't shemales; transwomen are binary and shemales aren't.

>autoandrogynephilia?
Not ideal, as "androgynous" is used more as "asexual" rather than "shemale". Shemales aren't asexual; in fact they are more sexual than either gender.

From /lgbt/ archives: >>6866751 >>6866811 in >>6866636
>Is it autoandrophilia when cis men have a positive body image?
>Is it AGP when cis women have a positive body image?
>Is it autoandrogynephilia when intersex people have a positive body image?

Even more interestingly, the word "autoandrogynephilia" has been used in the world before... but ONLY on this very board.

http://archive.is/2017.01.23/https://www.google.com/search?q=autoandrogynephilia&filter=0&nfpr=1&num=100

The world is depressingly small.

>>7628143
you clearly don't understand what the prefix "auto" means

>>7614504
Yes I don't know enough about the proper "medical" use. When I had gender dysphoria, I just started smoking a bowl after work to zone out. Because I knew transition was a losing option for me. Eventually I became more comfortable with being male. I often just smoke a bowl near bedtime. I'd be scared to go completely clean now, I suspect the buildup of THC in my system has some sort of effect.

So AGP has real symptoms and varies from person to person, but the Blanchard version is pseudoscience? I can believe that. I really hope we see the day that the condition is more understood.

So it sounds like you can connect sexually with women, I've never had a proper sexual experience with a woman. Hopefully this wlll change. I'm an introverted tfw no gf type, although i'm too good for r9k. Yes I also have those AGP bisexual cravings despite not being attracted to men.

It's weirdly specific for me. I'm perfectly fine with being a guy, but if I could say, magically swap between sexes at will, I'd probably do it just out of curiousity or boredom sometimes.

Although, the main AGPish thing for me, is that I wish I could be turned into a teenage schoolgirl and be made to wear British style school uniforms smartly and everything, but other than that, I don't have any measure of AGP, it's quite bizarre.

>>7630237
I think you need to give us more details about your fantasy.

>>7630279
Out of curiousity or because you want to analyse it? :p

>>7630168
>don't answer the question
>throw a bogus objection
>don't explain
You must be from 4chan, am I right?

>>7630237
This is not unusual for a cis guy. Fetishes can get super specific. I think most cis guys who experience some form of AGP have very specific fetishes while most dysphorics are into the whole gamut.

>>7630294
But those are both the same thing!

But yes both, and also sexy.

>>7630352
Well, I think it's a clothing fetish crossed some measure of AGP. Essentially, the fantasy is that I'd be turned into a child (most often a girl though) around 12-16, have to go back to school. Big thing for me is being forced to wear the uniform smartly (so long sleeve white blouse with sleeves rolled down, tucked into a grey pleated skirt, top button of blouse done up, tie done up neatly, blazer etc). Like, I really the feel of the material on me, and I loved being told to correct my uniform and being forced to wear things at school. The whole girl part is that, I'd suddenly wake up as a girl, have to adjust to it, end up having sex as a girl and have the lingering uncertainty that I'd be stuck that way for good.

>>7630333
>>autogynephilia
>And what is the word for those who are into shemales rather than binary women?

>implying the word for those who are into binary women is "autogynephilia"

>>7630352
>I think most cis guys who experience some form of AGP have very specific fetishes while most dysphorics are into the whole gamut.
Interesting. For me it's got gradually less specific and now it's quite a mix.

>>7630405
The fact you're turning into a girl instead of just being one and the lingering uncertainty are AGP as a fetish, like in TFTG threads on /d/. AGP can be without the transformation part.

The focus on the clothing is hot. What would you get told to correct in your uniform and what would you be forced to wear?

Interesting that sometimes you are turned into a boy. The basic fantasy and clothing fetish both exist without the AGP.

>>7630488
Autogynephiles fancy themselves as binary females.
Where am I wrong in this?

>>7630591
Anon >>7630168 >>7630488 got confused and thought you were using AGP to mean attraction to women/gynephilia and wanted an equivalent word for attraction to shemales.

But you want a word for AGP-like wanting to be a shemale.

>>7630526


Regarding what I get told to correct, it'd be anything, tie could be loose, top button be undone, having my sleeves rolled up, and I'll be powerless when a teacher tells me to correct my uniform. I'd gradually, unconsciously become more feminine, I'd hate the whole thing and resist it, but the more I resist, the more female I'd become mentally. Ideally, I'd be in a boarding school so it would be reasonable for me to be wearing the uniform pretty much all the time, just not changing out of it after lessons.

What I'd be forced to wear is my school uniform like I mentioned before:

Long sleeve white blouse with cuffs done up, top button done up, tucked into skirt.

Tie tied tightly (or if I keep getting caught with top button undone, a clip on one so I can't undo it anymore).

High waisted, grey teflon coated pleated skirt.

Grey knee high socks

Black shoes

Sleeveless V neck jumper

Blazer

Very specific, but I also would like to be forced into other uniforms where women have to wear ties with top button done up, such as met police, or as an RAF cadet, etc.

When I fantasise about being turned into a younger boy, it's not too dissimilar, although the age range I imagine myself being would be 8-14, and I don't really fantasise about having sex while in the boy form, except maybe when I'm 14. But the uniform variant for boys would be similar to girl one, but replace the skirt with grey shorts.

Huge thing for me would be getting stuck in the form I got transformed into, and having to live as someone else, and get used to having sex as them etc.

>>7630661
Very hot. I like the hating being stuck but changing mentally anyway.

Would you have other uniforms at times, like for gym? What would you wear to bed at the boarding school?

Who would you have sex with as a girl?

>>7630733
Well, I guess I would have for gym, just skorts and a singlet, and at bed I would just wear panties and a bra.

I'd only have sex with guys, like, I'd have a ripped guy sort of have his way with me and sweep me off my feet there, not rapey, but I like to be powerless through the whole thing.

Here's the crazy thing though: I'm 100% gay, but the fantasy would be me being a straight person who becomes only attracted to men when I turn into a girl.

>>7630405
>>7630661
This sounds like a garden variety forced feminization fantasy, age regression aside.

>>7630763
That is really bizarre! There have been a few gay guys talk about AGP fantasies in /agpg/ before, but yours is just like a hetero cis fantasy. Maybe cis AGP as >>7630352 described it is shared by gay and het guys, distinct from trans/dysphoric AGP, which itself can be lesbian or straight.

The fantasy being a straight person guy who becomes a straight girl makes it even more identical to straight guy AGP/TFTG fetishes.

How can a fetish that involves gender so much be identical regardless of orientation?

Are you attracted to the girl you imagine being? Interesting if your AGP fantasy is an exception to being gay every other way. Do you have any other attraction to girls at all, outside this fantasy?

The clothing fetish part of the fantasy being for female clothing is interesting too. Clothing fetishes like that are just so straight.

In the boy version of the fantasy, if you did have sex, would it be with a girl or another boy? Would you have been a straight guy before the transformation too?

>>7630871
Forced fem is basically AGP without dysphoria. The age regression part is perfectly common for that kind of fantasy too, just like the clothing part.

>>7630871
Yup, pretty much what I thought it was.

>>7630879

I'm not attracted to the girl I imagine being at all, and I think the way it differs from clothing fetishes you are talking about, is that it's solely about what I'm wearing, not what someone else is.

And in the boy fantasy, yeah, it'd be with another guy, gay all the way through there.

>>7630912
>Yup, pretty much what I thought it was.
I didn't know you could get forced fem fantasies if you were gay. I thought you'd need to be attracted to girls, either as a straight guy or trans/AGP self attraction.

Part of forced fem is the giving up of your sexuality. That's kept in your fantasy, even though it means the you of the fantasy has to be a different orientation to you, and the forced orientation is the androphilia that is already your real orientation!

It's like the fetish has been pasted from a straight guy. Except for the next part.

>I'm not attracted to the girl I imagine being at all,
Then it's not AGP! Yet it's an identical fantasy to an AGP one.

Do you not focus on what she looks like and not care if he's hot? How much is being physically female, rather than just dressing in girl's clothes, an important part of the fantasy's hotness?

>and I think the way it differs from clothing fetishes you are talking about, is that it's solely about what I'm wearing, not what someone else is.
I don't think that's uncommon for clothing fetishes. It's certainly normal for clothing elements in AGP fantasies.

>And in the boy fantasy, yeah, it'd be with another guy, gay all the way through there.
Would you be gay before the transformation too, meaning the boy fantasy loses the orientation change part?

>>7630988
I think the whole AGP thing being based on becoming the object of your sexual desire isn't always the case.

Remember, forced fem doesn't have to be giving up sexuality, it can be giving up masculinity, power, gender as well etc.

And I'd be gay before the transformation too.

>>7631077
>I think the whole AGP thing being based on becoming the object of your sexual desire isn't always the case.
What is it based on in your case? If it's derived from the clothing fetish, then I'd wouldn't count it as AGP. Forced fem yes, but not AGP unless being female is in some way arousing in itself.

But I'd like to hear your thoughts on it and any other details.

>Remember, forced fem doesn't have to be giving up sexuality, it can be giving up masculinity, power, gender as well etc.
Yes, true, forced fem appeals to lots of different desires. But it's odd that the giving up sexuality is there for you, even though it's not needed for attraction to men in your case and even though it means fantasy you pre-transformation has to be a different orientation.

What are good hrt dosages for agp?

>>7631122
Getting an understanding boyfriend.

>>7631118
It's derived from the clothing fetish, but the idea of a guy dressing as a schoolgirl doesn't turn me on, it's literally being a biological girl that is forced to wear a school uniform that arouses me. Being drugged and having full, and convincing SRS surgery that I find out when I wake up will do it too though.

>>7630626
Thank you, anon, for untangling it for everyone.

Food for thought: AGP isn't contradictory to GP (gynephilia, "attraction to females"). In fact, AGP couldn't exist without GP and is a logical continuation of GP. It takes either a closed mind or masochism to be GP and not AGP. This is why I'm convinced that conservative sexuality is inherently repressive, stunted, rape-based and sadomasochistic.

t. author of question

>>7631266
>It's derived from the clothing fetish, but the idea of a guy dressing as a schoolgirl doesn't turn me on, it's literally being a biological girl that is forced to wear a school uniform that arouses me.
But the key thing is, in that being a girl forced to wear a school uniform, what is the difference between the part about being a girl, and the part about the uniform?

Because one part of the fantasy could be necessary for the fantasy to work but still not be the focus on the fetish. So even though being a girl is an essential part, not being aroused by that in itself, but rather by the clothing and force, is a difference from AGP as normally described.

It is borderline though, because there is a transvestic side to AGP. Perhaps if anything this just shows that no fetishes can be perfectly sorted into neat, distinct, categories. Clothing fantasies can probably be derived from AGP too, in a reverse of your situation.

Where does the forced part of the fantasy come from? Same for the orientation twist? The clothing part means being a girl has to be there for it not to be a crossdressing fantasy, but those two parts don't seem essential.

>Being drugged and having full, and convincing SRS surgery that I find out when I wake up will do it too though.
Who would have done it to you? In the previous fantasy, would there be a cause for the transformation or would it be unexplained?

>>7631282
>AGP isn't contradictory to GP
Definitely true.

>In fact, AGP couldn't exist without GP and is a logical continuation of GP.
Technically true, but I don't think you have to be attracted to other females. Really we should rename gynephilia (as expressed by straight guys, lesbians and bisexuals) "attraction to other females" or "other-gynephilia". So AGP and attraction to other females are both forms of GP but needn't both be exhibited.

Assuming you meant this "OGP", then why is AGP a logical continuation of it? OGP and AGP are each independent forms of GP.

>It takes either a closed mind or masochism to be GP and not AGP.
But then bisexuals should be both AGP and AAP, yet they have only one body which needs to be both sexes.

Plenty of AGPs are masochistic.

>This is why I'm convinced that conservative sexuality is inherently repressive, stunted, rape-based and sadomasochistic.
Why do you say each of those? At attraction to something without a desire to embody it oneself isn't inherently rape-based.

>>7631404
I think having the higher voice, weaker body, softer features female genitals and breasts would be a big part of it. But it would have to be with the uniform. The girl uniform side wouldn't happen with the girl body side, and the girl body side wouldn't happen without the uniform bit.

I think the forced part is all part of submission, along with becoming a boy or a school girl: I am helpless. Not sure about orientation thing. At school, I hated being told how to wear uniform and stuff, but I secretly loved being bossed around like that. I still love it when someone says "good boy" or "good girl" during sex with me.

And regarding who instigates the transformation, that doesn't really matter to me, what matters is the transformation, the shock, realising I have to go to school, wearing the uniform, then having (consensual, rapey stuff is a huge turn off for me) sex after/during school or something with someone a bit older (generally 16-25, depending on the age that I would be in the fantasy), for what it's worth, I'm 24 myself (although I look 19/20 and have baby face thankfully).

>>7631686
>I think having the higher voice, weaker body, softer features female genitals and breasts would be a big part of it.
Now that's AGP. But it still seems weird for that to be arousing without being attractive. Can you describe the appeal?

>But it would have to be with the uniform. The girl uniform side wouldn't happen with the girl body side, and the girl body side wouldn't happen without the uniform bit.
This fits the fetish/cis AGP >>7630352 describes.

>Not sure about orientation thing.
I guess part of the helplessness and submission too.

>I still love it when someone says "good boy" or "good girl" during sex with me.
Loving being called "good girl" during sex sounds like more AGP or similar parts to your sexuality.

>consensual, rapey stuff is a huge turn off for me
Why is that?

Did you used to think you liked girls, or did you know you were gay as long as you had sexual thoughts? Did school uniforms appeal to you like this when you were at school?

>>7631754

Regarding the voice, I think having a higher voice is probably one of the strongest signifiers of being a boy/female that exist. Your voice is personal, and for it to change like that ties in with the identity loss thing.

I went to an all boys school, and I actually didn't really think about sex. I didn't know I was gay til later, so I think I projected the sexuality onto wearing the uniform itself, because I'm assuming I had these feelings developing at school but not knowing they were sexual.

And with not liking rapey stuff, it's the way I've been brought up. I find rape absolutely abhorrent, unacceptable and having no blurred lines. I wouldn't mind being "raped" if it was something I preplanned, but just depictions of non-consensual sex just turn me right off.

>>7631479
>"other-gynephilia" (OGP)
Proposal: '''allogynephilia.'''

>>7631788
What about the female genitals and breasts? There's an appeal to having them, in this situation with the uniform, yet you don't find them attractive?

>I didn't know I was gay til later, so I think I projected the sexuality onto wearing the uniform itself, because I'm assuming I had these feelings developing at school but not knowing they were sexual.
That's very interesting.

I assumed you'd seen girls in their uniforms too to develop a fetish like this for them, but it sounds like the fetish developed for the boys uniforms first and but also works for girls.

y'all are either fuckin' repressed trannies or transvestites. AGP isn't real.

I've slowly been able to come to terms with my AGP as a symptom of a larger issue, which I believe is a false impression about myself in relation to the world: I've long believed that I'm inferior to most people. And this deep sense of insecurity has forced me to find a way to find relief.

I think if I didn't find this fetish, I would have found some other relief via drugs or even suicide.

I don't know if I'll get over AGP completely, but I think reframing situations so that I see myself as an equal to others will help me immensely.

Hopefully someone else here finds value in my little self-discovery.

>>7631888
I don't find women attractive. I think it's more of an identity change thing here: I am literally taking on the guise of a cishet girl.

I think it's because deep down I associate women with being more inherently submissive, and it comes off as a submission thing in this case.

I think what actually developed the whole AGP thing for me was two things:

The first was when I was talking with some friends when I was 14, where the discussion was about "what would you do if you were a girl for a day?".

Friend said "I'll try and get as much cock as I can."

And also, I think it's because when I was reading AR fiction, there isn't much AR male fiction where they wear school uniforms, it's mostly just infantilist stuff, but there's plenty for TG/AR fiction with wearing uniforms, so I ended up just reading loads of TG/AR stories for the uniform thing.

>>7631827
Perfect etymology, but having the same acronym is unfortunate.

>>7631918
>I don't find women attractive. I think it's more of an identity change thing here: I am literally taking on the guise of a cishet girl.
I can't get the appeal, because for me identity change like that is really hot but only because of the AGP attraction to being female. I wouldn't like it if it was a change into someone I didn't want to be.

>I think it's because deep down I associate women with being more inherently submissive, and it comes off as a submission thing in this case.
I think that's at least partly why I'm AGP, but my AGP is tied to all submission, not just one fantasy.

How did the fantasy develop from that point at 14 when you got the idea about being a girl for the day?

>so I ended up just reading loads of TG/AR stories for the uniform thing.
Funny, I like AR and uniforms as part of my AGP, and you like TG as part of AR/uniforms.

>>7632018
I think the fantasy developed when my friend talked about using that to get cock: I'm gay so I think it appealed to me deep down lol.

And yeah, I like uniforms, I'm wearing my school uniform now actually lel

>>7632040
>I'm wearing my school uniform now actually lel
Hah, that's dedication! I'm not even crossdressing right now!

>>7632062
I don't actually have a girl school uniform though, I need to get one, I'm worried I'll look a bit honnish though, I'm somewhere between twink and twunk

File: @cynthiarc212_fitnessplus #Cynthiapuede.jpg (176KB, 1080x1349px)

176KB, 1080x1349px

>>7631479
>Why is AGP a logical continuation of other-gynephilia? OGP and AGP are each independent forms of GP.
To me, this is like to say that TO LIKE MONEY and TO WANT TO BE RICH are unrelated things... an insane distinction. It's good to HAVE a rich uncle, but it's much better to BE a rich uncle.

Additionally, the line between autogynephilia and allogynephilia is exactly as "real", "significant" and "objective" as the line between "self-love" and "love", or between "me" and "someone"... not significant and objective at all.

It's only natural to want to be something that you consider valuable and attractive. Wanting to be something worthless is insanity. To me, your attempt to separate JUDGEMENT from a DESIRE TO WIN JUDGEMENT is an assault on logic.

>Attraction to something without a desire to embody it oneself isn't inherently rape-based.
But it is. "Having" something should be a step towards "being" it... not a replacement for it. Example: we shouldn't need to wear animal furs to protect us from environment – our bodies should grow our own if there be a need. It is human imperfection that we don't. Having something while not being it means an exploitative relationship, one of control and oppression. Hence allogynephilia which fails to evolve into autogynephilia is sadomasochism and a mass mental disorder, tantamount to wanting to be worthless. What kind of person wants to see an ugly and repulsive individual in the mirror? (Apparently most men and most women in the world, duh... despite the rampant selfie culture.)

>What about bisexuals?
Good question. I think it's the same as with choosing a meal when you can only eat one dish at a time: your choice must be more or less random. No contradiction here.

>>7632075
Just avoid mirrors and let your mind fill in! Besides, you said it's not about being an attractive girl!

Would you get underwear too? I noticed panties and bra were missing from your uniform description, which was perhaps a clue to the fetish being slightly different to the straight version.

File: 14359367_339733549696428_1797195391_n.jpg (56KB, 750x750px)

56KB, 750x750px

>>7631479
Or a short answer:

I can't conceive love without self-love (philia without autophilia).

>>7632120
>To me, this is like to say that TO LIKE MONEY and TO WANT TO BE RICH are unrelated things... an insane distinction.
But being rich means having money.

>Additionally, the line between autogynephilia and allogynephilia is exactly as "real", "significant" and "objective" as the line between "self-love" and "love", or between "me" and "someone"... not significant and objective at all.
No, it's the distinction between "self-love" and "love for others", "me" and "someone else".

>To me, your attempt to separate JUDGEMENT from a DESIRE TO WIN JUDGEMENT is an assault on logic.
But each can be good in their own way. An autogynephile alloandrophile doesn't have to see male or female as worthless, just one which they wish to experience themselves and the other which they wish to experience from a partner.

>"Having" something should be a step towards "being" it... not a replacement for it.
Love for oneself and love for one's partner are different things. What makes someone a good partner or friend isn't necessarily the same qualities I am myself. My love for them isn't a desire for them to be me.

>Having something while not being it means an exploitative relationship, one of control and oppression.
A relationship between an autogynephile alloandrophile and an autoandrophile allogynephile are therefore mutually exploiting, controlling and oppressing each other?

>I think it's the same as with choosing a meal when you can only eat one dish at a time: your choice must be more or less random.
But that puts all self-loving bisexuals in the unenviable position of never experiencing all of what they want from themselves.

If the couple above correctly evolved their autophilias into allophilias, making them both bi, then their relationship would change from one in which they both experience from themselves and each other the bodies they enjoy to one where they forever envy the other's body.

>>7631936
Alternative: heterogynephilia (HGP). Weakness: modern reader will mistake it for "heterosexual gynephilia".

>>7632347
It would be nice to not have overlapping terms in our Greek/Latin.
>homo/hetero
>trans/cis
>auto/???

I suppose hetero and homo work with the same initial letter, but we don't refer to one of them through initials as we do for AGP and AAP.

>>7632375
Practical (if flimsy) workaround:
AGP = autogynephilia
aGP = allogynephilia

>>7632470
and if i normally type lowercase, i can just switch it around: agp and Agp!

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>>7632346
>Being rich means having money.
Interesting challenge. Still preferable to having a rich uncle. How about BEING MONEY? :)))

In the same way:
>Being a woman means having femininity.
>Being warm means having warmth.
So a false problem really.

Postulates to consider:
>Having money is preferable to having someone who has money.
>Having femininity is preferable to having a woman (someone who has femininity).
>Having warmth is preferable to having someone who has warmth.
>Having (...) is preferable to having someone who has (...).

Abstract kind of questions:
>Is being money preferable to being rich?
>Is being the femininity preferable to being a woman?
>Is being the warmth preferable to being warm?

>>7632346
>massive apology of double standard, egocentrism and subjective distinctions
Vile.

>A relationship between an autogynephile alloandrophile and an autoandrophile allogynephile are therefore mutually exploiting, controlling and oppressing each other?
Yes. You've just described the essence of traditional heterosexual relationship. In conventional sexuality, men and women weaponise each other's lacks and wants. A sad excuse for "love".

Supplementary reading (Erich Fromm):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Loving

>But that puts all self-loving bisexuals in the unenviable position of never experiencing all of what they want from themselves.
Fact. The price of lack of focus.

>If the couple above correctly evolved their autophilias into allophilias, making them both bi, then their relationship would change from one in which they both experience from themselves and each other the bodies they enjoy to one where they forever envy the other's body.
Nothing wrong with it. Envy is healthy if it inspires you to become better (constructive envy) rather than destroy those who are better than you (destructive envy).

>>7627568
>Most men are not autogynephilic in any sense at all.
Then explain why crossdressing is such a common sexual experience but not sexual at all for girls?

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>>7632829
AGP is just the re-insertion into the narrative that men don't want to perform as masc all the time they want to feel QT and in a relaxed environment.
The next 10 years is gonna be comfy because the advantages to being masc are virtually none anymore, other than being /aesthetic/ for grills. By 2027 no one will care about this shit.

>>7633629
>bombs drop
>within a few years, trannies, fag, and others die out
>men are needed, valued, to rebuild
>women are needed to procreate, lesbians are beaten if they resist, raped
>pretty much start over, sake of humanity, fuck feminism, fuck equal rights

>>7633741
Even if your bomb drop fantasy did happen, that wouldn't be the result.

>>7632829

>Then explain why crossdressing is such a common sexual experience

It is NOT common. Jeez. Sure,men fetishize "girl clothes", but a crossdressing fetish is not common. What kind of bizarro world do you live in?

Even then, how many of them simulate being straight girls, like I do when I am wearing girl clothes?

if I have a Boyfriend who likes to sissy me up and make me Dress up and fuck me while I wear girls clothes

I can leave now and not take hormones right?. My agp has been satisfied

>>7634604
If you don't experience dysphoria then why not? Just being into this does not mean you're trans.
If you're still dysphoric.. well..

>>7634609
>if you're still dysphoric.. well..

Only sometimes.

>>7634613
Then I think you know the answer.

>>7634645
Goddamit

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I have a cure

>>7634604
congrats, you win

>>7634704
Is it over?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04lxs78


Perfect AGP life. Fucking main character is too stupid to realise how lucky he is

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Someone pls explain how AGP isn't sexist af.

It's basically the product of a male psychologist trying to explain why anyone would want to be a woman. Unable to come up with a reason, he said that it must be a sexual fetish, because there is nothing rewarding about being a woman other than sexual things, obviously. AGP theory says more about Blanchard's dismissive feelings towards women than anything about trans women.

This seems to be a common thing among men. Most women I know seem to understand my motivations to some degree, even if they don't truly know what its like. Men pretty universally seem to think its just a fetish. Even my Dad felt compelled to share the fact that he used to crossdress, and was clearly trying to equate my trans feelings with him jerking off in panties. Grossed me out desu. Men have no right to comment on anything pertaining to women when they all see women as living sex dolls.

>>7634728
I'm not one to defend Blanchard but see this exchange.
>>7621788
>>7621924

>>7634728
you're forgetting that wives, and mothers do play an important role in men/boy's lives

>>7634749
What does that have to do with anything?

>>7627040
yeah but simply reciting a few arguments in favour of one sex does not automatically make you want to be a part of them.
Just like if you were into track racing and know that people of sub saharan origin are most successful at it. Does that make you automatically want to be them? Maybe for a short while but inherently you just want to be who you are.

>>7634706
>Unconditional
>A loan shark, Liam, calls on his customers: a disabled mother and two 17 year olds, Kristen and Owen.
>Kristen flirts with him, but Liam's passion is for naive Owen. Owen goes along with the shark's gender-bending fetish, creating a conflict with his coming-of-age.

does hrt make you sensitive to the smell of your own crotch?

>>7634570
>It is NOT common. Jeez.
Yes it is. Not as a lifelong fetish, but most boys have tried on panties at some time or another and got a sexual thrill from it.

>>7635928

You do realize AGP is far stronger and long-lasting than just wearing panties once when you were 13?

>>7635981
Obviously they aren't AGP like we are, but that arousal is autogynephilic.

>>7635814
Noticed this

File: Catherine_Zeta-Jones_Feb05.jpg (240KB, 1080x1364px) Image search: [Google]

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Don't be beta.
BE ZETA.

>>7635814
>>7638502
Woah really? I thought it was just getting stinky from the foreskin restoration

stinking forescum

>>7638746
>supporting involuntary genital modification that damages neovagina success rates

>>7638976
You took my meaningless wordplay personally.

I want to taste your foreskin.
Would you let me lick it?

>>7639162
>Would you let me lick it?
that's degrading, performing oral is for girls.

>>7639204
So would you prefer to lick my foreskin?

>>7639222
yes.

>>7639230
How would you handle my cum?

>>7639346
swallow of course. it's only respectful.

>>7634728
you sound like a crybaby

>>7639480
Good girl. Though I would like some cum play before you consume all.

>>7639900
just direct my head with your hand in my hair and tell me what to do, sir.

>>7639976
It's a pity I can't meet you for real.
I think it would be nice to share a flat with you.
Do you live alone?

>>7640440
yes. but i'm not a real girl anyway ;_;

Can you please not do the sexual roleplay thing here?

>>7630227
Yes, Blanchard is just pseudoscience because it's not really based on any objective evidence. The follow up studies are no better because they too are based around questionaires and subjective interpretations.

You don't want to smoke cannabis. If you really need it as a medicine you should invest in a good vaporizer and learn how to make infusion into fats (cannaoils and butters) so you can cook with it. You won't ever come back to smoking if you cook a nice meal or hit a good vaporizer. The effects are much stronger and cleaner, and can be considered healthy (not daily intake mind you).

You may even think about growing yourself, however if that's the case I advise a few things: Never tell anyone, keep it simple and small (600W max), never buy any cheap component, and try to mix your own soil using just water for the entire grow. Growing yourself has advantages not only in knowing which strain you actually have and what the plant has eaten, but also in giving you an interesting hobby that can help you grow as a person and give you patience. Everyone has a bit of cultivation interest in themselves.

You may want to try various (sativa dominant or hybrid) strains when you exercise (if you are not exercising regularly you have to start asap, no excuses), that strengthens your male focus and energy and you'll perhaps enjoy being a man more. You should also try various CBD strains both during exercises and otherwise as a general medication.

Most problems with girls are because of the often ignored basic five: Haircut, teeth, clothes, cardio, hygiene. Missing even one of these basics is basically playing the game on a hard mode. Bonus (not needed) points are for charm, height and wealth.

Maybe you'll find out you want to invest romantically into girls and being high and jacking off to your agp will be enough. Or maybe you'll want to pursue a gay relationship. Either way I wish you good luck anon. May you find your ultimate satisfaction in life.

>>7644047
Cannabis should be available medically for a diagnosis of AGP.

>>7644094
Wrong. Cannabis should be completely legal.

>>7644101
Yes but healthcare should pay for it is you're AGP.

>>7644094
>>7644109
Spoiler: they already pay for HRT

>>7644109
>>7644160
That depends on your definition of healthcare. I disagree with anything that is regulated by government because if anything is regulated, guaranteed or free, you actually pay more for it, it just isn't that obvious. A guaranteed healthcare every citizen must be a part of is just a scam.

>>7644160
>turning you into a fake girl rather than treating the dysphoria

>>7644179
Healthcare as in what health insurance covers.

>>7644236
If every working citizen must be a part of this health insurance system then I disagree. You would just give everyone a lifetime free cannabis, yet the delightful economic irony is that this free cannabis would cost everyone much more, even the users who have agp and are supposedly on it for free.

Cannabis is very cheap if you are allowed to grow it yourself or even purchase it legally, much cheaper than insurance cannabis. This is the case of most government related things for free by the way.

>>7644337
>If every working citizen must be a part of this health insurance system then I disagree.
The point of insurance is that you can shop around and choose which policies to buy, if any.

>You would just give everyone a lifetime free cannabis
But everyone doesn't have AGP? I'm talking about it as a medical treatment for people with conditions that benefit from it.

>or even purchase it legally, much cheaper than insurance cannabis.
Except an insurance payout might simply be the money to purchase it.

>This is the case of most government related things for free by the way.
The private sector can offer insurance.

>>7644179
>cucks actually believe this
ohhhh boy

>>7644407
>wants big govt throwing his money at special interest groups and politicians' relatives
>calls anybody else a cuck

>>7644454
>wants his ass reamed by corporations and his medicine laced with lead
>not a cuck

>>7644467
>thinks biog govt doesn't ream his ass
>thinks big govt's magic wand makes medicines safe
learn to spot an abusive relationship. this is stockholm's syndrome.

>>7644397
Not every country in the world has options when it comes to insurance. Also I know cases of people using the system to get cannabis for free in countries where such policies are established. You can pretend you have anorexia or similar mental diseases for free cannabis, or even straight up ask a psychiatrist for a prescription. I agree with you however.

>>7644407
I am interested in a good argument. I can use same senseless buzzwords as you and say you are a paid shill and shekels have been deposited to your jewish bank account, but that doesn't get us anywhere.

>>7644467
>his
under statism you could be arrested for misgendering.

>>7644500
>>7644501
leaving people uninsured costs everyone more because they still get treatment anyway, just after needing to jump through more hoops, waste more doctor/nurse time, and by letting conditions become worse and more expensive to treat, while providing worse outcomes. this is shown in any first world country compared to the US. a circlejerk of different insurance companies adds tons of unnecessary waste while the incentive of providing as little actual care to patients as possible

>>7644560
>replies to completely different posts with a single block of text
off to a good start!

>>7644577
not an argument

>>7644560
>leaving people uninsured costs everyone more
surely that can be stopped?!

>because they still get treatment anyway,
there we go.

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>>7644595
>fuck you I got mine
typical libertardian sociopath, unironically defending shitty systems because fuck the lazy poors and praise our corporate massahs

wewewewewewew

>>7644640
>>fuck you I got mine
>implying that's true

>>7644640
The only reason why you see corporations as enemies is because the government has so much power the companies can buy government influence so the corporations have to buy it to stay competitive. Fuck the lazy poors is actually government talk and not a reason to hate corporations. I am not even libertarian and I think libertarians are idiots. It's sad how much brainwashed you are by the government that you actually believe more government is the solution when in fact more government always consistently brought up more problems in the past.

>>7644640
Typical commie, demanding other people's money because fuck working, society owes me everything I want!

>>7644236
Transitioning treats dysphoria Anon.

>>7644706
that's exactly what was supposed at >>7644595

>>7644707
>private entities have consistently been shown throughout history to grow and collude to increase their own gain at the expense of everyone else. >lul how brainwashed it's Gubbermint's fault!!

>>7644715
let's suppose then that a person will be denied treatment without insurance or proven ability to pay. how would this system work?

in reality this conversation should not be occurring in agpg, so we should wrap it up soon

>>7644738
no, being a cis girl treats dysphoria.

>>7644775
THIS

>>7644738
not this

>>7641248
You are better than a real girl... you are a girl with a penis! You're elite!

>>7644751
Private sector gains only by offering a good product. If you offer a bad product you lose your customers. Only in regulated economy the market is not free and this is not possible because of payouts and safe bets guaranteed by government.

A homeless person is denied treatment. I remember a case of a woman working all her life and then denied a treatment because the mandatory government insurance doesn't cover new experimental treatments even if they are cheaper and are proven to work. I still have to pay my dentist even though I have to pay a hefty (more than 20%) sum of my income to the Ponzi scheme and I can't opt out of it. It's actually illegal for me to not pay and decide what I want myself.

>>7644834

Only if she looks like a girl.

>>7644775
>>7644806
Transitioning has factually helped people get over their dysphoria. You can't deny this.

>>7644898
Her sincere intent to be a girl and to look like a girl is all that she needs to turn me on.

>>7644845
>If you offer a bad product you lose your customers

not in a monopoly.
and who shops for medical care when they're sick?

>>7644982
Tell that to the people who found religions.

>>7644919
Not without transitioning though.

It's like feeding the hungry, it helps with the hunger but it doesn't cure it. People, instead, should be given hunger suppressants.

>>7644919
people who pass as cis and are also not crippled by dysphoria

>>7644845
>Private sector gains only by offering a good product. If you offer a bad product you lose your customers.
Wrong. Particularly for inelastic goods that you cannot shop for (including healthcare).
>A homeless person is denied treatment.
What if the homeless person has money?
How do you determine who is homeless and thus does not deserve treatment, when deciding whether or not to give treatment?

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>>7644898
She can always wear a mask if she has bad face on a good body.

if i will take hormones will i have done with agp then drop hrt and get agp again?
can that cycle lasts forever?

>>7646494
it could yeah
in my case the agp stayed but just became less of a compulsion

>>7612857
>Describe the girl you would like to be, describe her life and her partner and relationship.
Average height for a girl, short compared to me. She probably would do all the stuff I do, including being forever alone.

>>7645435
>Particularly for inelastic goods that you cannot shop for (including healthcare).
You're right that the Free market doesn't really apply to medicine. But he's right about how bad the system is now. The best answer to the question of health care is Nationalization, not what we have now.

>>7612857
>Am I AGP?
>be me, at 12
>fantasize about becoming a woman
>not really a sexual fantasy in any meaningful way, too young to fap
>steal clothes from family members, dress up
>Became kind of sexualized after I hit puberty
>Be me, 18
>Have own underwear (can't have more clothes than that because of circumstances
>wear pretty much whenever I'm not in public. ( Paranoid about people knowing)
>pretty much always wear panties when I fap
>but fantasize about gay stuff while doing it (sucking dick, ext)


Am I agp?

>>7646889
well that's exactly what i'm arguing

>>7646907
>Gay stuff
Do you envision yourself as a woman in those fantasies?

>>7646889
>You're right that the Free market doesn't really apply to medicine.
Why not? Insurance is statistically profitable. You need state only to protect from insurance fraud. Free market always provides cheaper services with higher quality because profit determines the success. If you guarantee a service there is no incentive to be better and people won't care because they don't have to, yet they are very suprised when they are met with the reality of a social healthcare. I worked in the diagnostic field of neurology and it's a disaster.

I can't start up a nonprofit healthcare because the government has complete control and demands mandatory insurance you can't opt out of. In a free market I could. State insurance is a scam that costs you much more in the end and doesn't guarantee what you really need. It's not a program tailored to your needs and you still have to pay from your pocket up to what you are already paying in taxes. Remember that being equal with everyone isn't the same as being free.

Also remember that medicine is created by private companies and since people don't have to even care and since the government has so much power it is required to pay the government lobbies to push new medicine that is often just one enantiomer sold for a higher price because of regulations. Regulations also insanely up the costs of medicine research which is then projected on to the customer. And since state controls every substance you can't prescribe proven and undisputed medicine because these private companies can pay lobbies to make them illegal, since government has so much power. For example you can't treat PTSD with MDMA even if a research proves it works much better than existing medicine, it's insanely hard to even start a research if not outright impossible.

Nationalization is just another name for a self interest group using government power to push paid for lobbies and let the state decide everything for you.

>>7646883
But how can you be forever alone if you're a girl?

>>7644919
crossdressing and gay relationships have helped people get over their dysphoria. you can't deny this.

it's still not being cis.

also this >>7645414

Ok guys, so two days ago I dressed up in public as a girl for the first time and I came out as gender non-conforming to my friends. Honestly, my AGP has already weakened since then. Don't get me wrong, I felt some arousal when I did it, but I haven't masturbated to any AGP thoughts since I did it, which is progress for me. I was at a point last month when I was masturbating to AGP fantasies about 4 to 8 times a day and I felt awful. Before, I would have AGP thoughts in my head constantly even in class, but now they are much less intrusive than they used to be and I'm more at ease. I decided that in order to deal with it, I should at least try a more gender non-conforming lifestyle by dressing up occasionally and it definitely helps. I felt really good, and my urge to masturbate is not as strong as it used to be. I'm still unsure at this point about whether or not I want to fully transition, but I think dressing in public occasionally helps, and I just thought I should I recommend it because I think it might help some of you.

>>7647631
Have you masturbated without AGP thoughts? I never have. Even if I masturbate less, when I do it's still AGP.

>>7647643
Sometimes I can masturbate to non-AGP thoughts, but most of the time its just AGP.

>>7647631
Glad to hear things are better for you now. Good luck!

>be a child
>act girly
>look gay
>get bullied
>become insecure
>act masculine
>become miserable
>still look gay
>social withdrawal
>not even gay
>fap for relief
>porn escalation
>become pseudogay
>discover nofap
>quit porn
>still pseudogay
>feel girly
>discover agp
>become gayer
>go through cycles of obsession with and repression of gender dysphoria
>drug escapism for relief
>drugs stop working
>reach a fork in the road
>transition/go gay or suicide
>still cant choose
>life on standby

Everyone said it would come to this but I thought I was different

>>7648527
Suicide looking good desu

>>7648548
I'm sure there's another option. I just have to look harder

i am so tired of this fkn overpowered libido and wish to be fkd every fkn five hours when i dont sleep.
can AA stop this curse? i only want my libido become weaker. %%and if fantasies about me as young woman will not end then... answer is obvious, i think%%

>>7648866
Lower testosterone will reduce libido, though it won't go away entirely. You will still be AGP and have those thoughts/feelings of course.

>>7646998
>Free market always provides cheaper services with higher quality because profit determines the success.
not in basically any market that exists

>I worked in the diagnostic field of neurology and it's a disaster.

>State insurance is a scam that costs you much more in the end and doesn't guarantee what you really need.
wrong. nationalized healthcare provides better care for less money
http://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunro/2014/06/16/u-s-healthcare-ranked-dead-last-compared-to-10-other-countries/

>For example you can't treat PTSD with MDMA even if a research proves it works much better than existing medicine, it's insanely hard to even start a research if not outright impossible.
well then we can agree on drug prohibition being absolutely retarded (prohibition =/= regulation

>>7648658
Thank you anon. I loved the Narnia joke.

Gender dysphoria really sucks. It beckons us to change something that's impossible to change. Maybe being a massive faggot will suffice.

Oh shiiiiiii
http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ph57dfb0bcc7028&utm_source=PBWeb&utm_medium=PT&utm_campaign=PBWeb

>>7651213
That's kinda neat lol

>>7648658
Blue board.

>>7649226
>No one has ever transitioned and lived more or less as a woman.

>>7651678
are you trying to imply that's a counter to >>7649226
?

>>7649004
But the US healthcare system is not really a free market but a bubble going in hand with the ill economy.

Regulations create prohibitions. MDMA is banned because the regulations a corporation has to fulfil create opportunities of profit on the alternatives and the power of the lobbies has to be used to push away your competition.

>>7651678
"more or less"

Right, and I've been more or less a cop...but, I've never been a hired police officer, BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER!!!
IM A COP!!!
SHITLORD.

>>7651889
How is that even a comparable situation? A trans person can look like a cis girl and be treated as a cis girl in every real life situation, chromosomes and childbirth are sticklers but so what. Life is more complicated than you think.

>>7651901
fuck off normie

>>7651901
Stop not using memes!!! REEE

>>7651901
This.

>>7651889
>>7651989
You're being needlessly negative.

>>7646398
>tfw this is my fetish

>>7652641
I thought your fetish was being a grill?

how do you cope with your AGP?

at the moment I'm training myself to come while using only normal sex images and myself as a dude. it seems to work but takes longer and orgasm is weaker.

>>7653140
Tell me if this works. I hope it does but my gut says no since gay folks can't repress the gay away.

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hey chicks is this ok to take AA without estrogene to reduce libido? could i get osteoporosis?

>>7653197
everyone is different and can have pulsions of varying intensities. those who can escape it probably never talk out about it.

it's also possible that saying they can do nothing about it is a way to avoid responsibility, and indulging guilt-free.

I'm not trying to repress away anything, that would not be sustainable long term, but working a different path to orgasm, that would allow me to save a lot of time, money and social capital, and most importantly reproduce

>>7653197
thoughts that help me come while thinking of myself as a man :

- she's a little slut, a whore, that wants to be fucked, she wants my penis inside her
- I'm defiling her, with my big hairy arms and legs dominating her, she is submitting and giving in

at this stage I'm experimenting, I just think maybe I can find a psychological solution to a psychological problem

Do you believe in trutrans? Are all 'trutrans' MtF's actually AGP in denial or just very effeminate gays?

>>7653140
>>7653246
>>7653258
Good luck. For me though, I don't want to make it go away. I want to indulge it as much as I can and ideally one day be female.

>>7653273
There's no trutrans, just a spectrum from cis to maximum dysphoria and AGPs can be anywhere along it.

I'm not sure I'm agp, am I agp?

>>7652920
being a girl is a just a path that helps me accomplish a bigger fetish
how fucked up is that

every time i see harsh words about agp, hrt for agp and their life, my heart eaches very much
i really fear that im not 'true girl' and as a result of hrt ive got regrets and giggles from others
i want to fade away

>>7653502
how can that be?!

>>7653511
none of us are true girls, agp or not, trutrans or not.

>>7653235
Try the trans help thread. Most of the folks here leave once they stop repressing and/or questioning. This is Bitterness Central.

>>7653273
>>7653325
Blanchard's typology has no basis in reality and the trutrans thing is just another broken variation of it. With that said I think that there are definitely people who get turned on by AGP-like thoughts and are not actually trans but still question whether they are trans or not. On the other hand you have a lot of repressed transsexuals who experience AGP-like arousal and think this means they can't possibly be trans. You have to confront yourself honestly and figure out who you are.

>>7653527
im afraid of hrt and possible regrets
but ifeel i have no other choices cause my age. it could be too late soon. and there could be another regrets if i will did nothing with this state and will became boring masculine straight man, that thoughts is scarrying me

>>7653258
I'm certainly not against you trying to help yourself, nor against you experimenting, but I question the effectiveness of that particular method.

I don't think trying to play up your own manliness is going to fix the core of the problem, when what you want (or "want", perhaps) is to be more feminine. Your craving isn't addressed at all by that, and in fact may be aggravated more strongly because you're focusing on how you're different from your fetishistic ideal. In other words, your problem isn't that you are female (which emphasising your masculinity would help with, to reinforce the reality of the situation), but that you want to be female (which emphasisisng your masculinity/lack of femininity could just make you want even more).

Also, I can see right away how you'd be projecting yourself onto the girl in the scenario you've described. You're talking about her like a lot of AGPs talk about themselves when they're indulging.

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>>7653511
Sorry to hear that. Be well.

Keeping the existence of intersexed folks in mind, what do you think it means to be a man or a woman? A "man" born with Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome has a largely female body and most live their lives as women. Since no one can tell them apart from cis women in day to day life society treats them like women. By just interacting with them as anyone but a lover or a doctor you'd never be able to tell that they are XY, not XX. This is what people mean when they say gender is a social construct - it is how you relate to society based on how society percieves you, not your precise biological makeup. You desire to live as a woman and experience gender dysphoria, do you not? That's all it takes to be trans. How could you suffer as you do and be fake? You are real because your desire is real. You might not be an XX, but neither are these women.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_androgen_insensitivity_syndrome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics)

>>7653325
at least you know what you want, and you are consistent about it.

AGP pulsions are strongest in me during masturbation / right before coming, and in that moment I'm really aroused at the idea of feminizing myself. But, right after I come, all of a sudden crossdressing seems meaningless, and all this seems crazy. that's how I know I'm not "a woman trapped inside a man's body". that's how I know this is just a sexual fetish, and I dont feel like all my life should revolve around a fetish

>>7653658
Or you're just disgusted with yourself and go into purge mode.

>>7653570
I was just trying to masturbate with one rule, that I can't use any image or idea of me being feminized, and I'm practicing normal sex with a woman.

So I tried different ideas, and after a while I came up with that.

>>7653627
thanks. so i can try hrt without taking care of 'tru-trans' snide opinions?

>>7653676
I'm not even disgusted with myself. I'm short and have soft features so I think I'd be ok as girl. When I throw away clothes it's because I'm scared I'll be found out.

My problem is that there is a gap, a contradiction even, between what arouses me, ie being feminine, and who I want to be socially, ie being a normal dude.

I have 2 ways of solving that gap :
1) feminizing myself, my parents would be devastated and in the end it does seem like a rather selfish, egotistical trip. plus it means sterility, living only for myself

2) finding a way to be aroused while being a dude, and accepting that maybe it will be less intense than the agp fantasy

>>7653746
What you do is up to you but I wouldn't pay heed to anyone who unironically uses the term trutrans.
Do you have anyone in meatspace with whom you can talk this over with?

>>7653763
What do you mean when you say that you like being a man socially?

>>7653782
unfortunately, i live in deep provinces of huge cold homophobic country.
ever if i will find smart enough people, what should i talk about? it feels i have nothing to say

>>7653812
I mean in everyday life. I definitely would not be comfortable showing up crossdressed in front of friends or family. but also I mean I would like to have kids with a woman. Apart from that fantasy I'm a normal man and I don't really want to change

>>7653840
I'm sorry. If time is a pressing concern I can understand the decision to self-med, especially if there are no trans-friendly doctors in your region. Good luck. I'm rooting for you.

>>7644047
Good advice I think i'll take up vaping sometime.

Weed tends to make me lazy(which is why I enjoy it at bedtime) so not sure about mixing it with exercise. Maybe I just need the right strain?

Way ahead of you on the exercise, I've gradually been losing weight and it feels great. Would love to see what is under the fat. That was part of my original reason for holding off on HRT, because i've seen what fat trannies look like and it's shameful. I definitely should try life as a /fit/ man before even considering being a tranny.

I'm a combination of introverted, awkward and sometimes apathetic about girls. So I have deeper issues than the 5 basics. But I'll keep those in mind.

>>7653539
>You have to confront yourself honestly and figure out who you are.
If only I'd thought of that before!

>>7653857
This is a bit of an odd question but I think it is important: would you transition in a society which is perfectly accepting of that and allows women to commit to male gender roles? In other words.. is it that you don't desire to transition because living as a woman is simply something you don't want, or is it because the practical cost of that is too high? Would your friends and family being proud of you for doing so change anything?

>>7653898
Sounds obvious, but is actually very different from "just look at this simple list of symptoms and check a box!".

>>7653937
All I've figured out about who I am is that I can never be what I want.

>>7653979
You might be able to be fairly close to what you want to be though, at least where it counts.

>>7653901
Good question.

I live in a western country with anti discrimination laws and I work in IT so I could probably do it and keep my job.

In a way the society in which I live would probably be more accepting of it than me, I dont want to be a degenerate, also I want to have kids, so all in all these are the two main reasons why I'm probably not going to go farther than crossdressing.

>>7653658
>at least you know what you want, and you are consistent about it.
Not really. Ever being a girl is a dream and I'm not transitioning.

I'm in your position, I know I'm not a woman though I want to be one, my feelings on crossdressing are the same as yours >>7653857 and faced with your decision >>7653763 I haven't picked 1 either.

I'm just going to accept never being aroused like other men are and keep having my fantasies.

>>7654041
>Degenerate
Self-hate red flag. Why do you consider this sort of behavior to be wrong?

>Kids
Understandable.

>>7654046
I used to be like that, but then I had a nice girlfriend.

everything was good, and I was erect with her, but would never come inside her.

she was patient and tried all sorts of things to get me to come inside her mouth / vagina / anus but then when it failed she got bored and dumped me...

this happened with a few different girls.

so now I want to make sure that the next girl I'm with, I'm able to come inside her.

>>7654130
Why couldn't you come inside her, if you could still be imagining being a girl the same as if you were masturbating?

>>7653901
Not that anon, but can you explain this again? Did you mean "and allows men to commit to female gender roles"?

>>7653999
That's my hope.

>>7654188
if I understand correctly, you are asking why I could not "masturbate inside her", fucking while using that fantasy. well for one I was looking at her and it would have been weird to fuck with eyes closed.

I dont know. My theory is that whenever you masturbate to a fantasy, you reinforce a specific neurological path for pleasure (feedback loop). at that point I had never come without an element of feminization.

>>7654240
>Did you mean "and allows men to commit to female gender roles"?
No, since you'd be a woman. One of the possible reasons to not transition is because you dislike and do not want to take on the social roles assigned to women. I wanted to know whether the other poster would transition if this wasn't a factor. Not every MTF wants to conform to gender roles. Some are just uncomfortable in their body.

>>7654261
>well for one I was looking at her and it would have been weird to fuck with eyes closed.
Couldn't you project as her? Imagining experiencing what she's experiencing?

>at that point I had never come without an element of feminization.
Same, to this day.

>>7654099
I dont hate myself but I would like to set high standards for myself.

I am not sure I would call it "wrong", since I would only potentially hurt myself and my close family, those that care the most for me.

certainly I would not call it responsible, especially in the current context of europe. We have politicians and experts explaining on tv that mass immigration is necessary because europeans aren't having enough babies. And in public places around here I see many mixed couples, african immigrant with white woman. At first I didnt care but now to be honest I dont like it, I feel that indulging in a sissy fantasy would be doing exactly what *they* want me to do. I feel like I would be letting down many people and not being a responsible person.

>>7654306
I dont know man.

Looks like, in real sex, you're supposed to be the dude. The girl is passive, offering herself to you. Whatever they say, in regular sex the man is sort of dominant.

So if you're aroused at the idea of being a subsmissive sissy, an excitement that you have reinforced by years of masturbation, like a pavlov dog, it gets harder to get off to regular sex.

I remember having sex with the girl for one hour, without coming. Then she felt sore, so I went in the bathroom and started to masturbate and came in 5 minutes using the feminization fantasy.

>>7654413
That doesn't sound good. Maybe it varies between AGPs?

Maybe it would be different with a dominant girl? Or a guy?

>>7654329
>Falling for the nationalism meme

>>7654329
>>7654492
>you're a girl
>you're white
which would you pick?

>>7654556
The second person you're responding to here. I don't care about what color I am. Wouldn't turn up my nose at a free sex change though.

>>7654451
not interested in men, never have been.

I have never met a girl that is sexually dominant. I dont know if that exists.

In the recent weeks I have successfully masturbated without using feminization fantasy, for the first time.

I'm going to "train" a bit more and then I'll try again to have sex with a woman.

File: 1425326164_kenya-moore-article.jpg (80KB, 467x400px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 467x400px

>>7653871
>I've gradually been losing weight and it feels great.
>i've seen what fat trannies look like and it's shameful.
Your post would make sense if you were FTM.
White people confirmed for getting genders wrong.

is that possible to be AGP and asexual and aromantic? asking for a friend

>>7655579

Blanchard says all asexual trannies are AGP, so the answer is probably yes. As for aromantic, that wasn't part of the research, but the answer is most likely still yes.

>>7655579
>>7655642
>philia
>asexual
Blanchard for retard.

>>7655579
Uh so I'm not an expert on asexuality but how could you be asexual and experience this decidedly sexual thing?

Whoever is going to make the new thread, please choose a cute picture for the OP. Cute>lewd.

>>7656851
>Cute>lewd.
It's autogynephilia, not autopedophilia. Cute is irrelevant. Make Autopedophilia General for cute.

>>7612857

New thread:
>>7657028
>>7657028
>>7657028

>>7657034
That's not sexy or cute!

>>7657016
>implying AGPs aren't into AR as well as TG

>>7657048
They poison the well of transgender by implying that you must be small, weak and skinny to be feminine.

>>7657016
>Adult women can't be cute
You're weird.

>>7657071
>not wanting to be small, weak and skinny

>>7657075
>Adult women can look and act like children.
Attraction to such women is paedophilia in denial.

>>7657083
You've captured my essence, thank you :).

>>7657085
Read the thread retard, we want to be the women.

>>7657092
so transition then

>>7657092
Yeah, it nowhere reads "Autopedophilia General".

>>7657101
>transition
>being a woman

AR is a common AGP fantasy.

>>7657113
Is this why every single AGP thread should be AR?
Even so, I don't think AR is anything to do with AGP.
AGP is about women, AR is about children.

>>7657085
>The only way to be cute is to be childlike
This is a fucked up way to view things.

>>7657127
Not every AGP also likes AR and few or none like it all of the time. But it's connected to AGP.