why is 20 gauge not more popular?
>powerful enough to kill most animals in the U.S.A.
>wide variety of common load options from #9 bird to #1 buck to slugs from 5/8 to 1 full ounce
> #1 buck is only .02 inches smaller than 00 buck and you still get 9 pellets
>low recoiling enough to be shot by almost anyone
>lower recoil allows faster follow up shots
>more than enough power to kill an intruder quickly
>can be shot all day with no shore shoulder
>slightly cheaper than 12 gauge
why the fuck am i the only one who would rather have a 20 instead of a 12
>i still like 10 gauge though, its better at turkey, duck, and goose hunting than 12, 20, or 16 gauge
> only slightly cheaper if cheaper usually same price as 12gauge
> recoil is still high for the amount of FPS loss from a 12 gauge.
stop being a bitch sore shoulder only happens the first time you shoot
My point stands, too expensive for what it is, less powerful than a 12 gauge, and you don't save much of anything its like i offered you 2 identical cars, one with a 4cylinder engine and one with a v6 for the exact same price, which would you take if they consumed the same amount of gas?
I was talking about how important shot placement is with the guy who works at my LGS the other day. He said that old guys come in and say they need a 7mm for whitetail deer, because they can't into shot placement.
I believe this is a similar situation. 20 gauge is a goat shotgun caliber but "MUH 12 GAUGE STRONK"
For pump actions with a tube I could just get a smaller / lighter load of 12ga with a shorter shell. Then I'd have the same effect as 20 gauge but more capacity.
If mag-fed shotguns were more common then 20ga would make a lot more sense
if its purely about power for cost, then why the hell does anyone bother with .223? for about the same price you can buy .308 and you get a lot more power. people buy .223 because it is more pleasant to shoot, and the average guy can shoot it faster, and lastly, anyone can handle a .223. for an over-driven .22 its fucking loud as hell.
and i think a better analogy would be "why would anyone buy a 250cc sport motorcycle when they can have a stretched hyabusa" and the simple answer is that its more fun to push something small than dial back something big.
Since you're not taking the bait, I was referring to swivel guns.
Because the large majority of people who shoot shotguns are hunters. Since they are already limited to 3 shots the higher fps and greater availability of 12 gauge is very appealing.
It's the 2nd most popular gauge.
You don't get the range, power, nor pattern width/density, that's why.
I have often hunted waterfowl and late season pheasants with one of my two Ithaca Mag-10's, and used an 870 Wingmaster for most everything else. Every once-in-a-while I'd take a 20ga afield. But, starting in the late 90s my dad (who owns more than 200 guns) bought a 28ga and then another. He got some 28ga bismuth for duck hunting. Hunting was no longer so much about getting something as it was enjoying himself, and the same could be said for clays.
In many ways, the 20ga makes hunting and shooting more enjoyable, and I'm thinking of following suit and taking my recently-new Browning BPS 20ga afield this fall. It feels classy.
But only my 30" barreled, 11.5lb 10ga for Spring Honk Removal. There's nothing like launching 1 3/4 oz of shot into the sky at 1350fps every trigger pull, feeling like you're an antiaircraft battery dropping snows out of formation at 90 yards up.
It has it's niche. Unrelated to the modern loads but I do the "I'm a fag from the 1800s" role playing thing for rendezvous and for hunting and I have a 20g Fowler French pattern, I fucking love it. I've taken deer turkey rabbit squirrel duck with it I want to do a buffalo hunt this fall but it's fuckin spensive.
i very much agree with you, at some time hunting has to stop being about "lets go find an animal and kill it in to teeny tiny pieces, you get your 300 win mag and ill get my 45-70 and well go after some white tail" and be about the hunt instead of the kill. though on occasion (like for geese and turkey) its fun to blow them out of the sky like a walking A.A. gun
and about 1350 fps, a 20 gauge 1 ounce slug makes that same speed, as well as #1 buck in 2.75 inch shells.
My one fudd gun is a 20ga 870, and it's pretty nice. It's really light, and points better than the 12ga version. The sparse shot pattern is also more challenging when shooting trap; 12 gets boring fast.
i do the same thing, i hunt with a 44 caliber black powder pistol (i did the maths and it shoots about comparably to a light 44 special with a 200 gn conical so inside of 40 yards its enough when i do my part) and i also hunt with a recurve bow (though im curious about a traditional long bow with no arrow rest)
I usually prefer 20, much easier to keep on target due to the lighter weight barrel but has the same muzzle velocity as a 12. It's biggest downside is it's lack of popularity itself, which makes ammo cost more and means there aren't as many loads to choose from.
Meh, they kinda did. But with the cheeks widened and the nasal chopped off so they could hear their officers yelling at them.
Kinda like Alexandros, or the Romans. Every results-oriented ancient army had open-face helms. They were willing to sacrifice that personal protection for unit efficiency. You notice that after awhile.
I shoot a Fred Bear recurve myself ( I'm super jelly of my uncle who got gifted one from Fred himself back in the 60) I've been thinking about building an Osage bow myself it sounds like real fun.
im a young fag (19) and a few years ago i was given a bear recurve pulling 50 by a friend of the family. its cut past center so arrow shaft dimensions are crazy important with it which pisses me off. also being a bit of a nerd i want a traditional long bow (im actually considering building one, seeing if i cant find a good red oak someone wants gone, and ive also heard good of honey locust) so that i can toy around with the "mongolian draw"
maybe ill just say fuck it and build a pvc bow (like the backyard bowyer) and ignore the slow speeds and laughing spectators
How is it not? I hear more about seitching to 28 guage and .410, 20 guage is supper popular around bird hunters and skeet/trap shooters. Idont think you really know what youre talking about. And besides 12G is the cheapest bang for your buck.
I own a 12 gauge AND a 20 gauge. The reason why 12 gauge is more popular IS because it's more powerful, that's really all. There's no ancient chinese secret about it, people just prefer the firepower of 12 gauge and went with it, it's not that 20 gauge is shit, its just not as good.
As for me, my 20 gauge is one of my favorite guns.
Because I only own 1 shotty, and its a 12 guage.
Only use my buddies 20 for shooting pigeons. Not clay pigeons either.
We take turns banging a stick against a silo and shoot the pigeons that fly out. Then throw all the dead birds to barn cats.
A 12 guage would be too easy, take the fun away.
I always wondered if wit new powderloads 16 ga could become more popular as a tactical combat shotgun load and with it's slight reduced size make it easier to have high capacity box mags.
Completely possible, just not really viable in the market since 12ga already dominates. You might lose the ability to have varying-length cartridges, depends how the rimless cartridge headspaces
There's no reason you could have a pump action, removable box mag fed shotgun firing some regular and some magnum from the same box. Some semiautos even handle this.
Making them rimless would change box shape and size (for the better) and increase reliability on a whole. It would work fine as any other large rimless caliber repeater, and there are many systems.
Some of my 20 gauges kick more than some of my 12 gauges though. I think part of the issue is people trying out single shot 20 gauge or bolt/pump 20 gauge and then the salesman is like well here check out this nice 12 gauge semi auto and they're like ohhh that is nice. I'm not sure. But I know a 2 3/4 20 gauge slug in my bolt action has more recoil than 3 inch buck in my semi auto 12. Plus like others have said, it's easier to find more loads for 12 gauge simply because it is more popular. I use to have an old stevens 16 gauge pump and I really regret ever getting rid of it because it was just so nice to shoot, even with paper shells.
honestly ignoring pattern density and power. 20 gauge and 28 gauge are more fun to shoot. they just feel more snappy. feels especially true in semi auto 20's vs semi auto 12's. 12 gauge semi's feel like they take for fucking ever to cycle.
Price. 20 gauge is more expensive to shoot than 12. There's a bit more flexibility with a 12 gauge if you plan on hunting waterfowl, more slug options for deer, low recoil shells for HD take it down to 20ga levels all on cheaper ammo. Lots of little things.
I do barebow target shooting, it's a completely different shooting technique. Most recurve shooting use the BEST technique (biomechanically efficient shoulder tearing) which is completely unsuitable to longbows. They are fun as fuck and so satisfying to master, but be prepared to relearn how to shoot.
>talking bows in a shotgun thread
I know. Go away. I like shotguns too. Fudd 20s are one of favorite guns to shoot, so much fun and a breeze to shoot compared to a heavy 1100 or something. I don't care if they are shooting less mass down range, for the raw shooting experience 20 is more satisfying.
I'm a 5'7, 130lbs manlet and I can easily take the recoil from a 12 gauge, even high brass slugs. If someone can't take the recoil it's because they're holding it incorrectly
I got a 20ga JC Higgins (Sears) Bolt-action for my wife because she didnt like shooting 12 gauge from my trench gun repro. The 20ga was perfect for her: light weight, little recoil and good accuracy with slugs. I bought another one later for myself, but I have to fix my 12ga Stoeger 2000.
The HK CAWS used special snowflake belted 12 gauge all-brass shells optimized for shooting semiauto from 10rd box magazines. Not quite the same but similar in concept.
My dad shoots a 20 gauge for duur hunting, and has been for 30 years. He introduced me to 20 gauge and so that's what I shoot. I've got my 20 gauge Wingmaster next to me loaded with 2 buck. I see nothing wrong with it.