so i'm 19 years old in the states and i just bought a tokarev(i gave money to older friend and he "gifted" it to me). i have no ammo and can't find any around here. it's pretty cheap online, but i'm unsure if i can actually buy it. would i have to produce ID to the mail dude? or would they not give a fuck?
im not a felon or not eligible to own a pistol, so by michigan law, it's not. i looked this shit up, i'm not fucking dumb. i'm just unsure about the purchase of ammo, i don't want to ask my friends to buy me shit all the time.
>Holding: Regardless whether the actual buyer could have purchased the gun, a person who buys a gun on someone else’s behalf while falsely claiming that it is for himself makes a material misrepresentation punishable under 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(6), which prohibits knowingly making false statements “with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of a sale of a gun.”
>Judgment: Affirmed, 5-4, in an opinion by Justice Kagan on June 16, 2014. Justice Scalia filed a dissenting opinion, in which Chief Justice Roberts, Justice Thomas, and Justice Alito joined.
you do know that you straw purchasing a felony. You gave him money initially which makes it a straw purchase
They're not talking about you owning it. It's illegal to have someone but it with the intent to give it to you. And you admitted it.
If you said "my buddy surprised me with a pistol for x occasion" you would have been fine.
i gave him money for which he then bought his own pistol as a gift and after consideration, decided he no longer wanted it and sold it back to me as far as the law goes. wasn't a straw purchase.
This is the kind of tripfaggotry I expect from /k/
>Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you. (See Instructions for Question 11.a.) Exception: If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b.
ammo isn't applicable, that's not straw purchase for the same reason that people who own rifles that fire pistol cartridges have to have other people buy their ammo. nothing illegal about it.
well, it would hold up in court and that's all that matters to me. worst comes to worse, the bill of sale gets burnt and the fun meets my metal grinder and i'm out 190 bucks.
>namefag thinks he can fool people by removing his name
Nice try, OP.
You explicitly stated that you:
>gave money to your of-age friend
>for the express purpose of purchasing a handgun
>to have him "gift" if to you
You are a fucking idiot and no amount of back peddling and trying to explain how you *didn't* commit a felony is going to convince anyone here that you are innocent.
>you should seriously considering becoming an hero
well, one way or another, nothing can be proven. the fun could disappear, the bill of sale could disappear, everything about it could disappear and all that's left to the government is some guy who lied to a bunch of dudes on the internet. none of you answered my question, stop being faggots. can i or can i not buy ammo online? jesus fuck.
I ordered pistol ammo online at 19 and 20, and countless times since then. Package always just gets left at my door. Hell once I shipped it to a different address than my billing address, and to a different name. Just left on the porch.
AIMsurplus is the only place I know of that requires ID for ammo. SGammo and LAXammo never have given me grief, both solid sellers.
For all we know anon could have gave his buddy x amount of money as a gift, his buddy bought a pistol for himself, decided he didn't want it anymore, then gifted it to anon. Hard to prove other wise. Don't miss the buss tomorrow Johnny, make sure you take your helmet off so mommy can give you a kiss goodbye
Yes you can order ammo online. They ship it straight to your door. Some places do want you to fax a copy of your ID like southern Ohio gun
doesn't really matter. none of this would or could ever hold up in court without any real evidence. i mean, what if i'm just lying to you, don't have a gun and am just a secret liberal trolling /k/ for lulz? i mean, all that shit is possible. none of it is even remotely admissible.
well, it's also a felony to help burry a body, but if the body is never found, charges cannot be had. also, what if i'm just a trolling, lying faggot who is actually just nogunz? problem is, no one knows. people lie on the internet all the time. have fun trying to prove anything i'm saying is true ATF.
Nigger why would you post that you committed a straw purchase?! Why not just say that it was a gift or something which is legal?! Delete this post now before the dog shooters get a hold of this info.
your ip address from 4chan, then follow up and match it to your isp. Then your isp gives your billing location to the atf and you are one dog short in your household while your ass gets stretched out in prison
Dubs and I email this to the BATFE,
However, there may be evidence left over that may lead them to the body AKA THIS WHOLE DAMN THREAD.
And if you're lying then you're just gonna be short one dog with nothing to show for it
Here's a hint: "substantial cooperation" is the technical term used in federal sentencing guidelines for "testifying against your friends." It knocks several levels off your sentence.
also, as OP, let me fix my incredibly ambiguous statement. i recently bought in private sale, a tokarev from a friend of mine whom i have been helping financially for the past month or so. he bought the gun with money i had given to him for his own purposes, whether it be groceries or what have you. he then, deciding that he no longer wanted the gun, sold it to me in private sale. me, wanting to help him out, given his dire financial position, gave him money in exchange for said firearm. all completely legal. now in possession of said legally acquired firearm, i am searching for information regarding the purchase of ammunition online and the legalities of such a purchase. there. amending statement.
>/k/ bitches about how the ATF sucks
>reports people to the ATF for victimless "crimes"
You have to find a way to authenticate the evidence, and that goes for any type of evidence. It is /harder/ for internet stuff, but not impossible. You're basically going to have to find a way to show that the post was made by the person in question, and that it is what it appears to be (i.e. not a fake).
not in michigan. anyone can gift you a handfun. also, it wasn't particularly gifted, hense the quotation marks, it was sold legally in private sale, but it was more along the lines of he sold the gun to me for money i was going to give him anyway. still a sale, still legal.
You should stop debating it, dude. You got the answer you were looking for. You're just giving these guys more of the attention they're looking for. Turn off the namefag and go about your business
its legal to own a pistol at 18 in most states. just not buy them.
id like to confirm your belief or laugh at you but the michigan handgun laws are so fucked ive barely got any idea what the fuck its trying to say
Except a straw purchase punishable under Federal law by up to ten years in prison, plus a dose of accessory liability for you.
Relax! As a level 20 offender and (assuming no priors), you can only expect to do 33-41 months in a minimum security prison. And if you take that sweet, sweet acceptance of responsibility discount, you're only looking at 27-33 months.
You can forward it to your recycling bin. Otherwise the Feds will jack off and laugh at how stupid of a wanna be snitch you are. You really think they'll follow up on this? Retard
Not sure how the laws are there, But in PA you can't "Gift" a pistol, it needs to be transferred via an FFL,
>are you the actual transfer e of the firearm "Yes"
So yeah congrats you just did a straw purchase and are now a felon
yeah really, i'm a white conservative male with no priors coming from a respected military family. do they really think the feds would give even half a fuck? its a range fun.
Actually, they'd probably love the shit out of you since you made it so easy. You're low-hanging fruit and you fit a narrative in a federal climate that is incredibly hostile to unlawful transactions in firearms. Keep in mind, these are the people who have successfully prosecuted 19 year-old girls for sexting their 17 year-old boyfriends and went after sugar daddy websites under the fucking White Slavery Act.
>i'm a white conservative male with no priors coming from a respected military family.
way to not identify yourself there kiddo.
just stop posting. 'gift' the gun back to your equally retarded friend.
when did i say this? i mean seriously? when. show me where i said this. for people who supposedly like guns, you guys are a bunch of dicks. im a good old american kid not doing anything wrong. i didn't do anything illegal and there is no proof that i did.
>when did i say this?
that whole post is saying how you think you dont need a purchase license for a private transaction.
I JUST FUCKING LINKED THAT POST, you are either trolling or incredibly dumb, im guessing the latter from a straw purchaser
>or maybe this is an incredibly elaborate troll
he's right though. we can't prove it. ATF can't prove it unless they somehow got a warrant to search his house and found the fun was in his possesion. if that isn't the case, then there's nothing that can be done.
>gets proven to be a retard and a felon
>kek lol im trolling
or maybe i'm a 19 year old nofuns and wanted to see how my theory on buying a tokarev and ammo would hold up in court without going and looking up complicated laws by myself and just got /k/ to do it for me and i'm just being incredibly lazy and don't want to put in the research beyond the occasional browsing on /k/. but that might not be true either, who knows?
a legitimate company would request you fax or email a photocopy of a state ID confirming your age to purchase ammunition for a pistol. I scam artist/le happy merchant company wouldn't refund your money after you bought your glock bullets when you couldn't prove you were over 21.
I dealt with similar with PCC and a brotier gunshop will either take your word it was for a rifle or have me bring the rifle with me when I bought ammo. pain in the ass and that law is gay as fuck to shit on people 18+ but under 21 who wanted dem 1930's $5 revolvers for defense.
you can buy a firearm as a gift for someone, they just can't pay you for it. giving a friend $500 for his last cigarette and him deciding in his magnanimity he'll buy OP a firearm as a gift is perfectly legal.
I have never been IDed for ammo in a shop either but I was talking about online orders, I didn't even know there were places that required you to scan them id before they sell you ammo and I have bought from something like 8 different ones in the last year or two.
even if OP did do something illegal, which i don't think he did, there's no harm in anything he's doing. i mean, really. he's not hurting anyone(that i know of). like he said, it's a range fun.
because it is illegal to SELL pistol ammunition to a person under the age of 21 as an FFL, not gift it or possess it. An easy ATF sting is "Hey I want some glock bullets, here you are sir, HA GOT YOU MOTHERFUCKER", especially over the internet.
shaved my face for a while and got the "sorry man I know it's bullshit but management won't let me sell you this unless you have the carbine with you" when I was 20
>mfw i bought the goddamn gun at the goddamn store and had a pic of their bill of sale
grew my beard out and I haven't been carded for range use, ammo, or liquor in months (21 currently)
I have ordered from plenty of online ammo dealers and never been asked for ID in the transaction, even from big ones. I also have never heard of a federal law regarding selling pistol ammo to minors.
then you're a liar and a double liar, because online ammo sellers and in store gun shops do an age checks to protect themselves from criminal prosecution and it's part of the NFA along with 21+ to buy pistols.
protip: when wal-mart asks you for your DoB during an ammo purchase after you sniped the last box of .22 it's for this check; if you look under 30 they ask for ID, if you're some salty old geriatric fudd fuck they take your word for it
>inb4 I never get carded at liquor stores what's this fancy federal age restriction on alcohol.
as for online, since you have to sign for ammunition, some shops leave it up to the postal worker to notice "requires adult signature 21+" on the shipping slip. If you're 18 you're lucky you have a shitty post office, if you're visibly over 21 by virtue of being some old fudd cocksmoker they just hand you a pen.
all of you faggots are so stupid it hurts.
He and his friend did nothing illegal.
a STRAW PURCHASE is only infact a STRAW PURCHASE if the person that ends up with the gun is not legally allowed to own them.
Pretty sure this is a sockpuppet
Who else but OP is using "fun" to refer to his straw purchase gun?
>along with 21+ to buy pistols.
wrong you fucking faggot.
Holy shit does anyone on this board know anything about guns?
You only have to be 21 to buy handguns from an FFL
You can legally own handguns at any age, and you can legally purchase them at 18 through private sale.
it was an illegal purchase because in Michigan you need a purchase license if you are under 21 to privately buy a handgun, which he did not get.
therefore it was not legal for him to own it, therefore straw purchase.
did you even read the articles listed in here?
You can buy privately at 18. He was not a felon, and not legally barred from buying a handgun. Thus not a straw purchase.
It says right at the top of half of those fucking pages you can do it at 18.
What about this is so hard to understand?
It's not illegal because OP graciously donated 190 dollarydoos to his friend who in his infinite magnanimity decided to gift him a gun
REEE somewhere else, this is /k/ and and autism fight to boot so "handguns are 21+" is shorthand for "handguns from FFLs are 21+ but you can purchase a handgun within your own state at 18+ in a private sale but you have to have someone 21+ purchase ammunition for you or own a pistol caliber carbine and purchase ammunition for that rifle and then later decide to use it in your handgun instead"
>gave money to friend
>he "gifted" me item
wow you are a clever one, i bet you're the first criminal to ever think of that loophole. imagine all the criminals that could get off scott free with knowledge like that. like a hooker who "receives" money as a gift, and "gifts" a blowjob. anon, you just invented the best criminal legal defense ever used, start your lawfirm now you will be a legendary millionaire
I'm failing to understand how any of you are coming to the conclusion that hes in the wrong.
You have to have a license to purchase a fucking handgun from a dealer, not a private sale. He and his friend did literally nothing wrong. Whatsoever.
>You can legally own handguns at any age
you can own a handgun "in your name"/ be gifted one at 18
you can own a rifle "in your name"/ be gifted one at 16
your little fudd chudling having a 10-22 in his closet that you bought doesn't mean he owns it.
I have to assume I'm being trolled at this point, have you ever ordered ammo online or are you just some nofuns?
no, In michingan (where OP said he was from) you are required to have a purchase licence for private sales as well
>IF PURCHASER DOESN’T HAVE A CPL
Before you can buy a handgun, the purchaser must get a permit to purchase a pistol. This is available from your local police department. The permit to purchase is issued by your local police department, and is valid for 10 days. The police department will run your background to ensure eligibility to own a firearm before issuing the permit. Though the permit is valid for 10 days, it doesn’t mean you HAVE TO purchase a pistol, but it allows you to purchase one pistol from a private seller for 10 days.
Go to your local police department and obtain your permit to purchase a pistol
Meet with the seller and actually buy the pistol
Fill out the RI-060 Michigan Pistol Sales Record form
There are 3 copies (that must all be filled out and signed)
Seller keeps one
Buyer keeps one
Buyer drops off remaining copy to local police department within 10 days
Buyer keeps copy of the sales record with the firearm for 30 days
Bring your purchase permit and pistol sales records back to the police department within 10 days
Enjoy your new pistol.
OP did none of these steps, he litterally just has a piece of paper that says "dingus sold doofus dis gun"
Also wrong you fucking retard.
it varies state by state
In Michigan, a person under the age of 18 generally may not possess a firearm in public except under the direct supervision of an adult 18 years of age or older.1 Persons under age 18 may possess a firearm while at, or going to or from, a recognized target range or trap or skeet shooting ground if, while going to or from the range or ground, the firearm is enclosed and securely fastened in a case or locked in the trunk of a motor vehicle.2 Persons under age 18 may also possess a firearm while hunting game under the authority of a hunting license on land upon which a parent or guardian is regularly domiciled or where a parent or guardian, or another adult at least 18 years old authorized by a parent or guardian, accompanies the minor.3
the part that makes it a straw purchase is that his bro got the money before he "gifted" it to his bro, IE a straw purchase.
This has been confirmed by the very recent supreme court case abramski v. united states. But as for anyone not THAT retarded to have someone purchase a gun for you with "for gun" in the memo line of your personal check to get a LE discount on a glock.
>you have to sign for it
>"requires adult signature 21+"
>already need to produce ID to sign for packages unless you're a necrotic fudd to confirm 18+
>UPS man says his package scanner won't let you sign for it after typing your birthday
>because you're 18, not 21
>you REEEEE at him
>he marks it as unable to be delivered
guess rifles do go by state, with 16 being the common one if there is any regulation to tranfer/sale. gg being in a cucked state where you have to be 18 to own a longgun.
because when you signed for it your lazy UPS guy visually confirmed your fuddy ass as over 21. Remember buying liquor before you became fat and old? being able to hobble into the A&W mad as hell and walk out uncarded with a crate of coulsons vodka is because you look over 21 and store clerks are lazy.
thats legal, his friend decided in the parking lot that zastava tokarevs are pieces of shit, gun shops don't accept returns, and it's legal to gift a pistol to a person 18 and over. then enters anon who has been so nice to Anon'sBro in the past and helped him out in a rent money pinch earlier that day.
>and it's legal to gift a pistol to a person 18 and over. then enters anon who has been so nice to Anon'sBro in the past and helped him out in a rent money pinch earlier that day.
except he has a piece of paper that literally says he paid money for it, not that it was a gift.
>I anon on _/_/__ am selling a zastava tokarev serial number ________ to ______ undersigned below for the sum of $0.
if he's citing the pre purchase economic transaction of $190 dollarydoos then OP needs to track down his buddy and have him burn that piece of paper though.
Why is everyone so upset about a straw purchase for a guy who has no intent of doing anything bad with his pistol? Yeah it's illegal, but that's more of an indictment against the atf and govt than anything else.
Fuck the govt.
Well judging by his behavior in this thread he seems a little mentally deranged as well. So let's add mental illness onto his felony and we've got a sweet ass sacrifice for Tyrone and of course a nice dog for the ATF.
Sacraficing the idiots in the community keeps the good members safe.