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blunder of the century, or misunderstood genius?
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons

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blunder of the century, or misunderstood genius?
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>>28907393
Pretty safe as far as rotorcraft go.
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>>28907393
Not worth discussing

Shilled for and shilled against

Essentially bait
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>>28907393
two word
GYROSCOPIC EFFECT

the concept of a til rotor is a fault concept
they should man up and finish develop a til jet
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>engines only have 400 hours TBO
>they have to pull engines of the aircraft on the production line because there is a shortage for operating aircraft.
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>>28907393
It started out with a really rough record, but all of the problem that made it notorious have been fixed. It actually has a better record than the Blawk Hawk now and crashes less frequently.

It's a great idea that had a rough start that is now refined and does its job very well. Nothing else in the world has all of the capabilities that the V-22 has.
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>>28907437
this
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>>28907393

>blunder of the century, or misunderstood genius?

So far it is an misunderstood genius as you put it. The good safety record and its performance makes it a good aircraft.
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>>28907393
Safer than most military helicopters, faster, and longer ranged.

Not maneuverable enough for helicopter style fire support
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>>28907459
>they should man up and finish develop a til jet
>I have no idea what I'm talking about: the post
Jets are horrible for VTOL. There's a reason why the F-35B uses a lift fan and not a jet for VTOL.
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>>28907472
>but all of the problem that made it notorious have been fixed.
And then it crashes because the air filter for the intake doesn't work, and was known not to work...

>Nothing else in the world has all of the capabilities that the V-22 has.
Other than every stol aircraft in the world.
Unless capability means "Burn money"
Imagine how maintenance heavy this thing will be once its more than a handful of years old
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>>28907393
>Not as good as its cheerleaders claimed it would be.
>Nowhere near as bad as its detractors claimed it would be.
>Will continue to perform its job but not be a wunderwaffe or failure.
It's the same as the Bradley and F-16.
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>>28907524
Keep drinking the koolaid and being ignorant.
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>>28907524
disingenuous the post
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>>28907531
I was thinking the other day, is it perhaps too big?
Could a single-rotor tiltroter aircraft be made?
That would it could be more general use while still having a huge range boost over the venerable brackhahk, great for supply to remote locations.
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>>28907508
>Jets are horrible for VTOL. There's a reason why the F-35B uses a lift fan and not a jet for VTOL.
i am talking about a operational til jet like the Bell Model 65
not a VTOL thurst vectoring with lift fan like the F-35B
>>
It was called for because of the failure of the Iran Hostage Rescue Mission.

The computers needed to get it to fly safely did not exist until the late 90s. Understanding of tilt rotor flight was poor. As the last tilt rotor craft were from the 50s and 60s.

It came under scrutiny because of a lack of understanding of the purpose it was to serve and some test deaths. Which made it an easy target for budget cuts.
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>>28907393
Seems pretty awesome, wasn't it receiving F-35 tier shit during development?
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Every now and then a couple of Chair Force ospreys land at the airport where my work is.

I don't care what you losers say, seeing those things go from Helicopter mode to plane mode is really fucking cool, and holy shit do they vibrate the building when they throttle up.

Problems in development aside, the bird it's self is really fucking cool.
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>>28907565
Where would you position the rotor that wouldn't throw off the center of mass when it tilts?

The tail? No, you'll have a disproportional lift compared to the weight of the nose
The side? No, you'll roll the aircraft when you try this
The Nose? Same problem as the tail.
The belly? You'll need a long boom to clear the airframe from the prop. Same with the top.

Realistically, the only place that makes sense for a tiltable rotor is on the wings, and it's going to have to two of them to balance out the center of lift and the center of mass.
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>>28907652
Every airplane the US has made since the B17 has received F35 tier shit during its development cycle.
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>>28907645
> It was called for because of the failure of the Iran Hostage Rescue Mission.
This is simply a lie, because it couldn't do the Iran hostage rescue mission
Existing helicopters could have done the mission, except the marines wanted a piece of the action & fucked it all up.
Which is why marines aren't allowed to do anything important anymore
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>>28907393
not as bad as the f35
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>>28907524
> Other than every stol aircraft in the world.
Go ahead and show me a STOL plane taking off and landing from the flight deck of a San Antonio class.
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>>28907860
I thought a sandstorm fucked it all up
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>>28907848
People seem to forget this.
>prior to entering service "HOLY SHIT IT SUCKS!"
>after enter service "What's wrong with it?"
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>>28907971
It got fucked up because the marine pilots or marine helicopters couldn't do aerial refuelings
And yea, there was other things too
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>>28907971
It was mostly because it was a night mission and literally none of the pilots involved knew how to fly at night. It's the reason why the Nightstalkers are a thing now.
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>>28907848
>B-17
>Good
It's a huge slow target that can't maneuver and can't escape. So to try to fix it they stuck a bunch of guys with machine guns all over it, who can't escape when the plane is inevitably shot down and which reduces the planes payload limiting its ability as a bomber.

Can't out turn a Zero, can't outrun a Messerschmidt, full of people instead of bombs. The B-17 is a shitty compromised design brought about by Boeing lobbyists and shills in the military and congress. The military should have focused on fast aggressive bombers and multiroles rather than waste billions on trying to make an air battleship.
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>>28907393
>safe
>V-22
pick one.
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>>28908023
>>28908115
It failed because Jimmy Carter personally fucked it up with his weak-hearted defeatism. That's why they were all let go once Reagen took the helm as a strong unyielding maniac with his finger on the trigger.
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>>28908130
It's no more dangerous than flying in a Huey or Blackhawk.
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>>28907565
>>28907836

hold on now,

I think he's onto something
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>>28908171
only because its flying like an airplane 99% of the time.
And doesn't actually do combat missions.

>>28908219
Just make a tailsitter with a rotating pilot seat
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>>28907615
I know what you're talking about, and I'm telling you that tilt jets are a horrible idea because jet engines are awful at achieving VTOL. It consumes a shit-ton of fuel and isn't efficient at all.

I'm also telling you the reason why the F-35B uses a lift fan (the thrust vectoring from the exhaust is just to keep it stable, the real lifting power come from the lift fan) is because jet engines are shit at VTOL.

If jets were that great for tilt wing aircraft or helicopters, we would be using them. As it stands, they're not. We know this because multiple companies have already made various prototypes showing as such.
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>>28907836
>>28907565

The only conceivable way that this would possibly work, (and it would work in a ridiculously complicated, un-aerodynamic and inefficient fashion) would be for the fuselage to pivot separately from the wings, with a centrally mounted rotor placed in the same spot as a helicopter.

The fuselage would have to pivot from takeoff position to flight position, putting the rotor forward, which would either result in the occupants/payload facing earth, or would require their own internal pivot system to keep them upright.

Even then, the fuselage would have to be a decent size to accommodate anything aside from a cockpit, which would have a negative impact on the aerodynamics.
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>>28907565
No, but there are other ideas. Pic related, for example.
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>>28908115
It's the fact that it took place at night without the proper gear to fly at night, by pilots who were not used to flying at night, with aircraft that were horribly worn out and didn't have sufficient spare parts.
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>>28908279
aka
marines
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>>28908260
Although, you could probably work with a SLS inspired rocket shaped fuselage and have the personnel and payload enter through the ass end.
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Of all the aircraft I want surplused but would be able to afford, the osprey is my #1. Its beautiful, I could store an ATV and day pack as cargo. Park on top of a plateau, and /out/ the fuck out.
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>>28908287
Army crew would be just as bad at the time.
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>>28907945
Use a seaplane or high speed boat, bam, billions saved.
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>>28907393
Needs more weapons.
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>>28908505
The thing can barely lift 5,000 lbs vertically
It doesn't have any room in payload for weapons
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>>28908219
https://youtu.be/Cq6-6EaeEeg

Something like The 6th Day wiapercraft.
Obviously a second par of wings that fold f16 like since physics and stopping rotors and Hollywood
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>>28907971
Yep, Darude fucked it all up
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>>28907482
No, the safety record is still pretty shit actually. Every time one crashes the brass just cook the books by calling it "pilot error"
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>>28908910
Hey now, those pilots should have anticipated it fucking up and not taken off.

If not for their shitty judgement making them believe that their acft would fly, it wouldn't have crashed.
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>>28908910
Nice tinfoil you got there.
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It's so maneuverable that it's dangerous
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>>28908263
Ya that thing is pretty cool. More efficient, faster, longer range than regular helos
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>>28908910
You gonna start going on about unreported indecents?
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>>28907393
V-22 gunship when?
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>>28909294
The things a totally unarmored cargo tilt rotor
You don't go anywhere near combat in it
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>>28907393
It's MC rate is bad, but the SOF guys like it because it's fast.
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>>28909294
They can carry a remote-controlled lowerable machine gun instead of like 4-6 guys.
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>>28909537
a minigun you have to raise when you land, aka the only time you want it
lol
>>
S-3 SHOULD BE THE NEW COD PLATFORM REEEEEEEEEEEE
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>>28907393
Unique and versatile aircraft that fills an important niche. Highly praised and valued by its operators. Expensive, but justified.
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>couple bad problems early on, some of which were training related
>problems get fixed, training updated, aircraft is great now and has very good record
>will forever have an awful tarnished reputation for being a flying coffin regardless
the v22 and the m16 are best buddies
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>>28908302

>I could store an ATV and day pack as cargo.
You could store an entire apartment as cargo.

Live in your tiltrotor home.
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>>28909839
>V-22 and M16 are best buddies
Where's a drawfag when you need one.
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anyone have that photo of the V22 sunning itself on a rock digesting its meal of marines?
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>>28909866
It's literally posted in this thread
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>>28910094
What the fuck? holy fuck you're right... how in the fuck
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>>28908130
No one was killed in that crash though.
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>>28909864
Drawing L85 and XM8 porn.
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>>28909264
What's the downside?
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>>28909294
The USMC has wet dreams about it. They even tested a version with wing mounted hellfire in addition to the remote chain gun.
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>>28912243
They're actually considering loading it up with laser guided Hydra rockets.
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>>28909846
Please, my penis can only get so erect.
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They should have just done a big ass AH-56 derivative and built 10 times more units for the same cost and with lower operational costs.
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>>28907459
You mean gyroscopic procession? That has no effect on the rotors tilting. It has to do with control inputs on the engineering side of things. An input to the rotor disc manifests itself 90 degrees in rotation after the input was given.

The V-22 is fine now that they worked the kinks out.
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>>28907393
I crashed in one
Fuck those things
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>first military design of its kind put in service
>has a few issues that have mostly been worked out
CLEARLY IT IS USELESS AND WE SHOULD NEVER TRY A TILT-ROTOR DESIGN AGAIN
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>>28909747

Such a great plane
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>/k/, 1942
Can you guys believe they're trying to push this design? It can barely lift shit. It crashes all the fucking time. It's inherently unsafe.
Face it, helicopters just aren't usable for the military.
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Very late to the party.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buh7_xLG4ZE
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>>28913062
ironical shitposting is still shitposting
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>>28913080
Tilt-wing designs get really hairy really fast when there's wind.
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>>28913062
The US literally lost the vietnam war due to their helicopter fetish
It's a garbage idea, that costs endless billions, and kills/maims hundreds every year
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>>28913186
>this guy
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>>28913186
Ok general armchair, how would you have conducted the war?
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Sod the tilt just put a windmill on the roof.
Job Jobbed.
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>>28912615
>Still crashes regularly
>Still blaming pilots for mechanical failures
>Still a useless piece of shit
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>>28913202
Gliders.
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>>28913202
Amphibious invasion of north vietnam.
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>>28913202
Let the French fix what they broke.
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>>28913330
they tried, it didnt go to well
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>>28913222
>Still crashes regularly
>Still blaming pilots for mechanical failures
>every VSTOL ever
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we've got hostiles 2bh famile
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>>28908118
>Any strategic bomber ever
Okay
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>>28907393
I know it is good a killing Marines...
Thank you Defense Department
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>>28908240
It's been in combat for years now...
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>>28909564
You gonna shoot from under the plane while on the ground...? It also has a ramp gunner.
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>>28907393
its "fine" once its shit is worked out

not sure what benefit it has in being used rather than simply bringing more helicopters
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>>28913755
Speed and range, mostly.
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v-22 is a badass platform. people that point out accidents are regurgitating bullshit. how hard is that to process? or we can keep building huey's for 30 years and make no attempt to step ahead of our needs. that is also a good plan, of course.
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>>28913803
If /k/ had its way and had been around long enough, the only aircraft the US would have would be the P47.
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>>28913823
>implying we're all sprey-fags
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>>28913786
are there any missions that it does that refueling stop doesnt solve?
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>>28913836
yeah. missions that don't require stopping or going slow, faggot
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>>28913861
we are talking about the military
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>>28913903
right ok lets forget about 2006-2013, when slow/stop were used about two times out of 200 objectives. land->mission->secure->leave. or wait for a bh and secure lz for two hours, tempting any tom dick and abdul inside of 5km
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out of all the VTOL concepts, the Ryan XV-5 is my favorite.
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>>28915411
Modernized it looks super fuckin' awesome. They forgot the front fan on this one though.
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>>28915424

It looks retarded as shit
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>>28915424
"but where will the fuel go?"
"well, obviously not in the wings"
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>>28913088
>>
>>28908481

how you going to park that boat in the hangar?
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>>28908118
>any bomber that wasn't a jet outrunning any interceptor made after 1936

Neat
>>
>>28907472
Consider that on paper....
It's a slightly faster Chinook with inferior payload.
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>>28910729
>l85 holding xm8

sensible chuckle
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>>28918379
B-29, A-26 could outrun a good number of Japanese fighters. B-29 especially at higher altitudes could outrun anything except for the Ki-44, Ki-61, J2M or Ki-84
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>>28918379
My wooden friend would like a word
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>>28918390
or a Sea Knight with superior everything.
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>>28913668
It looks like CGI here.
Thread replies: 120
Thread images: 24
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