Imagine being able to walk through a crowd of people and not having to say excuse me, imagine always having the right of way in grocery stores when you need to get through, imagine being able to talk over and interrupt females to propose the exact concept they just shared. Imagine not being allowed to have emotions and being expected to be a sex fiend who should be watched closely for intent. Imagine being seen as expendable enough to send to fight wars, imagine dying for all those women who see you as a monster for the actions of others. Imagine being a robot but with skin.
>>5724141 it's not like it's universal if you're a trans guy, people don't congratulate you for it so it's like this weird thing that you have to do and you can't explain yourself, it just is what it is also when everyone is pressuring you to be a girl it feels really gay, like internally you feel embarrassed but eventually get over it because patriarchy is a prison for us all
You constantly have a mushy sack between your legs, the hotter it is the more sticky and uncomfortable it becomes, if it's hot enough it can even start hurting from lack of support if your underwear isn't tight enough or random erections throughout the day stretched out your underwear
I realize cis guys in particular might not understand how to answer this question, but what do you like about being male-bodied? Like, what's enjoyable about it? And what do you like about masculinity/being masculine, if anything?
>have to work hard >have to sacrifice >thankless >don't have to worry about bleeding from the crotch Pretty shit tbqh unless you're loaded in which case life is a breeze, but that's true regardless of gender.
>>5724889 My favorite part about it. No unruly hormones. On the down side I have to deal with a mostly female family that often misinterprets benign statements as insults.
>"honey please dont put your trash here it leaks all over the floor" >"YOU THINK IM A SLOB DONT YOU?" >"what? no just dont do it, put it in the can i bought you" >"YOU DONT THINK I CAN DO ANYTHING RIGHT!!!" >"Oh Jesus fucking christ just clean up after yourself"
Not an exaggeration she gets like this at the end of every month.
You're never really relaxed. You're always just a little bit angry, or frustrated, because your analyzing - it's a restless feeling.
You don't get hung up on small fights, and mostly look to dismis. This is why men can have play fights.
You scratch yourself in public. And fantasizes about violent encounters.
You stare at asses, just without thinking. Jacking off takes no time to prepare for, clean up is easy - but the orgasm only last 5 seconds (no joke).
Most folks don't care if you dress like shit.
Most notably though, men don't talk to each other about themselves, their feelings, concerns, their day, other men. Just analytical observation. (Sports, video games, a woman's looks, how much one can drink, eat, et c)
>>5724566 Cis bi guy. Having a male body makes you feel powerful (if you work out). You get a lot out of exercising as a guy. There's a lot less detail work to maintain your appearance than women are expected to do.
As far as being traditionally masculine, I like nothing about it. I hate that I'm supposed to compete with other men. I hate that if I want to paint my nails or cross my legs I'm giving up some level of respect in the eyes of others (I'm doing both now anyway). I hate hate hate that I'm supposed to be aggressive and controlling and in pursuit. I hate that I'm supposed to give a fuck about working with my hands. I hate all kinds of macho garbage. I fucking hate my life as a man even though I have no desire to be a woman, because I feel so alienated from the traditional roles and expectations, and because that makes me feel completely undesired and undesirable.
>>5724936 tfw tranny tfw can relate to these tbqh >You're never really relaxed. >You're always just a little bit angry, or frustrated, because your analyzing - it's a restless feeling. >don't talk to each other about themselves, their feelings, concerns, their day, other men. Just analytical observation i am glad to be honest, i hate talking about myself and i would rather just spend time talking about some assburger shit
The toughest thing about this question is that most have only lived as either a guy or gal. To understand how a society treats the same person differently based on appearance of boy/girl some have tried dressing in drag and recording experiences. There's youtube videos of this I think.
However, from an internal perspective, as in "what is it like to have a male consciousness vs a female one" I don't know if that question could ever be answered. We only ever exist as ourselves, so we have nothing to compare it to. You can try to come up with individual facts about your life, but god help you in attempting to figure out whether or not a psychological trait is due to "male/female" or one of the million other things that make us us.
>>5724889 >aging slower Like how they go bald by 25? >no hormonal roller-coaster But that's wrong. Men have hormonal cycles each month and through each season and their hormones fluctuate each hour. They aren't as studied because they don't bleed. But you can tell they have IMS when they become hypersensitive, frustrated, anxious, or aggressive.
>>5724141 Most of the time it's just a presence there that I don't pay attention to.
When I get hard though it feels achey in a good way, pressing against my pants. Cumming is hard to describe, imagine a muscle spasm/cramp in you leg except pleasurable. There's a period of extreme tension in the seconds before your orgasm where you know your going to cum and it can't be stopped, and then your shaking and gasping and cumming everywhere.
Peeing is nice too. I pity people who haven't had the chance to pee during a pretty, chilly day. It's orgasmic, you can feel the cold air and wind on your cock but the warmth at the same time.
>>5725262 >there are people who will never be able to experience a male orgasm firsthand It's a real damn shame. The simple act of penetration alone is indescribably wonderful.
For those who aren't experienced in such matters: imagine sticking your finger in a orifice, with all of the warmth, moisture, and tightness that it entails. Suck on your finger (or stick it somewhere in your downstairs mixup). Focus on how the finger feels. Now imagine it has all the nerves and erogenous zones your genitalia has.
>>5724141 >You just want to fight everyone when you are in a bad mod >you cant fucking cry in front of your buddys >Shaving every fucking day is a nightmare >you rarely get to pick mates you just hit on everything and anything that you want to fuck >working out and getting buff is fun >using your dick is fun >not being able to wear pretty things that stand out is upsetting >clothing just falls apart cus man jobs cant work at a fucking clothing store >I have to make more money then my partner even if im dating a guy cus im fucking top and bottoms are fucking queens >If you dont eat right you start to smell bad by the end of the day >hair lots of fucking hair its fucking everywhere >No support since you are tuff guy >voice sounds super deep and i hate it >anger eps instead of pms >cant speak up about how someone is wrong or you'll look like an asshole even if they're the one being a btich >rarely get to cuddle with anyone cus you gotta be manly >if you are not being manly you will be questioned about it
Being a guy sucks and its just fucking pain if you are poor, ugly, fat, or weak.
Being ftm Is prob soo much easier (after puberty) just becuse they do have to deal with all the shit young men put each other thu.
I wanna bash in the skulls of my enemy's,pick my bird and eat meat fuck you.
>>5724141 First off, ftm don't know what it's like to be a man whatsoever. They flat out don't and nothing will change that. >Men can't express their emotions nearly as much as girls >When men have a problem, they solve it, unless they're at odds for very personal reasons >Guys get anger out quickly through violence, so punching is an easy stress reliever >Having balls sucks, they get hot and sweaty and smelly, are uncomfortable at times and literally the most painful experience at other times >Not having to give a fuck about what you wear as long as its not pajamas or sweatpants
Really a fish doesn't know what it's like to live out of water so mind asking specific questions?
>>5724141 Not sure how to compare it to being anything else, but it's awfully nice to have a flesh baton with which to bludgeon your enemies - using the generally superior-than-women's muscles that take only a modicum of effort and a decent diet to obtain, of course.
Also, not being arrested for having no clothes on my upper body is nice.
And now that I think about it, being able to accurately adjust your aim when you're pissing is nice.
Essentially it's a dual life, with males it's a competition, drinking, whose strongest, whose fastest, who deserves a promotion, it's like everyone is the American psycho barely hanging on to their humanity, they treat women like meat behind their back, and anyone that can't keep up complete the mission is useless. When no women were around it was complete chaos and debautchery, filled with fist fights and black outs.
With women, they fear you just a little bit, if I was walking too fast they'd flip out, my first girlfriend thought I was stalking her for a month, and I didn't even know who she was until I asked her out, I was oblivious, but she'd recognize me around and feared me. I also could never look or smile at a child around a woman without getting a scornful look. Women would depend on me when we worked and would expect me to do some of their work, for whatever reason.
On estrogen, men demean me, women are super nice to me, we all work collaboratively, no more sandbagging expecting me to take charge and do their work, no one goes alpha on me and starts fights because they're insecure. I just live a happy, human life unlike anything I knew living as a man.
>>5727030 >just becuse they do have to deal with all the shit young men put each other thu >implying implications Girls of the same age can be mean as fuck, man. If you're FtM, I'd say there's a good chance you probably stood out as "different" in some way during your adolescence. That usually means you get bullied and/or ostracized. The idea that girls waltz through all of this shit without going through any of the hard things guys have to deal with growing up is absurd. Honestly, guys and girls complain about so much of the same shit, or analogous shit. It's pretty funny, IMO.
>>5727257 So, if you live full-time as a man, you can NEVER "know what it's like to be a man"? What exactly does this knowledge entail that can't be gained through personal experience (and, perhaps, reading about the experiences of others)? If you transitioned and lived, 100% stealth, for, say, 40 years as a man, would you still not "know what it's like to be a man"? I'm honestly curious.
BTW, all of the points you listed, aside from the one about having testicles (although some FtMs do get implants), are things that FtMs can or will experience, too. I'm talking about actual FtMs who live as male, not Tumblr special snowflake "trans" men who are just cis girls who insist on being called guys.
>>5727387 >>5727417 They will not have gone through the conditoning of being born and raised a male through puberty The sheer amount of "You can not show emotions, otherwise you're a sissy faggot" really fucking defines what being a man is They've never been bullied by true school boy bullies, they've never been in a fight, they don't know what the constant and burning hatred feels like They'll always be coddled and obviously picked out as transwomen due to their un-manly like nature
Oh and if you want extremely nuanced masculine things: >Using very few words when communicating simple things >Insulting eachother really harshly as friends >Conflicts between guys are usually physical >Being at odds against a guy actually can lead to you being his friend
>>5727460 Well, yeah. And I don't know why I'm replying, I guess the troll succeeded.
>>5727483 Are you not aware that bullying (by "true" bullies) happens to "outcast" girls (a category into which, I'm guessing, most FtMs fell), too? Physical as well as verbal/emotional. Do you really think that talking shit to close friends is exclusive to men? Come on. Your generalizations are stupid, but you're getting me to respond to your trolling, so congrats.
These are learned behaviors that aren't exclusive to men. Women grow up with a wide variety of experiences, as, of course, do men. The idea that all women are "always coddled" and go through life on easy mode is just plain wrong.
>>5727417 Girls of the same age can be mean as fuck, man. If you're FtM, I'd say there's a good chance you probably stood out as "different" in some way during your adolescence. That usually means you get bullied and/or ostracized. The idea that girls waltz through all of this shit without going through any of the hard things guys have to deal with growing up is absurd. Honestly, guys and girls complain about so much of the same shit, or analogous shit. It's pretty funny, IMO.
Its the reason its not subjective was that i was just trying to explain what it is/feels like to be a man.
>>5727700 Wait no, fuck no, yes you can be raised like a woman and still be a man, but you are just a second class of man, you are basically treated like an incompetent woman that they don't want to fuck.
I see ftms say "oh I've gotten into fights", how the fuck have you, you don't have the strength of a man, you will never be hit like a man until you're both stealth and intimidating enough to warrant the response. Women thing they've been hit before, but they don't know what it's like getting hit by someone that knows he might kill someone smaller if he hits them wrong.
Maybe if ftms were seeing statistical relevance in the workplace where they were matching men's promtion rates and wages, I'd believe they were living as and seen as men, but them being relegated to women's pay and worse unemployment numbers then anyone but mtfs tells me they just aren't there as a group.
Please provide receipts for this. I find it very difficult to believe that post-transition, stealth trans men are subject to wage ceilings.
You can talk all you want about how trans men aren't being "seen as men" but the fact of the matter is a lot of us are completely and totally stealth. Keep on believing that you can point us out from a crowd if it makes you feel better, though.
>>5727735 You're hilarious. How have FtMs gotten in fights? I don't know, like people? First, you do realize that some women are stronger, bigger, and/or more aggressive than some men, right? Also, do you think there aren't people who will attack smaller, weaker targets and that everyone just "picks on someone their own size"? Oh boy.
And where are you getting this info about FtMs in the workplace? We're "just [not] there as a group"? What? Honestly, it doesn't matter what you believe about whether there are FtMs living as and being seen as men. It's a fact, not a matter of faith.
>>5727749 Not this again. Go back to /r9k/ or wherever you came from.
>>5727773 >Keep on believing that you can point us out from a crowd if it makes you feel better, though. This always makes me think of Silence of the Lambs (pic related). Also, I've often heard people say things like "every tranny I've seen is ugly" or "I've never seen a trans person who passed" or whatever, but it only applies to the people they saw and actually correctly clocked as trans...
these beta male shits are pissing themselves because they don't want to acknowledge that (on T) FTM male bodies are biologically superior.
>sturdy xx chromosomes >no gaudy overly masculine features (big ears, big nose >longer life span if we don't kill ourselves >less risk of a genetic disorder >T gives us the ability to build up muscle mass like men ergo be just as physically strong
>>5724982 My new group of friends is actually very open about their feelings and looks, it's the best thing in the world, just a "you look pretty good today" in the morning helps so much to get through the day.
>>5727940 OK, I'm glad you know what those words mean. It's just that you said >I was not being subjective for the reason of getting a point across. >not being subjective i.e. >I was being objective for the reason of getting a point across.
This is stupid. I'm nodding off. Have fun being a "real man." Goodnight legbutts.
>>5727968 >implying you have to mate to be useful This isn't 18,000BC anymore. Plenty of men see successful lives without having once dipped their wick. I mean yeah, passing on your genes is nice, what with the sexual contact and raising a family afterwards. But it's not by any stretch a requirement for success (the definition of which is subjective anyway).
Being a man is literally the best thing you can be.
>Everyone has more respect for you >Best jobs, best pay, easier promotions >Logical brain, not a slave to emotions >Physically stronger, better athlete/fighter >You can have as much sex as you want without being viewed negatively >Testosterone makes you confident and assertive >When society collapses, you wont become a rape doll/slave like 99% women
What a strange question to ask. I was born a man but there is no coherent identity attached to that, in fact I've never thought about it before I read your thread. If you asked what was so great about being me, personally I would have an answer but I don't really have an answer because everyone have a different experience and understanding of such an arbitrary aspect of their life.
>>5724566 Let's see... I'm trying to think of every-day stuff >no periods, that's great >more hygienic urination >better strength in average >don't have to shave or have to have makeup >easier hairdressing Ad for cons, >having feelings is pretty much considered gay today >you are expected to be strong minded, literally manly >when the fridge have to get up on the 3rd floor, you are being pointed at under 2 seconds >video related when you are done with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi8ShAosqzI
>>5728864 >Logical brain, not a slave to emotions i hate this meme. most men don't even realize that anger and other negative emotions are emotions too. most men are so sensitive, the only difference being they start screaming and hitting instead of screaming and crying. and there's not many people in general who are logical.
I know the question isn't for mtfs but I hated living as a man, I was literally expected to be a piece of equipment who wasn't allowed to do anything but work. Oh and if I showed emotion I would get the belt. The only thing I wouldn't be hurt for is acting like an ape, shooting shit, jumping my motorcycle, and working out. fuck being a guy
>>5729240 ">Anecdotal evidence is evidence from anecdotes. Where only one or a few anecdotes are presented, there is a larger chance that they may be unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise non-representative samples of typical cases." Your argument is actually invalid
Why are people such assholes, though? I try to compliment everyone, or, at the very least, express my appreciation when someone has done something for me. I grew up watching my mom treat my dad like crap, put him down, take everything he did for granted, expect him to do so much shit and never say a thing about it, etc. They're still together (over 30 years) and she still treats him like a slave. It's infuriating. I feel like I'm hypersensitive to this kind of shit now, though, so I'm always trying to make sure people are appreciated for the things they do.
>>5729124 This is true. I've gotten into arguments with guys who claim that they're SO LOGICAL SO RATIONAL ALL THE TIME JUDGMENT NEVER CLOUDED BY EMOTIONS AND HORMONES LIKE STUPID WEAK WOMEN, but they get butthurt and enraged if you even imply that they might be wrong about something or say something that makes them feel like you're challenging their manliness.
>>5729250 Anecdotal evidence is bad Literally the least useful evidence possible, and I'm not even the one making the claim in the first place However, since you obviously don't understand that the burden of proof lies on the person making the claim, I'll provide real evidence to support this guy's claim. http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/sarsons/files/confidence_final.pdf?m=1437407065 "Using data from a select group of economists working in top U.S. universities, we find that women are still less confident than men along two margins. First, when asked about their level of agreement on survey questions about the economy, women are 7.6% points less likely to give “extreme” answers in which they strongly agree or disagree. Second, women are less confident in the accuracy of their answer. Women express a level of confidence that is 0.340 points lower than a comparable man, as measured on a scale of 1 (unconfident) to 10 (very confident)."
You are wrong, and your anecdotal evidence is wrong too.
>>5729240 >>5729250 Different anon, but I'll counter previous anon's anecdote with some anecDATA of my own and say that I've met far more secure, confident men than I have women. Sure, men can be insecure, and women can be confident. But most women are extremely insecure about a number of issues--partially, I suppose, because they've been taught that they should be ashamed of these issues (the same thing happens to men, but, I believe, to a lesser extent. Most of the beauty and weight loss industries are built on playing to women's insecurities. So, there you go. More anecdotal evidence.
And also, self awareness/confidence does not mean that men don't have insecurities or shortcomings that they're sensitive about, they just hide those from other people
Oh and I'll requote the important bit since it's kind of hard to read:
>"Using data from a select group of economists working in top U.S. universities, we find that women are still less confident than men along two margins. First, when asked about their level of agreement on survey questions about the economy, women are 7.6% points less likely to give “extreme” answers in which they strongly agree or disagree. Second, women are less confident in the accuracy of their answer. Women express a level of confidence that is 0.340 points lower than a comparable man, as measured on a scale of 1 (unconfident) to 10 (very confident)." http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/sarsons/files/confidence_final.pdf?m=1437407065
>>5729276 >>5729286 >However, since you obviously don't understand that the burden of proof lies on the person making the claim, I'll provide real evidence to support this guy's claim. are you shitting me or do you live in your own reality?
yeah, i know that women are less confident but where is the connection to testosterone?
>>5729295 I am not the guy who made the first claim. I am a different person. As far as I know or care, there is no connection between testosterone and confidence, and that claim is baseless and false. However, your argument of "Most men are pussies." is a clear anecdote, and I have disproven that. You are currently moving the goalposts, sprinkled with some ad hominem.
>>5729304 >your argument of "Most men are pussies." i have said already i am not that anon in the post you replied with your study that doesn't support the claim the other guy made: "Testosterone makes you confident and assertive".
>>5729318 so there was literally no reason to join the conversation for you besides the need to call someone else braindead while not being able to understand what the conversation is about. gotcha. sorry, i took your reply seriously.
>>5729295 That testosterone levels positively correlate with behaviors including assertiveness and confidence is literally a proven fact. This is like, Bio 101 shit. There are countless studies. I'm not going to write you a fucking research paper, but here's one quote (one of the first things I found, because I'm not spending an hour trying to track down the perfect quote). From a 2012 review in the journal Psychiatry Research: >behavioral endophenotypes induced by testosterone can also predispose towards socially adaptive traits such as a strong achievement motivation, leadership, fair bargaining behaviors, and social assertiveness http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22925371
>>5729333 okay, lets get back to your study and the qoute you wanted to disprove: "most men are pussies". you're study isn't talking about that either. at least the citation from you. the citation is only talking about the relative confidence. men are in general more confident than women. it doesn't say how many men are confident though. so technically "most men are pussies" could still be correct. >>5729326 that's a study that is actually adressing the topic. however i don't believe you that that qoute is anything but picky because: >It is suggested that high fetal/circulating testosterone interactively influence the maturation and functionality of mesolimbic dopaminergic circuitry, right orbitofrontal cortex, and cortico-subcortical connectivity, resulting in a strong reward motivation, low social sensitivity, and dampened regulation of strong motivational/emotional processes. The link between these testosterone induced endophenotypes and actual display of antisocial behavior is strongly modulated by different social (e.g., social rejection, low SES) and genetic (e.g., MAOA, 5HTT) risk factors that can disturb socio-, psycho-, and biological development and interact with testosterone in shaping behavior. When these additional risk factors are present, the testosterone induced endophenotypes may increase the risk for a chronic antisocial lifestyle. is what comes right before that qoute. also the sentence right after that qoute: >These adaptive traits are more likely to emerge when the high testosterone individual has positive social experiences that promote prosocial behaviors such as strong and secure attachments with his caregivers, affiliation with prosocial peers, and sufficient socioeconomic resources. so all in all the claim "Testosterone makes you confident and assertive" is as i understand it only true in it's rawest form. meaning that confident and assertive must not only be seen in the positive context as it usually is but also the negative.
There are plenty of correlations between forms of intelligence and behavioural/personality characteristics as a factor of hormonal concentrations in the blood. One such one is testosterone increasing spatial co-ordination (such as map reading). These aren't casual correlations.
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