On January 15, 2016, undersigned was provided a copy of a Form 1, approved on September 5, 1986, for a machinegun to an individual and not a governmental entity. This new fact betrays the Defendants’ claims of never approving an application for a non-governmental entity for a post-May 19, 1986 machinegun, and further, demonstrates that the BATFE has in fact allowed the registrations of post-May 19, 1986 machineguns to other than governmental entities.
Well...The ATF has really positioned themselves into a corner.
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Update New Form 1 found from 2005!
He probably thinks it will set a precident they can use to blanket deny challenges to the NFA.
How in the fuck will this make it harder to repeal the NFA? Are you that god damn LawFag trip that shitposted non stop in the origonal threads?
>implying there's a good way to interpret law
Here's my interpretation...
There are over ten thousand federal laws, and thousands more city, state, and county laws. There are so many laws it's impossible to count them and God knows how many felonies the average American commits. I'm curious if police officers and politicians commit more felonies than the average American.
When a law is passed, that means that countless people are already violating that law- otherwise that law wouldn't have been passed because nobody would see any need for it. That means every time a law is passed there's a huge community of active lawbreakers, and it's easy for someone to associate with them and get arrested because they weren't in the community long enough to know they should have kept whatever they were doing low key. It's basically entrapment.
Every American is felonious, and the system is an inescapable monster that throws the book at everyone.
How's that interpretation?
Stare Decisis. Ie, letting the decision stand. The Supremes never but never reverse themselves unless it's something downright apocalyptic or causes a sea-change in civil society. The court cases that laid the groundwork for the Civil War and Civil Rights movement come to mind. Therefore, when a law survives a challenge, it sets precedent and it cannot be challenged in the same way again. Precedent must also be factored into similar decisions on similar matters. So if the NFA is strengthened, other gun laws across the nation might also be strengthened.
Precedent is a thing. When you set precedent, it needs to be factored into all subsequent rulings. His is a due process argument. The Government is going to argue that they have remit to grant or revoke these things as needs must. If they win (and they will), the NFA has withstood a legal challenge and been strengthened. If Hollis wins, he'll get his stamp and the NFA will have been heard before the supreme court without getting taken down and it will then be strengthened.
So you shouldn't be rooting for Hollis. You should be trying to strangle him in his sleep to stop this thing.
Try worthless, and sophistic. Go to a lawyer and try to file a case and see how long he doesn't laugh at you. Does that interpretation get precedent made in court or does it make you feel smarter?
I'm betting it's the latter.
I just we don't have to buy cuckstamps to modify our own property anymore.
>Does that interpretation get precedent made in court
Isn't there legal precedence for literally EVERYTHING???
I'm saying our justice system is broken. It can no longer function according to what I've seen. Broken on paper, of course.
you're a stupid faggot, court rulings having no bearing on legislative measures repealing laws.
ass tons of people were thrown in prison for violating the Volstead act and lost their appeals, that didn't make the Volstead act unrepealable.
Here's a guy who actually knows what he's talking about.
Precedent is like 90% of what lawyers do, and depending on how high this case goes, a bad ruling could cement NFA into our country's history for a long time in the foreseeable future.
You don't fuck around with cases you know will fail because every time you do, you make it harder for the next similar case to even be heard.
Precedent is no fucking joke, along with intent this is like first day law school shit.
Actually, the answer is to keep on fighting in court by picking good cases that have a chance of winning. The Aurora AWB case? That was a good case. It didn't get picked up. There are several more like it working it's way through the courts right now. It will not prevail in another circuit court. I guaranfucking-tee that. Eventually, it will come to a split decision and the Supremes will be forced to take it up because different parts of the country will be working under different precedent.
That thing we hold so dear? That ideal we strive to maintain called Equal protection under the law? Precedence is a key part of making that work. It keeps the court from applying the law differently to different people.
Then I misspoke. I should have said overturned.
Because you don't have a legal argument. You have a vague complaint about a thing called law pollution. That's not anything like a case. Now got off of your fucking high horse. You look like an asshole.
precedence is totally fucked, the courts have already set precedence that women can rape underaged boys and make them pay child support.
he's retarded, the aim isn't to have the courts strike down the NFA because everyone already knows that the supreme court will never entirely repeal a piece of legislation passed by congress regardless of how dubious of the circumstances it was passed.
SCOTUS has already upheld feature bans and full auto is most definitely a bannable feature according to SCOTUS.
The NFA was amended in 1986 to close the Machine Gun registry. Hollis' argument is strictly one that applies to himself and no one else. This entire argument is academic anyway because, as I stated before, he's not going to win.
>This entire argument is academic anyway because, as I stated before, he's not going to win.
For those of us who don't speak legalese (and who may or may not read at a 10th grade level), can you explain why he's not going to win? Thanks in advance, anon.
Oh, and that's one guy who got fucked by a shitty judge. The alternative is much worse.
The alternative is world where every judge is given carte-blanche to fuck whomever they please regardless of previous rulings. That ruling isn't a feature, it's a bug.
So, you're saying that you have to wait for one good case instead of having several high profile small cases that start discussion and change people's minds so that case is actualyl winnable?
If something is wrong you stand up for it, and more people will follow your lead.
Judiciaries make rulings based on fact and cultural climate. The more cases that get brought against the NFA make it more important that the NFA gets reviewed, because a lot of court cases against a peice of legislation can mean it is not functioning as intended (the government liked the law, but the people didn't)
So Nolo isn't proving that the NFA is retarded, he is proving that the administration tereof is retarded.
Welcome to every government body mostly ever.
So the ATF will apologize, review its practices, maybe, MAYBE, slap a few wrists and sacrifice one scapegoat, and then this will become pic related.
It will become cannon fodder for Conservatives saying gun legislation eneds to be reviewed, but that is also fucking nothing weighed against all the Sandy Hooks.
Opening gun legislation could be pretty dangerous.
this isnt about proving it's bullshit right now. Its about getting discovery. He believes if he can get discovery on the NFA database he can prove that post 86' machinegun stamps were issued to people. If a bunch of influential people have shit they aren't supposed to, which he believes they do? Then he has a few things he can do. If he finds out that lets say, 250 random fucks have gotten MGs past 86' he has some different shit he can do.
Right now we need to score discovery to know whats possible. Without discovery the entire thing dies. He has some pretty good ammo to convince a judge that discovery is appropriate, but that MUST come first.
Could, theoretically this open up the MG registry? Yes.
Could, theoretically this open up the entire NFA for appeal? Yes.
Either of those two things are moot, and not worth getting excited over at this point however. No discovery, no case.
If he's right, and the ATF has approved a number of machineguns post 86' though? The ATF is going to have the eyeballs chewed from it's face before they skullfuck it to death.
>If he's right, and the ATF has approved a number of machineguns post 86' though? The ATF is going to have the eyeballs chewed from it's face before they skullfuck it to death.
So the ATF will apologize, review its practices, maybe, MAYBE, slap a few wrists and sacrifice one scapegoat, and then this will become pic related.
Not rich enough rich guy is ruining it for all the real rich guns who can get their machine guns illegally.
Unfortunately, all those legally acquired machine guns were lost in yachting accidents so you cannot take them back mr. ATF
Unless he's hoping that when he ruins it for the other rich guys, they'll take his side.
You're retarded if you think the ATF can possibly convince anyone this was a mistake.
Hughes Amendment says machineguns cannot be registered after May of 1986. Period. No "unless," "with exception to," or "if"
How are they going to justify not pursing these post-86 civilian MGs when they had them on fucking record?
Oh, and do you think the NRA, GOA, SAF and NSSF are just going sit on the side lines and watching this shit fly?
We know feinstein has a rare animal called a California CCW, how awesome would it be if she had machineguns too? Imagine best case scenerio, and we find a fuckton of politically plugged in people have MGs.
>precedent is a thing
so is fear of pissing off millions of americans.
this country continues to teeter on the edge of massive civil conflict. After half a century people are discovering their rights were taken and they want them back, either the government is going to relinquish those rights or we are going to take them, there is no remaining middle ground.
Its already started.
There will never be an organized insurrection in this country. As long as the government isn't stereotypical best korea dystopia or outright fascist everyone will be content with browsing YouTube or watching another generic police procedural tv show while eating a fuckton of sweetened meat. There will never be another civil war because people are too comfortable and the government knows better than to disrupt that overtly
Last I remember reading the breifs etc the case is not challenging NFA directly so hard to say it strengthens it if it is never an explored directly.
To my above point, you yourself say his argument is due process based, not that the NFA is unconstitutional.
To not add fuel to the getting hopes up fire we also have executive privledge being overuled for fast and furious. 2 very damaging things skeletons from the past coming out about atfs involvement in fast and furious and approving illegal mgs could finally be enough to do more than slap some wrists.
>The court cases that laid the groundwork for the Civil War and Civil Rights movements come to mind.
I don't mean to be edgy in any case whatsoever, but who's to imply that this won't lead to a civil rights like movement where people OC infront of their state capitols and defy the state with (Non-violent) proyests. This is already being seen in Oregon over jailing ranchers a second time for the same felonies. (Double jeopardy.) Give it time and I won't be surprised if in my state (NJ) I see my neighbors go to Trenton with arms in hand saying to bring down the fascist goverment we have here.
Pre 86 owners are such tard.
40k for a rifle? How fuckin stupid?
I don't feel bad for them, you were dumb enough to pay an absurd amount for a rifle, deal with your bad investment and stop lobbying for bullshit laws that protect said investment
That's not how legal precedent works. God damn it. And if you are going to handwave away the impact of losing this case, as he is all but guaranteed to do, you have no business opening your mouth about law.
Depends on the County... Ventura County here 805
Freaking damn near impossible to get a CCW. You need to write an essay defending why you need a CCW and it has to be legit like I work Security or carry money/jewelry for work.
Don't even talk about the Valley or San Fernando area. Its still out of Los Angeles and its damn near impossible there.
Yes and fuck you I'll tell you why.
We all know prices on legal MG's keep going up and up thus there is obviously increasing demand and someday we will reach a breaking point where that demand must be taken care of somehow. One of the possible outcomes is the government legalizes MG's again. Just like it did with alcohol, swear words in movies and no doubt marijuana soon.
Totally not shitting you, they require a damn essay. And you can't say because 2nd amendment either. I've been wanting to get my CCW but certain jobs I've applied for ask me if I have tried to get it and I'm concerned it'll look bad if I try and get denied.
No. But maybe you should take heed and listen when people are trying to tell you something instead of trying to shoot the messenger.
>He's probably an ATF plant trying to break up support.
>Either that, or a current Pre-86 owner.
Nigga please. I was struggling with the intricacies of not shitting myself in 1986 and my father built cabinets for a living. To top it off, I don't live in a class 3 state. I was never going to own a full auto.
I want to see gun control go down in flames but that doesn't change the fact that there is a right way and a wrong way to do things.
Its not double jeopardy. Quit being retarded.
They were convicted of a crime with mandatory minimum sentences. The judge was a softy and said the mand min was too long. Feds appealed and won, so longer sentence was approved. Happened that they had finished their shorter sentence, so that time served was taken away from the 5 year sentence they should have gotten in the first place.
Don't start fires on federal land you don't own.
People seldom take to arms for any but reasons of utter desperation.
Unless enough people are literally starving, it Ain't Gonna Happen™.
6 guys in a wildlife preserve in West Bumblefuck do not a revolution make.
I had to write a letter to the issuing judge as to why I needed to carry concealed in NY. This was a little upstate ~60 miles from the city. It was fucking bullshit, pretty much felt like a hs essay.
2 separate incidents of arson.
'backstopping' to save silage putting firefighters at risk, when there was a burn ban in place.
burn to cover up poaching.
both burns lit up federal property, which they don't own.
All of this already litigated. You can say whatever shit you want, but they were convicted, lost their appeals, and are in prison where they belong. In short, I'm right, you're wrong.
pretty shitty characters
It would, but its single fucking punishment.
Thank god none of you actually work with the law.
Sentencing guidelines were 5 years, and that's what they got. It was just broken up into 2 chunks because they appealed the sentence.
Muh 'I get all my legal info from reading red state and unsourced internet posts about legal cases, while I really got a D- in civics and have no idea how the world fucking works'
>you should go join the guys in Oregon, they might try to hire you as legal counsel.
>but they have to pay you in dildos that they get from 'supporters'
It's super easy in Ohio
>>Deputy: Did you take class and shoot gun?
>>Deputy: picture and finger print?
>>Deputy: Did you bring money?
>>Deputy: Ok, we'll print it and call you.
Three weeks later picked it up
A M16 is obviously a Militia weapon. If this loses in the supreme court is will be quite a blow, but I don't expect America to last much longer anyway due to the demographics, so might as well go down fighting in court.
m-16 and full auto in general contribute to the common defense and are in common use under MILLER
not to mention the dept Homeland Security has official documents stating that FA is useful of personal defense
the government will literally have to argue that the HLS isn't a competent authority on defense (when DEFENSE in in their fucking name)
I highly doubt the ATF will get in trouble look at "Fast & Furious" holder fucked up, showed up to court with 500 pages of blacked squares, and got a slap on the wrist. the ATF is LAW
>I'm curious if police officers and politicians commit more felonies than the average American.
Why do you think politicians get butthurt about the NSA? It's because the NSA catches them being corrupt.
Because that counties sheriff is a faggot. CCW issue is up to the sheriff of whatever county you live in in CA. Some hand them out like candy on Halloween, some go full corruption and only issue them to friends, family, and those who make generous donations to the sheriff come election time.