>>5721102 Doesn't even show how the man's life was ruined, seems to imply that cis men are so fragile that trannies not unanimously agreeing with their unoriginal and uninformed opinions presented as fact is enough to "ruin their life".
>>5721102 >Choosing to take on traditionally "female" characteristics >The same as forcing others to take on the characteristics of their gender Just because I like wearing hats doesn't mean I support forcing others to wear hats.
>>5721261 No like "genderfluid" transgender, and she still uses "they" looks like typical tumblrite but chubbier >>5721276 I think it's sexist to say men can't wear dresses. And it's sexist to think that you need to look like a traditional woman to feel like a traditional woman (long hair, small sholders and wide hips, "feminine" clothes, small hands and feet, etc) like pic related.
I seriously don't get why cis people accuse us of being sexist when they were the ones that created sexism in the first place and continue to perpetuate it to this day. You wanna know why so many trannies over compensate and try to put on their best impression of what society expects from a man/woman? Because they fucking get a disproportionate amount of bullshit if they don't conform. Because the doctors that are supposedly there to help them won't allow them to undergo treatment if they don't put on a show for them and act like the clinically appropriate caricature assigned to transgender people. If you're too feminine, you're obviously just a fetishist that's reinforcing misogynistic gender roles. If you're too masculine you're obviously just a sexual predator that's faking it and not even transgender. And if you don't pass, you might as well kill yourself because cis people will treat you like a subhuman. We can't win with you fuckers.
If you wanna call me sexist for trying to conform to what society holds to be female/feminine, then why don't you put your money where your fucking mouth is and call a 6'2", pre-hrt trans woman with a full fucking beard and nothing remotely feminine on her a woman, and treat her as such with full access to the appropriate bathrooms and all that fun shit. After all, it's 2016. Get with the times you sexist shitlords!
>>5721421 >sexual dimorphism is sexist >implying that averages are representative of every individual in a population this is where your argument fails On AVERAGE women have those traits, but to assume ALL women have those traits is sexist
>>5721297 >And it's sexist to think that you need to look like a traditional woman to feel like a traditional woman (long hair, small sholders and wide hips, "feminine" clothes, small hands and feet, etc) Finally someone that gets it.
I shouldn't have to look like a stereotypical woman to be a woman.
>>5721102 I love the memes where a comic maker represents a group they don't like as well as themselves in an argument. It really makes me happy when they win the argument because they're fucking writing for both sides, and they don't know/don't care about the argument the other side has.
Anyways this argument is trumped by the fact that trans people wish to have bodies that reflect their body, and they wish to be seen as their gender by those around them. Clothes that are typically associated with a gender make at least the latter, and quite possibly the former, very much easier.
>>5721465 Except that the highest masculinity and the highest femininity on the bell curve for females and males, respectively, don't go anywhere near the highest femininity and the highest masculinity of the other sex.
Also please quote where >>5721421 said that all women have those traits. I don't believe it's possible, but I've been proved wrong before. So please do try.
>>5721102 By the logic of this argument, cis gender people are being sexist too by wearing clothes typically associated with their gender. So someone can't be cis without being sexist. This notion is absurd of course. Also I love how the name of the author is a reference to /pol/s shitty antisemitic rhetoric. They did a great job as well of saying that being politically correct is a culture, as opposed to using accurate words and phrases. While I do agree that there are some who attempt to use the argument that someone is not being politically correct (often when they are) to silence others, /pol/ takes it to another level and attempts to actively avoid PC words and phrases. I don't know what I expected when the name of their board is literally politically incorrect. /pol/ shitposters incoming.
>>5722928 So it's not absurd to say that someone can't be cis without being sexist? Wow have I been mislead. I need to go outside and preach that whether someone is trans or cis they are sexist because of it. How is it not absurd?
>>5722462 >cis people are sexist Comic OP here. I'm agender and actually have a Jewish heritage. The (black) guy is actually agender too, and yes, by his line of reasoning being cis is sexist. In fact, by his line of reasoning anything that deals with the concept of femininity and masculinity is sexist. That's what I was trying to say.
Also I can't believe I pulled off the hair on the stick figure in the last panel. That's some top level shit. >being PC to silence others Yep
>>5722935 Because the whole concept of "masculinity" and "femininity" are sexist inherently because it assigns different actions to a certain gender. The only way you can avoid being inherently sexist is to not have a gender identity like me. (Agender) I'm so comfortable with my biological sex that I just don't give a fuck anymore.
>>5724051 I don't believe he was saying he would ban medicine specifically. He's saying anyone who isn't agender is inherently sexist. However it doesn't mean you can't get HORMONAL treatments, which doesn't imply masculinity or femininity at all, because it's solely a sex thing and not a gender issue.
>>5724051 >>5724068 I meant getting hormonal treatments for medical problems. If you want to become a woman or a man, it's sexist unless you want it only for the functionality of being a woman or a man
>>5721363 >I seriously don't get why cis people accuse us of being sexist when they were the ones that created sexism in the first place and continue to perpetuate it to this day. Sexism was created by men.
I broadly agree with the caricature in the OP. Although I sympathize with trans folks on an individual level, I could never support the sexist ideals propagated by transgender activists these days. Erasing out women, forcibly penetrating their safe spaces and political groups, reinforcing gender stereotypes, and more...
If you're experiencing gender and/or sex dysphoria, a possible solution might be to learn gender abolitionism and prune your subconscious from the belief that just because you have certain genitalia, you must necessarily fit the cultural stereotype of people with that genitalia. If this is too difficult, then it's fine to transition, but I would beg you to become aware of radical feminist theory and how it applies to your life and transgenderism.
Note: some transgender/transsexual people themselves have ironically been labeled "TERF" just because they agreed with radical feminists on that their gender/sex dysphoria was most likely caused by patriarchal gender stereotypes. Take care. People are nuts.
>>5721276 >>5722462 >By the logic of this argument, cis gender people are being sexist too by wearing clothes typically associated with their gender.
Is a black person being racist when they call each other nigger, wear stereotypical black people clothes (baggy pants or whatever it is), and so on?
It can be argued that transwomen are appropriating womanhood. While women's culture has been distorted by sexism, they have the chance of correcting it, and/or fighting directly against their discrimination, while not directly caring about transgressing their stereotypical clothing and behavior. It's a different thing when a male takes on stereotypical women's clothing and behavior and goes around calling himself a woman.
I'm just trying to give you the (extreme) opposite perspective though. Wouldn't normally misgender people and shit. Though transwomen/transmen should come to terms with the fact that they are biologically male/female respectively. (Take for the difference HRT/SRS/etc. can make in their biology, which is not to be underestimated, but you'll never be fully female/male and it would be harmful not to come to terms with that.)
>>5724764 >"feminine" and "masculine" exist >Let's stop pretending they don't
They're absolutely made up, arbitrary categories. Some personality traits get thrown into one, some into the other, some can be considered in either category depending on the situation, some are generally put into neither category.
Feminine and masculine is a load of bullshit really. Think Myer-Brigges personality types, except *entirely* unscientific and arbitrary.
>all medicine that offends me should be banned >patients who suffer are evil >it's wrong to be too effeminate or look feminine >it's a crime to use makeup when it's only for women >I know more than the Jew doctors because muh feels >>>/pol/tumblr/ Your delusions of grandure are no justification for banning medicine or natural rights. We aren't going to kill people just to suit your infantile whims.
>>5725290 I was simply giving you their line of reasoning, which is legitimate. If we don't have a moral treatment, we should be looking for one. (And no, conversion therapy isn't it, not at all.)
>>5725329 That's a whole army of straw men you have there. Never said anything should be banned. Never said anyone is evil. Never said it was wrong to be or look however you want to, SO LONG as it's not appropriation of a certain culture. Never said anything was a crime. Never said I know more than anyone.
Please don't turn this into brainless shit flinging.
>>5725343 Men in every major culture wear lipstick?
>>5725206 Oh fuck off you radfem shill. If you wanna abolish gender then men and women should share the same spaces because equality. The idea that a male is an inherent threat to a female even if that person is a trans woman is a misandrist notion at best. The only place our sex should matter is with private medical matters or romantic partners. Everything else is arbitrary categorization of the sexes (gender) and a pathway to sexism.
>>5725206 >banning all mention of gender and forcing the state to eliminate individualism will magically eliminate conditions caused by major hormonal and neurological disorders Scientology level bullshit right there
>>5725364 Men have used makeup in European, Asian and Egyptian, Byzantine-orthodox and Mesopotamian courts.
You're turning that into a evil transgression.
You're equating that to racial discrimination. You're appropriating things I might have to deal with as someone who's brown, for your corrupt and authoritarian version of feminism which seeks to eliminate anyone different.
>>5725255 >It can be argued that transwomen are appropriating womanhood. While women's culture has been distorted by sexism, they have the chance of correcting it, and/or fighting directly against their discrimination, while not directly caring about transgressing their stereotypical clothing and behavior. It's a different thing when a male takes on stereotypical women's clothing and behavior and goes around calling himself a woman. Why is it only wrong when trans women do it? Trans women are rare enough that their effect in perpetuating gender roles is nearly insignificant - but cis women do it all the time, and they're everywhere.
>>5725369 >If you wanna abolish gender then men and women should share the same spaces because equality. That's like saying if we want to abolish racism we should not be concerned about cities with mostly-black populations having mostly-white police forces.
>>5725397 Literally since when do men in general wear women's makeup? I think you're missing the fundamental point here, which is that a male person does something which the stereotypical and/or culture-obedient women is supposed to do, and say that this makes them a woman. That's appropriation.
>>5725411 >and say that this makes them a woman. That's appropriation Most people don't say anything makes them a woman but if they do, they're usually talking about medically transitioning or what they want their body to be.
>>5725411 Why does it matter thay the police force is mostly white? White guys like being cops, apparently. Do you have something against white people? That's racist! It's 2016, black people are more than welcome to join their local police forces. If there's any such exclusion within the police forces then steps should be taken to curb the arbitrary exclusion of racial minorities.
>>5725411 >Because appropriation. See >>5725255. That's the post I was replying to in the first place. And in any case it doesn't change the fact that many cis women are willingly contributing to gender stereotypes. If you're going to argue that individuals must alter their lifestyle to fight stereotypes, then that includes cis people too.
>>5725414 >appropriating racism Sexism is called sexism because it's analogous to racism you ignorant shit.
>>5725428 >Literally in nearly all of the historical aristocracy. You're being delusional. Men have traditionally not, and especially today don't, wear women's makeup, and transgender women wearing makeup don't do so because men have historically done so; they do so because they associate it with womanhood. Therefore, the perspective that they are appropriating womanhood is perfectly legitimate.
It's daunting how irrational people get when you point out a good argument.
>>5725435 >you're equating people getting medicine or looking feminine to racialism If you'd knew how to read you'd note that I've been talking about makeup and clothing, not HRT, SRS, or naturally looking feminine.
>>5725506 It's a problem if white people police black people in the USA for reasons that should be obvious and if you're that ignorant then I'm sorry I don't have time for you, need to go sleep.
>>5725510 >it doesn't change the fact that many cis women are willingly contributing to gender stereotypes No, it doesn't, but that was not what we were talking about. And there's still a significant difference between a woman simply complying to her stereotype, and a male person complying to the female stereotype as part of his/her acclaimed womanness.
>>5725522 Everyone who's an ignorant shit who hasn't read a feminist book in their life, sure.
Enough /lgbt/ for today, this place is too infected by /pol/ and neoliberalism.
Women are a class of people oppressed on the basis of a simple biological designation that is their genitalia, entirely analogous to how blacks are a class of people oppressed on the basis of their skin color. It is perfectly legitimate for women to reject transwomen as real women, and perceive the concept of transgenderism as a form of (unintended) appropriation.
There are alternate viewpoints, but this viewpoint is legitimate and respectable too.
>>5725557 Really can say as someone who's brown that you comparing someone looking feminine as on the same level as racism. Appropriating what other races go through for the sake of your hate. It's all telling.
Push your white supremacist shit elsewhere. People don't have to apologize for the medicine that keeps them going or the way they seem.
>>5725557 >infected by pol Says the racist prick who keeps shouting their memes.
Looking feminine isn't wrong, there isn't any reason to apologize if people assume you're female or for medicine that pushes your body in that direction.
It has nothing to do with your personality or stereotypes your contribute to or even what your 'identity'. You've turned individualism and people expressing themselves in ways that don't innately harm anyone else into a scapegoat for unrelated institutional problems.
Why don't you run off and push your national socialism in pol if we're too liberal or libertarian for you?
>>5725522 No. Plenty of feminists express only "legitimate" hatred (i.e. hatred directed towards bigotry or unfairness, not towards random innocent people) and make an effort to recognize the issues of other races. And isn't it often claimed on reddit and 4chan that feminists are the ones advocating mass immigration of Muslims into Europe? That's hardly the kind of action you would expect from a white supremacist group.
>>5725557 > And there's still a significant difference between a woman simply complying to her stereotype, and a male person complying to the female stereotype as part of his/her acclaimed womanness. Doesn't seem to be much of a meaningful difference, unless trans people think being "feminine" (as defined by stereotypes) is what MAKES them a woman. Otherwise they're just following stereotypes the same way cis women are.
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