December 8, 1941.
One day after the day of infamy, the United States of America declares war on the Empire of Japan.
You have been nominated by emperor Hirohito and prime minister Tojo to be the chief of the Japanese military.
What is your plan? What does Japan have to do in order to achieve its goals? How to do so?
Utilize muh hindsight to get Manchurian oil
Don't deploy carriers piecemeal
Create an ASW frigate to protect the merchant marine
Keep building Shoukakus, don't fall for the armored flight deck meme
Institute an American-style pilot training program, to lessen training issues over a war of attrition.
Blockade Australia and minimize the number of scattered island garrisons requiring resupply.
Try and nail American carriers with the full might of the Kido Butai, but don't spread them too thin.
Try for a negotiated peace after in late 1942-early 43
I don't want to do your hypothetical scenario.
Was muhreen and am an Murrican.
When I talk to other white people and they say, "I'm Irish", " I'm french" or "I'm from England" etc... I tell them, "that's cool, I'm an American. (German ancestry bitch).
Plus I was an infantry marine, so in honor of my predecessors, allow me to say "fuck you nips you never had a chance".
>Keep building Shoukakus, don't fall for the armored flight deck meme
So instead of the Taiho, they have another Shokaku. I guess that's pretty much all they needed in order to win.
>What is your plan?
Quietly siphon off as many valuables (gold/art/secrets/whatever) as I can and then flee. Most likely to the neutral USSR as its reachable by land based planes from the Japanese home islands and would not actively try to shoot me down, South America would also be options but range and risk of US interception is pose problems.
>would not actively try to shoot me down
Thank Nambu for the shit LMG then tell him to fuck off and commit seppuku, ask Germany for not shit guns, especially sidearms
Don't allow any dumb shogun wannabes, aka no swords. Any person who orders a banzai must commit seppuku to make fuckers realize shit is dumb
start prototypes for higher caliber weapons, discard 8mm
Also if we're talking hindsight, then invent a nuke first. Cancel funding to stupid shit like Unit 731 and put it into W M D research.
>Against the Emperor
Good luck, if the Japanese military command couldn't pull it off the night before the Japanese surrendered, there's no way in hell you're pulling it off.
>Utilize muh hindsight to get Manchurian oil
Japan did not have the industrial capacity to exploit the oil, remember that it took Japan YEARS to get captured fields back up to full production, making entirely new fields would not
>Create an ASW frigate to protect the merchant marine
Japan does not have the industrial capacity to do this.
>Institute an American-style pilot training program, to lessen training issues over a war of attrition.
If your goal is to end the war by early 1943 before American numbers inevitably win this is ineffective at best and harmful at worst.
>Blockade Australia and minimize the number of scattered island garrisons requiring resupply.
The IJN does not have the ship numbers to institute an effective blockade.
>Try for a negotiated peace after in late 1942-early 43
This was the initial RL plan, didn't work out very well.
Rest of the points are vaild.
>What does Japan have to do in order to achieve its goals?
Not getting shrekd in the end and invaded or nuked? I suppose a better submarine fleet, a successor to the Zero, and more aircraft carriers may DELAY the Americans, supply problems for fuel and plain superior numbers of the enemy are bound to be a losing proposition. Also you get nuked in the end. I would just seppuku.
>Doesn't have industrial capacity to do this
Why do you think the Japanese couldn't build their very own Flower-class corvette?
>This was the initial RL plan, didn't work out very well.
My hope is to avoid the situation throughout 1942 like the Coral Sea and Eastern Solomons where Japanese carriers were operating in dinky little pairs and avoid Midway as well.
My hope would be with an intact Kido Butai and a hopefully decimated US carrier force, I could negotiate to give back the Phillipines, play nice with some of the other colonial powers, and call it a day.
>implying the Type 96 LMG and Type 99 LMG were two of the best LMGs in the war
>implying the Type 99 rifle wasn't one of the best in the war
You're fucking dumb. Go educate yourself instead of believing what fudds say.
Where do I start?
>side-arms don't matter at all
>small arms in general barely matter at all
>Only 1 banzai was officially ordered; the rest were small groups of desperate, already defeated troops. Nobody above a sergeant ordered one after Guadalcanal.
Not 300 of them, but I would imagine that such small ships built to merchant standards, using VTEs instead of turbines, could be produced in useful quantities to free up DDs from convoy duties to places where their speed and torpedoes could be better used
If Japan was capable of building merchant-standard ships in large quantities, they would at least have been 100% sufficient in their merchant shipping. Pre-war.
Now fast-forward and they are fighting a war, they need to build warships and planes, and meanwhile their merchant ships are being sunk left and right. I don't see them building 100+ corvettes.
Assuming the coup succeeds, I'll basically hand them the planners of Pearl Harbor and a few of the Unit 731 guys on a silver platter along with a promise to leave Philippines, Australia, Burma, and French Indochina alone, in exchange for non-interference with my conquest of Korea and Manchuko.
That's why I won't stage the coup for at least a few months; long enough for me to build my golden parachute, which will include some overseas assets and significant amounts intel, maybe see if I can get an enigma machine from Hitler too. If it succeeds, then I'll pull resources away from conquering European/American interests in Asia and move it towards modernizing and turning the islands into a fortress to improve my negotiation position. If it fails, then I'm running straight to the US with as many of my conspirators as possible and doing our best to rat out the others/the defenses of the home islands. And since we moved the resources back home for defense, the US won't have to fight through the Pacific as much and can more easily surround and attack the islands. Hopefully, after Japan's quickened defeat, we can set ourselves up as the people to put in place to control the country while the Americans save their nukes for the USSR. All while me and my boys enjoy as much desperate, starving, schoolgirl pussy as possible.
>I'll basically hand them the planners of Pearl Harbor and a few of the Unit 731 guys on a silver platter along with a promise to leave Philippines, Australia, Burma, and French Indochina alone, in exchange for non-interference with my conquest of Korea and Manchuko.
And the US says lol fuck no. What then?
They lost a 6th of their existing merchant shipping in 1942, although they were able to add a good bit of that back on with new builds.
So the answer to your question is as soon as the war fucking started, and your impression is wrong.
Japan had fuck all ability to build warships, they only made 257 warships of all types during the entire war. You still need to repair and replace losses for the Combined Fleet and with numbers that low the spare capacity required to build an escort fleet simply did not exist. You could cancel the battleships (both of them) but is hardly enough capacity freed up to make a real difference.
Really, the only big thing I can do at this point is keep our forces together and smash the enemy. Give up our misadventures in China, they're achieving nothing but a waste of resources. We can worry about China after the war. In the meantime, we direct our efforts southwards. We need to cut off Australia from the Sea Lines of Communication to America. All resources will be used to that effect. Carriers will not be used piecemeal. Japan's doctrine of a decisive battle only works if we don't waste units in frivolous operations.
OP, your shit is dumb.
I would advise Tokugawa or Oda to invade Indonesia, and ethnically cleanse the population, to get all that sweet sweet oil when 1900s come.
Better machine guns
And finally, DONT DECLARE WAR ON THE USA
Japan Merchant Marine as of 1939:
5,996,607 tons / 1,227 ships
1941: 57,758 tons / 12 ships
1942: 1,065,398 tons / 229 ships
1943: 1,820,919 tons / 434 ships
1944: 3,891,019 tons / 969 ships
1945: 1,782,140 tons / 701 ships
TOTAL: 8,617,234 tons / 2,345 ships
They also captured a significant amount of shipping that is not included, still they were losing ships far faster then the replacement rate.
>then invent a nuke first
Who do you buy the Uranium from pal?
Keep in mind at this point China doesn't know it has any.
>implying any slant eyed fuckin gook can stop the sleeping giant from reaching manifest destiny.
The only reason USSR managed to push Germans back was all their armored divisions were transferred from Far East to Moscow.
So, instead of being a nip-eyed cunt, I invade Russia and tag-team the Russkis with my German bros. After USSR falls, then we can play ball with the Murricans.
>The only reason USSR managed to push Germans back was all their armored divisions were transferred from Far East to Moscow.
You mean the thing that never happened? Yeah that was really important.
You are a fucking idiot.
>Sorge is most famous for his service in Japan in 1940 and 1941, when he provided information about Adolf Hitler's plan to attack the Soviet Union, although he did not succeed in finding out the exact date of the attack.
>In mid-September 1941, he informed the Soviet command that Japan was not going to attack the Soviet Union in the near future, which allowed the command to transfer 18 divisions, 1,700 tanks, and over 1,500 aircraft from Siberia and the Far East to the Western Front against Nazi Germany during the most critical months of the Battle for Moscow; one of the turning points of the of World War II.
Avoid conflict as much as possible, stale the war.
Produce anime and make American population decline.
Assuming that is true, and the article's point heavily relies on few sources against a plethora of sources suggesting otherwise, it still shows a great weakness in the Siberian warfare capability. After a full-force Jap invasion, Soviet time will be running out until the Ural factories are breached. Not from land, mind you, Japs wouldn't be stupid enough to cross all the barren lands, but from an amphibious landing because they still held the naval physical and psychological advantage over the Russians from their devastating 1908 Russo-Japanese War.
>Alright then. Time to smoke some opium and fuck geisha up the ass until Japan gets nuked
I think we have a consensus. What would a 1940's Japman use for anal lube?
but chinese don't have fa
ha i see what you did there.
> implying japan pre Meiji had the capability of projecting into Indonesia
They could barely manage getting into Korea and as soon as Yi Sun Shin figured that out he went HAM on their navy. No way they could have projected down to Indonesia. They shouldn't have even bothered with the 2nd sino japanese war to begin with.
Use my advanced knowledge of foresight to develop nuclear weapons.
Nuke all American ships.
Nuke West Coast.
Nuke Los Alamos where US Nuclear project is ongoing.
Keep Nuking America until there is radioactive dust under every blade of grass.
>a plethora of sources suggesting otherwise
Name a single one.
> it still shows a great weakness in the Siberian warfare capability. After a full-force Jap invasion, Soviet time will be running out until the Ural factories are breached
Japs had 5 divisions to spare for the entire southern strategy with the rest tied up in China. What makes you think they could come up with more for Siberia?
>What does Japan have to do in order to achieve its goals?
Military communism. Never failed.
If serious, their Navy and Army had really, REALLY weird relationships. Army begin invasion in China without order, letters with threats to Yamamoto, e.t.c. Japan high command was a huge clusterfuck. So, first of all - purge them all. Then increase encryption, of course. And then let Yamamoto do his god damn job.
>Name a single one.
>Immediately after the attack, Moscow called on Sorge to report on the Japanese government’s policy regarding the German-Soviet war. The point was this: if Japan decided to attack the Soviet Far East, a grave situation would become vastly—perhaps fatally—worse. The Soviet Union might not survive a two-front war.
>Japan was deeply engaged in war in China; but China had vast strategic depth and there was no end in sight. Germany’s victories in Western Europe opened the door for Japan to advance into the resource-rich French, Dutch, and British colonies in Southeast Asia. On the other hand, Hitler’s invasion of Russia invited Japan to strike north into Siberia and the Soviet Far East. Japan, bogged down in China, could not strike south and north. It would have to choose.
>Less than a week after the German attack, Sorge reported that Japan had decided to send troops into French Indochina; that Ozaki believed Japan would wait to see how the German-Soviet war developed; that it would attack north if the Red Army were quickly defeated; but that Ott believed Japan would not attack north for the time being. Stalin’s signature at the bottom of this document indicates that the supreme leader read Sorge’s dispatch, not just a summary of it.
Author of the source:
>Stuart D. Goldman is the Scholar in Residence at the National Council for Eurasian and East European Research. Goldman spent a year in Tokyo as a Japan Foundation Fellow researching Soviet-Japanese conflict in the 1930s. His book on the subject will be published by the U.S. Naval Institute Press in 2011.
>with the rest tied up in China.
There you go. Chinese didn't have the counterattack initiative as they were politically splintered among themselves. Defend Manchuria and watch the Chinks fight.
Japs didn't need to push further than Singapore, which decimated the Brits stationed in SE Asia already.
You do realize people can just check your links and find out you're lying in like 2 minutes, right?
Pretty pathetic that you have to lie on the internet. Nobody knows who you are. It doesn't matter if you make a dumb fucking post.
>And then let Yamamoto do his god damn job.
What could go wrong?
Stop using Bansai Charges and Kamikazes, Use lot of submarines to destroy supply and warships and lot of Zeroes to destroy other US airplanes. Without supplies US would find difficult to achive victory in pacific, so little by little they would return to America opening the door to us for a surprise attack in any of US coast
>use foresight and foreskin to kill every US carrier in the pacific, or being built in the pacific
>keep resetting time until I get an outcome of 4+ US fleet carriers sunk in war opening attack, at most only one of my carriers is damaged for 4 months
>pearl harbor won't be as suprisy as it was, but it will be bigger. main targets = airfields, hangars, and fuel not BBs.
>cheap scheme to destroy panama canal. no serious resources allocated
>constantly make fun of FDR's wheelchair while hopefully maintaining the early pace of damage
>after 3 or so major operations, hopefully enough was destroyed to get a "peace"
>reset time machine immediately if "pic happens"
Get the fuck out of China
Iwo Jima every island
Bomb Pearl Harbour a second time because dead Americans are good Americans
Convert every aircraft into kamikazes
Mass produce kamikaze planes and AA guns
Place shit ton more AA guns on ships and islands
Spam kamikazes towards their carriers
After their carriers are destroyed destroy the rest of their navy with help from more kamikazes.
Get to the US mainland
Kill all men
Make females sex and work slaves
Nearly 100 posts, and not one decent solution. Are we too patriotic and proud to be objective or was that shitty little isle really that doomed?
I mean, they did prompt one of the greatest fleets this planet has ever seen. It was a wrathful force as well. Not the melancholy in the Atlantic where sailors pondered how much the u boater was like him in civilian life and if they would indeed be good friends.
>fuck that shit (obvious oorah talk now)
>ambien taking effect
These slant eyed japs spooked us on a Sunday morning and blew up some really big ships that in the were kinda shitty anyway. These people are not civil, and they will not be treated as such! Every fucker no matter how shitty his duty was, worked it hard because wanted to see his better load time result in more dead Tojos. My grandfather was on a fleet supply ship, and he hated the Japs until he died.
Pretty hard to change much at this point. In 1935 though you would change a lot.
Let me just add a few:
- force development of Zero replacement
- force production of 100mm DP guns
- replace the awful 25mm AA guns with something else
They were doomed in the first place. If you want to win a war, you would have to have the resources needed to keep the war machine rolling for as long as necessary. Imperial Japan never had that luxury in the first place which is why they tried to force America to the negotiation table by attacking Pearl.
They may have one of the greatest fleets but can they sustain it?
The correct answer is basically "win at Midway". With a second major defeat of the US Navy, Japan's position would have been fairly dominant. A negotiated piece would have been possible at that point, with the Pacific Fleet in tatters and the IJN in possession of every Pacific island besides Hawaii. US would have signed a peace treaty to keep Hawaii.
I don't think the US would easily accept their new Nippon overlords that easily. If anything, that would just kick US industrial capacity to overdrive and shit out ships/planes faster.
The war will be longer though.
That's easy to say from the present. Historical events always look inevitable in hindsight, but a series of shocking defeats in the Pacific could well have convinced America that it wasn't worth spending the next four years building ships just to hang on to some shitty desert island. Each carrier lost sorry of counts double: it's both one more ship you have to rebuild, and one less ship you have to protect what's left of your fleet. Naval wars are very 'swingy' in this way - bad luck can screw you over much more than on land, where even a defeated army retreats with a lot of its strength intact.
Come on. The only hard thing there would be getting to Indonesia. Other than that, it would be easy Indonesians cant fight for shit and were super far behind. Korean guns were also better than the Japanese ones.
I propose smuggling weapons and mudslimes into USA to start an insurgency there, instead of doing pearl harbour. Prevent america from declaring war on Japan. Invade Malaysia, while allying with Brits to do a half hearted attack on Germany.
>Tank killing tanks, and also, infantry killing tanks.
>AR15s and better HMGs. Stanardised ammuniton.
>Upscale the use of sub machine guns
The US was pumping out 8 fleet carriers a year starting from late-42, not including all the escorts for them.
If midway turned out badly, the US would simple "turtle up" and instead of mounting the Solomons invasion, hold the line in Australia.
Wait two years then come back with 16 new fleet carriers and 9 light carriers while Japan would commission only 2 new carriers between the end of 42 and 44.
Te re-enact the turkey shoot on a grander scale.
I can only imagine how well an invasion of Australia, without jungles to hide in. The Sherman was more dominant over Japanese armor than any German big cat was, and It would outnumber the Japanese armor too.
The US was making 8 carriers a year explicitly because the Pacific war seemed winnable. Think of it in the opposite terms: a reversal at Midway would have left the usn six months behind the IJN in carriers. Considering what they did in the first 90 days, what would the war situation have looked like by the time the US was back up to parity?
I know economics is a powerful force in warfare, and in ww2 it was decisive, but the outcomes on the ground mattered a lot more than you're giving them credit for. If it was just a matter of production capacity, we would just count up our factories and declare a winner, and avoid all the messy dying and such.
The US would just go on the defensive, turning to its submarine fleet to stall the Japanese advances. Also, the distances between Midway and the nearest US soil was very long the Japanese would have a hard time staging an offensive from there, not to mention the already over-extended supply chain of the Japanese. Midway as a staging ground or even an outpost is useless for them. The Japanese will have a hard time consolidating the victory at Midway while America will just kick her industries to overdrive and shit out planes/ships faster. The Essex class will come earlier, Hellcats, Avengers, Corsairs will be put in service more rapidly, etc. By the time the USN have rebuilt itself, the IJN may have only built like a couple more carriers plus a few handful of new ship class.
>Considering what they did in the first 90 days
They grabbed undefended colonies near by. Such low-hanging fruit was gone by Midway, and any other conquest would have been done with stretched supply lines against prepared defenses. I agree with you that the deterministic view is retarded, but Japs weren't exactly in position to make use of a naval advantage.
Just an FYI people who say they are French English or Irish are also likely at least 40-50% Germanic (higher if French due to the huge explosion of Frankish and Burgundian rule) due to Anglo-Saxon Norman and Viking dalliances in those countries
More funding into developing nuclear arms. Hi friend germany gib scientist please. K thnx. Less colonizing asia. Apoligize to the US. This was a big mistake. Pay for repairs etc.
After developing nuclear capability do nothing with it but threaten other countries if they dont stop the war.
The US was making 8 fleet carriers a year because that's what they planned in 1940 with the two ocean navy act.
The plan allocated 8.5 billion for 18 new carriers, 7 battleships, and 5 battlecruisers by late 1945, with the cruisers and destroyers to support them.
Essex and 4 of her sisters, as well as all 10 North Carolina/South Dakota/Iowa were already laid down in the 8 months before Pearl Harbor. So the war did not actually increase the rate of American capital ship building significantly, most of the extra money went to destroyers and cruiser. In practice, the Montana orders were cancelled and Alaska orders reduced in favor of more Iowa and Essex.
I'd say that Japan started too late, after America already started building the armada that would do them in. The moment the Two Ocean Navy Act was even proposed Japan was on the clock and needed to move as soon as possible. Sure they would be down 2 carriers and the Yamato, but the late 1930's were when the gap between Japan and the US was the smallest. The 18 month building time of new capital ships would have given Japan far more time to prosecute the war than starting when over a dozen new capital ships were already under construction and less than a year from commissioning.
By December 8th 1941 Japan had already lost. They needed to start December 8th of 1939 to have a chance at negotiated peace.
The only producers of uranium in quantities enough to build a bomb in 1939 were the US, Australia, and Canada.
None of them would sell to Japan, so good luck getting your hands on enough to do basic research, nevermind building a bomb
Ok. Don't colonize Asia. Invade Australia and steal the uranium..
Well no idea. There's not much to do after the attack on PH. If it was before this time point it would be better.
>tfw even Ian thinks highly of the jap machine guns
> invade Australia
> how do I logistics?
> How do I not die to local wildlife?
Japan did not have the logistics to supply a force big enough to invade Australia.
Japan only earmarked 6 divisions for the entire SEA campaign when the Aussies alone could muster up 7 in 1939 with British and Americans on the way fairly quickly.
Take all the islands we just took over and blow them the fuck up.
Just load up all the dynamite and explode the fuck out of them.
Limit the resupply route for the Navy and sue for peace. Hold Manchuria.
Sino-German cooperation until 1941
US supporting this strategy and destroyed Europe continent
Natural resources from China and Money from US destroyed Europe.
also, Europe lost their colony in Asia because of ww2
A battlecruiser would have firepower of a BB and armor closer to BB than to CA. Alaska had the fire of the HMS Dreadnought and armor closer to the Baltimore-class than to the Iowa.
It's basically impossible. Unless I, as sudden inexplicable powerful leader of a horribly disunited Cabinet government, are able to successfully convince the vested interests of the Army and Navy to withdraw from China and retreat to Manchuria, whilst successfully ripping away the Europeans colonies in S.E.A, then maybe I can get a deal from the U.S.A which only involves Japan signing away a the rights to the colonies I just invaded whilst protecting Japans monopolies in Korea and Japan.
If your asking if I can get ALL of Japan's war time goals in 1941, then I submit that it is impossible.