/SIG/ Sig Implosion General: Unsafe at any speed edition

>>34791915

Like there isn't 3 other threads about the same damn thing and a host of others that get a handful of replies before they disappear. These threads go along of lines.

>Cause noone wants to buy a Glenade
>Sigshits btfo
>Lol
>other stupid shit along the same lines

Sig will still be a respected brand just like Glock. Both had teething issues so eventually this will pass just like Ford Explorers trying to kill their drivers, particularly cops, via carbon monoxide poisoning.

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>>34791978
It's almost like creating a general for the massive shitstorm sig has created would clean up the board...

>>34791915
I've always said SIGs are trash, glad to see you cavemen are catching up.

SIG A SHIT

SHIT

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>>34792143
It freaks me out how fast and hard their brand has fallen. In my mind they're Remington tier. I've wanted a p226 for ages but I think I can kiss that goodbye unless I find a German one

>>34792167
They have been shit for a few years now but that's what happens when your company is run by idiots. I would say your summation is accurate, they are no better than Remington at this point.

>>34792167
Yup. Sig used to be a fantastic company but they are meh now.

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>>34792201
So fucking depressing. What good brands are left? HK? Glock? Maybe CZ?

My blacklist just grows and grows as the years march on

>>34792223
That depends what you're looking for but I trust HK. I've owned glocks that have shit out on me and I wouldn't spend the money on a CZ. Few companies these days make good products across the board, generally they make a few good things and everything else is meh.

RAILZZZZZ

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This is a real p320 ad.

>>34792223
Smith and Wesson is gud

>>34792334
They sold us out to the clintons

>>34791915
Ripped Steyr off and still didn't get it right.

>>34792244
You're an HK fanboy, of course you will praise them for being the only maker left.

>>34792466
Because they make good rifles and handguns and very few of their products suffer from these recalls you see others going through. Their quality is top notch as well.

>>34792490
HK sucks bitch. Beretta is king

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HOL UP SO YOU BE SAYIN'
*gets frame gouged by fingernail*
IS YOU TELLIN' ME
*jams*
HOL UP HOL UP HOL UP
*misfires*
SO YOU SAYIN'
*receives shoddy qc*
WE SOME KINDA
*begins firing randomly*
GLOCK KILLAZ?!

>>34792592
Sig? More like Jig

>>34792557
Nice joke.

>>34792419
20 years ago, under completely different ownership

are you aware of what the current year is?

>>34792490
everything you say is troll tier bait bullshit

shut the fuck up, get off our board, and go back to fucking goats until we drop a moab on you and your inbred family

>>34792244

you can literally have a suppressor or competition ready CZ for the price of an HK. whatchu mean you wouldn't spend the money on a CZ?

>>34792700
>wahhhhh someone has a different opinion than I do wahhhhh
Cry more bitch nigga.
>>34792758
I've owned them and have absolutely no interested in them what so ever. The finish and machining is shit so why get one when I can get a clone for half the price.

>>34792223
Glock man. Tried and trusted. I've had a g19 for years, and it is still as good as the day I unboxed it.

>>34791915
This is the problem with brandfaggotry. Watching the SIGtards act like the Glocktards makes my heart warm. The whataboutism has never been greater. So much "W-what about Glock frame rail failures in 1992???" and "G-go test this list of guns that have already been tested and have little to no evidence of similar failures, p-please! I-I'm sure they will malfunction in a similar fashion despite there being little evidence or reporting that they have or
will!" when what they really should be saying is "Damn, that sucks! I hope this problem is resolved". You don't get a better product by deflecting this kind of shit.

>>34792813

what clones are decent? I haven't seen a single decent cz clone. why buy one when you can get an PO1 for like 550

>>34792872
The Turk clones are decent and accept many parts from their cz cousins, also for 550 I can get a used USP which I think is much better than czs shit

>>34792872
Sarsilmaz are the only officially liscensed cz clones.

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>>34792890

where the hell can you find them that cheap? I would've got one instead of a block. FUCK

>>34792951
Online deals, armslist, lgs, if you look you'll find them. I found a mark23 for 900 and a hk45 for 599 looking around locally. I didn't buy either and I wish i did but there are plenty of deals out there.

>>34792951

you can't lmao. for the price most are going for you can get a hella good cz like you said

>better trigger
>better sights
>better aftermarket
>more accurate
>more ergonomic
>not a fucking 2x4
>same price as a beat to shit USP

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfe9silCIm8

AND IT JUST KEEPS GETTING BETTER EVERY SINGLE TIME I SEE IT

>>34792989
You don't know how to buy guns if you can't find a used usp for around 550. There were even new ones going for near that a few months ago.
>better trigger
Nope, especially with a match kit that comes in some HKs
>better sights
Not really an argument because you can replace them
>better aftermarket
HK pistols are nice out of box and don't require extensive modification to be usable
>more accurate
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
>more ergonomic
Totally subjective to the user
>same price as a beat to shit usp
No ones fault you can't find good deals

>>34792989
>cz more accurate than hk despite USP 45s regularly out shooting race 1911s
someones full of shit and i think its you

>>34791978
Sort of this. Glocks had a reputation of going off just by chambering a round when they first started being adopted. Since been fixed and now everyone treats them like those bricks of a gun are the holy grail or something.

>>34792608
Jig Jewer

>>34792993
>https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfe9silCIm8
Fake and gay

>>34792758
It's best not to respond to tripfags.

>>34793182
t. Sig rep

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>>34792983
This. I picked up a police trade in usp 45 for 525 after taxes and transfer fees. Just had some holster wear. Fantastic handgun. Even better with the LEM

>>34793045
One of the things I love the most about the usp is the mag release. Took a min to get use to but I prefer it now.

>>34792700
This

>>34793237
The action didn't cycle and the muzzle flash was clearly CGI.

>>34792865
>"Damn, that sucks! I hope this problem is resolved". You don't get a better product by deflecting this kind of shit.
Hahahah... Where do you think you are? /k/'s a magical place and all, but it aint that magical

>>34793309
Watch again. Pay attention to the trigger.

Also, if you watched the Omaha video, you'd notice that the slide doesn't cycle either.

>>34793309
>the action didn't cycle
Are you fucking autistic? Drop tests are typically conducted with a casing that just has the powder and projectile removed.

The muzzle flash is just the primer and residual powder igniting.

>>34792951
First three results for used hk45 on GB, 750, 825, 950...

>>34791915
Losing the MHS contract really made the Glock shills come out in full force.

>>34793759
Sorry your shit gun isnt drop safe
Oh wait no im not

SIG cheated to get the contract. They didnt even finish the trials either

>>34792223
Ruger...despite their past with their founder they really are the only American Gun Company left that gives a damn.

>>34791915
Fucking hell, at this point the Army should just buy CZ 75 compacts and call it a day.

>>34792244
HK trigger guards break

>>34792890
USP for below 600? Fucking where?

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S U S P E N D E D

>>34793409
>Are you fucking autistic?
You're using that wrong, but I mean you can keep pushing your obviously fake test all you want.

>>34792685
They still put Hillary holes on their revolvers.
Pretty sure they're even worse than they were in the 90's

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ARMY CANCELS CONTRACT ARMY CANCELS CONTRACT,BREAKING NOW!!!!!!!!! holy fugg!!!!!!!

>>34793896
>You're using that wrong
You just failed the autism test tbqh

>>34793896
It's not fake. Nice way of proving your absolutely noguns

>>34793908
Anyone know if the Army is considering this?

>>34792223
>There are no good pistols.

Let's not have this distract us from the fact that American cops are poorly trained dumbasses.

>>34793975
Lol that has nothing to with Sig putting out non drop safe guns in 2017
Any other gun (except maybe a Taurus) the cop wouldve just picked it up and went about his day as usual

>>34793917
>>34793917
t. Glocksuckers, I'm glad you're able to figure out a way to type after your hands got mangled.

>>34793994
The LEO shouldn't have been licking donut glaze off his fingers to have dropped it in the first place.

>>34793999
Way to quote the same post twice dumbass
Stay mad about your shitty unsafe taurus-tier pistol

>>34794000
It literally doesnt matter what you think he should or shouldnt do. The gun shouldnt have gone off and thats Sigs fault entirely

>>34794077
>somehow Sig's fault that some thin blue cuck can't control his gun
They don't go off on their own, it requires a human doing stupid shit.

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>>34791915
Well, Glock and SIG are failures.
Good thing I've got my good old man stoppa right here

>>34794096
>ignores OPs webm
>"waa i hate cops"
You need to be 18 to post here.

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>>34794123
>ruger

>>34794144
I'm not ignoring the webm. That happens if the gun is dropped at a specific angle, sure.
What I'm saying is that it wouldn't be a problem if the retard didn't drop his gun like a fat kid with too much ice cream on their cone.

>>34791915
It should say "Unsafe at any angle" OP
You fugged up

>>34794167
And I'm saying this has been a non issue to any serious gun manufacturer for the last few decades

Just admit this and I'll leave you alone: SIG fucked up and you're underage

>>34794180
Sig fucked up but so did the cop.
A professional really ought to be held to a higher standard.

>>34793095
>Glocks had a reputation of going off just by chambering a round when they first started being adopted.

No they didn't. It was fudd rumor that they exploded because they were made of plastic just like a barbie doll or candy wrapper.

>>34794167
>>34794190
>Stupid cop! He should have dropped his gun in a different way!

>>34794219
He shouldn't have dropped it at all.
I'm a civilian and I've never dropped a gun for as long as I've been shooting.
I know retired cops who have been shooting for over 30 years, never dropped a gun.
Treat a firearm with more respect.

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the thing about guns in general, USA cant make shit. all the good guns are made in Europe by people who actually know how to make real guns. look at what happens with brands every time they set up a plant in the usa and start building shit. quality control goes to shit and they start cutting corners and using inferior materials to make there product so they can save a buck. just admit amerifags cant make guns they didnt even know how to cold hammer forge barrels until the 1970's

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>>34792325
>mfw
Goddam, SIG take this L

>>34794226
You're missing the point
In no way does a fire arm prove itself as "military/police grade" if it cant even handle being dropped
It just so happens that the gun went off on an individual you dont like, so you're willing to overlook the fact that Sig is literally european Taurus now.

>>34794271
When did I defend Sig?
All I said is that the officer was negligent in dropping it in the first place.
If a chef dropped a nice razor sharp knife and cut their foot I'd say the same thing, but at least the chef is justified in that they handle wet foods.

>>34794256
>g-guys stop paying attention to Sig being shit
Pathetic

>>34791915
this is what you get when you have run so many trials to replace the m4 and the m9 that manufacturers just give up on the investment in R&D and submit pieces of crap that barely met the criteria.

Just look at the guns that came out of the joint combat pistol trials, we got some of the best 45 suppressor host in the market, with actually innovative features, like the rotating barrel of the px4, we got the first factory optic ready handgun, the fnx tac, all the guns where awesome, well, maybe there was the usual ruger or taurus that was pretty meh.

But this trial?
>beretta got sick of the army rejecting the m9a3, wich is a fantastic hangun and was the smartest option and made a gun that looks like a joke on the requirements, you want broad slide serrations? got you senpai. modularity? we will copy the steyr patent like sig did.
>The 509 looks like a cheaper FNS made just for this trial, I bet when they shoot a million rounds with it it was out of pure surprise that the thing works.
>the cz is just really meh, just another striker fired pistol more, nothing special.
>glock is just...glock...
>the sig shoots you in the face when you drop it

>>34794281
>cop cant make mistakes but chefs can
These is some real double standards

>>34794318
>I'd say the same thing

>>34794256
>browning
>stoner
lmfao rekt

>>34794281
>>34794326
This is /SIG/ and the weapons board, not /COP/

It's about the gun fucking up, not the cop being a dumbass

>>34794375
>proper gun handling and safety
>not /k/ related

>>34794384
You're trying to derail the fuck up
It sad to see so many of these bandwagoners falling off like an unsecured crate

>>34794398
They are Sig owners, it's pretty obvious

>>34794398
Derail what? By saying you shouldn't drop guns? By saying LEOs should treat their firearms with care? Are those untrue statements?

>>34794408
Not the topic of this thread
Stay angry

>>34794421
The topic of the thread is the dropped p320 incident, is it not?
You're the only angry one anon, I don't know why you can't get the cop cock out of your face long enough to recognize negligence and call it out.

>>34794432
You keep trying to talk about the cop, when everyone is talking about sig
Its the most obvious derail attempt ever, but I only respond to you so that the thread is bumped and every /k/ommando can see what a fuck up Sig Sauer is.

>>34794432
>sticking to the topic of the thread means that you like cop cock

You're delusional. Make a new thread about your dumb cop thing if you can't shake it off your mind, lefty.

>>34794441
I already talked about Sig being a fuckup. People have talked about all kinds of topics itt.
All you've done is attack me for no reason.

>>34794296
Did glock ever reveal their previous entries to the tests? Or is this the first time they enter?

>>34791915
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/08/07/breaking-mhs-winner-sig-sauer-sued-police-officer-shot-dropped-holstered-p320/

>>34794452
>talking about the incident is somehow off topic
>hurr I'll call him a leftist!
Your hypocrisy is astounding.

>>34794465
You're not talking about the incident and you're intentionally trying to make it about the cop, when we're trying to talk about the gun
But its fine, as long as you leep bumping the thread and exposing this shit company then I'm fine with you bitching

>>34794465
So what's your point? Yeah the cop is a dumbass, everyone agrees on that. Is that it?

>>34792223
HK
CZ
Glock
S&W non-revolver
TT-33
Mak

>>34794501
Apparently some don't agree like >>34794077
>>34794500
>not talking about the incident
The incident is the cop dropping the gun and shooting himself, how am I not talking it about it by saying the cop shouldn't drop his gun?

You're the one bitching here anon, all because I said cops shouldn't drop their firearm. And you seem to think I'm trying to defend Sig's reputation when I haven't done anything of the sort.

>>34794510
did you just name all the guns you own?

>>34794464
>http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/08/07/breaking-mhs-winner-sig-sauer-sued-police-officer-shot-dropped-holstered-p320/

HAPPENING

>>34792223
>>34794510
FNH
Beretta
Walther
Rex Zero
a lot of 1911s

It's not like sig was really that relevant in the market for anyone but the fanboys

>>34794408
People shouldn't crash their cars, yet all of them have bumpers, airbags, and seat belts. What are you trying to prove?

>>34794543
>1911's

haha

>>34794464
Remember when we wanted gun manufacturers to be immune from these kinds of lawsuits?

>>34794556
I mean, if you got the money, I have hear that wilson combat 1911s don't shoot you in the face if you drop em

>>34794568
good point

>>34794546
People who get cause car accidents through negligence still share responsibility. So too does this incompetent cop, because the incident wouldn't have happened if he treated his weapon with better care.

>>34794584
Man I wish he didn't have a live round in the chamber. The incident wouldn't have happened if he was carrying dummy rounds

>>34794601
A gun is meant to chamber rounds. It is not meant to be dropped like a wasted white girl's iPhone 7.

>>34794584
So it is not okay that P320s may discharge when dropped, correct?

>>34794612
Yeah exactly. That's why the internal safety measures should work correctly. You know, just in case someone has an accident.

>>34794617
No, and I never said it was.
It's not okay that a LEO can't properly handle his firearm, correct?
>>34794618
I never said it shouldn't anon.

>>34794623
Alright, the LEO can't handle his firearm properly, and the SIG P320 is a dangerous piece of shit.

Job done, pack it up and move on.

>>34794623
Correct

Now back to Sig
If this ruins the MHS selection for them I'll be happy, but I'm honestly wondering if the Army is willing to take the bad PR for selecting it.

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Sigfags on suicide watch

>>34792223

FNH-Browning is the best firearms manufacturer to ever grace God's green earth.

>>34794642
More likely they'll just fix the problem and retest, and nobody but gun hobbyists will even remember.
They'll likely change their drop test requirements though.

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>>34794642

Considering they probably haven't even begun manufacturing the guns to fill the order in sure they'll just redesign it to be drop safe and then fulfill the contract.

In 5 years nobody will give a shit just like people today don't give a shit about pic related. Glock is still a good company and Sig is still a good company.

>>34794653
I love my FNX but I'm not quite sold on the 509, they do make some of the fest firearms in the market, like the SCAR and I'm looking really hard into the SPR A5M but don't fall into the fanboy state, don't be a p320 owner

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>>34794675

Fuck, wrong pic.

>>34794678

Oh no I own all kinds of shit, from an FNX to a USP to a West German 226 and even an old Rugerr p89. I own all kinds of shit, but my duty carry is an FNX and my patrol carbine is an FN15

>>34794685
how is the FN15 serving you? I'm looking into another AR but I'm leaning more towards Daniel Defense, I really like the military collector m4 but can't justify the price

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Why didn't Sig add any safeties to the civilian model? You'd think a trigger safety like you typical Glock, M&P, FN, etc would have made this a non-issue. I find it strange that they're marketing a dity/carry gun with no safeties whatsoever, especially in today's lawsuit-friendly culture.

>>34794077
I dont get why people are so mad about all of this. Its not like anyone on this forum actually owns guns or will ever join the military.

>>34794558
Guns EULA when?
>gun is not drop safe we have no liability if your drop it :^)

>>34794776
>enormous recall being made
>p320s are shooting people if you drop them now
I'd be upset if Ihad wasted my money on the modern Sig meme

>>34794696

I've yet to have any kind of problem with it. Best AR I've built in my opinion. So far I have had no malfunctions or jams and I've put a couple thousand rounds through it at least. All the internals still look great and outside of cleaning it it's required no maintenance.

>>34792143
I said sig was trash before you knew how trash they were.

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HAHAHAHA STUPID JEW GUN BTFO

Once again it fails to unseat the AUSTRIAN BRICK OF WHITE POWER!

>>34794744
That's what I want to know... Everyone else has some kind of trigger dingus exactly because of this kind of thing... They may need to remove mass from the trigger...

>>34792813
Quite honestly, I think you're a faggot too. I really do hope you die. You bring nothing to the board but dumb bullshit and you won't leave willingly.

If we sent you some bleach would you drink it?

>>34794744
Glock has drop safety
HK has it
FN has it
S&W has it
CZ has it
Beretta has it
Steyr has it
Walther has it
Even mother fucking Canik has it
>be Sig
Nah we're good

Are Sig P250s still good?

I really want a DAO or DA/SA gun that I can dry fire on a lot and use for the nightstand and I've always liked them. If not I'll probably just find a used Beretta or something.

>>34795270
BUY A GLOCK FAGGOT, HAVENT YOU LEARNED

>>34795287
I already own one. It works well but it's fucking boring and I hate the grip angle. I do like the ergos of the p320 a lot better.

This sucks but I ain't getting rid of my 320

>>34795295
>>34795300
HAHAHA HAVE FUN SHOOTING YOUR DICK OFF LOSERS MAYBE IF YOUD BOUGHT A GLOCK

>>34795295
Hk
K

>>34795314
Ok

>>34791915
you're like the same retard that starts the battleship threads or the retard that starts the f35 threads. go suck off pierre sprey.

>>34791915
I am so fucking happy I didn't buy one of these POS pistols. Almost fell for it, then I saw how expensive spare frames and slides and shit are. Then the X series came out and I almost jumped then, but had read of some reliability problems.

Now that SHTF I am so fucking happy I waited because these fucking things are soon to be worthless on the secondary market because Sig will come out with a new update or whole new model.

>>34795447
We get it you bought a Glock instead

>>34794096
Or the ground hitting the back of the slide, that seems to work now, too

>>34794646
>I suppose one could watch the muzzle and try to dodge just in case.
kek

>>34795460
I haven't bought anything "instead". I already own all the Glocks I will ever need, bought several years ago. I've bought other pistols lately but they weren't "instead".

Just watched the Oklahoma Outdoors video and see the X5 passed their drop tests, and that is the one I was going to buy. Hmmmm.....maybe I still do.

>>34792951
Shop around. I picked up a mildly used USP45 for $500, had the original box and everything.

>>34795149
And that's totally okay with me, I've been claiming they were shit for years now, looks like people are seeing the light.
>>34795246
Don't cut yourself on that edge kiddo.

>>34793935
They're not.

The Army contract 320s and civvy 320s aren't even the same.

This is Glock Shills that are still assblasted that Glock can't figure out how to make hot boxed frames with serialized triggers, because god forbid progress.

>>34795596
Army 320s are literally even worse quality, because it's a lowest bidder, they are just saving face and hopping that the shitstorm passes if they are no considering this.

PS: I don't care about glock, the m9a3 was the only reasonable replacement.

Given the controversy, TTAG repeated the experiment:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/08/jeremy-s/breaking-ttag-tests-show-p320-striker-fired-pistols-are-not-drop-safe/

The guns once again fired. The P320 is NOT drop safe. Done. The hits keep coming! Sig is officially Taurus tier.

I don't get why this is a big deal. I mean, yeah, not being drop safe is bad, very bad. But from the Omaha Outdoors video, it appears that it's an easy to correct problem. All Sig has to do is fix the trigger since that seems to be the point of failure. Trigger swapped, and the gun stops going off when dropped at this one specific angle.

I say this as someone who has never owned a Sig, nor has any real desire to own one.

>>34791915
Hot plastic garbage

metal frames for life!

Honestly, only hipster fags own anything besides a Glock. Like yeah, you might get like a 1911 or something if you're a fudd (but they make glocks in .45 so that doesn't even count). Like why wouldn't you own the most accurate, durable, reliable, and not to mention safe pistol on the market with heaps and heaps of Aftermarket? Have fun spending $300+ more on a product that is objectively inferior to the big cock of the Glock just so you Can be a "speshul snowflaek".

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>>34795809

>>34795794
I think it's symptomatic of the very discernible quality drop from sig in the past few years. Even if this gets fixed you have to wonder what other ugly issues will rear their head down the road. Regardless, this isn't an issue a modern 21st century pistol should be having.

>>34795809
I like glocks but honestly there isn't a gun in the world that feels as incredible in my hands as a 1911. The trigger is also buttery smooth.

>>34795845
I agree with you on that. It should have never been an issue in the first place. But it is, and it will be corrected. Just like the issues with .40 short and weak out of Glocks without proper chamber support that led to kabooms.

>>34793759
They're absolutely out of their minds with rage, like Hillary voters after Trump BTFO them.

>>34795794
Glock owners are going full democrats-after-election-tier meltdown ever since Glock failed to secure the contract
>modular system requested
>provide alternate backstraps
I mean, M&Ps have had swappable backstraps for a decade and that hasn't won them any contracts, why did Glock think it would be any different for them? Seems like Glock's pride and arrogance and assumption the contract was theirs caused them to lose.

>>34795907
I'd love it if we went back to the 1911. Truly the pistol of the discerning officer.

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>>34791915
>http://www.ctlawtribune.com
Excellent source, faggot.

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>>34795809
>>34795853
Best .45 in the market coming through.
>>34795907
>>34795867
>my handgun is clearly unsafe and has a poor design, but I mean, it's not like that matters, damn glock fanboys are just salty
Every single tax payer has been ripped by this company, because the fixes that this handgun will undergo until it's actually useful will be paid with more trials and government programs.

>>34792758
>>34792758
>>34792244

You can have a used CZ for under $400. It may not be pretty but it will work amazingly.

>>34795965
>best 45
>not uspt
Hahahhahahhahahahhaahhahahahhahaha Fnfaggots are as bad as signiggers

>>34795969
I don't want to spend money on a gun that is half finished.

>>34795938
A non NATO caliber low capacity finicky metal pistol is not going to be winning ANY contracts

>>34795965
>>my handgun
But I own an M&P. Save your memes, I know my gun and I'm happy with it, it hasn't failed yet in 2k rounds

>>34795976
>laughable capacity
>proprietary rail
>adjustable sights in a "tactical" handgun
>ergonomics from the 90's
>weird thread pitch
>not optics ready
>not a soldiers gun

The future is now old man.

haha
Sig btfo
Glock yet again is the best striker poly pistol
stay mad motherfuckers

>>34796030
>laughable capacity
More reliable than the fn.
>proprietary rail
In an age when very few handguns had rails.
>as if adjustable sights are bad
>implying ergonomics need to change because the human hand has evolved so much from the 90s
>not optics ready
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
>not a soldiers gun
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAH
FN owners are retarded

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>>34796030
Don't forget that one feature when you leave it out in the sun! Such a great soldiers gun lol.

>>34796054
>More reliable than the fn.
Unproven.
>In an age when very few handguns had rails.
Yeah, that's because it's an old gun, USP owners are like the 1911 crowd
>laughs as an argument because doesn't have a counter argument.
what are you? 12?

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>>34796054
>human hand
>implying the USP grip wasn't designed for Nazi death robots
>failing to acknowledge superior P2000 ergonomics
lmaoing at your life senpai

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>>34796073
>unproven
Nope there are plenty of USP and HK pistols with 50k+ rounds. I'm laughing because that's literally the dumbest argument ever. If you want to add optics there are tons of options for just about any handgun now and your other argument was that it's not a soldiers gun, lol. The gun is based off of the mark 23 which is one of the most rugged and durable pistols ever.
>muh soldiers gun that can't even be outside without deforming is the best guise pls believe me

>>34795253
My Taurus Millenium G2 has it... at least, it does on paper..

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>>34796066
Better flimsy than broken :)
>ignoring the update of that story
grow up, your gun is dated.

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>>34796105
>muh soldiers gun

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>>34796116
wow such soldiers

Sig be like, "Look at me! Look at me! I am dee Taurus now!"

Tho I still want an M11 for dem aesthetics

>>34796092
>buying guns from terrorists
you also like caniks?

>>34795794
Glockfags have a new meme to combat the slew of memes against them. It will be fixed, the military will keep it (who cares though), and glockfags will still persist with this meme just like the "muh glocknade". The internet is filled with angry tards.

>>34796125
>so salty
some in the puppet where your feelings hurt

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>>34796143
>dat projection
sorry about your soldiers gun bruh

>>34796133
I'm not a politician so I don't really care what country my gun is made in, you faggot will bitch and moan about buying caniks but are probably totally unaware that most of your car parts are coming from Turkey.

>>34796154
no worries, my ego is not invested so heavily in a single object

>>34796158
nice try roach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8Oz6krEH_I

Another test for the Sigfags to call "fake"

>>34796187
Sure

>>34796140
It's pretty telling that while all the shills of each manufacturer tear each other apart, all anyone can say about glock brand glock is "but memes"

Also this is sunk cost: the thread

>>34796188
Great rebuttal, it tells me you have no argument or are too stupid to formulate one.

>>34795462
That only happens after some retarded fuck drops a loaded gun, such as this officer.

>>34795993
It won all the contracts for 70 years, never had a problem.
Just needs a John Browning around to fix the few issues it has.

>>34795984
Why not? Hopefully it'll blow up on you by culturally appropriating your shitty desert death cult.

>>34796196
>brand new
>4ft
B-but it only happens when you drop a sig that has been beaten with a hammer for four months 12 feet onto a bed of nails, sigfag told me so

>>34796270
>Why not?
Do you like to get ripped off? I know being a cuck is really popular in the west right now but don't project your lifestyle on others.

>>34796291
>I know being a cuck is really popular in the west right now
Like you don't rent out your goat from time to time

>>34796318
Don't call your mom a goat.

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>>34796291
>bitches about the west
>lives in the west

You Mudslimes are a fucking parody.

>>34793815
>SIG cheated to get the contract. They didnt even finish the trials either

Your asshurt is showing Glockfag.

>>34796236
To be fair, I would expect any weapon meant for duty/military applications to be drop safe. It's not like these guys work in a safe range environment. Regardless if the guy was being an idiot, it's absolutely unacceptable that the gun may accidentally fire. It raises the question of what else will cause it to fire? The military should absolutely be concerned because military operations are in anything but a smooth and silky environment. The police because they ride around in cars all day and cars have an astronomically higher rate of accidents than guns, the last worry should be what the gun will do when it is inevitably involved in a car accident.

Yeah, homie shouldn't have dropped his weapon, but it's ignorant to think this sort of thing can be brushed off as negligence on the part of the officer. These things will get abused and banged up because of the role they are in. I still want a Sig, but not this Sig

>>34796345
I can enjoy living here and still think you're effeminate cucked faggots, besides the country sluts here love Europeans.

>>34796326
Don't insinuate bad things about my mother, I might have to honor kill her! Oh wait.

>>34796365
I would never disrespect my 24th wife like that.

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>>34796371

>>34796356
And everybody rightfully thinks that you are an uneducated moronic fuck who takes the writings of a desert schizophrenic pedophile to be the literal word of gawd. Nobody likes you. You don't get any attention in your life hence why you need to come to a Mongolian cave-painting forum and tripfag advertising your shitty desert delusion that you follow.

>balkanshits
>europeans

Absolute lmao. You are an Ottoman rapebaby. Actual White Europeans consider your region and people to be the toilet of the region. You are worth nothing.

>>34796382
Hi goatanon, nice to see your obsession with goats is still strong.

>>34796355
I never said Sig wasn't at fault, but the officer was being negligent as well.

I feel like a professional shouldn't be in a situation where you need to rely on a mechanical safety, because your safety should be your training and your fucking brain.
Plenty of civilians have never dropped their gun because they don't treat it with contempt. A cop should be able to handle a service weapon without fumbling around. Next time he fumbles some skinhead is going to put a bullet through him and he'll be hailed as some kind of brave hero.

>>34796387
>Actual White Europeans
They won't exist in a generation and your daughters will be dating muslim boys. Topkek.

>>34796390
I'm just being respectful of your culture m7. Don't know what you want from me.

>>34796402
Maybe so, but you still will never be white. You will always be Turkroach-tier.

>>34796408
Ive actually never even eaten goat which is hilarious because anons here have.

>>34796394
It's already well known that most police officers aren't gun guys, and most of them don't even use their firearms outside of qualification, that's why there are so many NDs with glocks and cops, another reason to make sure that the handguns we give them are rugged enough.

>>34796418
I never accused you of being a cannibal.

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>>34796417
>looks down
Pretty sure I'm white lol. Also the rapebabbies were Serbs and Croats, pic related.
>>34796429
Where did you accuse me of being a goat?

>>34796426
It's just tragic that the people we give guns to protect us are probably the least proficient gun users overall, yet we're supposed to be calm and collected when they're around.

>>34796431
>Where did you accuse me of being a goat?
It's your father you need to talk to m8 not me

>>34796433
that's why they have to pass a personality test, to make sure they are going to try to stay away from their guns as much as possible

>just bought a 320 compact a month ago

Oh boy

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>>34796431
Ah, yes. The "white" Bosnians.

>>34796453
But they don't, which is why so many people get shot for no fucking reason.
Like this moron for example.

>>34795664

~200 bucks a handgun if I'm not mistaken also yeah. Upgrading what you have would've been the best choice

>>34796249
John Browning did fix those issues.
It's called the Hi Power

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>>34796451
You went from calling your mom a goat to implying I'm one now? Mate put the goat bestiality away because its really getting to you.
>>34796456
I know right, look at them compared to these neoturks.

>>34796529
> Mate put the goat bestiality away
Funnily enough the same thing they said to you at customs

>>34796456
So how is /pol/ classifying white people now, because those people sure look white.

>>34796553
Yeah I should have left your mother.

>>34796561
you forgot your trip my man. brownskins are not white.

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>>34796529
So fucking white dude.

>>34796605
>brownskins are not white
>but his image had white people in it
Nice mental gymnastics.

>>34796618
No it didn't. All of them were brown. You forgot your trip, mudshit.

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>>34796616
Thanks for strengthening my argument lol, is anon really this dumb?
>pic related: more neoturks

>>34796630
>brown
>posted white people
Yeah sure whatever you say retard.

Nearly all South Slavs, Greeks, and Albanians are part Turk my dudes. There is no point in arguing it.

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>>34796630
found the angry turk

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This thread has derailed

>>34796643
The vast majority of Bosnians are shitskin browns. That's what happens when you are a Turk and Arab rapebaby with actual Whites. You get a disgusting brown mutt, i.e not white.

It's always hilarious when balkannigger subhumans try to claim they are white.

>>34796644
No. Point out where you blind retarded fuck.

>>34796579
You seem pretty obsessed with my mother. I'm not mad, but it's kind of hard to take a muslim seriously when he pretends to be attracted to anything over 12 years old.

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>>34796668
>The vast majority of Bosnians are shitskin browns
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH, if you're going to make a retarded claim such as that at least post your sources and scientific proof, but you dont have it so I'll continue to laugh.
>That's what happens when you are a Turk and Arab rapebaby with actual Whites
Bosnians were spared the rape because we converted, Serbs on the other hand, lol.
>It's always hilarious when balkannigger subhumans try to claim they are white.
It's even funnier seeing /pol/faggots claim they aren't while going through all these mental gymnastics.

>>34796668
ITT angry sigfaggots and a kebab

>>34796394
Yes those professionals shouldn't be in those situations but they will be in those positions due to the nature of the job. This officer probably wasn't in one of those situations, but remember that these guys roll around on the ground and get in accidents all the time.

There's a lot of people focusing on the cop in this situation and ignoring the big concern that is the gun not being drop safe. Yes he shouldn't have fucking dropped his weapon, that is agreed upon. But that doesn't mean this conversation stops there. Sig is more culpable in this; anyone denying it is either a fanboy, cop block idiot, or a troll and likely all three.

It's like some idiots will jump at any chance to spout their unasked for opinion about the police

>>34796722
youre a massive faggot but the sheer amount of butthurt you cause is incredible

>>34796765
Thanks nigga but it's only possible when you have so many special snowflakes.

>>34796777
>heaven trips

>>34796722
Any picture of a massive group of Bosnians? Just google it. The vast majority of you are brown and dark hair, same as the Turks and Arabs. Not fucking white. You are rapebabies. This is sadder than Pakis pulling up a pic of a blonde hair blue eyed tribal girl and claiming they are actually white.

You are disgusting browns.

>>34796524
That was only partially designed by him. The true successor to the 1911 died when he did.

>>34796748
I hope to see a response from sig soon, but I don't expect much, this whole deal will probably be sweep under the carpet by the army that will continue to adopt a POS handgun that will eventually be something decent.

call me when the m17a2 comes to market, that one will probably be safe.

>>34796786
>just google it
Burden of proof is on you. If you can't prove this with genetic tests then your argument is bunk. Nice try retard.

>>34796722
>Bosnians were spared the rape because we converted
>convert to islam or we'll literally rape you until there are none of you left.
>o-okay...
Religion of peace?

>>34795253
You forgot to add that Glocks in their second generation were recalled for drop safety issues.

I inherited one but am not so worried about converting it at the moment. Maybe natural selection will sort me out.

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>>34796786
>brown and dark hair makes you a turk or arab
just look at all these arabs

>>34796666

wtf I'm Muslim now

>>34796811
>he thinks we converted because they threatened rape
You should learn more about history and something called Bogumilism before you make another comment a kindergartner could refute.

>>34796852
So, you're saying that Muslims don't threaten rape in order to make people convert to Islam, but they rape just because?

Wow, that's new to me!

>>34796880
People rape for no reason!?

Wow, that's new to me!

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>>34796722
>this is """"""white""""""

Holy fuck the white race is doomed.

>>34796799

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bosniaks&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop#/media/File:Percentage_of_major_Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_Europe.png

Here you go. You are not fucking white. You don't overlap with Germanics, Anglos, Nordics, etc. You are T*rk, Slav, and Greek mixed trash. Not fucking white.

>>34796880
>was raped as a child

>>34796819
Actually it signifies dominant non-white genes. Black hair and brown skin are not white genes. They are the hallmark of a rapebaby.

ITT: nothing about the p320, we rather talk about muslims.

This is why you don't respond to tripfags, this is why we can't have nice things.

>>34796852
>knowing the history of an irrelevant shithole like Bosnia
lol
>Bosnians were spared the rape because we converted
I mean you justify it any way you want to chief, your words, your history professor words sure do make it sound like they would have had the shit raped out of them if they didn't convert. Maybe it's not a straight up threat but idk senpai.

why hasn't this retarded tripfaggot been banned yet? all he does is whore for attentiob

>>34796910
>https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bosniaks&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop#/media/File:Percentage_of_major_Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_Europe.png
>you don't overlap with germanic anglos, nordics
Dude did you even look at that page before you posted? You just proved me right lmao.


>dont overlap with nordics
>ignores that i1 and i2a have the same exact ancestor
>ignores the fact that his link states Bosnians possess 50% I haplogroup
>ignores the fact that r1 also has the same ancestor
>ignores that we are on average some of the tallest in europe
Lol and to counter your argument I post the same link as you, but this time try reading :). It's been a while since I've shrekt someone this hard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosniaks#Origins_and_Genetics

>>34796930
>trying to make an argument without knowing facts
>>34796954
Mods love me.

>>34796910
>As with all modern European nations, a large degree of 'biological continuity' exists between the Bosniaks and their ancient predecessors with Bosniak Y chromosomal lineages testifying to predominantly Paleolithic European ancestry.[71][72] A majority (>67%) of Bosniaks belong to one of the three major European Y-DNA haplogroups:[71] I (48.2%), R1a (15.3%) and R1b (3.5%), while a minority belongs to less frequently occurring haplogroups E (12.9%), J2 (9.5%), G (3.5%) and F (3.5%) along with other more rare lineages.[71]

>>34796910
>no overlap
>his link shows that there is
Um okay?

>>34796910
Today I learned that Bosniaks are pretty much white. Thanks, knowledge man!

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>>34797006
>i1 and i2a have the same exact ancestor

Are you fucking stupid? i2a is Slavic gene. Slavs are not white. They are not the same. i1 originated in Western and Northern Europe, I quote:

>Haplogroup I1 is the most common type of haplogroup I in northern Europe. It is found mostly in Scandinavia and Finland, where it typically represent over 35% of the Y chromosomes. Associated with the Norse ethnicity, I1 is found in all places invaded by ancient Germanic tribes and the Vikings. After the core of ancient Germanic civilisation in Scandinavia, the highest frequencies of I1 are observed in other Germanic-speaking regions, such as Germany, Austria, the Low Countries, England and the Scottish Lowlands, which all have between 10% and 20% of I1 lineages.

i2a originated from anatolia:

>The analysis of Early Neolithic genomes from Anatolia byMathieson et al. (2015)shows that I2c (L596) was already present in north-western Turkey 8,500 years ago, and had been assimilated by the Neolithic farmers on their way from the Fertile Crescent to Europe. Variousancient DNA studiesconducted between 2014 and 2016 revealed that all Mesolithic European lineages became absorbed by the wave of Neolithic farmers. Yet I2a stood out as the most common among them, amounting to 16% of the 69 Neolithic Y-DNA samples tested. That places it as the second most common paternal lineage afterG2a, the original lineage lineage of Anatolian farmers.


>ignores the fact that bosnians have possess 50% i haplogroup

i2a, not i1.

>ignores the fact that r1 has the same ancestor

Holy fuck. They are not the same They have a common ancestor sure, but so do all races. They evolved very differently and are not the same.

You are so fucking retarded. Learn to genetics and fuck off. You are not white.

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>>34797082
And here is the white gene.

>b-but dey had a common ancestor we wuz white n shieeeet

Top fucking kek.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/08/daniel-zimmerman/breaking-sig-sauer-offers-voluntary-trigger-upgrade-p320-pistols/

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Wow. It's almost like with all these guns ever made... Sig, HK, Glock, FN... each have a large amount of anecdotal catastrophic failures being projected by haters as the norm for the model. It's almost like... dear god... They all actually work and the failures given are extraordinarily uncommon... Holy Fuck someone cALL THE POPE!!

Being someone who owns 3 guns imported by Century, I'm just glad someone else is getting the meme-tier shitfest.

The jewish gun defense force is strong.

>>34797082
>I2a is a slavic gene
Nope lol, R1a is the slavic gene my retarded friend. How many times are you going to contradict yourself?

>i2a is slavic
>slavs aren't white
HAHAHHAHAHAHAH, our scholar now dictates who is white and who isn't.

>i2a is Anatolian
>present in Anatolia 8500
>ignores the fact i2a has been found in europe predating that by at least 4000 years
>concentrations are much higher in europe than in turkey

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M438#I-P37.2
>place of origin balkans Mediterranean
#shrekt
you would be right if you said m170 originated elsewhere

Also Anatolian Turks are considered white, so even if I was wrong about the haplogroups I would still be right. Time to dust yourself off kiddo.

>>34797102
>muh white gene
>mutated less than 4000 years ago from the same ancestor as i2
BAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH, are you even trying kid?

>>34796616
Those people are definitely white.

>>34795183
pls tell me they just have blanks in that pistol.

>>34797102

So, this essentially means a vast portion of Europeans, especially in the former Roman Empire, are really not white.

interdasting

>>34796668
>one drop rule
>doesn't apply to whites

>>34797204
>each have a large amount of anecdotal catastrophic failures being projected by haters as the norm for the model.

If a failure is repeatable across several examples of the same design, it's the norm by definition.

>>34797102
>the highest concentration is 45%

Lad, what is this shit /pol/-tier definition of white?

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/08/daniel-zimmerman/breaking-sig-sauer-offers-voluntary-trigger-upgrade-p320-pistols/

Sig is officially on full damage control. Offering free trigger upgrades including ehnanced "drop performance".

>>34797309
>when your """enhanced""" drop protection is on par with what's standard for everyone else

>>34797204
Except TTAG bought a p320 new off the shelf and it blasted after being dropped in 2 attempts. This isn't a fluke.

>be a cop
>tfw have 320 as duty weapon
>tfw bought 320 carry as EDC weapon because weapon familiarity

I guess I'll just have to avoid dropping my guns on the ass-end of the slide.

Oh hey, can you folks take the "not white" debates back to /pol/ where they belong? Thanks.

>>34797276
>>34797300
so I guess if you arent german or scandinavian youre a turk or arab because germans and scandinavians are the only white people that exist

>>34794971
Well I mean Im glad you didn't either because
> Its not like anyone on this forum actually owns guns

>>34797314
*not available for American troops

Sig truly loves our armed forces

Has Based Bartocci said anything about this yet?

>>34797321
Careful cop bro, one in CT sigged himself in the knee in January.

>Be sigfag
>"HAHAHA GLOCKFAGS ABSOLUTELY NEED TO UPGRADE THEIR TRIGGER, BARREL, SLIDE, FRAME AND SIGHTS JUST TO HAVE A USABLE GUN!"
>Have to upgrade your trigger so your gun doesn't fire when dropped

>>34797354
I used tp be a cop like you, then I took a sig in the knee

>>34797387
kek
Old but well used

>>34797321
Even magazine plate first is enough.
It seems to be an issue with the design of the trigger shoe being so bottom heavy that when the gun is dropped the trigger has enough momentum to fire the gun.
This is why glock and s&w use shitty plastic triggers with those notches in them.

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If Glockfags wanted to start a real shitstorm, they could email these tests and articles to MSM and newspapers. I bet the media would love a bite of juicy "Government sinks millions into testing and adopting unsafe handgun that fires when dropped"

>>34795183

Gun aside, that drop test itself did not see mvery safe.

>>34797410
>MSM on guns
"Experimental Sig Brand Glock deemed too dangerous for the military! Find out how it ended up on YOUR streets!"

>>34795976

> This assmad that you got memed into buying a Nimitz-class 45

For that weight why not wear a trench coat and CC a Draco?

>>34797448
Primed brass only.

Holy fuck how many people willfully ignore the text that goes along with the videos that describes the testing procedures? Furthermore don't notice the complete lack of recoil and the fact that the pistol slide and barrel don't cycle?

How many retards are out there?

>>34797410
>>34797470
Holy shit, this would be hilarious.

Is there a single board in 4chan that isn't full of fucking fanboys?

>>34797257
>r1a is the slavic gene

No. That's the western european gene retard, l2a is the slavic gene


>Haplogroup I2 is the most common paternal lineage in former Yugoslavia, Romania, Bulgaria and Sardinia, and a major lineage in most Slavic countries. Its maximum frequencies are observed in Bosnia (55%, including 71% in Bosnian Croats), Sardinia (39.5%), Croatia (38%), Serbia (33%), Montenegro (31%), Romania (28%), Moldova (24%), Macedonia (24%), Slovenia (22%), Bulgaria (22%), Belarus (18.5%), Hungary (18%), Slovakia (17.5%), Ukraine (13.5%), and Albania (13.5%). It is found at a frequency of 5 to 10% in Germanic countries.

r1b consequently is the western european gene.

>R1b is the most common haplogroup in Western Europe

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml

>anatolian turks are considered white

Top fucking kek. Turkroaches are definitely not white you fucking imbecile.

>mutated

No you fucking idiot. L1 originated IN EUROPE. Not outside it unlike l2.

>Haplogroup l1 is the oldest major haplogroup in Europe and in all probability the only one that originated there (apart from very minor haplogroups like C1a2 and deep subclades of other haplogroups). Haplogroup IJ would have arrived from the Middle East to Europe some 35,000 years ago, then developed into haplogroup I soon afterwards. It has now been confirmed byancient DNA testthat the first Homo sapiens to colonize Europe during the Aurignacian period (45,000 to 28,000 years ago), belonged to haplogroups CT, C1a, C1b, F and I.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I1_Y-DNA.shtml

Read you fucking cretin.

L2 is from turks who aren't fucking whites. Slavs are not whites. Bosnians all look like fucking pooskin blackhair subhumans. You will never, EVER be white.

Good job samefagging by the way.

>>34797983
meant to quote
>>34797260

>>34797272
>>34797276
>>34797282

Cool samefag mudslime shitskin. Throw your trip back on.

>>34792166
You fucked it up you absolute mong. I hope your Sig magdumps you in the head on accident.

>>34797760
Try /wg/

>>34792993
Someone layer "Bring Me to Life" over this

>>34796402
Kill your fucking self.

>>34792223
Sig Sauer isn't a huge loss, they were always very niche by nature of their price and their choice to stick to their guns rather than respond to market pressures. They just had good marketing. Besides Springfield or Remington everyone is stepping up their game.

>>34796523
If Beretta came out with a mill-friendly slide they would have by far the best duty gun on the market with the M9A3. I hope they stick with it.

File: R1a-map.jpg (204KB, 750x466px) Image search: [Google]

204KB, 750x466px

>>34797983
>R1a is western european
Nope, picture related kiddo. It originates near the Caucasus.
>r1b consequently is the western european gene
You just said R1a is the Western European gene. Also if I2a is a slavic gene then why is it most present in Bosnia? Are Bosnians gigaslavs?
>l1 originated in europe
AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA HOLY FUCK
L1 is Central African lmao.
>l2 is from turks
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH West African Turks?

If you want to argue at least get your facts semi right, you could try to be on the same continent lol.

>>34796080
H&K hates the P2000 because it's their only pistol that isn't jumbo-sized Nazi occult superscience. It's just a comfortable pistol. It makes them feel dirty, like they're following Italians, Americans, or worse, Austrians.

>>34796196
How soon until we get a story where a guy lightly placed his P320 on his bench and it went off?

>>34798316
r1a is turkic moron. It originated in North Asia.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml

Anyways I meant r1b being western europe.

I2 came from the ukraine idiot, they migrated to the balkans (hence why bosnians are a slavic people)

>Nowadays northern Slavic countries have between 9% (Poland, Czech republic) and 21% (Ukraine) of I2a-L621, while southern Slavs have between 20% (Bulgaria) and 50% (Bosnia). The higher percentage of I2a-Din in the south is probably just due to another founder effect due to the fact that the South Slavs originated in western Ukraine, where the ratio of I2a to R1a was higher. Virtually all Dinaric I2a falls under the L147.2 branch, and the majority to the S17250 ramification, who descend from a common patrilinear ancestor who lived only 1,800 years ago.


http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml#I2a1b

Slavs are not white. And Bosnians are a Slavic, turkish and greek mix. Not white. Fuck off retard.

>>34795965
>Posts literal shit box compared to a Glock

Lol, fag enabler detected, I bet you hipsters can't name ONE pistol that is objectively better than the Glock.

>>34799085

>>34797476
>>34797476
>>34797476

>>34793815
I mean a failed drop test is a failed drop test, but
>cheated
Is a bit of a stretch. Sig showed up with the only system that the military actually asked for. It wasn't surprising they got the deal.