>>5538625 I dont know actually. Healthcare wont cover a DNA test. I might be for all I know. All I know is that I'm not the chimeric variety (explained in prior post) I think I'm just basically either the estrogenized (too much estrogen in womb) or masculinized (too much testosterone in womb). Babies who are intersex tend to default to female genitalia but genetically XY and usually hit male puberty. (which is what I did)
>>5538765 I think so too, but i feel like intersex conditions prove the validity of transsexualism. That a person with a completely ambiguous body, still has a 'brain sex' and still knows what gender they are
>>5538711 idk its weird but above where the clitoris is supposed to be. there's nothing there, but there's stuff under the skin I can feel. Imagine if your dick was tucked up under your skin and you had to rub that out.
>>5538727 I date chicks. Love chicks. idk, most of them are fascinated and find me nonthreatening. I also really dont have much of a libido (medication. prior to that, I had a pretty good one)
>>5538736 girl clothes dont fit me, and I just look like a really gay guy when I wear them. was called a girl pretty much until jr high, which is when I hit male puberty and then blam. everyone was confused as to why I had a girl name.
>>5538742 idk. I dont feel dysphoric at all, but my other friend who's intersexed (bonded over the same condition) hated it because it nearly killed him because he was sick so often and was basically septic on/off.
imo? if you dont have a bona-fide pre-existing medical condition, then you're not intersexed.
>>5538787 idk if it's really brain sex. It's more along the lines of "this thing is actively hurting me so I need to change it before it kills me"
I'm really fucked up because of it. not mentally, medically. Intersex is a medical condition, not a mental one.
A person with a ambiguous body will either want to change into either gender because they made the choice to do so. Some intersex people purposely keep their ambiguous genitals and remain as an androgynous person because that's what makes them comfortable.
trans people need to stop trying to validate themselves and just argue that it's their freedom, their choice to change the way they want to be. People with cosmetic plastic surgery change themselves to be prettier, carnival freaks like Lizard Man purposefully alter their bodies to look more like a lizard guy. So transpeople have the same right to do what they want with their bodies. It hurts no one.
hey OP i'm intersex and trans in i made myself trans due to family pressure of being assigned male at birth that i should continue to be. weird sorta vag-penis, ovotestes, get periods, developed small boobs, body of a teenage girl, voice didn't break properly etc. took testosterone for years to be what they wanted. now i essentially have to transition mtf. made myself a freak.
you sound really secure in your identity, that's amazing! for me intersex is/was hell. what was your childhood and teens like? did you know you were intersex growing up? was there shame and questioning who or what you were? what was school like? i never really get the chance to talk to other intersex people barring a few other trans with kleinfelters.
To be fair, I think a good number of trans people themselves recognize the brain thing is bullshit and just go along with it because they know they need to for the sake of getting a doctor to sign off on their hormones and surgeries.
>>5538909 You can be born as the wrong SEX, gender is the expression of SEX and is a social construct. If you were born a male and feel you are a female then you were born as the wrong SEX and to correct this you can take hormones and get surgery to align your SEX with the one you feel you are, you also take upon the typical GENDER attributes of the GENDER that society has created to go along with the SEX you want to be
I sexually Identify as Donald Trump. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of deporting disgusting foreigners from the United States. People say to me that a person being Donald Trump is Impossible and I’m fucking retarded but I don’t care, I’m beautiful. I’m having a plastic surgeon install a toupee, a small loan of a million dollars and great relations with Putin on my body. From now on I want you guys to call me “Donald” and respect my right to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. If you can’t accept me you’re a Trumpophobe and need to check your Trump privilege. Thank you for being so understanding. 2 commentsshare
>>5538829 >idk if it's really brain sex. It's more along the lines of "this thing is actively hurting me so I need to change it before it kills me" >I'm really fucked up because of it. not mentally, medically. Intersex is a medical condition, not a mental one.
So you know you're a straight man even though you have a vagina? Doesn't that at least lean towards the theory of your brain knowing what gender or sex you are supposed to be, regardless of your physical body?
Basically with me, my parents just denied it. I mean.. I basically look like a dude and they still call me "she". so that's probably why I really wasnt affected much. Now that I think of it, I may actually have been mutilated at birth. Not sure though.. because no scarring. at least.. not that I know of.
Basically growing up I kinda got the best of both worlds... I looked completely androgynous until about mid jr high (jr high here is 3 years and highschool is 3 as well) I was a pretty popular in highschool, people thought I was a freak in jr. high, but they were also terrified of me for some reason.
idk, I just never really interacted with many people growing up and was kinda just... in my own little world. Most of my issues stem from my parents and their religion actually. they wouldnt let me listen to "nonchristian" music or have "nonchristian" friends. Or friends who werent white. so.. I kinda had other things to distract myself with. I also didnt know trans people existed and that I could request a pronoun.
I actually didnt know this until probably 6 years ago after I graduated college. LOL. I would just sorta be like "lol whatever man" to whoever would use whatever pronouns.
I actually never really started getting nervous about going into restrooms either until tumblr became pretty spotlight. Just the thought of people thinking I'm trans and in the wrong bathroom scares me.
idk, I've got weird experiences in that they're non experiences. But I chock that up to growing up in the 90's - '00s and people didnt really know what any of that was.
>>5538882 aw thankyou! I've had a lot of people try to date me and they're always upset when I tell them I'm taken. XD
>>5538883 a dog is a four legged creature with fur. obviously it's a cat. duh!
there should be NO debate as to transsexualism and intersex. One is mental, the other is absolute physical and a medical condition. It's the difference between thinking you're a furry and having a dog sewn to your face.
>>5539018 idk man I just masturbate and use my hands with my partners. (gf is asexual)
>>5539034 I want to punch them. usually it's tumblrites that say they're trans without doing anything. HI . IM A TRANSMAN! EXCEPT I DONT HAVE DYSPHORIA, OR WANT TO CHANGE MY BODY. OR GO ON HORMONES. BUT PLZ USE MALE PRONOUNS EVEN THOUGH I'M A HEINOUS BITCH.
>>5539035 idk I like chicks. I dont really care about my body. We're all brains floating in a meatsack anyway.
>>5539099 actually I was doing that. I'm not kidding. also helping gf cook and drinking alcohol.
>>5539196 I was thinking about going into porn because I'm a bunch of people's fetish.
>>5539049 Ah, right. How does that work with, say, an asexual FtM? How is it a fetish if there's no sexual component involved, and the transition is undertaken to relieve dysphoria related to the person's original physical body? AGP =/= every trans person.
>>5539216 we're all delusional to believe we're safe in our homes or that cars wont kill us.
definition of delusion aside..
you cannot say you're something that you just physically arent. Intersex is medical. Transsexualism is mental. There's nothing wrong with either.
a trans person is someone who was not born intersexed, but is a person who believes they were born in the wrong body, etc.
an intersexed person is a person who was born with a medical condition that is caused by environmental or genetic oopsies.
an intersexed person can be trans. totally. but a trans person cannot be intersexed unless they were born intersexed.
its kinda like a trans person cant be cis, no matter how hard they try. (which I fucking hate the word "cis" for that reason. its basically saying that you have to be in the closet to be a "real man/woman")
but yeah. I dont consider myself trans. But I've been lopped into the group automatically, I feel 50/50 about that.. because I cant really relate to a lot of things trans people face.
>>5539309 I have stupid hormone fluctuations, and I've hypothesized I'm probably one ovary one teste or something weird along those lines.
once again, lack of medical insurance has been my bane. I'm a lot better now than I was though, so I may not need to be cut open for any reason.
have a vagina. probably an inner dick (there's something under the skin in the front. I get no sexual pleasure from the vagina) I get periods, but that's what kills me. I'll have one and then I'll be sick for 3 months. It'll make me unable to eat things properly and its fucking crippling pain. Symptoms seem to line up with the condition of having the inner lining of the uterus form in weird locations like the abdominal cavity, the bladder, etc. It's been a lot better lately though, so I'm happy with that. I got really bad malnutrition that ate up my teeth and probably gave me scurvy. fml
>>5539347 It was more irl related experiences with friends who were on tumblr. I've actually not wanted to make new friends because of that lately. My best friend is intersexed and his partner is trans. A lot of people latch onto that and fetishize it while trying to emulate it.. so I've been kinda laying low on the friend front for a while.
I dont feel dysphoric, oddly enough. I think it's related to my opinion of the physical world. (I take medication for dissociation, which is unrelated to being intersexed and may be related to severe malnutrition.) I mean.. we're all just brains in a meat jar.. how we observe the world is through what we think and feel.. if we change what we think and what we feel, there's no use in changing the physical world. (within reason of course)
>>5539343 anon i really hope you can get some medical insight soon. endometriosis can be very dangerous and painful, if that is what you're actually experiencing. i'm glad you're feeling better lately, i hope things continue to be good and that you can get some proper medical attention soon.
>>5539393 Thats what I'm hoping. I'm just scared that they'll need to cut me open and mess me up. I like having my androgynous looks, and if they have to remove whatever is causing my testosterone, I dont want to lose that. It'd be like taking away my manhood and replacing it with a fake alternative.
then again, I should probably get tested for endometriosis... I dont want it to lead to the death of me.
I just dont want people essentially neutering me. it's along the lines of.. "hey! your dick makes you feel sick sometimes, lets remove it and replace it with pills!" I'd want to rip their face off. but at the same time I know that it's better for me. I'm just scared of finding out if I need to have a part of me removed and replaced with hormone therapy. it scares the shit out of me.
I think there's a thing such as an "unwilling" transperson.. or just calling it bodily mutilation really. Like if someone had a botched circumcision and then was made a vagina.. thats completely unwilling and considered bodily mutilation. But they qualify as trans because they dont fit with their reassigned gender.
Just like an intersexed person can feel that they dont fit with their assigned gender.
>>5539197 Dualist, please leave. The mind is in the meat, the brain is meat, you are meat, your experiences are meat experiences. There is no mental process that is not physical, and there's been identification of intersexuality in the neurology of trans people. They just aren't as systemic as someone like OP.
>>5539435 i understand that fear to an extent. i'm FTM and before i learned that trans men existed i was terrified of telling anyone about my dysphoria -- my doctors, therapists, parents, etc. i thought that they would cure my dysphoria by making me do something or take something that would make me happy with my female body. that was a horrifying thought. even though i didn't know what my feelings about my gender meant, i knew that they were essential to who i was as a person and that i wouldn't be the same if they were to be magically cured.
anyway, point being that your fear is understandable. but luckily you're an adult and you can advocate for your own body and your own treatment. i don't know where you live, but the medical community is learning more and more about intersex conditions, and there is more and more activism happening around the rights of intersex patients. there are lots of people out there dealing with intersex conditions in ways that affirm their gender and choices about their bodies. i hope you can overcome your fear some day and get to a place where you're happy AND healthy anon.
Just because all mental processes are functions of the brain doesn't mean all mental problems are neurological problems. I'm going to try to clarify this claim I'm making with an analogy:
>Computer programs are functions of physical computers but can also be considered as abstract entities in themselves >A physical computer can have physical problems that cause you to not be able to play minesweeper one day >A physical computer can instead have no physical problems but you could still end up having your minesweeper game disrupted by a malicious program that closes out minesweeper.exe five seconds after each time you start to play it >Technically the second case could be considered a "physical" problem in the sense that programs are ultimately based in the physical computer, but in practice, it's impossible to deeply understand and deal with that sort of problem on a physical level, yet absolutely possible to understand and deal with that sort of problem on the abstract level of program space as its own world distinct from the physical circuitry its abstracted from
Analogies aside, if someone has a problem that can be solved by having someone else talk to them and encouraging them to change their thinking patterns and behavior, then that should probably be recognized as a distinct sort of problem than the sort like ALS or Parkinson's Disease where you definitely cannot improve your situation in significant ways through talk therapy.
"Transsexualism" is really just a label for "people who decide to pursue hormone treatments and surgeries to make themselves more like the opposite sex." You can change what people decide to do by talking to them in some cases. You can't make someone's ALS go away by talking to them.
>>5539390 >>5539606 Wow, thanks - you just solved my whole life! I wonder, though, why the last 10 or so years of on-and-off talk therapy did nothing to "treat" my nasty trans disease? How much more talk therapy do I need to "improve my situation" to the point where I don't experience dysphoria to the extent that it greatly interferes with my life? I'm perfectly willing to admit that I'm mentally ill, and maybe in 50 years we'll have an actual way to "treat" trans people (who want to have it done to them) without having them transition, but that treatment just doesn't exist right now. The treatment is, generally, therapy + hormones and/or surgery.
Have you considered you might be deciding on some level, consciously or unconsciously, to fuel the emotional fire of the "gender dysphoria" because it justifies you getting the hormones and/or surgery you want?
>>5539755 I'm not sure how you would know you're trans if you don't have dysphoria, so i would assume they weren't really trans. i take it you aren't a fan of trans people. I'm amazed you don't have body dysphoria though, How supportive were people in your life?
>>5539748 No; the dysphoria came long before I knew that being trans was even a "thing," and loooong before I knew anything about hormones and surgery. I'd never in a million years want to put myself through a major, painful surgery just for funsies.
>>5539802 I don't get that one either. It just seems like a Tumblrina special snowflake thing to me.
>>5539813 How I feel about transpeople is that.. they should do whatever they want to do without trying to be like tumblr.
that being said.. I know someone who basically just wanted to be androgynous coerced into getting surgery and hormone treatment.. as soon as they got away from the shitty friend circle, they got out of the mentality of agreeing with everyone around them that they had dysphoria.
idk.. I think you should do what you want to do.. but a lot of times people are wishy washy and let others push them around. I cant speak for anyone, but if I see red flags, I'll point it out and I'll be suspicious.
thats my thought on the matter.
The people in my life were insanely supportive minus my parents. .. but.. mind you.. my issues growing up werent related to gender identity or anything like that.. it was related to the fact that my parents were really conservative christians who were insane. It didnt matter that I liked chicks, they wouldnt let me listen to anything but christian music.. it's like putting a hamster inside a cage inside a cage inside a cage.. you're only focused on getting out of that first layer. for me.. it was having normal friends and having the freedom to partake in normal society by watching tv and listening to the radio.
>why would you want hormones in the first place? if it wasn't gender dysphoria?
I think there's more than one reason, but two big ones are probably:
1) As a fetish 2) As a "nuclear option" solution, where you come up with a course of action that involves completely annihilating your old self and creating an exciting new life as a member of the opposite sex
#2 can be seen as a type of manifestation for suicidal urges. In both cases there's a sense of everything riding on this extreme solution that has too high a cost for most others to even consider seriously. Rather than the high cost being a deterrent though, it becomes another selling point to the pre-transition person who sees the extreme negatives as evidence of the solution's power as a "nuclear option." Most people won't even consider it because it's overkill, so it's the perfect solution for the pre-transition person to pursue since it provides closure to their open ended anxiety about life in general by giving them the absolute certainty of either solving their problem or killing themselves in the process.
>>5539843 To be fair it seems like the transpeople you're talking to are straight women who want to be interesting, and try to use intersex people as an accessory. Most transsexuals just want to transition as early as possible, then forget about it and live life as normal as possible.
Also, this is flawed because transsexuals experience dysphoria as early as they can remember, i don't remember the last time a 4 year old had a crossdressing fetish, or the last time a 4 year old wanted to drop the wife and kids and start over as a woman
>>5539918 Cool style. What ya making. My wife is intersex too and so is her little cousin. I guess maybe it runs in the family? Do you feel like it manifests any personally traits that intersex people may share(which I know it carts wildly person to person) They are both huge fujoshi and also into gore stuff so I wonder if that's a common trait. Also they both have like border line personality disorder or have weird manipulative patterns.
>i don't remember the last time a 4 year old had a crossdressing fetish
It's not necessarily a crossdressing fetish. A 4 year old could have a dream where they're transformed into a girl and have to deal with their teacher and mom reacting to their change. They might then wake up and feel extremely embarrassed but also compelled by the intensity of the experience to continue dwelling on it for months or even years after. Eventually as they go through puberty, they might then start masturbating to fantasies and supporting media involving themes of either feminization or femininity in general, which could coalesce into an identification with the transgender label and an at least partially self-fueling "dysphoria" over not having their sex transformation fantasy fulfilled.
>>5539972 5' 2" probably due to malnourishment though. I hit girl puberty in probably 2nd grade and then guy puberty in about jr high. I got really sick starting in about 8th grade and on up, so I dont think I had a chance to grow much. everyone else in my family is a lot taller than me.
hell. I once dropped down to 87. though I usually try to keep myself at about 98-100 ish. I have a hard time keeping weight on me. I'm really active but also have food anxiety due to getting sick a lot.
So one concept basically unique to women is stone butch lesbianism, where they straight up want nothing happening with their own genitalia. What you see there is a sense of contempt for the vulnerability of being female ("vulnerability" is a good word choice for this topic; you can make the linguistic connection between vulva and vulnerable, where both deal with an opening someone or something else fills). If anything's fetishized in that case, it's the perceived advantage in power dynamics afforded to masculinity.
>>5540007 there's people who's fetish is to look at feet. There's women who get off to wearing mens clothes. Hell. look at old movies where a woman would grab a mens business suit and wear it and imagine what it would be like to be a man... the thing is.. I think the fetish isnt about wearing the opposite gender's clothes.. I think its about breaking norms and doing something devious. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of women out there who try to look like men because its their fetish. the thing is.. they dont stand out. there's a big difference between girl clothes and guy clothes. fuck. I know this because I cant wear girl clothes because of how they're shaped. LOL.
>>5540015 What about feminine ftms? Or transgender people who hold no sexual feelings towards it at all, which is most of them. Dysphoria is not like a day dream where I wished I was a girl as a kid. It was, I barely understood I was a male until puberty
>>5539991 But you just said the opposite. Regardless, it's ridiculous to say that children who can't experience sexual pleasure would have a fetish for becoming the opposite sex. You also can't explain how asexual/non-sexual transgender people would have a fetish either without whatever contrived nonsense reasoning you come up with. Not to mention in the case of MtFs, taking hormones would be counter-productive to whatever "fetish" when hrt would nuke their libido and make their genitals useless. Your naive theory doesn't stand up at all to the mountains of evidence and experiences of actual people with gender dysphoria.
First I don't think anyone is saying that all transexuals are just enacting a fetishes and that dyssphoria isn't real. It is a clearly defined mental disorder. What is being said is that not everyone who claims to be trans has said dyssphoria and indeed is acting out a fetish or "nuclear option" as one anon said. And yes, people will do extreme things in pursuit of fetishes up to and including surgeries and expensive hormone treatments.
Second, I understand therapy did not work for you. It has worked for others. Much like depression, some people can process through it and work it out; others may need medication or other treatments. Not everyone is the same in how they respond.
Third, fetishes do not have to be directly tied to sexual gratification in the traditional sense. Any atypical ritual or behaviour that grants satisfaction for an individual can be considered a fetish ie running fingers over different textures, behaving as a dog, or cross dressing as the opposite gender. These need not be sexual in nature to be a fetish.
>>5540915 What in particular was retarded about what I said? That not everyone that claims to be trans has dyssphoria? That some people with dyssphoria can cope with it after therapy? Or that not all fetish-like behaviors are inately sexual?
>>5540231 as someone who spent a lot of time in slash communities in their youth, this is not at all true. the vast majority of women who enjoy yaoi or slash are happy to be women and don't get off from crossdressing or imagining themselves as men. i know/knew so so so many people into yaoi and i never once met anyone who i would describe as even being INTERESTED in dressing up as a man, let alone having a fetish for it.
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