What's the rational behind this /k/? Did the US change its

File: IMG_1423.jpg (156KB, 576x720px) Image search: [Google]

156KB, 576x720px

>>34293240
Implying there is any strategy over there. Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria.... its all just an endless spiraling serious of escalations, reactions and accusations. The truth is, those "wars" are not winnable. At least I'm a way that won't further bankrupt the country. And the conflicts have had a continuing diminishing eroding affect on our military.

>>34293737

I actually agree with everything you said. But why would the US suddenly shoot down a Syrian plane? They could have doing this for years if they wanted too and as far as I'm aware, the Syrian government didn't do anything to provoke this attack.

>>34293808
https://twitter.com/ABC/status/876538618365476868/photo/1

It would seem the Trump administration has escalated the conflict by changing the ROI.

Someone in another thread says this is the first U.S. A2A kill since Kosovo.

Fuck the USA, why do you attack Syrian airplanes that are dropping bombs on IS??!?!?!?

Why does the USA help IS in this way?!

>>34293873

>""""""""""""""Syrian airplanes that are dropping bombs on IS""""""""""""""

File: 14885647839170.png (653KB, 1033x828px) Image search: [Google]

653KB, 1033x828px

>>34293818
>I love the writing styles of our military. Makes you proud to be an American! Go guys!!!

>>34293240
What was the Syrian army flying? What plane?

>>34293873
The Syrians were attacking coalition moderate groups, not ISIS.

File: giphy (1).gif (1MB, 480x287px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 480x287px

I thought Trump wasn't going to start a war with Russia.

>>34293848
It may be. I'm trying to see if there any were air-to-air fights in the Invasion of Iraq but can't find anything.
Seems like this Hornet splashing a Fitter is the first time an American pilot has shot anything (excluding UAVs and hlicopters) down since 1999. That's pretty crazy.

File: DCmL5yxXoAAUMOB.jpg large.jpg (797KB, 2048x1409px) Image search: [Google]

797KB, 2048x1409px

>>34293888

Not him but the only forces in the Rakka province are the SAA, SDF and IS. Currently, the SAA and SDF are not fighting each other and thus the only logical target of an Syrian Su-22 would be IS forces.

File: SU22_Syria.jpg (703KB, 3031x2045px) Image search: [Google]

703KB, 3031x2045px

>>34293898
SU22

>>34293899

This is news for me. I thought the SDF and the SAA just avoided each other and do their own stuff for now. Source if you are so kind?

>>34293873
Fun. suck that butthurt in

File: 1412125591837.jpg (16KB, 545x545px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 545x545px

>>34293899
>moderate
Good one, bud

>>34293932
The press release says the SU22 was attacking SDF forces.

>>34293937
SUPERIOR VATNIK TECH

Was not 'shot down' as claim by warmonger Americans. Was not maintained and flown by properly trained personnel so pilot forced to self destruct.

American pigs BTFO

Is there going to be video? I hope so.

>>34293916
Yeah, didn't he make it a point to say this is exactly what he would avoided if he was president?

File: DCoXOhnWAAAHL6b.jpg large.jpg (291KB, 1275x1650px) Image search: [Google]

291KB, 1275x1650px

ROE is to attack anybody launching attacks NEAR American "friendlies"

File: 11709555_10203181045326125_5903428984691878209_n.jpg (19KB, 720x403px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 720x403px

>>34293899
>moderate groups

File: FA-18E Super Hornet.jpg (237KB, 1500x997px) Image search: [Google]

237KB, 1500x997px

>>34293988
I want technical details. Especially weapon used and air speed, altitude and range. Video would be neat too.

>>34293990

Im a polack and I love our sukas its the only real CAS plane we have left but russians have embargoed the laser guided missiles and we have like 0 left in stores now

pilots really liked them

>>34293818
Err, ROE.

>>34293973

That must've been a mistake but alas, it seems the US is very protective of their SDF allies.

Most likely a BVR kill, I assume?

I want to know the missile. I guessing they went BVR.

>>34293973

technically it says

>near SDF fighters

IT DOES NOT SPECIFY THAT THEY WERE BEING DIRECTLY ATTACKED

we cant be sure what went down, but this sounds pretty sketchy

>>34294021
https://mobile.twitter.com/WyvernReports/status/871758137522520065/video/1

thats the best I can do so far

>>34294011
I think that's how it's been for a while the US directly bombed the SAA one time because they kept advancing towards a US SF team.
They are given warnings not to approach and then escorted away, if they don't listen or come back in an aggressive manner then they are shot down.

Russia will shoot down an airliner in retailiation

File: MgyMeBU.png (293KB, 494x501px) Image search: [Google]

293KB, 494x501px

>>34293916
There is no stopping it now

What does the SAA gain by suddenly attacking the SDF?

>>34294104
>What does the SAA gain by suddenly attacking the SDF?


-1 plane

File: 160527-us-special-forces-fatisah-1039a_e35714369ea4394bb37a9c33caba67c3.nbcnews-ux-2880-1000.jpg (204KB, 1505x1000px) Image search: [Google]

204KB, 1505x1000px

>>34294011
also important to note that there are often US special forces attached to these "friendlies", especially around Raqqa.

File: ROE.png (687KB, 785x808px) Image search: [Google]

687KB, 785x808px

>>34294095

someone in syria said that ROE was very restrictive

File: american-psycho-w1280.jpg (78KB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 640x360px

>>34293899

>moderate groups

Nice to know we're once again going to war to stop "moderate" terrorists from being bombed. Thanks drumpf.

File: roe2.png (88KB, 771x456px) Image search: [Google]

88KB, 771x456px

i think "defensive" is a bit of a stretch in this case

File: FA18E Super Hornet refuel.jpg (540KB, 2100x1474px) Image search: [Google]

540KB, 2100x1474px

>>34294106
That makes a lot of sense, actually. Shoot down (possible) attacking aircraft to defend American Special Forces? I can see that.

File: 1495506590725.jpg (25KB, 299x289px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 299x289px

>tfw MSM is reporting they dropped bombs ON coalition forces

>>34294021

Sure, they're on JWICS/SIPR.

>>34294116
Vatnik rentboy detected

>>34294146
Of course they are, they gotta keep up the narrative that Assad is literally Brown Hitler.

I don't much care for the man myself, but the world is much better off with him in power than whatever chucklefuck the rebels would put in charge.

File: DCoVytXXYAAFfSg.jpg (140KB, 750x932px) Image search: [Google]

140KB, 750x932px

BEIRUT, LEBANON (11:45 P.M.) – The U.S. Coalition released a statement tonight, accusing the Syrian Air Force of attacking the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) at the town of Ja’ydeen in western Al-Raqqa.

In response to the Syrian Air Force’s attack, the U.S. claimed it had warned the latter about approaching this area before downing the jet near the Islamic State stronghold of Resafa.

“At 6:43 P.M., a Syrian regime Su-22 dropped bombs near SDF fighters south of Tabqah and, in accordance with rules of engagement and in collective self-defense and Coalition partnered forces, was immediately shot down by a U.S. F/A-18E Super Horne,” the Coalition’s statement read.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/18/middleeast/iran-launches-missiles-into-syria/index.html

Meanwhile the Iranians are launching missiles into Syria. Anyone know if those are ballistic or cruise missiles.

>>34293964
They are actually not that bad in person

>>34293899
>moderate

>>34294106
Probably this. Besides the fact that it makes sense for them to be around it's also a perfect excuse to blow anything out of the sky in case it comes to close. Basically 2 in 1.

>>34294183
KURDS

>>34294181

https://twitter.com/GhorbaniSadegh/status/876516638669058048/video/1

here are videos of them being launched

File: DCojWCSUwAACmtO.jpg large.jpg (227KB, 1280x739px) Image search: [Google]

227KB, 1280x739px

>>34294181
>>34294208

mid range ballistic missiles

File: 1437107917521.jpg (150KB, 800x1016px) Image search: [Google]

150KB, 800x1016px

>>34294127
>>34294183
>>34294016
>>34293964
>>34293899

kurds are fuking atheists get with the program /k/.

File: ZOLFAQAR-960x400.jpg (72KB, 960x400px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 960x400px

>>34294181

>Anyone know if those are ballistic or cruise missiles.

Ballistic ones. The very new Zulfiqar/Zolfaghar SRBM. Has a range of 700-750 kilometers.

File: 206806-Missiles!.jpg (38KB, 620x349px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 620x349px

>>34294208
photo from the launch site

>>34294239
kurds are secular

File: DCoU-Z3W0AEW9Yo.jpg (140KB, 750x932px) Image search: [Google]

140KB, 750x932px

>What's the rational behind this
We told them not to advance near SDF positions.
They decided to bomb it instead.
Big mistake.

File: idf solider in disguse.jpg (113KB, 800x534px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 800x534px

>>34293240

Simple: prevent ISIS from threatening Baghdad again. If Baghdad were to fall, it would be an immense diplomatic disaster on par with the Fall of Saigon or the Iranian Hostage Crisis. Trump (and Obama, at the very end of his term) have realized they need to bargain with the Shias as a result.

In the field, this means only setting some broad red lines (don't attack ISF or FSA forces, no gas) and dealing out punishments for those who break it. However, there are no broader things like a no fly zone or strategic bombings, so Assad himself is not directly threatened.

Over the long term this will result in Iraq falling further into Iran's orbit, eventually allowing Tehran to have a massive coalition all the way to the Mediterranean which will give them enormous leverage over Turkey (especially if they recognize Kurdistan), Saudi Arabia and Israel. Bibi in particular is not happy with these developments, but even he understands that it is inevitable, Obama sowed the seeds for this five years ago with the Arab Spring.

>>34294222
Checked

I wonder if they are testing something, trying to send a message or DeirEzzor is in trouble.

>>34294257
kek fucking IRGC

>>34294295
>Obama sowed the seeds for this five years ago with the Arab Spring
wut

>>34293899
Hahahahaha

>>34293240

It's super easy.

The US is tasked with carrying the foreign policy of Israeli and Saudi interests, whose main objective is the neutralization of Iran.

Syria is just a speed bump on their way to Iran, and this buffer zone in Al Tanf is designed to cut the Syrians and Lebanese off from Iran and create a permanent Sunni rump state.

>>34294295

>In the field, this means only setting some broad red lines (don't attack ISF or FSA forces, no gas) and dealing out punishments for those who break it.

"Punishment" is a good word to use here. Remember that even the SAA is still an Arab military, which means Arab tier shit happens sometimes. This includes hot shot pilots doing something chauvinistic (dropping bombs near American backed forces) as a dick waiving thing independent of their orders. As a result, it's only reasonable to issue punishments on an individual, case-by-case basis rather blowing up the entire Assad regime which would only cause more problems.

It's stupid but so is Arab culture. You'd have to go there to understand the mentality, which exists even amongst the few people there capable and trusted to fly aircraft.

>>34294334

>>34294334

>arab spring was about muh freedum and demucrucy
>brutal dictatorships had been maintaining order
>people started fighting brutal dictatorships
>groups much like local gangs formed
>cannot establish new govt. because everybody wants to be in charge
>powervacuum.jpeg
>now all of the arab nations are falling apart with no leadership
>USA is quick to send guns, but not put someone in power

File: 1484784679093.jpg (234KB, 1024x1704px) Image search: [Google]

234KB, 1024x1704px

>>34293899

>Moderate groups

Good goy. You've been well groomed.

We need to destroy the Syrian regime to protect our Judeo-Christian freedumbs.

>>34294347
>which exists even amongst the few people there capable and trusted to fly aircraft.

I don't think they have an unusually small number of people capable and trusted to fly aircraft. Syria is a modern country. Or was. It was just a third-rate country.

>>34294106

Except they did diddly squat when the Turks were dropping artillery on US special forces attached to Kurds just a month back.

>>34293916
I thought Trump was a puppet of Putin and working for Russia?

WHO AM I SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE?!?

>>34294334

When Obama first pulled American troops out of Iraq (before the Arab Spring), he let a Shia gain power which infuriated Iraq's largely Sunni population. In order to remain in power, the Shias did increasingly authoritarian things which people did not like. So, when the Arab Spring's "pro freedom" (at least in theory) message spread to Iraq, Sunnis all across the region now had a cause to unite them, which manifested itself as ISIS.

Anyway, there's only two ways ISIS would have ended up: overruning Baghdad, outing the US from the region and instigating a second Iran-Iraq war (which Iran would have likely won) or Baghdad entering some sort of agreement with Tehran for mutual support and protection. Obama chose the latter with the Iran Deal, which is still policy despite all the shit Trump has said about it. So, the current outcome was inevitable the question was if it was going to be a huge mess or just the current large mess it is.

File: DCoQtUdXoAEPzov.jpg large.jpg (359KB, 1212x1523px) Image search: [Google]

359KB, 1212x1523px

>>34294257

Iran rational for missile stikes

File: 1476630066253.jpg (185KB, 1000x1000px) Image search: [Google]

185KB, 1000x1000px

>>34294299

A few of these whizzing right over the heads of the Shartniks flying CAP for ISIS should send a pretty good message to the Orange Cheetoh and his Kike son in law.

>>34294407
>When Obama first pulled American troops out of Iraq (before the Arab Spring), he let a Shia gain power
This wasn't Obama or Bush, the PM Iraq was given the option to sign a security agreement which declined both times by both presidents, they should have done a better job of warning the Iraqi Gov before pulling out

>>34293240
Are we sure the Syrian plane didn't just make an unplanned u-turn into one of our surface to air missiles?

File: frave dishonor.png (3MB, 1564x908px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1564x908px

>>34294432

TOO SOON FAGGOT

>>34294295
>>34294407

Yep, this whole thing is Iran's game now. There's a reason why Bibi had it out for Obama so much (going so far to fucking endorse Romney in the Senate floor, for those who can remember that), because his sheer incompetence at mideast politics handed most of the region over to Iran. Israel can't do shit except wait and watch as Iran's influence slowly marches up to their border.

Not only that, but Iran's influence will extend from the European border (the Mediterranean Sea) all the way to the Gulf of Oman. They'll effectively control the crossroads of the world, and be capable of hitting Israel from all sides in a war.

>>34294009
When has a president ever turned on their campaign promises?

File: DColi8lW0AQtIXs.jpg large.jpg (136KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

136KB, 960x720px

Russia about to do a live fire missile exercise

File: 1496547226035.png (210KB, 500x667px) Image search: [Google]

210KB, 500x667px

>>34294409
>tfw syria is a thinly disguised ballistic missile test site

>>34293899
The SDF is a terrorist organization.

>>34294571
>coalition force and US ally
>terrorist organization

Pick one

>>34294106
>US special forces attached to these "friendlies"
American troops training terrorists.

>>34294584
Pick both. America is illegally operating in Syria, training and supporting anti-Assad terrorist organizations like the SDF.

>>34294463
>They'll effectively control the crossroads of the world, and be capable of hitting Israel from all sides in a war
This is fantasy.

>>34294615
just because something is illegal doesn't mean it isn't right nigger.

Haven't hou heard? The US government can't do anything illegal.

File: 1496807366923.jpg (107KB, 410x398px) Image search: [Google]

107KB, 410x398px

>>34294615

Like how the CIA supported the anti commie afghan terrorists?

>>34294629
>>just because something is illegal doesn't mean it isn't right nigger.
Training and defending SDF terrorists is neither legal nor right. Supporting these terrorists is morally reprehensible.

>>34294623

It'll be possible to drop off a cargo container in Syria and have it in China or India a few days later. It's competitive against the Suez.

>>34294447
There is nothing funny about that image.

File: 1496270182630.jpg (64KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 480x480px

>>34294662

The counter argument is they are just ordinary citizens fighting the evil dictator in their country like ever bodies moral duty

>side with the civil govt who want order through oppression

>side with the uncivil rebels who want freedom through chaos

>>34293937

What is the small rectangular thing on the intake cone?

>>34294697

looks like a camera or sensor, would imagine thermal or otherwise EO/IR such as russian 1st gen FLIR for missile targeting

>>34293899
>moderate

>>34294697
Looks like A TV pod, similar to what the Frogfoot is running. In other words, it is a camera to strike tragets on the ground and observe.

>>34293240
Some special forces JTAC on the ground said "They're shooting at us! Take out that fighter!" and the Hornet pilot pitched a tent in his flight suit.

>>34294708
>>34294722

Reasonable.

Thanks komrades.

>>34294696
>ordinary citizens
That's a funny way to spell "terrorists".

>>34294675
Expanding Iranian influence in Syria doesn't equate with dominance of other regional actors north or south.
Nobody "controls" the Levant.

In regards to "hitting Israel from all sides", the Iranians don't have any friendly proxies in Jordan or Egypt. Main threat for the Israelis remains concentrated in the north.

Is it be wrong to be excited about receent escalation because after 15 years of planes doing nothing but dropping JDAMs on hill tops there's finally some air to air action?

File: 1496606339224.jpg (62KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 600x600px

>>34294735
I bet you think american colonist fighting the british were terrorist too

>>34294781
>these syrian terrorists are just like our founding fathers!
Fuck off McCain.

>>34294696
>>34294735
>>34294781
>>34294798
>he thinks the Syrian opposition is one group
>he thinks Arabs can have a war without it immediately turning into 20 different factions

>>34293916
I thought he was a Russian puppet. What happened to the narrative?!!!

>>34294837
Presidents don't matter. Who they appoint matters, and Trump appointed a bunch of Iran hawks.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/16/white-house-officials-push-for-widening-war-in-syria-over-pentagon-objections/

>>34294807
And all those factions are hardcore islamists. If you really are a "moderate' your fighting for SDF or the government.

>>34293808
Well, Assad bombing the Kurds is a pretty rare occasion, happened like a dozen times in the last couple of years.

Seems like Trump has decided to work more closely with the Kurds. The shia are rallied behind Iran and are so against the US.
The Sunni Arabs are not quite stable and tend to Jihadism, but the Kurds are quite alright.

They are in a positing to become a strong faction both through the Autonomy in Iraq and Syria. Especially so with US support.
So he stepped it up.

>>34293873
Actually Syrian airplanes were aiding ISIS and stalling SDF advance against them.

>>34294858
>Presidents don't matter. Who they appoint matters, and Trump appointed a bunch of Iran hawks.

And?

>>34294407
>he let a Shia gain power which infuriated Iraq's largely Sunni population.
WHY do people keep on parroting this misinformation
Iraq is a majority SHIA country, the sunnis are the largest minority.

>>34294807
>if the terrorists are split into many factions, that somehow makes them not terrorists
They're terrorists.

>>34294897
Iran hawks want the US to fight Iran. So they're pushing to engage Assad and his Iranian support.

>>34293899

>coalition moderate groups

You mean the guys that used to be called AlQaida , now called Al-Nusra, those guys?

>>34294898
Iraq is 65% Shia.

File: casio-g-shock-watches-awgm100-1a-large.jpg (116KB, 711x800px) Image search: [Google]

116KB, 711x800px

>>34294898

That being said, there are a ton of sunnis and even more "shias". Like many, many people, so just because one percentage is higher than the the other doesn't mean things will work out in the end like it's a global politics PC game.

That huge sunni minority really, really didn't want to see the "shia" gain power and suffer retribution, death squads, heavy sectarian corruption, and collusion with Iran.

>>34293953
YPG and YPJ cooporate with SAA very often, western YPG reinforced Raqqa front by going from north west Syria through SAA territory's highway to Raqqa. Manbij is also partially occupied by a joint Kurdish/Government force, and Kurds helped SAA in Aleppo.

The SDF forces that are having minor clashes with the SAA doesn't seem to be kurds, but some of the Free Syrian Army people who are allied with the SDF.

>>34293932 >>34293953 >>34294056
In the last couple of weeks the SAA has done a few bombing runs against the SDF.
definitely not a mistake. With decisive SAA-Iranian victories, they are slowly turning to the kurds.

this one of the recent ones:
BREAKING: Syrian Air Force bombs US allies in Raqqa province
08/06/2017
https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/breaking-syrian-air-force-bombs-us-allies-raqqa-province/

>>34294571
The SDF did more than Assad in combating ISIS, in fact, the state of ISIS in Syria, which is next to obliterated, is thanks to the Kurds, not Assad.

>>34293240
Fake News
a
k
e

N
e
w
s

>>34294960
>Manbij is also partially occupied by a joint Kurdish/Government force
That's just false.

>western YPG reinforced Raqqa front by going from north west Syria through SAA territory's highway to Raqqa.
Source? sounds like you're confused with things that happened a couple of years back.

>The SDF forces that are having minor clashes with the SAA doesn't seem to be kurds
There were no clashes till the SyAF started to bomb the SDF from time to time.

File: Capture9.png (827KB, 1280x871px) Image search: [Google]

827KB, 1280x871px

>>34294960
>YPG and YPJ cooporate with SAA very often
The Syrian government, Iranians, and Russians have soured on the Kurds for a host of reasons. It was expedient to support them, but their usefulness has run out lately.
>aka
"What are you talking about, comrade? We have always been at war with Eastasia... I mean, the PYD."

>>34294424
Wrong. Obama insisted on the Iraqi parliament signing the agreement, which he knew they never would. This gave him a good PR excuse to pull troops out of Iraq. Previous to this all agreements were made exclusively between Bush and al-Maliki.

>>34294987
ISIS _AND_ the SDF are terrorists.

>>34295024
You wish.

>>34293240
It's all about the petrodollar, just like the whole series of wars in the middle east have been, along with the "Arab Spring" and destabilization of the ME. If the petrodollar goes away and the world stops trading in USD, then bye bye USA and bye bye to everything all the scumsucking politicians have worked to build (corruption and self-enrichment)

>>34295085
>everyone I don't like is a terrorist.

Reallity is Iranian militias are much more closer to being terrorists than the SDF that formed to stop ISIS from advancing, capturing cities full of civilians and enslaving women.

While Assad wouldn't lift a finger, or a bomber to help the Kurd cities against ISIS, the SDF was formed.

Now Assad provides CAS to ISIS and bombs the Kurds, suddenly bombing planes are abundant...

>>34294571
>>34294183
>>34294127
>>34294016
>>34293964
Got this straight from wikifuckia, still, they seem like a good gang.

"Founded in October 2015, the SDF states its mission as fighting to create a secular, democratic and federal Syria"

>>34295117
If the Arab spring was an American ploy, then how come Iran supported the rebellion against Guadaffi and the MB one in Egypt, also the revolt in Tunisia that sparked it all?

Are they also an American puppet?

>Iran on Tuesday congratulated the Libyan people after rebels overran the capital Tripoli, saying the rebellion there indicated the necessity of submitting to the "legitimate demands of the people."

>"The Islamic Republic of Iran congratulates the Muslim people of Libya whose firm stand in recent months portrayed another symbol of popular movements in the region," a foreign ministry statement carried by the official IRNA news agency said.

>"The popular uprising in Libya once again showed that submitting to the legitimate demands of the people and respecting their opinions is an undeniable necessity," the statement said.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/98710/

Now straight from Iranian state media:

>“We congratulate the great Egyptian nation on this victory and we share their happiness,” Iranian Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi said in a statement issued on Friday following Hosni Mubarak’s resignation from the presidency.

>Larijani also said that the events in Egypt and Tunisia are a wake-up call for other dictators who suppress their people and ignore their demands.

http://en.mehrnews.com/news/44608/Iran-congratulates-Egyptian-nation-on-great-victory

Get a clue, stop following Iranian propaganda that shifts with the wind.

When was the last time a manned aircraft shot down another manned aircraft?

>>34295250
Turkey killed a Russian jet last year?

>all this muslim and Russian asspain

Kek. We will keep tomahwaking Syria, keep bombing your shit tier Iranian allies, and keep shooting down your shit tier planes and there is nothing you can do about it.

Nothing.

Parts of Syria are not longer assads. They will never be.

Get used to it

>>34295250
A Turkish F-16 shot down a Syrian MiG-23 in 2014. Dunno about anything more recent.

>>34295259
That was a ground missile though.

>>34295269
Thanks.

>>34293899
Source?

>>34295284

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Russian_Sukhoi_Su-24_shootdown

Meant 2015 sorry.

>>34294100
Then our useless cuck of a POTUS will talk about how awesome Russia (read: Putin) is.

>>34295296
The Washington Post. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/06/18/a-u-s-aircraft-has-shot-down-a-syrian-government-jet-over-northern-syria-pentagon-says/

>>34295200
what are you on about? Iran being ambiguous is completely irrelevant. Are you drunk?

>>34295199
>the terrorists say they're good guys
Go figure.

>>34295131
>SDF and ISIS don't like each other, therefore SDF isn't terrorist
ISIS doesn't have a monopoly on being terrorists.

>>34295269
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Russian_Sukhoi_Su-24_shootdown
>>34295303

This was more recent. 2015 vs. 2014. But today's was the first for the U.S. since the 90's.

>>34295330
>muh terrorists

Every side has committed atrocities. Russia supports one side, US another.

Realpolitik is not allowed though, when 'boos get involved

>>34295369
Every side doesn't commit atrocities to the same degree, though SDF has clearly been one of the more restrained partners in the conflict.

File: IMG_1723.jpg (205KB, 750x932px) Image search: [Google]

205KB, 750x932px

>>34293808

>>34294697
>>34294708
>>34294722
It's apparently a Fon-1400 laser rangefinder/"marked target seeker." (I'm assuming that means it can't designate targets but it can track targets designated by other aircraft/ground forces and lock weapons on to them.)

>>34294395
maddow

>>34295401
>Every side doesn't commit atrocities to the same degree

Isis aside, yes, pretty much every side has committed atrocities to the same degree.

That's a shit tier moral argument BTW.

>INB4 Russiaboos clamor to post anecdotal random SAA shit

Guaranteed pottery

>>34294411
>A few of these whizzing right over the heads of the Shartniks flying CAP for ISIS should send a pretty good message to the Orange Cheetoh and his Kike son in law.
What kind of message could they possibly hope to send? We're antagonizing you bomb us now? Seriously, how are they going to be intimidated by Iran's shitty medium ranged BMs.

File: turkish embassy.jpg (29KB, 500x370px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 500x370px

>>34294571
>>34294585
>>34294615
>>34294662
>>34294735
>>34294798
>>34294907
>>34295085
>>34295330
I can smell your disgusting, greasy body through the internet.

>>34294873
Lucky We're talking about the ADD then.

>>34294928
So it would follow that Trump is also... You can do this.

>>34295669
*SDF

>make moves towards SDF positions
>get told to fuck off
>bomb SDF positions anyway

AMERICA WHY DID YOU SHOOT US DOWN REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

File: Non-Stop Nakba.png (768KB, 871x1542px) Image search: [Google]

768KB, 871x1542px

US is just honoring the long, proud history of the Syrian """"air force"""" of getting shot down

This has a deep, rich history in Syria. Respect it, bigots

>>34294164
>Gaddafi is bad
>Topple him
>5 years later
>Gaddafi was better than what's in Libya now
t. media

Watch as this repeats itself if/when Assad is toppled.

>>34293937
Tell me about Su17, why does he wear the shock cone?

>>34295565
I'm a white American you dunce. Why the hell would Turks care if America bombs Syrians?

>>34295903
That's not the problem here, the problem is that we're supporting the SDF

>>34295565
>you have to be a t*rk to hate the Moderate Beheaders™
It would probably fuck with your head to realize that turkey supports the FSA

>>34295565
Turkey supports the FSA, and they're your buddies

>>34295369
>Realpolitik
Exactly

And that's what makes me mad. It's all a whole shekel gambit, and it's this that's causing rapefugees and terrorist attacks.

>>34294491
What am I looking at?

File: amusement.jpg (258KB, 1024x848px) Image search: [Google]

258KB, 1024x848px

>>34296451
>>34296462
>>34296484
>FSA = SDF meme again
Nice try, Turkroach.

>>34296676
It's another faction serving to destabilize Syria and continue this clusterfuck

And in what world do you believe that a t*rk would support Assad?

>>34294491
Its not an exercise. They always claim an exercise for a NOTAM/NOSAIL before they conduct missile strikes.

File: 1496150901346.jpg (125KB, 1224x1445px) Image search: [Google]

125KB, 1224x1445px

>>34293873
Muh "USA IS HELPING ISIS !!1!11!11!!!!" Meme

File: 1497769746017.jpg (72KB, 300x319px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 300x319px

>>34293977
RUSIA STRONK
AMERIPIG LIES

File: 15541343_10153983352016105_814447218649580473_n.jpg (72KB, 960x922px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 960x922px

>>34294571
"herp derp left is right, up is down, and fucking my cousin isnt incest."

>>34296574
Either that or Russia having the ability or/and the will to run rampant over east Europe.

Also, it's really not the fault of the US that Europe opened its legs to the immigrants. It did not ask them to, or even imply for them to, nor is the US not taking any but the most qualified.

File: images.jpg (9KB, 300x168px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 300x168px

>>34296451
Turkroach confirmed. REMOVE>

>>34295906
>all these years after vietnam and the f4 is still getting shot down by a mig21 or a sam system
Just...

>>34294176
>Syrian regime Su-22 dropped bombs near SDF fighters south of Tabqah
Sounds like Assad was trolling the US and seeing what he could get away with. The correct answer is nothing, here's a missile.

Seems reasonable to me, if you let him drop bombs 'near' SDF then the next one is ON SDF and he'll be like 'oops, missed the bad guys you were fighting'. Opps, missed again. Oops, accidentally hit your HQ.

Best to nip it in the bud.

>>34294183
Kurds are bros. Honestly, they should carve out their own piece of Turkey, Syria and Iraq and join the primetime nation building game but no one will ever let them and everyone puts the boot into them to keep their puppet states in power.

>>34294391
>Except they did diddly squat when the Turks were dropping artillery on US special forces attached to Kurds just a month back.
Turkey is real fucking NATO, you can't exactly shoot them down without consequences. You can do what the fuck you like to SAA though, who's going to complain, Russia? What will they do, spout some memes, ask for proofs and not interfere in your election next time?

>>34294409
>Iran rational for missile strikes
That seems a very reasonable casus belli

>>34294496
>syria is a thinly disguised ballistic missile test site
To be fair, so is every warzone ever but yeah, that may be a factor, it's always nice when you get an opportunity to try untested weapons against actual defending forces but not ones that can actually use such weapons back at you.

>>34296704
>>It's another faction serving to destabilize Syria and continue this clusterfuck
>thread is about forces friendly to the US under threat from bombs and the US defending them
>a paradigm that's existed since the 1950's
>turkroach pretends like this isn't all old hat
>turkroach insists that the SDF is a terrorist faction
>actually called the USA supporter of terrorism earlier in the thread
>turkroach still expects to be taken seriously

>>34294640
Exactly like that, actually.

In the last 30 years how much money and arms have we dumped in to various "moderate opposition" groups only to have them immediately turn on us?

>>34294378
It's common knowledge, whether you trust common knowledge or not, that native Arabs usually don't have what it takes to graduate from Western flight schools, and no other schools are really worth attending because you need to trust these guys with million-dollar pieces of tech. The king of Jordan was known for not only graduating, but also being liked by his teachers.

>>34297674
i've flown with Saudi pilots in training. they're not great. the African ones were better, mainly in terms of attitude/they gave a fuck. the Saudis were all princes. there were a few decent Saudis, but they were far and few between and they are the cream of the crop. even they are frustrated that they're not being used as much as they could be due to Saudi AF culture.

>>34294675
And run over an American destroyer along the way.

>>34294946
The guys who did the whole "friendship ended with ISIS, now Turks and Israel are my best friend" thing?

>>34294463
t. JIDF

>>34297217
>kurds
>subset of middle easterner
>being capable of anything more than tribalism, ever

pick one, faggot. they're the next taliban, mark my fucking words.

>>34297713
Current student. I haven't ever actually flown with Saudis, but at least on the ground 80% of Saudis are assholes with terrible attitudes. Perform horribly and never get attrited because their government is footing the bill.

>>34295324
>“We congratulate the great Egyptian nation on this victory and we share their happiness,” Iranian Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi said in a statement issued on Friday following Hosni Mubarak’s resignation from the presidency.

Ambiguous.

lol

Iranian lackeys just can't stop lying. This isn't /pol/ sweety. Iran supported the Arab spring in every single Sunni country that was tearing itself apart. Until it hit their Syrian allies.
Then it became a "Jewish plot".
And you swallowed it.

>>34294676
>seamen
>drowning inside a ship
>because a cargo container hit you
>in the middle of a vast empty ocean
There is a lot of things funny in that image anon

>>34295330
>ISIS advances in the east
>Syrian state leaves Kurdish cities to die
>Doesn't even bother to bomb ISIS columns moving plainly in the desert
>Kurds create their own forces, and with US air support manage to save a bunch of their civilians, some of their cities, and strike back against ISIS.

anon cries, how dare the Kurds fight against ISIS. Everyone who doesn't worship Iran is a terrorist.

>>34295455
>Isis aside, yes, pretty much every side has committed atrocities to the same degree.

Not even close to being true. Even if perhaps it's for the sole reason that they have no ability to do so, the Kurds have not bombed civilians.

Everyone else has.

>>34296574
>and it's this that's causing rapefugees and terrorist attacks.
Stopping ISIS from advancing, taking back towns and cities allowing for civilians to return somehow causes refugees?

The Kurds secured a pretty large swath of land, which is now a pretty safe space to live in, instead of being ISIS controlled.

How is that a bad thing? I swear...

>>34298880
>burger supports literal communist terrorists
>burger helps create ISIS by invading Iraq for no reason then has gall to say Assad helped create ISIS
>burger doesn't bomb ISIS oil convoys until Russia does it in 2015
>burger only bombs to help Kurds meanwhile supplies millions in weapons to moderate beheaders, wonders why Kurds are doing better

>>34298914
>supports literal Shia Islamists
>Where did I say Assad helped create ISIS, are you retarded?
>Assad doesn't bomb ISIS oil convoys either, hardly bombs ISIS at all while they are ravaging cities full of civilians in eastern Syria.
>Shia Islamist is mad, they left the Kurds to die, yet the plan failed.

>After IS's retreat, locals return to Kobane to find crushed homes and basic infrastructure lacking, but are in no hurry to become refugees again
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/tens-thousands-return-home-destroyed-kobane-497530897

This is a bad thing in the eyes of the Shia Islamist, he'd rather those non Shia Kurds would have gone to Europe.

>>34298934
>hardly bombs ISIS at all
Yeah, they're just currently advancing steadily on two fronts against the turds. I'm not sure if you understand it, but Syria isn't exactly as militarily capable as the United States. Their airforce is already depleted and in poor shape, even before the US decided strike an airfield because "muh moderate beheaders". They do not have the capabilities for effective bombardment and even at this stage most notable bombings are performed by the RuAF.

File: spoils_of_war.png (472KB, 399x523px) Image search: [Google]

472KB, 399x523px

>>34298880
>>34298934
I still attest that he's a filthy Turk who's just mad that the Kurds are being treated like humans.

I say this because he said, "literal communist terrorists," and as far as I know only Turks give two shits about the PKK or anything barely related to it.

>also he's lumping in the Iraqi Peshmerga in with the YPG
>despite the Peshmerga disliking the YPG
>for being communist

Turks were never known for their amazing intellect.

>>34298944
Perhaps I should have made it more clear but I'm speaking about earlier times.
Now that everyone else is pretty cleared he does focus more on ISIS.
But back when ISIS was advancing against Kurds (few years back) he didn't bother to do shit against miles long ISIS convoys moving through the desert.
He did have enough resources to send bombing runs against that, he just didn't because he was fine with ISIS massacring the Kurds.

>They do not have the capabilities for effective bombardment and even at this stage most notable bombings are performed by the RuAF.

SyAF had the capability to do a few sorties to bomb the Kurds when SAA and Kurds were clashing in Hasakah and Qamshili (back then).
He had the ability to bomb ISIS whenever they advanced on SAA outposts.

But when no SAA outposts were under threat and ISIS is advancing against undefended Syrian cities full of Kurds... suddenly no resources for a single sortie?

Stop being funny, Assad left the Kurds to die to ISIS, didn't even bother to do the minimum to stop the Jihadi advance, and now is crying that the Kurds didn't actually die.

Frankly, Assad did the smart move, he is guaranteed legitimacy fighting against ISIS. So it's ""best"" for him to have ISIS left as the sole enemy.

>>34299058
>Assad left the Kurds to die to ISIS
But I never claimed that. I just pointed out that they're not specificially ignoring ISIS, just letting two enemies fight eachother, as is smart.

>>34299064
So when Syria let's isis fight the kurds its smart when when the US let's the SAA fight isis its evil?

>>34299077
Nice strawman, dingus.
>when the US let's the SAA fight isis its evil?
Tell me again what the US is doing in Syria? Setting up moderate beheaders in an attempt to destabilize and overthrow yet another government? Bombing government forces in conjunction with ISIS operations, allowing the latter to advance? After half the world realising that the FSA doesn't actually exist as a coherent fighting force, move onto Kurds, to add to the enemies of the government and prolong the war?

>>34299104
How is that a strawman?

How is what Syria did to the kurds logically different than what the US did to Syria? Because you root for Syria?

>>34299376
Because at no point did I speak of "evil", you cum-guzzling fucktard.
>How is what Syria did to the kurds logically different than what the US did to Syria?
Because it's Syria, not the US of A. The US is in the country without its' government's acceptance and is working actively to destabilize it, supporting Islamic rebels and terror groups.

>>34299419
>Because it's Syria, not the US of A. working actively to destabilize it
Ayyy lmao, the Syrian government controls like 1/3rd of its nominal territory and fully half of the pre-war population have fled the country by this point, you can't "destabilize" what is already a failed state.

They have about as much legitimacy as Somalia's government at this point, except Somalia's government at least aren't international pariahs for gassing their own people.

File: there was an attempt.png (1MB, 1211x1051px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1211x1051px

>>34299441
>Ayyy lmao, the Syrian government controls like 1/3rd of its nominal territory
Yeah, because most of the areas they don't control is desert and less inhabited. Have you ever taken a look at a map of the country? All that striped ground is desert.
>and fully half of the pre-war population have fled the country by this point
Bollocks. 4.8 million recognized "Syrian" refugees, but considering half the migrant fuckers claim to be Syrian without any evidence (conveniently lost identification), there's no trusting that number.
>, you can't "destabilize" what is already a failed state.
The US has been at it since the Arab Spring. What do you think the civil war is, if not destabilization? The SAA is also actively winning the civil war with Russian help, with "moderate" beheaders having only a few solid enclaves left and being completely unable to wage offensive operations, especially after the resent Hama debacle. ISIS is being pushed on multiple fronts, still hasn't managed to take Deir ez-Zor and the Kurds are only where they are because the US is actively bombing, bombarding, supplying and helping them in every way possible.
https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/16792
https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/18328#source
>The best way to help Israel deal with Iran's growing nuclear capability is to help the people of Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad.
>They have about as much legitimacy as Somalia's government at this point,
According to whom? The very people trying to undermine them, overthrow them and replace them either with worthless puppets or Islamist extremists?
>except Somalia's government at least aren't international pariahs for gassing their own people.
Yeah, false flag attacks and singular artillery strikes with chemicals sure are "gassing their own people".

Are you American, by any chance? To summarise the world's views on American political attitudes; you people are to politics what fudds are to firearms.

>>34299472
>Yeah, false flag attacks and singular artillery strikes with chemicals sure are "gassing their own people".
Are they false flag attacks or singular artillery strikes?
Also lol, "I only gassed them a little mister UN, I swears"

File: roflbot.jpg (53KB, 480x472px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 480x472px

>>34293240
Finally, and so it begins....

>>34295199
If you believe that, you're a fucking idiot

File: 1497528130672.jpg (354KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

354KB, 1920x1080px

>>34299504
>Are they false flag attacks or singular artillery strikes?
Both, retard. "and" is inclusive, not exclusive.
>Also lol, "I only gassed them a little mister UN, I swears"
No intentional, organized gassing ordered by any leader of any importance has occured. As much as Western MSM and NATO leadership likes to blame Assad personally for some fucknut in Damascus not knowing the difference between chemical rockets and HE ones, doesn't mean the giraffeman is to blame. The most recent Khan Seikhyun "attack" was also almost certainly a false flag attack. Using gas in a singular point, with a singular weapon, on civilians, away from militarily valuable targets makes absolutely no fucking sense. Especially so, since the rebels claimed that the explosive impact site was the result of air-dropped gas munitions, that should deploy in air and leave no such impact crater. Even more so, since the rebels denied neutral UN investigator access to the site.

>>34297030
IIRC the Syrians claimed it to be a MiG-23 kill.
And the Israelis got A2A kills with fucking Skyhawks, using cannon and unguided rockets.

>>34299522
>No intentional, gassing has occured
I mixed the Sarin binary compounds (methylphosphonyl difluoride, and an isopropyl alcohol/isopropyl amine blend) in their mixing vat, initiated the proper mixing procedure, loaded the resulting Sarin into the shell/bomb, chose a target, loaded and fired it, all within the allotted time (because Sarin has a very short shelf life)

WHOOPSIE-DAISY, how clumsy of me

>>34299525
>unguided rockets
the fuck was that, a real life reenactment of a war thunder arcade match?

>>34299539
The Israelis were flying Realistic with target and lead indicators, a minimap (AWACS support), and good visibility. The Syrians were flying Simulator, into the sun, in uptiered aircraft, and outnumbered.
GG EZ no re.

But really, the Israeli pilots were trained so much better than the Syrians that they could actually get on the tail and spam rockets in at least 1 case.

>>34299548
spitfires are still cancer

File: 1485717757962.png (96KB, 355x433px) Image search: [Google]

96KB, 355x433px

>>34299538
>Soviet-era M-14 chemical rockets require the Sarin to be mixed in a vat before firing

>>34299548
> Israeli pilots were trained so much better
I'd hope so, having personally seen the amount of of air time those fuckheads get weekly.

>>34293737
>>34293737
really? i see it as just the opposite. we are in a unique advantage of our military constantly being battle tested

when was the last time the chink army was battle tested?

>>34299064
>I just pointed out that they're not specificially ignoring ISIS, just letting two enemies fight eachother, as is smart.

I agree with you. It was the smart move if you're willing to watch as cities full of 'Syrian' civilians get slaughtered by ISIS.

Leaving the Kurds to die left Assad without any legitimacy to rule over them. If the state refuses to defend you against the likes of ISIS and leaves you to your own devices, it's done. Assad has no right to come knocking now expecting the Kurds to bend the knee.

I am against what the USA is doing at Al Tanf, though I think it was the Iranians who botched it with stupid overconfidence, I mean what do you expect would happen if you're sending your militias at an USA base, they should have went for the walk around from the get go and just ignored the Americans. Smart vs Right.

But in the North, the Kurds have 100% justification to strive for independence. They should have gotten a state when the ME was divvied up back in the start of the last century. Saudi influence prevented that and the land was given to Arab rulers instead.
But they should be getting a state now.

>>34299557
Storytime

>>34299575
>cities full of 'Syrian' civilians get slaughtered by ISIS.
ISIS to date has not slaughtered any cities. They are trying to build a caliphate, an Islamic state. Hard to do that if you've got no people.
>Leaving the Kurds to die left Assad without any legitimacy to rule over them. If the state refuses to defend you against the likes of ISIS and leaves you to your own devices, it's done
Defend them? Leaving them to die? The Kurds have been advancing AGAINST ISIS for years now, if I recall correctly, and are now actively threatening governmental rule in the nation and before that the SAA was about to collapse, before the Russian intervention. You either know nothing of the conflict or are delusional, to spout these falsehoods like that.

>>34295432
>It's apparently a Fon-1400 laser rangefinder

Well, if plane on pic is Su-22M4 version (which I assume it is, since Syria bought them in 80.) then it's Klon-54PS, fully capable of designate targets (it was used together with Kh-29L /AS-14 Kedge missiles).

Fon1400 was used in older versions of Fitters, namely Su-20 and Su-22M/M2

>>34299472
>Bollocks. 4.8 million recognized "Syrian" refugees

You're wrong. Sure in Europe many are faking being Syrians, but just in refugee camps directly on Syria's borders:
3 mil in Turkey
1.5 mil in Lebanon
660k Jordan
250k Iraq
120k Egyp

Total of 5.5 mil, UN registered refugees that came straight out of Syria into neighboring countries
http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/download.php?id=13262
http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/country.php?id=224

There are at least several hundreds of thousands in the west, likely over a million in all honesty, and some more dispersed in other Arab countries.
On top of that, this is just UN registered numbers, Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan and the rest are claiming the real numbers are a somewhat higher, so that's a few more hundreds of thousands.

I'd say there are about 7-7.5mil Syrians outside of Syria. About a third of the prewar population.

File: erdogan happy.jpg (24KB, 454x305px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 454x305px

>>34293240
>mfw all my opposition is so incompetent that they can't last 5 minutes without starting conflicts with each other

So Erdogan is basically winning now? He has the ES territory and is having Turkish companies build cities there, the government and Russia stopped bombing Idlib when he told them to and now the SAA and the SDF are going to fight each other too.

>>34299582
I served as an avionics technician on apaches in the IAF. end of storytime

>>34299663
>avionics technician
דרג ב?

>>34299669
א

File: EU4.jpg (102KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 800x600px

>>34299643
>Erdogan can get away with all kinds of undemocratic shit because America needs Incirlik Air Base and the Yuros need him cooperate on refugees
>Gets to annex a little chunk of Syria

So he's pretty happy about that, but

>Probably won't get to overthrow Assad
>Kurds in Iraq and Syria have more autonomy and major foreign backing

So it's a mixed bag for him

>>34293899
>Implying there's a difference
The only good sand nigger is a sand nigger. That or one who has assimilated into American culture.

>>34299681
>The only good sand nigger is a sand nigger
Good to see that there is still some tolerance and acceptance on this board!

>>34299670
So you really had to deal with the fuckers.
הטובים לטייס" עלאק"

>>34299594
>ISIS to date has not slaughtered any cities
Actually, they pretty much have or tried to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinjar_massacre

Funny how the Assad supporters are now bringing arguments like
>ISIS isn't really that bad.

>Defend them? Leaving them to die? The Kurds have been advancing AGAINST ISIS for years now
2014 and 2015, just a couple years ago, the Kurds were getting run over by ISIS, many of them getting butchered or kidnapped. Assad, the Syrian goverment have not lifted a finger to defend the Kurdish civilians against ISIS.

How horrible it must be to Assad supporters that the Kurds managed to beat back ISIS and are now advancing against them.
How are the Kurds threatening Assad when their offensive is against ISIS?

You're basically saying the Kurds are in the wrong for defending themselves, against ISIS no less, while the government left them to perish.

Yeah, it tends to destabilize a nation when you leave a large portion of your civilians to fend for themselves against an Islamist invasion. Said people will not walk meekly back and bend the knee to those who've left them to die.

>>34295950

Question is, will Russia pussy out and allow that to happen.

>>34299845
They might be forced to, their reserves sit at around 40 billion dollars from 400 just a couple of years ago and are declining.

>>34293818
>tfw you voted for Trump because he seemed like the anti-war candidate

>>34299872
I voted for Trump because I wanted him to defeat Iran. Not my fault that Russia wants to act as their body armor.

>>34299845

they don't really have a choice, something they can do however is hand over more S-300s to the SAA, maybe even lease a few S-400s to put pressure on American air assets.

After all the Syrians are in their absolute right to target jets that they deem to be violating sovereign air space.

>>34294021
>Royal
>on an American anything

ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING

>>34294091
I thought it was shot in the SDF area? Why is there the rebel flag on this vid?

>>34294021
>royal maces
>their symbol is a morning star, not a mace

File: 1497532796495.jpg (790KB, 1920x1153px) Image search: [Google]

790KB, 1920x1153px

>>34299733
>Actually, they pretty much have or tried to:
No. Targeting a specific group is an attempt at genocide, not "slaughtering cities". They're trying to build a nation, as I said, they aren't mongols.
>Funny how the Assad supporters are now bringing arguments like
What makes you think I'm an Assad supporter and what does that have to do with anything?
>2014 and 2015, just a couple years ago, the Kurds were getting run over by ISIS, many of them getting butchered or kidnapped
Yeah, like the SAA was getting run over by the rebels. The SAA simply did not have the capabilities to stop ISIS, as they barely had the capabilities to keep themselves alive.
>Assad, the Syrian goverment have not lifted a finger to defend the Kurdish civilians against ISIS.
Except that the SAA has cooperated with "Rojava" many times. Regardless of the fact that the Kurds are a capable fighting force on their own and not the weak, undefended civilians your text paints them as.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rojava%E2%80%93Syria_relations
>How are the Kurds threatening Assad when their offensive is against ISIS?
I said threatening government rule, not Assad. Stop strawmanning. The Kurds are nationalistic and seek independence. The more US support and land they claim, the better their chances at negotiating, blackmailing and making their own claims are.
>You're basically saying the Kurds are in the wrong for defending themselves, against ISIS no less, while the government left them to perish.
YOU are the only one who has spoken about "wrong" here, retard. Stop strawmanning, stop projecting your juvenile moral values onto international geopolitics and stop putting words into my mouth.
>Yeah, it tends to destabilize a nation when you leave a large portion of your civilians to fend for themselves against an Islamist invasion
Leave? Do you think the SAA did not fight? That many of the SAA itself did not join the islamist rebels?
Are you a Kurd, or utterly ignorant of the conflict?

>>34294106
>to these "friendlies",

If American boots aren't being shot on sight they are very friendly by ME standards.

File: 1492482424767.png (5KB, 200x180px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 200x180px

>>34294011
>ROE is to attack anybody launching attacks NEAR American "friendlies"
As the other anon seemed to imply, "friendlies" means units with SOF attached.
>ISIS is the greatest threat to regional and worldwide peace and security
Oh wow the propaganda.

>>34299943
>>ISIS is the greatest threat to regional and worldwide peace and security
>Oh wow the propaganda.

This^

It's fucking Russia and everybody knows it, thankfully their country is collapsing on their own but damn they've done so much damage to the world.

>>34299953
>It's fucking Russia
As-fucking-if. The greatest threat to peace and security are national interests of every major nation. USA, KSA, Iran, Russia, China and the list goes on. A desert shithole like ISIS can't match the amount of trouble Russia causes with its might and Russia can't match the amount of trouble the US/NATO can and do cause with its might.

>>34299419
>Because at no point did I speak of "evil", you cum-guzzling fucktard.

It seems you are the one strawmanning now. So you view America's actions as morally neutral?

>>34300137
>It seems you are the one strawmanning now
You clearly have no idea of what a strawman is. Go look it up.
>So you view America's actions as morally neutral?
I view them dependent on the context and point of view. To me they have mostly been harmful, considering the refugee issues caused and furthened by US actions.

>>34299927
>No. Targeting a specific group is an attempt at genocide, not "slaughtering cities

You're agreeing with me. They want a nation of Sunni Arabs and target anyone else, Yazidi, Kurds and Assyrians. This happened both in Iraq and Syria.
>Claims ISIS doesn't try to butcher whole cities
>Gets an example where it happened
>Whining.

>What makes you think I'm an Assad supporter and what does that have to do with anything?
You claimed the Kurds are destabilizing Syria, when all they have done was fight back an ISIS invasion against their cities when the government left them to their own devices.
Rather disingenuous.

>Except that the SAA has cooperated with "Rojava" many times.
Only to protect themselves, never to protect Syrian Kurds.
Why didn't the SAA bombed ISIS advance against Kobane for example, or anywhere outside DEZ and Hasakah for that matter, where ISIS was advancing against Kurdish villages.

>Regardless of the fact that the Kurds are a capable fighting force on their own and not the weak, undefended civilians your text paints them as.
The Kurds had next to no organized fighting force, nothing to challenge or stop ISIS. ISIS was fast advancing through their lands (pic related), it took US bombings, Peshmerga and PKK assistance and training for the Syrian Kurds to stop the ISIS offensive.
How can you say they not weak when they were being destroyed on all fronts, and only managed to survive through massive outside help?
Learn some history, you're only looking at the current state while the situation was very different just a few years ago.

>>34294358
Meanwhile muzzies are knocking each other off in record numbers.

While systematically destroying their own countries.

Does anyone still think this was a bad idea?

File: 1497479835688.png (151KB, 499x435px) Image search: [Google]

151KB, 499x435px

>>34293899
(((moderates)))

ISIS in different flavors is still ISIS. Assad will win anyways he is winning on so many front and ISIS and their knock off brands are in full damage control on all fronts.

File: 1494611442410.jpg (94KB, 602x709px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 602x709px

>>34295199
Do you genuinely believe this fucks!

>>34294874
>Kurds are quite alright

They've been committing an ethic cleansing of Christians in Kurdistan, Kurds are absolute scum bags

>>34295267
>That whole post

You do know ISIS and friends are getting their ass beat, even with all the US help right?

>>34293977
>bomber from the 60's with no air to air armament and no radar against against an air superiority fighter from 1997.

How did the slavs lose?

File: 0zuy4bz2qroy.gif (2MB, 660x545px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 660x545px

>>34300182
>Gets an example
88 000 people in the city and "thousands" were killed. That is not "slaughtering cities", dingus.
>You claimed the Kurds are destabilizing Syria, when all they have done was fight back an ISIS invasion against their cities when the government left them to their own devices.
>You claimed the Kurds are destabilizing Syria,
No I did not. I said the US is destabilizing Syria by setting up moderate beheaders. What the Kurds are doing is threatening the government's rule over the land by being a notable fighting force with US support and many nationalistic ambitions.
>disingenuous.
No, it is not. If anything is disingenuous, it is your continous attempts at misrepresenting my statements by outright lying, or making up claims I never said. You've done it in most of your posts in this argument so far.
>Only to protect themselves, neverKurds.
You will have to provide further argumentation and evidence for this claim, because I see no reason why fighting the ISIS forces attacking Kurdish regions is not protecting Syrian Kurds as well, or why the Kurds would not be included in the general effort to fight ISIS and other rebels.
>Why didn't the SAA bombed ISIS advance against Kobane
Because the YPG rebelled and took over control of the town and the general area, combined with the SAA's precarious, losing position at the time. There was no reason to waste limited air power on helping insurrectionists who had not woved any sort of loyalty to the state.
> ISIS was fast advancing through their lands (pic related), it took US bombings, Peshmerga and PKK assistance and training for the Syrian Kurds to stop the ISIS offensive.
Just like the rebels and ISIS were fast advancing through government held lands, pic related.
>How can you say...
How can you expect the government to help rebels when the former was being destroyed on all fronts and only managed to survive through massive outside help?

>>34299927
>The Kurds are nationalistic and seek independence. The more US support and land they claim, the better their chances at negotiating

Assad is the Syrian government, betrayed the Kurds, left them to their own devices against an ISIS invasion.
He has no legitimacy left to rule them. The Kurds independently fended for themselves and won their independence why would they bend the knee to a rules that doesn't care if they just die and wouldn't lift a finger to defend them?

>stop projecting your juvenile moral values onto international geopolitics.
This is not about morals kid. It's about legitimacy. You're encouraging SAA to start a new conflict with the Kurds, and this is supposed to 'stabilize' Syria?

How do you justify Assad bombing the SDF forces engaged in a fight with ISIS?
When it was ISIS who started the conflict in the first place. This is supposedly stabilizing Syria?

Quit the pretense, Assad trying to bend the Kurds under his control is only going to create a lot more chaos and instability, as well as new waves of refugees. If stability is what you're looking for, then an independent Kurdish state is where it's at.

>Do you think the SAA did not fight?
Seems like you are the ignorant one, the SAA withdrew from much of the eastern provinces very early in the war to concentrate effort around the Shia and Alawi parts as well as Damascus.
That's completely rational and I do not fault them for that. However refusing to send any bombing runs against ISIS when they were advancing against Kurdish cities... that's less justifiable.

If the civilians don't get protection from the state, then they owe no allegiance to it either.

>>34293977
It's a shitty ass SU-22 from the early 60s VS a fairly modern Fighter no shit that was gonna happen. I'm more surprised people still use them to be honest.

>>34300197
>everyone in syria I don't like is ISIS!!!!!

Did you know that if the SDF crosses the deconfliction line they get shrieked?

>>34300235
>Assad is the Syrian government, betrayed the Kurds, left them to their own devices against an ISIS invasion.
>He has no legitimacy left to rule them. The Kurds independently fended for themselves and won their independence why would they bend the knee to a rules that doesn't care if they just die and wouldn't lift a finger to defend them?
Why are you talking of this from a moralistic standpoint like a child? At no point have I spoken of what is wrong or what is right, yet you seemingly insist on injecting your moral viewpoints into this, as if they were worthy as arguments. Stop it.
>It's about legitimacy
No it's not, it's about power. Those with power do whatever the fuck they want.
>You're encouraging SAA to start a new conflict with the Kurds, and this is supposed to 'stabilize' Syria?
Stop putting words into my mouth or I'll stop having this joke of an argument with you.
>How do you justify Assad bombing the SDF forces engaged in a fight with ISIS?
It does not need justification. I am not interested in petty, subjective statements of "justice". One man's justice is another's crime. Especially so in international geopolitics, where morality does not matter for shit.
>However refusing to send any bombing runs against ISIS when they were advancing against Kurdish cities... that's less justifiable.
Refusing? Did the Kurds ever ask for them? Was the SAA even capable of those operations at that point in the war? Hell, the SAA had just earlier been defeated and pushed out of East Aleppo. They were thoroughly out of the fight in that region.
>If the civilians don't get protection from the state, then they owe no allegiance to it either.
The civilians declared de facto rule over themselves and stopped being "civilians" before ISIS had reached anywhere near them. The YPG chose to declare its own rule in the area and thus the the responsibilities AND failures of defending against the ISIS advance falls on them.

>>34293240
Assad's forces are attacking Kurdish positions.

https://twitter.com/Ararat_Krd/status/876751699742003204

>>34294874
>Syrian airplanes were aiding ISIS
Nice Kurdish propaganda there. More likely the SDF got intermingled with IS units, and by the time the bombs drop, the SAA pilot couldn't tell the difference at 10k feet. Kurds cry to SF FAC, so FAC calls it up.CMD makes the call and NEETS second guess actions 48hrs old.
Shit Happens.

>>34300197
>Thinking anyone cares what happens to Isis.

When you wipe your ass, do you keep the toilet paper for sentimental reasons?

>>34300248
Keep pretending their moderates, like how the Mujahdeen in Afghanistan were a good idea, or the Rebels in Libya were a good idea. This is all Americas fault for backing and supporting these groups, have you not learned a thing from history.

File: FA18EF Super Hornet RAAF Sept 2014.jpg (2MB, 3600x2346px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3600x2346px

>>34300214
FA18E isn't an air superiority fighter. Its a multirole fighter.

>>34300263
I have no fucking clue what your trying to say with that post?

>>34300265
I'm not one of /k/s airplane lovers but I know that plane is still leagues better than an SU-22.

Thanks for correcting me though.

>>34300253
>getting upset at moral arguments
>was bleating about """muh moderate memeheaders""" like a wounded dog

Kek

>>34300270
You seem to think that the US gives a shit who wins. Personally I think the longer that conflict goes on the happier everyone outside of the Middle East will be.

I'm guessing a war between Iran and Saudi Arabia might even be possible.

File: 1388470654573.jpg (39KB, 400x399px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 400x399px

>>34300275
Haha loll :DDDDDDDDDDDD look at me mommy i make good argumnent :D

I hope for your sake you're underage and not just stupid. Have a nice life, it was a pain trying to discuss things with you.

>>34300264
Kek.

The muj cucked Soviets out of Afghanistan, the Libyans cucked Gaddafi to death.

Everyone funds unsavory groups. Welcome to international politics

>>34294928
>Iran hawks want the US to fight Iran.
Assuming you are right, why do you think this is?
Iran effectively runs Iraq now ya know. Iran was inside Iraq training Sadr forces and fighting US troops since '07. The shia majority govt basically created ISIS when they marginalized the Sunni minority in the govt and massacred all those Sunni protesters in '13 thus pushing them further into the folds of AQI who then split into ISIS.
Obama govt cozies up to Iran, except, 'Oh shit', Iran sends Hezbollah to support Assad. Obama can't have that so he sends weapons to a subgroup of FSA...who then later defect to ISIS with weapons.
Shitshow ensues.

>>34300296
>Iran effectively runs Iraq now ya know.
Iran was run out Iraq by us advisors.

>>34300285
>gets called out on his bullshit
>goes full sperg

WEW lad.

are you guys ready for war?
Russians declared Russian operated areas in Syria a no-go zone for any Anti-Isis-Coalition planes

source: russian state news agency
http://tass.com/defense/952119

>>34300170
>To me they have mostly been harmful, considering the refugee issues caused and furthened by US actions.


>>blaming America for your country opening its legs to rapeugees

The only country you have to blame is your own.

>>34300333
I never said I don't blame the gutless, spineless pieces of shit as well. They just weren't relevant enough to the Syrian conflict to mention.

>>34300329
>Russian operated areas
So what, tartus and a few airbases near it?

>>34300265
It often takes an air superiority role, but yes obviously a Su22 and a F/A 18E are in the same class, can't see how the Su22 lost this one

>>34294105

underrated post

>>34300336
>the home country who is the direct cause of the refugee problem in that country is not that problem.

Conflicts in the ME always had a metric fuckton of refugees. Don't blame the US for yuropes retardation in letting them in this time.

>>34300226
>That is not "slaughtering cities"

>10,000 enslaved
>5000 killed
>The rest run away up a mountain pursued by ISIS and were only saved through international aid and Kurdish offensive.

ISIS did their very best and it was disastrous. or is 5,000 killed 10,000 taken not a slaughter enough for you? Does it not count as slaughter till the last resident dies?
You're just pulling my leg now.

>I said the US is destabilizing Syria by setting up moderate beheaders.
Adding irrelevant information, we're discussing the SDF.

>What the Kurds are doing is threatening the government's rule over the land
The goverment forfeighted the rule over the land and the people living them when they abandoned them in the face of an Islamist invasion, and later refused to lift a finger to help them stop the ISIS onslaught.
SAA waging a new war against the Kurds would be a huge destabilizing act.

>outright lying
>making up claims I never said
Please, quote me.
You're deeply misinformed zealot, thinking that starting a new SAA vs Kurd conflict is somehow going to create stability. That's quite amazing.

>why fighting the ISIS forces attacking Kurdish regions is not protecting Syrian Kurds as well

This is from your own link:
>On December 31, 2013, as YPG units were locked in large-scale and bloody fighting around the jihadist stronghold of Tall Hamis, Kurdish sources reported that government forces simultaneously attacked a YPG checkpoint in the Hasakah neighbourhood of Kallasah and an Asayish checkpoint in nearby Tall Hajar neighbourhood.

Unlike in the rest of Syria, early in the conflict the SAA quickly withdrew from all of Eastern Syria but a few large bases and the Arab parts of their adjustment cities, leaving the countryside all together.
Most of the SAA enclaves are in the east for that exact reasons. The SAA defended itself.

>>34294463
>Yep, this whole thing is Iran's game now.
THIS.
Iran runs everything east, west to the border, and south of Baghdad. Assad knows this, which is why he pushed allll the way to the Iraqi border to secure those precious supply lines.

>>34300243
The F18E is one of the most modern fighters out there (1997), the F35 is possibly the only fighter jet that is newer

>>34300347
Iraqi governmental forces are making steady pace just like SAA forces did. Northern Iraq won't stay in Iran's hands, or is the government of Iraq going to choose Iran over the US

>>34293937
this fucking guys has no socks

>>34299882
>"Iran needs to be defeated, they arm terrorists!"
>Gives a billion dollars worth of weapons to Saudi Arabia, sponsor of ISIS and the spreading of extremely radical Islam throughout Europe
I will never understand this logic.

>>34300226
>Because the YPG rebelled and took over control of the town and the general area
The YPG does not represent the Kurdish people, and it certainly did not represent them then.
Furthermore, the YPG primarily combated FSA and Nusra forces in the region not the SAA. The Kurdish ruling councils have yet to declare for the rebellion to this day.

So it is as I said, the SAA has left the Kurds to defend themselves.

>Just like the rebels and ISIS were fast advancing through government held lands, pic related.
Your pic shows that ISIS has mostly advanced in rebel held lands in the North and vs the Kurds (your pic actually started too late). Most of the land the Kurds took from the gov in 2014 was empty desert.

>How can you expect the government to help rebels when the former was being destroyed on all fronts and only managed to survive through massive outside help?
The Kurdish civilians were not rebellious, as I've shown the Kurdish elected officials have never joined the rebellion.
How do I expect the SAA to protect their civilians? The same way they did in other parts of Syria, it's ok to fail, it's not ok to refuse to try. The SAA didn't bother bombing ISIS convoys moving through the desert.

>>34300358
SA government is not funding Isis, segments of it's populace is.

That's like blaming the US government for arming IRA.

>>34296676
it's not so far fetched considering the FSA and the Kurds were aligned during the Kobane liberation and they have been aligned on many occasions since.

File: 1464867269647.jpg (5KB, 200x278px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 200x278px

>>34300345
>ISIS did their very best and it was disastrous. or is 5,000 killed 10,000 taken not a slaughter enough for you? Does it not count as slaughter till the last resident dies?
>You're just pulling my leg now.
Because they were targeting Yezidis, not the entire city.
>Adding irrelevant information, we're discussing the SDF.
What in the flying fuck are you talking about? Go read up the chain if you can't keep any of it in memory.
>The goverment forfeighted the rule over the land and the people living them when they abandoned them in the face of an Islamist invasion
They proclaimed rule before ISIS got anywhere close, retard. They even rebelled back in 2004 but got put down.
>Please, quote me.
Okay, here:
>You're deeply misinformed zealot, thinking that starting a new SAA vs Kurd conflict is somehow going to create stability
I've never said anything like that. Do you have actual, genuine brain issues, or are you intentionally just shitposting, making claims of my arguments and statements, as if anyone couldn't just scroll up a little and see for themselves?
>Most of the SAA enclaves are in the east for that exact reasons. The SAA defended itself.
Because the SAA was unable to defend anything there, it cut its necessary losses and defended what it could. Had they abandoned the major cities in the West and chosen to fight in the desert, the nation would already have fallen under Islamist rule.
>The same way they did in other parts of Syria, it's ok to fail, it's not ok to refuse to try.
Why the fuck not? They had no way to actually defend all that land. It was impossible. Trying was synonymous to losing the war. Are you saying the SAA should have intentionally lost and thus betrayed the people entirely, abandoning the reason they exist in the first place?

I'm just going to stop this discussion here, since all you're doing is strawmanning continuously and repeating the same points. You're clearly either unable or uninterested in having a good, honest argument.

>>34297234
>Not bombing the shit out of your (((allies))) for behaving like petty children.

>>34300382
>You're clearly either unable or uninterested in having a good, honest argument.

>>>started with memes about the rebels

Hmmmm, gets the noggin joggin

>>34293240

>What's the rationale behind this

ZOG

>>34300405
>serious discussions can't have funny memes
Fuck off.
I was referring to the way anon is a disingenuous cocksucker who can't make a single post without strawmanning. My posts are right there for him to read, yet he can't reply to them correctly?

>>34300350
The J-20, F-22 and some F15 variants are newer (sorta) - but your point remains valid. The FA18E is a very competent multi role fighter, while the SU22 is an older attack aircraft with little air to air capability.

>>34300308
ya tell it to the PMU and General Qasim Suleimani

>>34300373
The Saudi government has the same ideology as ISIS and only officially started hostilities with them like last year (after ISIS said they would behead the king of SA). They routinely arm the allies of ISIS and Al Queda, who often trade those weapons among each other (not between ISIS and Al Queda, obviously). They are also committing a genocide in Yemen.

File: assad kek.jpg (33KB, 480x564px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 480x564px

>>34294239
>communists
>moderate

lel no

>>34299564
were only learning bad habits against these insurgent forces, ground troops think they should call in air support at the first sign of trouble but during an actual real-deal war that luxury will not exist when the enemy actually has an air force.

>>34300354
Northern Iraq belongs to the kurds. Everything North of Kirkuk(PDK) with Kirkuk to Sulimenay(PUK).
>is the government of Iraq going to choose Iran over the US
The govt of Iraq is a majority Shia. They are trying to keep the kurds isolated from the US. They never pay the Kurds the money owed them from oil revenues and they have consistently kept US arms flows from the Kurds. There is no more Iraq in practical terms. It's been balkanized.

>>34299684

underrated post #2

>>34300488
So tolerant

>>34300449
>The Saudi government has the same ideology as ISIS

Again, that's like saying the US government has the same ideology as the IRA, therfore it armed them.

The rest is pure unsubstantiated garbage.

>>34300416
>>34300416
>accuse other of strawmanning yet stammer out memes every post

Wew lad, I can do this all day.

>>34300436
Im am directly referring to suleimeme getting BTFO of Iraq and replaced by nameless us advisors, by Iraq itself.

>>34300503

its a grammar gag you overly serious trout fucker

i'm not joking i hope you have children and they get tortured and murdered in front of you by your best friend who is actually secretly a serial killer

File: pepe smug turkey.jpg (217KB, 505x744px) Image search: [Google]

217KB, 505x744px

>>34300457
>Syria spends the last 3 decades arming Kurdish groups to fuck up Turkey and secede from the country because it's part of NATO
>Now NATO is using those same Kurds to fuck up Syria and have them secede from it

Poetic justice

>>34300485
The same could be said of Syria, if you want to go the Balkanized route.

What I mean is the kurds and Iraq forces will eventually link up, and drive ISIS out, except there will be no deconfliction zone due to US forces being on both sides, thus the country stands a chance of becoming whole.

Same can't be said of Syria. US forces are not leaving the kurds, and Syria can't attack or even attack near US forces without being stopped.

It would be apocalyptic for the SAA if they actually killed US forces.

>>34300479
>using support assets is a bad habit

In what fucking world?

File: 1495946247139.gif (1MB, 500x350px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 500x350px

>>34294176
Read that as F/A-18E Super Horny

>>34300518
Your statement makes no sense. Spouting memes has nothing to do with making logical fallacies in an argument.

Strawman:
>Person 1 makes claim Y.
>Person 2 restates person 1’s claim (in a distorted way).
>Person 2 attacks the distorted version of the claim.
>Therefore, claim Y is false.

>>34300557
Growing reliant on assets that are not available in total war is what anon's talking about. Though he's incorrect simply because units are trained to operate with indirect fires as well.

File: 1491277311934.jpg (313KB, 4685x2457px) Image search: [Google]

313KB, 4685x2457px

>>34293899
Well played anon...

File: Give a fuck.jpg (69KB, 675x663px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 675x663px

>>34300528
KEK

>>34300564
>Growing reliant on assets that are not available in total war is what anon's talking about.

There is no argument to be had that us forces are reliant on airpower, and as you stated they have a metric fuckton of fires to choose from.

>>34300564
>Your statement makes no sense.

Let me barney this for you.

You can't expect to have a serious discussion if you are screaming about moderate beheaders every other post.

Bonus points for then chastiseing the other guy for making a moral/emotional argument.

It's not going to happen. So getting upset that he is pulling other logical fallicys (in your opinion) in the face of yours is the height of folly.

>>34300595
>You can't expect to have a serious discussion if you are screaming about moderate beheaders every other post.
Yes I can. I see no reason why a handful of mentions of the supposed moderate opposition as moderate beheaders would exclude a discussion without logical fallacies. When I say serious, I do not mean academic, or politically correct.
>Bonus points for then chastiseing the other guy for making a moral/emotional argument.
Because appeals to emotion and morality are not arguments, especially so when we were never discussing morality or emotions in the first place. He simply chose to insert those things into the discussion without relevance or sense.
>It's not going to happen. So getting upset that he is pulling other logical fallicys -
>n the face of yours is the height of folly.
I am not upset, I was trying to make him stop making logical fallacies so we could have a discussion on the subject, but he chose to continue. To make logical fallacies is to either be stupid and inept, or intentionally and ingenuously attempt to misguide and fool the opposition into thinking you are right. Neither choice makes for appealing conversation.
>(in your opinion)
A strawman is not a question of opinion, anon. Him claiming I said X, when I in fact had said Y is a strawman. It's that simple.

>>34300605
>When I say serious, I do not mean academic, or politically correct.

What exactly do you mean then?

>Because appeals to emotion and morality are not arguments,

Then why adhom about moderate "beheaders" , an emotional argument and a fallicy.

>I was trying to make him stop making logical fallacies so we could have a discussion on the subject

While you adhom. See the problem here?

>>34300523
He doesn't need to be in Iraq to advise the PMU and just because you may have read somewhere that he left Iraq doesn't mean he did. The Iraqi govt can have it's cake and eat it too it it means keeping that sweet western money flowing in.

>>34300633
>He doesn't need to be in Iraq to advise the PMU
Quds force as a whole is gone, friend, and the various previously quds backed militias either went home or take orders from Iraq and are there on their own volition.

>h....he might be hiding!
Fake and gay.

>>34300537
>the kurds and Iraq forces will eventually link up
they already have for the Mosul OP except they weren't going to until Barzani said' All the land we take stays in Kurdistan.', meaning Barzani was gonna keep Mosul. So the Iraqis went in with the Kurds on the east/North flanks and the PMU on the west side.

File: 1493993226750.jpg (733KB, 1600x1131px) Image search: [Google]

733KB, 1600x1131px

>>34300630
>What exactly do you mean then?
A discussion with effort put into it, where both parties attempt to discuss things truthfully and honestly, with some amounts of intellectual rigour, specifically without logical fallacies. Calling the "moderate opposition" moderate beheaders is just a joke. It has no effect on the discussion itself and from the meme it's very clear who I am actually talking of.
>Then why adhom about moderate "beheaders" , an emotional argument and a fallicy.
Anon, please.
>adhom
That is not an ad hominem. An ad hominem is the logical fallacy of a personal attack being used in an attempt to discredit an argument. E.g.: "Anon is a faggot so his statement on the intricasies of nuclear-powered reactors is incorrect".
>emotional argument
It's not an argument, it's an insult and a joke about the various rebel groups in Syria being called moderate for the sake of propaganda and trying to justify Western support to groups, that amongst others, include Al-Qaeda in Syria and many others who are ideologically similiar.
>fallicy
It's not a fallacy at all.
The reason I pointed it out, as I said earlier, is because he suddenly started talking about things from a moral, emotional and "justification" view point, which was utterly irrelevant to the discussion, as I had made no statements pertaining to those points of view.
It's like we were talking about specific techniques of cooking meat and then he suddenly goes on a veganistic tangent about meat being murder.
>While you adhom. See the problem here?
You clearly do not know what an ad hominem is.

>>34300651
>except they weren't going to until

They did. Iraq has a far better chance of becoming whole than Syria. Saying it Balkanized is like calling the US Balkanized. A Kurdish semi autonomous region can exist in Iraq and still have Iraq be whole.