Is 45 ACP the most overrated caliber ever? I mean it is just

>>28860947
preference and multitude of firearms already chambered in it.

>>28860947
Your bait is bad, and you should feel bad for baiting with it.

>>28861043
No bait man.

>>28860947

I personally like it because of the shit ton of things you can do with .45ACP firearms in general, for example .460 rowland conversions or feeding them .45 Super, or if you so chose you can put them in clips and fire them out of almost any .454 caliber revolver you can think of

id rather suppress .45 than 9mm

>>28861740
Why because you for the inherently subsonic bullshit that doesn't apply in this decade so you like to deal with extra gas

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Not really, hits slightly harder and makes a slightly bigger hole. Not saying it's vastly superior to 9mm, but to say that it isn't slightly superior is borderline denial. I'm just talking about the cartridge too not the firearms it's chambered for, then magazine capacity comes into play.

>>28861916
the advantages to 9mm are far greater. 9mm and 45 do the same thing ballistics wise. 9mm is less felt recoil for more follow up shots and 9mm has better capacity.

Overall, 9mm is the superior choice by a bit.

>>28861977
I always hear this about 45 v 9.
Now for self defense loads with hollowpoints sure, but with ball ammo 45 takes the cake.

>>28860947

okay kid here is how it works

The Ace is having a gun in the first place when you need it. Work on that first.

The KING is Shot Placement. If you can't hit shit with your 454 casual your fucking dead anyways.

The QUEEN is caliber. If you have mastered the first two NOW you can look into this. It isn't as important as the first two.

Everything else is JACKASSES.

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>>28861977
I was speaking purely from a ballistic standpoint. I said in my post I wasn't talking firearms. 9mm and .45 do penetrate on average the same amount but .45 will make a slightly bigger hole regardless of what you think. Even with JHP's the hole will be slightly bigger. As for recoil and follow up shot it's subjective. Some people shoot better and faster with .45 than 9mm because of the different recoil type.

>>28862090
I thought penetration was queen?

>>28862149
sure, i can agree with that. some people shoot 45 better. I think i shoot 45 better actually.

but really, 9mm and 45 are both going to take someone down if your shot placement is good, thats what its about, shot placement.

a good hit on hip bones with both 9mm and 45 will both take a full sized male down in a pinch.

the whole 45 stopin powah thing is kind of stupid.

>>28862149

and Im not trying to downplay 45, 45 and 9 are great really, and i enjoy shooting 45 more.

its also great for suppressor systems, better than 9 i think for that.

but, in terms of ballistics, they are virtually the same. same thing with .40. 9 40 and 45 are the same thing with hollowpoints

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>>28862900
>>28862951
Absolutely, 9mm is a perfectly adequate round. While I was defending .45 I was in no way downplaying 9mm either. A 9mm is more than capable of putting someone down and killing them. I honestly use my Beretta 92fs more than my 1911 because of practicality. Hard to beat those 30 round mags.

>Easy to upgrade to higher velocity rounds like 10mm Auto, .45 Super, .460 Rowland

>Heavy bullet resists shedding and fragmenting more when firing through car windshields, plywood, other barriers

>most factory loads are subsonic

>it's fun

>>28860947
>shitpost about .45 ago
>poast g17

everyone is trolled

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>>28863626

>>28862677
Underrated post. Penetration is vital, and heavy projectiles are needed to do this. .45 causes larger wound channels and 9mm is okay but what will remain up for debate is whether a greater number of shots make up for a smaller projectile.

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I own both calibers. I like both. Oddly enough I shoot my .45 better than the 9mm's.

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>>28864056
Honestly this is why I have alternating ammo in my .45 at all times. 230 grain HST followed by 230 grain AE FMJ so on and so forth. I watched a video of a German surgeon showing evidence of gunshot wounds and one struck me in particular. A man was double tapped with a .40 S&W loaded with JHP to the chest. While one penetrated enough it missed every vital. The second shot would have hit his heart or aorta killing him but the bullet failed, mushroomed too soon, and only penetrated 2 inches. Saving his life. Everyone likes to brag about hollow points but honestly if your shot placement is good a FMJ .45 has been killing people dead for over a hundred years. Just my opinion though, I still like 9mm too.
>>28864668
Same. I don't know if it's because my .45 has a better trigger than my 9mm or because of recoil or what but same.

>>28862149
The thing is, the difference in terminal ballistics is so small it doesn't actually translate to anything when it hits your target. And while you may be able to shoot your .45 faster than a 9mm, you can't shoot that same gun in 9mm faster, much less more accurately while maintaining that speed.

>>28860947
i think the lighter gr +p+ loads are actually decent, they come pretty close to a .357 magnum in terms of ballistics.

but you still have the issue of magazine capacity which is the .45's drawback. 1911s are fucking nice though and that alone makes the .45acp a relevant caliber

>>28864668
how fast do you shoot though? because under a "real situation" if you try to mag dump with a 230gr projectile you'll have trouble keeping the muzzle steady.

do you ever run drills with your guns? i find 9mm vastly superior in that regard.

>>28865755
I don't mag dump when I go to the range. But I do try and shoot quickly double taps, sadly I dont have a timer. Agree tho, I could see how in a high stress situation a 9mm would be easier used.

Don't really run any drills yet. I'm kinda new to shooting. Any drills a broke college student can do at the local range?

>>28860947
I own both, I much prefer my 9mm.
I fell like a badass with my 45 and the stopping power is real but at the end of the day my 9 holds more rounds and I can practice a hell of a lot more when I'm getting a box of 50 rds for 11 bucks.
That being said I'll always have a 45.

>>28865806
I don't mean to the extent of IPSC drills, but just drawing from the holster and putting 3 rounds on target (center torso; head) as quickly as possible. I'm just more accurate with a 9mm because the recoil is more manageable.

There is something very pleasant and enjoyable about shooting a 1911 though, especially with heavy bullets. Has the feel akin to firing a revolver in single action.

>>28862021
with ball ammo against flesh alone. If you're not using expanding rounds, you want penetration though. 45s can't offer anything that makes sense besides very slightly better expansion performance on hollow points

>>28862149
except 45 has no penetration capability

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>>28865859
>drawing from the holster
They won't let us msg dump or draw from the holster there. I'm gonna see about the private range; priced and out of the way but less of a goat fuck.

I'd like to some day add a 1911 to my small growing collection. I can say for sure I have more fun shooting my .45 except when I have to buy it.

>>28860947
It is widely available, provides adequate penetration, and it's fun to shoot. It's time proven as a defensive round and people tend to like it. Some people even prefer the slower recoil impulse.

Granted, it is not the ideal tactical caliber, but not everyone cares about that. It may not be as efficient as 9mm, but it will get the job done.
If you want overrated, shit on .40 S&W instead.

>>28862677

It is

Caliber is like a 6

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>>28865895
It's like you don't even know that the majority of calibers in a jacketed hollow point all penetrate around the same. Mostly 12-18 inches in ballistic gel, even .45 acp. Hell the weight of the bullet helps with momentum making it harder to stop. Did you even go to high school friend?

>>28865573
FMJ tends to ricochet off hard bone and otherwise slip through tissue and overpenetrate.

FMJ is a liability when it slips through soft tissue and keeps going. I personally wouldn't take that risk.

Odds are that guy in the video was hit with early prototype, light and high velocity JHP, not the slow expanders we have now. Meanwhile HST punches through barriers and tries its best to expand and penetrate in a balanced manner in all cases. All the police departments with shootings involving HST have reported great success.

>>28866470
>.45 FMJ
>overpenetrating

it probably has like 50 fps and would give you a bruise if it exited.

>>28866470
You make some points, although police have to use JHP for the liability reasons you specified and therefore have no choice. HST's are some of the best, that's why I use them in all my weapons(except for .357 magnum because they don't make it). I still think that they have the possibility of failing and would like the classic round as a backup. Still I admit I've been thinking about just using the HST's and nothing else but we'll see.
>>28866474
Are you serious?

>>28866456
holy shit that thumb

>>28866489
If I wanted a more surefire, tough, and time-tested round than HST then I'd cross load with 230gr. Gold Dot. Less expansion, but the bonded bullet won't ever underpenetrate unless you're doing something retarded like handloading it into a .454 Casull.

>>28862951
Why because you for the inherently subsonic bullshit that doesn't apply in this decade so you like to deal with extra gas

>>28862090
Shot placement is king
Adequate penetration is queen
Everything else is angels dancing on the heads of pins

Opinions on a USP Tactical?

>>28866888
penetration is as important as shot placement, because shot placement is only important if your bullets can reach their targets.

>>28866906
Go to bed joe

>>28860947
Being a shit shot and grazing someone's shoulder with 9mm or .45 is going to get you about the same reaction. Putting one or two through the upper chest with either will also get you about the same results.

It don't matta. Nudda dis mattas.

What are you a better shot with?

>>28862021

Uh... what? 9mm ball outperforms .45 ball in temporary cavitation, yaw, and tumbling.

>>28866936
As long as your not using a pellet gun you don't have to worry about pen. For fuck sakes a .22 will pierce the heart at short ranges

>>28861977
It depends on the gun. Beretta m9s chambered in 9mm have stupid amounts of recoil

>>28863593
/thread

45 penatrates the same through ballistic gel as 9mm.

The thing is, the human body has these pesky things called bones, and 45 goes through that shit unlike 9mm which tends to bounce off. It's why the "lol only 9mm'' meme caught on.

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>>28870938

>9mm bounces off bones

>>28870938
>slow projectile with large surface area (.45 ACP)
>good at penetrating hard surfaces

>>28871030

>+550 ft-lbs of power behind it

Yeah. Pretty much blows up bones. Don't get salty because you carry an ineffective weak cartridge.

>>28871047
But I carry 10millimemer

>>28861740
Except you can get full power 147 grain 9mm that goes subsonic and with a smaller bullet diameter which allows for more effective supression

>implying .45 ACP is not best smg/pistol round ever
John Moses Motherfucking Browning is not amused.

>>28871197

>implying he didnt design numerous other firearms that were not 45 acp

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>>28861133
Thats... somehow worse

>>28861740
subsonic 9mm is quieter than any .45

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>>28871197
>.45
>best smg caliber
but why? nothing against .45 as a handgun caliber but using big fatslow bullets that are trundling along at speeds so low they barely gain anything from longer barrel in an SMG is retarded.
why not use something that can really get something out of a subgun like 9x19 or 7.62 tok?

>>28871494
I was thinking more of PDW's, but I think my point still stands-ish.
most of the time you're using a SMG (or similar) you're in CQB, so slow rounds don't matter. high fire rate, high impact rounds win the day in cqb more than anything else.

>>28860947
Bigger, badder, older (I think), God-tier when used with a suppressor and because owning a 1911 in anything but .45ACP (with the exception of 10mm) makes you a massive faggot.

>>28871409
>subsonic 9mm
Good luck with cycling reliably, FAGT.

>>28871554
I concede .45 does have a place in machine pistols and other compact form factors but once you get anything approaching a carbine/traditional carbine length barrel you're going to see better performance from high velocity calibers with 110 grain 9mm reaching .357 from a handgun velocities.

>>28861831
>why because you for the inherently subsonic bullshit that doesn't apply

What the hell am I reading?

>>28871665
*carbine/traditional SMG

>>28860947
Oh look its this thread again

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OP,

You realize your thread is retarded, hopefully, which leads me to believe this is intentional fishing with potent bait. How do you define overrated? It is a very effective round against living things. Shot placement takes the cake in any caliber, we can all agree with that. Modern 9mm ammunition greatly increases lethality and reliability over decades previous, I would hope we can all agree on that. The same strides have been made in modern .45ACP ammunition. Fact of the matter is that .45ACP carries more perceived "stopping power" with it. Even if marginal, it hits fatter and harder than 9mm.

The real argument comes with magazine capacity. I love .45ACP. Shoot it for competitions. I go through courses with it. I carry it or pack it when hitting the trail, hunting or camping. I'd strap on a .45ACP if I was in some sort of combat situation as a secondary without issue. For concealed carry I choose 9mm all day every fucking day. Only 1 extra magazine needed to hit 30+ ammo cap, generally smaller/slimmer pistols. Capacity trumps the slight increase in lethality for me for daily carry duty.

Point being, only faggots and no-experience children talk about firearms and ammunition like they are sports teams. The only merit .45ACP, or any other ammo needs, is that it exists. If your view that .45ACP is overrated stems from listening to clueless dickheads on youtube and lookatme bloggers, that's on you.

Regards,

Anon