So /lgbt/, what is the actual rate of passing for transgender people? I can't find it anywhere, and it seems that SJWs are trying to get rid of the concept as a whole.
It depends on the age group. Start in teens I bet it is high. 30+ it is really low. I think I am the only one who even comes close. Wow I sound like a conceited asshole, but honestly I haven't met anyone my age who passes that didn't start as a teen.
I can't decide who I dislike more though. The ones who don't pass and are miserable or the ones who don't pass and think they do.
there are 4 major groups of dimorphism that produce passing
face, upper torso, voice and social features
since social stuff can be mostly learned that's not super relevant so we look to the bell curves for the first three
the probability that a male will fall into female dimorphism sufficiently strong enough for strong facial passing is about 20% and weak passing is 40% for an average of 30 %
this probability is similar for upper torso. so we have two 30% probabilities here
1/3 * 1/3 = 1/9 chance of passing upper torso and face wise combined.
upper torso can also be countered with good fashion but its quite hard
then I would say the chance of a male being able to produce a suitably passable voice is probably around 70%
so stealthable trannies are probably around 10% total
another perhaps 10% could pass fairly decently but can be read by perceptive folks
and then on it goes in terms of passability. I would say around 70% really dont have a shot of passing without surgical aid
now in reality trannies don't ALWAYS train socially and voice wise so the rate of passing is quite low perhaps 10% stealth and 15-20% passing.
I don't know of any solid numbers but assuming you are talking about stealth passing as an mtf to where you are almost never clocked and/or assumed to be born female?
The chances are in your favor if you start before 18. After that it becomes very derivative of your genetics. By 25 you'll have to have extremely amazing genetics, and only the rarest 1% can pass beyond that, and they will almost unanimously pass only as a transgender and not as AFAB. I can almost guarantee you that anyone proving they pass flawlessly at that age is absolutely bullshitting you and the first thing that comes into people's minds when seeing them out of the corner of their eye is "wow are they trans?"
I heard that sometimes when people get depression medication, they kill themselves because they finally had the motivation and energy to do it. That'd suck
My internal transphobia is greater than my empathy for one, and I consistently have been shit on by hons since I came out is two.
I get they are miserable. Yeah dysphoria makes me miserable too.
desu I've tried but they were pussy methods of hanging and cutting
I'm talkin about real an hero attempts liike jumping in front of a car/train/off a bridge or setting oneself of fire/shooting self
>tfw i was feeling way better before this fucking thread
what are the odds of passing when almost everyone says you will?
Yes, I do. Lots of transgendered women say they pass when it really that they get gendered female in public out of other people being nice to them. Everyone can tell they are trans even if they look female from certain angles.
The same as if no one said you would. What people say doesn't really matter desu
Its somewhat subjective and certainly there hasn't been actual research into the subject. If you're worried about if you'll pass or not just post a pic and people will give you (mostly) honest opinions.
In my personal experience I would say around half of FtMs end up passing, and like 1/10th of mtfs. In my entire life Ive met like two other passing mtfs, and one of them was a plastic surgery trainwreck.
well read the comments
the majority of people thinks she passes so...
Sadly this is the truth.
Also, by passing I mean "would be mistaken for a cis woman under any situation", not "I wear so much make-up that I barely look human anymore".
>thinking that you pass from a 2007 potato camera focused on a single area of the body at a time
Also note that nobody asked if he was female. They all already know that he is male. That's not to say he wouldn't pass if he ever transitioned on HRT, but rather that 4chan is predisposed and sometimes obsessive over liking guys that dress like girls.
> nobody asked if she was female
but she passes so who cares
it's fucking 4chan. these are where you are going to get the rawest opinions. there are literally no repercussions.
it's like saying nigger for the first time. it's gr8 because you know you won't face consequences
It's 4chan, but these are people's lives asking for help, which is partially their fault yeah but 4chan's opinion of "yeah you look like a girl" from a blurry face shot is hardly going to mean shit when you walk outside presenting as female. And again, I never said he wouldn't pass if he ever transitioned on HRT.
Is it just me or do trans people on /lgbt/ in general pass far better than the ones you find in other places?
eg my college campus is filled to the brim with pig disgusting hons and brahs who have "trans pride" and don't even bother making an effort to pass. Places like the trans subboards on leddit aren't much different and don't even get me started on susans.org and the like where everyone is over 40 and at least 6'4 with beardshadow that looks and feels like fucking sandpaper.
The passing thread is a bad example, because plenty of us can pass from a good camera angle, make-up, and lighting. Not to mention you can't tell how they sound, and a guy voice will giveaway even the most convincingly female-looking tranny.
I'd say the 10% figure is pretty accurate, overall. Probably about 10% of MtFs are able to pass as convincingly cis women in day-to-day life. It's more like 60% of FtMs that can do it, because they tend to start younger, testosterone gives you some unmistakably male features (facial hair and man voice are very easy to get, and a massive amount of passing), and men in general tend to have less-strict standard of appearance. Hell, I think men in general are much more diverse in appearance than women. Women look fairly similar overall, while men can look like aliens between each-other.
tl;dr - mtfs barely pass, ftms mostly pass, the world is round
/lgbt/ hugboxes a little bit, but no where as bad as reddit does.
I don't get the hons I see on reddit. All these 30-40+ mtfs who decide to transition with bad wigs and chiseled jaws, then get hrt and go out in public? Like, do they have absolutely no social awareness at all, can they not tell that they are acting completely like a fetishist? Still, it's not even as bad as the hons on legbutts.
I guess I just can't fathom how anyone who comes out in their 30-40s+ had authentic trans feelings. It just seems like they just don't have any social awareness whatsoever and are going through a midlife crisis or something...
All I can say is that hons make me nervous as a young person who can't transition until I go to college
I wish I didn't agree with you. I really wish I didn't.
I would explain my traumatic life, but it does get old trying to honestly explain why I didn't transition young.
41 year old hon here.
Hons make me nervous too. This is like one of the only safe places from them. I love you mean people for chasing them away, but it does hurt my feelings as I totally think I am just delusional and actually one of them.
I already have a little album of people that kinda look like me from /r/transitiontimelines and any other places I can find
I just wish they would update them at least to 2 years, and even past a little. I know when people pass they basically drop away from lgbt stuff, but going on /r/transitiontimelines gets tiring when all the timelines you can find are either <6 months or pre-hormones (wtf)
Even some of those in the album don't pass to me, so if these are people that are supposed to be "passing" it still makes me nervous.
I dunno, I can fathom that someone in their 30s or 40s could have suppressed their feelings. I mean, what else could they do about them? The odds of getting onto HRT back then were next-to-zero.
But yeah, a good number of hons I've seen in real life are clearly either fetishists, or they've seen it as a means of invigorating their life (mid-life crisis). Of those I've seen, there were a few that didn't even get on hormones. They just wore really sexual clothes (leotards, tight skirts/shirts, fucking latex), and put on hideous amounts of makeup. It was when (at 16) I was forced to go to a trans group for counseling (per the doctor's request). Honestly couldn't make eye-contact with the loons.
I've seen the people on reddit in their 40s that just talk about "well I went on hormones for a month, and decided I'd go full-time outside as a woman". Like, they go on about ~confidence~ and how they totally pass (when really they're just getting courteous people calling them 'she' because they feel awkward).
Do these people even feel fucking dysphoria? (And no, "social" dysphoria does not count. Don't make shit up)
At least you're self-aware. Honestly, I think some people just didn't have dysphoria bad enough to transition. I used to have really bad dysphoria, but when I decided to transition in college, it kinda went away and was replaced with an apathetic depression with occasional really dysphoric months that's kind of my personality now :/
I would get at a point where I would start feeling really nervous if I was actually "trans enough", and it would basically force me to go through my feelings and re-evaluate if I was actually trans, and then the nervousness would go away for a couple of months....
basically, if you're at the point that you can work through these feelings every time you get them, I think you shouldn't be worried about if you are deluded or not.
The late transitioner at my support group outright says she has never had dysphoria and it started as a fetish. She says it turned her trans. She found a company with a good non discrimination policy and has a company stuck.
She is 6'2 before putting on 5 inch heels. Brags about going to the ladies room. Is constantly out campaigning for trans rights.
I feel sad for anybody who was trans in the past... it was basically just kill yourself or live with it. Sometimes I think that if I had been born in like the roman era or something I would have just killed myself after a while.
But if you're 40, you've already wasted half your life so you probably don't care about society that much and just want to express your feelings...
I guess I'm just kind of frustrated that I'm sitting here, trans and wanting to transition but I can't because I go to a religious high school. I hate how since the religious institution has basically become the entire community, the only way to actually transition for me is to go to college and cut all ties to the church and hope no one find out
I understand what you mean.
I won't deny this is a real struggle. No matter how much I hear I pass I often feel not good enough.
Is that truth or is it dysphoria.
When I don't feel dysphoria am I just in a delusional state.
This is confusing.
>Is constantly out campaigning for trans rights
So this is why everyone on Earth hates us, and we're the shittiest minority to be?
I care about not being homeless and looked at like a monster. My identity is so important to me. I want people to like me. I want to fit in as female. That was the whole point of transitioning.
I don't understand any other reason to do it.
I agree. After the incident with the FTM where she just let the guy flip out on me I am done with that group.
Indeed it is.
I haven't totally rid myself of dysphoria, but I hope to. I have only been on hrt 8 months.
>After the incident with the FTM where she just let the guy flip out on me
>>After the incident with the FTM where she just let the guy flip out on me
Yeah, because the people who actually pass just disappear into semi-stealth, unless they're famous or they've already made being trans
I would say that everybody wants to fit and be accepted into society, transitioning is also to rid you of dysphoria and allow you to grow as a human being.
Sometimes it feels like I want to improve myself and get better, but I can't because I can't transition, so right now my life is to just wait for transition to start and post of legbutts, and then I can actually start improving my image, I guess. Freshman year in college will be fun to go through during puberty .__.
also >>frogtext pls
I decided to go to a trans support group Monday. One of the facilitators was ftm. He is very far along in transition.
They brought up the topic of questions you hate. I said I hate the question when did you know cause sometimes people really want to know your narrative and are looking to judge you.
The guy says. Right there are no bad narratives.
I joke. Yes there are. Say if you tell everyone you became trans from a bee sting. The guy flips out. He gets very angry and I was honestly scared. The guy stormed out of the room and went outside. Another ftm and a mtf follow him. I knew the guy, but not the girl.
I just kinda sat there and didn't know what to do. I just felt treated in a way I hadn't in a long time. Really afraid and I had a pretty bad panic attack. I was afraid to leave while he was out there so I had to sit there while he had his violent steroid rage.
He finally came in and sat right next to me again and I just ran out. I drove around for a bit and finally got through to a friend who let me come have a breakdown at her house. I was shaking and crying. I have never fealt like this before.
I was just brought to tears. I totally lost control and had a panic attack. I still feel shitty from it.
That and the giant hon have really just made me never want to go back.
Houston is hard. This is hon city.
> he got mad
is that it? what a fuckin let down story. r.i.p i thought he like threw you or something
you have to read situations better. at all lbgt events you know how they feel about the narrative that not everyone is doing it for the right reasons.
wow, I've heard that going on T makes you more prone to violence, but not that bad.
To me, lgbt groups (at least for trans people) feels like an initial group of decent people, but as trans people start passing and dropping out of the group, all the people who are left are SJW who have made it their personal vendetta or identity to lgbt, and the non-passing trannies who need constant validation since they can't pass or something. Repeat ad naseum until you get a distilled group of the worst lgbt people.
Mind you i've never gone to a lgbt group cause i'm in the closet so far it's snowing, but that's what it seems to be the case at least some of the time.
I think there might be something to that. I hadn't been back to that group for months, I just felt like it. The SJW's are so mean. They really hate me too.
I argued with this guy Jef with one f who is obsessed with gamer gate and omg they were mean. Attacking me on facebook until I put everything on private for like 3 months.
They are the shittiest people of all time.
>trannies don't ALWAYS train socially
This is whats gonna hit a lot of you in the ass, people, especially cis girls, know when they are talking to someone who hasn't quite lived a similar life and hasn't had the same experiences.
The only way for them not to smell that on you is time and experience as a passable girl because your personality reflects who you are and where you've been.
And I'm not even going into female hierarchy stuff which is a whole other ball game for attractive girls but is a hell of a lot of fun for smart and pretty girls who can navigate it.
I'd say closer to 1-2% fully get to that point.
It isn't that hard. You just have to embrace it. Only one of them knew I was trans. They the others didn't come off as just being nice to me.
Also tell me I am pretty you fuckers. I need validation.
> those eyes
> that make up
stop stop stop stop
chill with the god damn make up. is that skin or crayola?
i feel like without it you could be pretty fkn passable.
i'd say 60% of people would pass you tho despite all of this. crazy how much make up bitches wear these days
you make snow look flesh colored
don't get me wrong I PERSONALLY think you pass. people that are trans themselves might notice but you're fine
but i could pick you out of your friends every time.
just saying you could improve that's all. i think the dead eyes just comes from poor lighting
I'm guessing the most left, although to be honest, it could be any one of you
Thanks for your non hug boxing opinion.
Dont worry, just because you don't completely pass dosent mean you look like a hon train wreck, you look pretty good actually, i dont think people would be embarrassed to be asociated with you
People are always against hug boxing but never talk about the opposite, stab boxing. 4chan seems to be the only place it happens. Don't just take something as fact because they were being brutal about it.
>mfw arguing over a noisy-as-fuck picture that only shows the face
btw I only clocked you after looking over the picture several times, normally hons don't pass with your face shape, as it's masculine.
Jesus people seem catty today. If you want a decent opinion, take a decent opinion with a decent camera. Phone lenses fuck up the fov and all phone sensors are trash
>treatment for gender identity disorder is gender "transition" and sex "reassignment" which in reality is impossible and would be more accurately described as simply stuffing your body with artificial hormones and mutilating yourself
>this only reinforces the delusion and adds co morbid disorders like body dysmorphia, OCD and depression
>most people in the "community" are obsessed with their appearance and how well they're able to deceive the public into thinking that they're real women
>"passing" is highly unlikely for most cases and those that fail either entrench themselves further in the delusion or commit suicide
Explain to me how this "treatment" isn't only exacerbating your mental illness.
I thought I've seen your photos on reddit, but I'm too lazy to find anything. I might be remembering someone else, because I didn't think they passed all that well.
However, you actually pass really, really well, especially for someone who's older than 30. Congrats I guess?
>occasionally get gendered as a woman in boymode
>this happened more than a few times at my old job when i had short hair and wore a baggy man's uniform
>once it was in a food line with people 2 different people that were looking straight at me from 3ft away
>occasionally get weird looks from men in the men's bathroom
>one older man paused and walked out once he saw me
Do I pass?
25 and scared as shit about passing. I just started talking to a therapist for a month and finally broke down to try getting mones off the web. If I end up looking like you I'd be happy.
I understand the sentiment, but if you don't pass it is hard to have a normal life with a good job.
I am sure you will be fine. I looked so terrible before transition. If hrt can do this for me it can work for you too.
Attitude is most important, then voice. I worked on voice before really ever thinking about my appearance.
I worked on it in small bits. When I practiced I would sit with perfect posture. Back strait with feet planted on the floor. I would visualize where my voice what resonating. You slowly try to raise that point higher and higher up to your throat raising your pitch.
Once you have pitch though you don't want to quit. Just talking out of your throat or nasally isn't really passing. I would describe how I do it is I moved where I produce my voice as up in my throat but kinda throw it back down into my chest to create resonance and not sound fake or have that trans gravely voice.
Then practice practice practice.
well because i only want to in the first order. i'm not particularly feminine otherwise so my personality does not match up with my physical desire. this is the burden of the fetishist.
for the legitimate transwoman, transition is better across the board. for me, i would be a freak among regular society and a freak among extended society
I actually can pass off as an African village woman, out in Hawaii I passed 100% haha
On the mainland with effort and the right clothing I can get 70% with black folks and white queer people clocking me the most.
>as a young person who can't transition until I go to college
Be a man and just transition now. Grow some balls dude.
I just tell everyone my black foster dad molested me as a preschooler and now im a white woman who craves the bbc.
tfw turning 20 this June and want a sex change but not sure if I would pass. My face is not that masculine (my beard makes it somewhat) but I have a deepish voice. My upper torso haa always been somewhat broad even when I was at my lightest of 140.
This sucks because I was offered a sex change when I was 5 years old and I was too scared to take it.
I couldn't sleep. I think this thread broke my mind. I look horrible. I am going to kill myself very soon.
I feel like there is no point. Even being the prettiest hon in the world doesn't change the fact I suck.
I was feeling so confident for several weeks.
I feel impending doom.
>This sucks because I was offered a sex change when I was 5 years old and I was too scared to take it.
Need someone to chat with?
I'm trans too so I know what you're going through.
>>5622549 here again. I think I am just going to go for it and kill myself if it doesn't work out well. I have nothing to live for anyways. There is always surgery to fix my features, and I can always be mute if either I am unable to have a passable voice or surgery to alter the pitch does not have a good effect. Tfw can't do anything about my torso though. I will just muddle through and find fashionable options.
Do you have a Steam account?
If you do, my Steam name is BanAnnah. I'm online now if you still need to chat.
I don't have one sorry. Maybe I should try to sleep. This is just one of those times where like time itself is something I am having to endure. The minutes are just going by so slowly
Well there is your problem right there! You clearly don't play enough video games.
They are the best form of escapism you know. Even better than anime.
>>5622604 once again... Fucking hell I am conflicted. I really really want this, and have ever since I was really young. I don't know if I could ever recover from it if I ended up looking awful or something went wrong.
Not at all! I'll still be up a little while longer at least.
So have any hobbies then? Even like, real, non-nerdy NEETish ones are fine.
The Monday group is at Grace Lutheran church.
There is a Wednesday group at Montrose center. That group tends to be younger, There is also an under 18 group at Montrose center.
Don't let me dissuade you. I have met some nice people at these groups, but honesly they don't help me too much. I wouldn't recommend the Monday group to young people honestly.
I think the Montrose center is a great place for all kinds of support. If you really need to talk to someone they will help you.
I might go. Might.
I know this may sound terrible, but I honestly hate a lot of Trans people. Well, desu I've never met one irl. I'm terrified of the psychopaths I've seen online in the community, and I don't want to witness that shit first-hand.
Still, I need to get me some new friends. I lost everyone who was close to me when the news of my trans-ness leaked. I want friends who can understand what I'm going through.
Not everyone is a psycho. I don't think I am. There are some nice people. I agree that many trans are toxic. We are often traumatized people.
In fact omg there is an actual true trans therapy group starting based around trauma. It is legit. It will be run by two doctors. One is trans. I would really recommend you check it out. Dr cole and Dr tran. They seem nice. I didn't pick up the info but I hope it starts soon. I don't think they are going to let hons in. They are serious.
And you don't sound like a psycho. You seem pretty cool desu. Very knowledgeable about the community.
However, just so you know, if we ever happen to attend the same t-group and the hons try to get us, I'm using you as a human shield.
Yeah I pretty excited about it.
lol you may use me as a human shield. In fact the groups aren't all bad. In fact a person I met a group noticed me on facebook super early and could tell I am sad. She is taking me to lunch at the galleria.
Also, just because you aren't a hon doesn't mean you aren't a little crazy. Nikki Araguz is pretty crazy, but shit she is awesome and I love her.
They realized that the Houston trans scene has gone to shit with crazy hons and tumbler ftm's. The only way to keep them out is an invite only group run by actual professionals that use real criteria.
Thank God. The sad part is they have been seeking members for 4 months and haven't found 6 in Houston yet. I know I am in, but that is all I know.
If they could issue me a referral letter for SRS I'd leave this red tape european hellhole in a heartbeat and join...
Here you mustn't be trutrans to even get hormones prescribed it seems.
I've been trying 3 fucking years to get one...
Though I suppose for informed consent I'd need to be a citizen or something? Probably couldn't even get a greencard.
Almost nobody irl is this nice. If people think you look like a man they will at least glare at you disapprovingly and at worst physically harass you.
Check this out https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bXn1xavynj8
Its kind of sjw-y but this is what people are like to trannies who don't pass. The catch is, she's not even trans. Just a really tall / large cis girl.
Wow, what a drugged up mess edited that video? I can barely watch it like that.
I just can't imagine thats really what happens to trannies in the majority of the US. I mean look where's she's at, that's like the most degenerate area ever from the looks of it.
>black German tranny
Now that's what I'd call exotic. I'm luckily white.
I love when people pull numbers out of their ass.. Mind, I'm not saying the explanation is shit.. it's not, it's actually fairly decent (at least the first portion of it it) but those numbers have absolutely no backing and, because of that, are meaningless.
You might be right when it comes to smaller cities, especially towns that have less than 50k people or that live outside metropolitan areas. However when you're in a city like Seattle or Portland people will go out of their way not to offend you.
And I've seen that video before, it undoubtedly will horrify taller trannies.
That looks like the trashiest most disgusting normie cesspool in the country.
It's also hilariously pathetic to see landwhales try to start shit and then haul their lard asses out of there.
Don't have to pass but just can't be fetish based I guess. I would be pissed if they let a fetishist in. It is traumatic to people who aren't and this is based around dealing with trauma.
Every day of transition is kinda traumatic.
You're only going by the ones the trans people you've clocked :3
(Not the person you were originally replying to)
After 1 year on HRT (started early 20s), minor FFS, 5 sessions of laser, and 70 hours of electrolysis, reeeealllly heavy makeup remains my only option if I want to pass 100% as I still have visible facial hair immediately after shaving. Sometimes it isn't just a bad fashion choice; by the time I'm done facial hair removal will have taken 3-4 years.