>>5622742 Wow, did you just finish watching milo clips? Nice man. Imperialism is envy, Islam is all these people know. What you see is misguided anger due to poor social structures in their homeland. The "Islam or death" is a loss of identity culture shock. This is grasping to what is familiar. Basically if I have to die to make this toxic religion become another harmless faith like christianity so be it. You want progress here is your opportunity for it.
>>5622861 >>5622856 Muslim hoods throughout Europe filled with only north African and Arabs isolated to corner living in poverty is hardly integrating. Yes the crime is not isolated, but it is nowhere to being as relevant to these areas.
>>5622886 Oh please, they're segregated because they have zero fucking money because they have zero fucking talent and zero fucking people skills. They're only happy with Sharia as long as its kind of modernized. They're using Europe. And to all the Muslim men who come to Western countries and do non-Muslim things such as fuck women and drink, and then go and call women whores and rally against their host country, well, they be segregated literally and kill each other for all I care.
>>5622742 As /polgbt/, I'm going to be blunt. I fucking despise their sandnigger religion in the first place, and if they're not willing to adapt to our way of life, then I'm not going to adapt to their presence on my homeland.
>>5623104 When conservatives are the majority (in the Americas or Europe) people can openly speak out against the problems with Islamic culture but can't speak out against the problems with Christian culture. The threads about how homophobic and transphobic Christianity are are made by and for those people as a way to get out their frustrations that they can't express irl. Threads like these are for people who live where the "progressives" are the majority. We can openly talk about the problems in Christian culture but have no irl place to express our concerns with Islamic culture.
I hate Islam as much as communism and fascism. Most of all I hate the fact people still see it as a "religion" when it's not, it's an ideology, ideology that has no place in Western civilization. Europe got rid of communism and fascism so why can't it get rid of Islam too?
As for the refugees. No Syrians come to my country. There are people from non-warzone countries like Iraq. Why the fuck would you go to some small country in north pole, oh right because you think it will be a paradise where everything will be given to you with no work. Then they get disappointed when they realize it's not like that and leave. There are lot of corrupt shitholes in this world but they won't be fixed if everyone just leaves and expects to get pampered in other societies that were built with hard work. I too won't leave my homeland because I love the people here even though I hate the fucked up government that keeps welcoming these people.
Canada here. Even though we promised to take in over 25,000 refugees by February of this year, when a poll was taken amongst the Syrian refugees, their response was an overwhelming "no thanks". They actually preferred NOT to come here, even though it's a first-world country with all the amenities a working family could want. Why? Who knows. Too cold? Have to work for money? Not quite luxurious enough? Too far?
Can you really call them refugees when they're being fucking picky about where to take refuge? I thought they were escaping a warzone, not going on fucking vacation.
>>5622742 I don't know what you meant to imply with your picture OP. The country with the Largest Muslim population in the world, Indonesia, is a democracy.
>>5623632 >I hate the fact people still see it as a "religion" when it's not, it's an ideology Explain what you mean by this. Why is it an ideology and not a religion?
>ideology that has no place in Western civilization What specifically about Islam has no place in Western civilization, and why?
>There are people from non-warzone countries like Iraq One of the first cities ISIL captured was Ramadi. A significant amount of Iraq fell into the hands of ISIL, how can you say Iraq isn't a warzone country?
Of course, I'm not criticizing your views on Immigration, I'm just confused about the above. >>5623680 >Iran, Shiite majority, hangs gays >Turkey, Sunni majority, doesn't hang gays Not to say that being Sunni or Shiite is a reason for tolerance or hatred of homosexuals, but that example invalidates your reasoning.
>>5624280 > Fuck Islam, it's the biggest threat to the world currently I'm an Atheist, but my parents are Muslim. Muslims interpret their teachings differently. Most Muslims will deny or downplay the bad things Muhammad and past Muslims have done, and only concentrate on the good. I wouldn't say my parents are a threat to anyone really.
>>5622742 >How do you all feel about Muslims and Islam and the refugees? As if all bright shining hope for my country got flushed down the drain. >You know they all want to kill you and that you'd be put to death in their countries right? >implying you're saying something new >implying we didn't know 20 years ago pic related.
>>5624631 You're reaching m8. It's certainly illegal, and if it is practiced it would be in backwater parts where law enforcement seldom patrols. None of the Indonesians I had dinner with offered Human parts on the menu.
>>5624682 Aside from the fact that cannibalism is forbidden in Islam, is the possibility that it happens in backwater parts related to the religion of the majority of the country, or because of the level of development of the country? Everything wrong with non-developed Muslim majority countries you'll also find in non-developed Christian majority sub-saharan countries.
>>5624740 Who cares if it's a democracy or not. It's a shitty country not unlike all other muslim countries and frankly they're not countries we should look at for an example. Unless it's an example of how it should not be.
Strongly opposed to Islam. It's a no true scottsman fallacy to say extremist Muslims don't represent the religion. And considering that killing and jailing gays is normal in many Islamic countries, calling what ISIS does extremist is a big stretch.
Liberals who defend Islam are essentially signing their own death warrants. That said, I don't deny there are some pretty chill Muslims out there. Their culture raises them with an honor code that is largely absent on the west.
>>5624830 He's not entirely wrong though. The >The "Islam or death" is a loss of identity culture shock part applies both to Muslim immigrants trying to cope with identity issues in the West and to the Muslim societies themselves trying to find a collective identity after years of colonization and large scale Western interference to secure our geopolitical interests. Of course there are also fundamental differences that make Islam inherently more, well, fundamentalistic, than Christianity that cannot be ignored (for example, the Qu'ran was written a few years after Muhammad's death and is thus considered to be his exact teachings, whereas the Bible was written 300 years after Jesus' death, so it's not interpreted as literally as the Qu'ran). It's hard to say if Islamic societies will ever openly embrace sexual deviants, but keep in mind that a lot of the hatred nowadays is very likely at least partly a reaction to what they consider Western globalist ideology intent on extinguishing their culture.
it teaches that men are inferior to god and shall obey his law, just like christians. that's bad and boring. but it also teach them to be strong, to fight the infedels with all their strenghtstrenght, to create a strong and responsable society. it teaches war and strenght: fight, conquer, enslave, submit their women, breed them, not tolerate alien teachings, stabilize the society with law, be fierce and proud. those are all nice things in my view.
look at it objectively: muslim's families are productive and highly fertile and muslim are eager to band and go to war under one flag.it's working. afterall it's a religion created for joining various tribes in the desert and creating an empire.
what does christianity teach instead? to forgive our enemies, to be weak in combat and war and generally everything, to undermine the strenght of the state with frivolous ideals of god's estabilished peace and love at the expense of the state's good. to accept strangers and let them breed with your people and assist them economically, because " we are all equal". have you heard what the pope said recently?
great ideas christcucks. islam created an empire out of some tribes, christians created 20 divided nations out of one empire. ironically christianity biggest flaw, its weakness, it's also what made it possible for Europe to slip away from its decandent chains and pop up some science and democracy. when christianity is as strong as Muslimdom it ends up in the same strict rigid and freedom-less society, just a little less bloody. honestly i hate them both and humanity need to rise above them, but one is more pathetic than the other.
>>5624986 I don't know if you're false flagging or serious.
>muslim are eager to band and go to war under one flag >it's a religion created for joining various tribes in the desert and creating an empire. >islam created an empire out of some tribes, christians created 20 divided nations out of one empire. Holy fucking shit. You're completely talking out of your ass. Not 30 years after Muhammad's death civil wars where Muslims fought Muslims were occurring. There would be Wars between Muslim States for over 1400 years, some siding with Crusaders against other Muslim States, such as when the Sultunate of Rum aided Crusaders agains the Ayubid Sultante.
>christianity biggest flaw, its weakness, it's also what made it possible for Europe to slip away from its decandent chains and pop up some science and democracy Democracy was being practised in Europe centuries before Christianity's spread. And The Ancient Greeks contributed far more to the Scientific Method than did Christian Theology.
You have no Idea what you're talking about. Please Stop.
>>5624612 >What specifically about Islam has no place in Western civilization The fact that the Quran is taken as literally the word of God, and as such it is inacceptable for actual Muslims not to live by its creed. Whereas the other two (or three) Abrahamic religions accept that their books are mostly parables and are fine with reinterpretating them to fit in the current zeitgeist.
That fucking fact damns the true Muslims to a monolithic and frankly outdated view of the world. Had the Quran said the world was flat, and we would have seen so much more schools exploding.
And I'm not even talking about the various hadiths, but I can give you the executive summary: hadiths a shit.
>>5625117 >Abrahamic religions accept that their books are mostly parables and are fine with reinterpretating them to fit in the current zeitgeist.
The same applies to the Quran. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quranic_parables
And there are a variety of Interpretations among Muslims. One of the Verses of the Quran is literally: 'There is no Compulsion in Religion'. Yet some Muslims still don't tolerate Apostates, and others do.
For what it's worth, I was the Atheist with Muslim parents here earlier in the thread, and my Mother, who knows I'm an Atheist, believes that Apostates shouldn't be punished. But I don't really expect a personal anecdote to be convincing.
>And I'm not even talking about the various hadiths, but I can give you the executive summary: hadiths a shit.
That's another topic entirely. There are Muslims who believe that anyone who doesn't follow the teachings of Hadiths is an Apostate, and there are other Muslims who disregard Hadtihs entirely (they're called Quranists) since they're the compilation of sayings attributed to Muhammad only collected at least 200 years after his death.
>>5625238 >>having a law system disregards it from being a religion >What are Jewish Laws >What was the Papal State
You shouldn't try to apply the modern notion of Separation of Church and State to distinguish whether past religious beliefs where religions or not. In many cases religious laws were literally the laws of the state.
>>5624612 > how can you say Iraq isn't a warzone country? Because it's officially not noted as one? The southern parts of Iraq are safe. Do you have any idea how big Iraq is?
Also let's not be typical western gays here now and focus one issues. Yes Iran has no tolerance for gays but shiites in general have caused less problems than sunnis. And sunni community openly discriminates shiites even here in Europe. I don't need them to continue their theological disagreements here. Turkey is REALLY bad example, it's basically secular country now as it wants to be part of EU. Why won't use actual sunni countries such as Saudi Arabia examples? You know, where the whole wahhabism ideology and shiite hatred spawns from.
Let me guess you're typical American "Muslim" from California who has no idea what happens in the rest of the world. You think that Muslim refugees from Middle East are same as your Muslim friends that grew up in USA. It's so easy to talk when you have the right to be atheist too.
>>5625281 >The southern parta of Iraq are safe I agree that Iraq is faring better than Syria, but the government is still struggling to survive. It can hardly focus on poor citizens who have lost their homes and livelihoods. Even if those displaced people moved to the South, they'll beliving in dire poverty. I can at least understand why some of them try to migrate to other countries where their immediate quality of life would be better.
Also, I wasn't trying to imply anything by my Sunni-Shiite comment. I've had Sunni and Shiite friends. I have nothing against Shiites in general, and am aware that most of the fuckery that's going on in the Middle East is due to Saudi Arabi speading its Wahabiism.
With regards to the refugees, I do agree that taking in fanatics is a terrible idea, and there should be better processing and documentation of refugees.
>>5625333 >It can hardly focus on poor citizens who have lost their homes and livelihoods. And this is why welfare states are responsible to pamper them? Sure, why won't all people from poor and corrupt countries go to tiny Nordic countries. Money grows out of the walls and people never have to work hard for the better society after all. This is why I hate leftists ideologies, they don't want people to better themselves and become successful, they just want to share poverty with everyone and make the poor even poorer. It never helps to migrate the problem somewhere else.
>>5622742 A fair portion of them will not even acknowledge you if you talk to them because you are not a part of their community. Their daughters are not allowed to play or hang out with other girls from the same school unless they share the same religion. Their religion teaches them to always lie about their intentions outside their homeland if it is for their namesakes greater good, and it is up to them how seriously they follow it.
So if they really want in the US then they can wait in line like everyone else and not be handed a job and place to live, but they have to follow our laws or face punishment like everyone else. No religion gets a free pass.
" Basically if I have to die to make this toxic religion become another harmless faith like christianity so be it."
I'm not Muslim, so I can't tell a lot about the religion. I've heard a lot about it from different sources, and from what I've gathered, it's pretty strict but probably not really different from other religions. Sure, fanatics are terrible, but almost every religion has them, so I'm pretty neutral towards Islam. As for the refugees, the country I live in stays away from accepting them, and I've heard of stories about refugees hurting or killing people who let them in, based on their sexuality or religion, I think, and that's horrible to say the least. However, I'm not the one to judge a large group of people based on their homeland or religion or social status, and the conditions these people have to live in should be improved. If my country does decide to take refugees in, I don't think I can do anything about it, so I'll stay neutral; same if it decides not to. I am pretty neutral on the matter, after all. Still, my living conditions won't allow me to take anyone in, so I won't volunteer. Might donate some clothes, though.
>>5625628 Sure, most Muslims living in America are pretty well integrated, but it's sort of impossible to say that the violence, terrorism, and repression in the Middle East are totally exogenous to a religious doctrine promulgated by a rapist warlord (compare to Christianity, promulgated by a socialist hippie who loved everyone).
I think it's fine to accept refugees if you do a very good job of integrating them, and clearly Western European countries struggle with that. The problem with Middle Eastern barbarity is not "intrinsic" to Islam ... in fact I think the majority of terrorists, rapist refugees, whatever are probably among some of the least knowledgeable Muslims when it comes to intellectual knowledge of the Korean and Islamic law. But Islam does provide a convenient narrative for economically marginalized or otherwise disaffected groups to seize upon as a post-hoc justification for violent action.
And personally I feel uncomfortable talking to religious people in general because if the topic of relationships happens to come up I'll probably feel very strongly compelled to lie to them.
>>5622742 We should round up anyone who's deity or deities don't align with the progressive culture we fought so hard to achieve and give them an ultimatum. Keep your religious nonsense to yourself or get out. I realize this makes me a pic related but I couldn't give a hoot if someone believed being gay is a sin but didn't try to preach it to others. As long as people keep that stuff to themselves I have no problem with them being religious
>>5627738 You're right, judging individual people is no good. However, being against mass migration is not about that. It's about judging loose immigration policies and people who encourage it.
>Might donate some clothes, though. Those people are not poor. They don't need your clothes. They don't even want them. Do you seriously think that a poor person can even afford paying thousands to a human trafficker to go to Germany? To even stay in Norway or Denmark, some of the most expensive countries? There's no point in volunteering as individual - the organizations supporting them get money from bakers and the rest of the money is your country's tax money. No one will stay in country like Romania because it's poor and there's no benefits. 100 000 of people are stuck in Russia and want to go to the Western neighbors because Russia doesn't give them special privileges or pretty much anything. People who welcome these "war victims" are just making things worse because you're encouraging to them to come based on lies. The point is NOT to help them. It's to make money on them, the organizations who "support" them are corrupt and the higher-ups of them get ridiculously high pay and bonuses while the people who actually work at asylum centers barely get anything.
The real poor conditions are somewhere like Lebanon refugee camps, because that's as far as the people who were actually in danger in Syria can go. People are starving there, meanwhile Iraqis in Finland whine because the food they are offered "tastes too bad".
>>5627931 People whine and complain about "le new atheism" and Richard Dawkins' latest inflammatory tweets and whatever, but being LGBT sort of drives it into you that there really isn't anything particularly bad at all about "new atheism", especially in comparison to the fact that there are countries where you (presumably) and I would get literally stoned to death on religious grounds for expressing our sexual preferences. Literally. Killed.
I don't understand why people think it's better to ostracize all Muslims as opposed to working towards Muslim assimilation.
Because the narrative of "Yes, most Muslims are sympathetic to extremism and can't coexist with multicultural western societies" is one that ISIS is actively trying to push for the sake of easier recruitment. It's harder to convince someone that identifies comfortably with their society to wage war against it, and it's hard to identify with a society that suspects you of being a terrorist based on your ethnicity or religious affiliation.
>>5628183 Excepts people don't suspect all of them being terrorists. At least in Europe. The anti-immigration and anti-Islam stances come from many other factors. Mostly people are against their own governments, media brainwashing etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGpEshDGVho A 16-year-old shouldn't be thinking about things like this in Western society, but sadly this is the situation where we're in now.
To an extent. Everyone fundamentally wants the same things, though. The difference is how they go about actualizing them, which is based on how they perceive their options. Media, peer groups, family, society overall helps to shape those perceived options.
It's extremely naive to think that the teachings of the Islamic faith are the primary influence on an individual's decision to sign up for terrorism/extremism.
>>5628236 Islamism offers a convenient unifying narrative and source of ex post facto rationalization. Ironically, those who are radicalized are usually NOT well versed in Islamic theology. But the fact that Islamic violence is, well, not completely exogenous to Islam itself should still be noted.
>>5628183 >with multicultural western societies We are not multicultural and we prefer it to stay that way. The multicultural meme is a lie. Even Merkel admitted it. It's great this world has different cultures and mixing them all together is just killing them.
For the exact same reasons I mentioned. Importing Muslims and integrating them into western culture is like depriving ISIS's guns of their bullets.
>>5628216 >People don't suspect them all of being terrorists.
It's a legitimate issue in the US, to the point where one of the likely presidential candidates is banking on that fear with some of his policies.
>At least in Europe.
I'll admit that I'm pretty ignorant to how things are being handled in Europe. I know that Germany is being criticized for having overly-relaxed immigration policies, which is apparently resulting in some widespread immigrant-related crime.
And hell, maybe Germany is right to be criticized. Maybe they aren't taking enough measures to ensure dangerous people aren't entering the country. There's a legitimate need to be cautious with immigration in general.
>>5628334 Well Trump is the only candidate that has openly criticized Europe's policies. And he was absolutely right: http://news.yahoo.com/sweden-plans-expel-80-000-asylum-seekers-minister-053106985.html
Not that the deport decisions matter anymore because their home countries aren't going to take them back. I hope this will go down in history as event where it's so easy to manipulate masses and their compassion to absolute chaos.
>>5628373 Those things all come back to theology, though. Of course you're not going to get mass radicalization in communities where violence is frowned upon. But the fact is, the prevailing Muslim school of thought since they invented arithmetic has been that the wisest people are the ones who can figure out the deepest and most faithful interpretation of the scriptures, and when you honestly go about that without deciding beforehand that you value nonviolence, you wind up with a pretty sick system of values. It's also a system of values that is hard to challenge because challenging it is so unpopular (often deadly) socially, but all those factors have their roots in the scriptures and the cultural decision to follow that scriptures wherever they lead.
>>5628410 Radicalization is complicated, the sort of Westerners who go and join ISIS might have, in a different era, gone and joined an anarchist or Communist movement or something of that sort. But, yeah, Islam is a part of it. There's a reason why you don't see, like, terrorism in the name of Jainism.
>>5628410 >It's also a system of values that is hard to challenge because challenging it is so unpopular (often deadly) socially
While I'd consider myself to be pretty fucking left-wing, this is an area where liberals are dropping the ball. Specifically, when you have acts of violence committed against people for criticizing Islam, or people that criticize cultural practices that take shape from the religion's scriptures.
Showing any sympathy towards acts of terrorism through victim-blaming, or otherwise refusing to hold Muslims to the same moral standards we do for other religions only indulges a dangerous kind of moral relativism.
>>5624612 >latest news from indonesia >netflix blocked in censorship row >gay students are banned from showing affection >certain areas are officially sharia enforced and gay people receive 100 lashes for engaging in gay sex Such a great country, truly the heart of democracy in the world. Now let's look in terms of muslim percentage >88% Oh my let's see some other countries >Afghanistan 99% >algeria 99% >Niger 98.3% Truly islam brings peace and development.
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