Why is Sig's P22X line of handguns so expensive? I get why an all steel gun would carry a premium over all the plastic wonderguns but even their polymer-framed ones are costly? What do they do that handguns that cost half as much don't. Is it really as simple as some kind of faggy SEAL fanboyism? I'd love to own a P226 but the price is absurd.
Except that's wrong. The P22X pistols (220, 245, 225 226, 227, 228, 229, etc) have METAL frames, hence the price premium. The SP2022 is polymer and you can get it for less than a Glock, around $400. The P320 is polymer and it's priced competitively with Glocks, from $475-575, depending on if it has night sights.
This is such a cop-out, and one of the problems I have with MP5s and their clones as well. I'm not going to spend over $1K for a 50 year old design that's made out of stamped sheet metal just because it's been in a ton of movies and video games. You think it's fair to charge that much just on the basis that their are people stupid enough to pay that price?
Steel pistols, very good barrels, good QC, reputation, demand.
Pretty fucking simple. I don't understand why people always call quality pistols "premium" with regards to price. Glock is not the standard, it is a pistol priced appropriately for cost of production and capabilities. A glock 17 is not going to outshoot a p226 disregarding shooter abilities.
This is the wrong place to ask though. Most people here are poor and sour as fuck. No life central.
They aren't stupid for buying something they want with disposable income they have. Just because you or I can't afford doesn't mean the price is "unfair". Price isn't reflective of just manufacturing costs.
very underrated but doesn't have as good as a trigger as the p226/22X's. Mags cost like $30 a piece and the aftermarket is quite limited.
I would honestly suggest keeping an eye out on places that occasionally bring in ~$450-$500 german police trade in p226's
It is, but I'm not sure it exists in a very interesting niche in the market. At the $400 price point, most buyers will compare it against a P226 and say that it's a budget-priced, cheaply-built pistol for people who can't afford "the real thing."
If the SP2022 existed in a vacuum, then it would probably be competitive with something like the HK USP9 for half the price, but most buyers don't see it like that. Most people are either going to say that for a polymer pistol, it uses the out-of-date DA/SA hammer fired system instead of a modern striker-fired system, or they're going to say that for a hammer-fired pistol, it lacks a certain specialness that guns like the P226 and USP definitely have.
To the informed buyer, though, it's a great buy.
And thats the main reason right there. It costs more in materials and construction to make a full metal pistol so its more expensive. I myself prefer DA/SA, no manual saftey, and all metal so a sig is perfect for me.
Nothing as long as it's semi-auto only and complies with 922r. Manufacturing a receiver for personal use is 100% legal. Tons of people complete 80% AR lowers and bend their own AK sheet metal.
Confirmed, mine was $625 out the door, lightly used from a pawn shop.
It needs a 16" barrel or a tax stamp as an SBR or no stock (a "sig brace" will also work) for it to be a "pistol". If you go the SBR route, you will need to serialize the receiver.
Be sure to look up the 922r regulations to make sure your not going to get assraped in jail. Also dont make any NFA items on accident like SBR or such unless you have a bucket of lube on hand for the ATF when they shove their entire leg up your ass.
Do your research.
I just picked up a used 229 that's barely been shot with 4 mags, a holster, a lock, a case, plus a free 50 round box of 180g Winchester from the GB near my house for about $600.
I agree with these two, they can be had for pretty cheap if you look around even with minimal effort.
Have yet to shoot it unfortunately.
The takedown lever is kind of sticky, but it's because it's literally so lightly used, it hasn't broken in yet.
Holy fucking shit yes! It's the one pistol that I've bought that I would have happily spent more on.
It's got a better trigger than my HK P30 and the ergos are fine. 2022 is probably the best bang for the buck in the sig line.
>Why is Sig's P22X line of handguns so expensive?
They aren't the secondhand market puts most if not all of the P22X lines at or below 500USD. Sure you have to do some looking.
They are good quality guns, i like my P226/P228 a lot and would buy them agian.
But i barely payed 1K for my P226 and P228 combined, buy used. 500USD is the sweet spot for secondhand handguns.
He means aluminum alloy. The frames of Sig P-series are non-magnetic. That said, there are a few pistols that they make which have stainless steel frames, but that's not the norm but rather a sort of special order option.
>plus a free 50 round box of 180g Winchester
I'll let you slide with getting a .40 since that gun was specifically made for that caliber. Not too bad.
.357 SIG > .40 in a 229
>they can be had for pretty cheap if you look around even with minimal effort.
Yuppies being told by their wives to sell some guns are my favorite gun stores.
So fucking mad at these douchebags right now.
>getting first handgun
>decide on a sig after holding it
>finally get a chance to go shoot it
>sights are off by a fucking mile
I thought it'd make a neat gift for my grandfather.
>Muh plastic guns!!!
>Muh stopping powah!!! (.40>.355!!!)
This is what I have to deal with. It was cheap and fit him perfectly, so I figured "fuck it".
>.357 SIG > .40 in a 229
I'm >>28571132 and >>28571223
As I stated, it was practically the perfect fit for my grandfather, and if he doesn't like it, I could always keep it and just get another barrel.
Seemed like a win-win to me.
How often do you find a used P22X Sig in excellent condition for under $500? You don't.
>$500 used Sig is in pretty good condition
>$550 used Sig is in good to very good condition
>$600 used Sig is in minty condition
Actually, I'd never shot a HANDGUN that wasn't dead-on with the sights from the factory until I shot an old Colt 1908 .25 caliber that had a replacement barrel. Something about the barrel replacement hadn't been done correctly so the gun shot about 6 inches low at 10 feet - this was compared to another 1908 which shot dead-on.
>Most other guns don't
That's not been my experience at all and I have owned at least 40 different models of handguns over the past three years.
as a rule if a pistol has fixed sights it should be zeroed from the factory
however just cause its zeroed from the factory doesnt mean it will shoot where you want it to
it could have been zeroed at 50 yards for 124 gr and you are shooting at 7yards with 115gr and the point of impact wont be the same as point of aim
The retardedly high bore axis sucks.
I like the decocker on them and the location of the slide release.
Everything else about them is pretty much "meh" in my opinion.
Guns are weird. They should be like software where every little bug and imperfection is iteratively ironed out and honed until the gun is like a bionic implant in your hand. But because they're not software it takes large amounts of money to re-tool just to fix relatively minor flaws. So the same gun sticks around for decades and gets cult followings from fanboys and fudds who throw tantrums if "muh hurratige" is changed.
Personally, I don't really think the bore axis *really* matters that much on 22X's. /k/ has always lead me to believe that it's like a fucking 3 inch difference or something ridiculous, but honestly, the axis, and the pistols themselves are a LOT smaller/more compact than I thought they'd be. (inb4 "Unless you're a babby manlet!!!")
>Why is Sig's P22X line of handguns so expensive?
Because they can. Seriously. For as much shit as they catch from half of this board at least CZs metal framed guns aren't full of shitty MIM parts, and they cost half the price.
>inb4 muh fit and finish
Read my post again.
I'm saying, personally, I don't think it's that big of a deal. That's like, what, just about an inch of difference? That seems like nitpicking to me.
That dude also seems to be holding the SIG kind of low as >>28571422 said, but it could just be perspective or something.
That being said, I might pick up a Strike One at some point, but I'd kill for a PL-14.
Does anyone know how the Strike One compares to the P7 in regards to bore axis? I've heard the P7 is stupid low too, though I've never held one before.
>The SP2022 is polymer and you can get it for less than a Glock, around $400. The P320 is polymer and it's priced competitively with Glocks, from $475-575, depending on if it has night sights.
I have both the SP2022 and the P320. Each are likable in their own way. That being said, I would gladly trade my SP2022 for $$ towards a 22x, but would NOT with my 320
All I've seen that Sigs do differently than Glocks, M&Ps, CZs, or HKs is require trips back to the factory. Sigs are expensive because people are willing to pay that much for brand name and marketing.
I don't really give a shit where the fuck it comes from. If Exeter Sigs are what I'll find in my stores and those suck than Sig sucks. I was really interested in the 238 and P224 for carry guns but I read so many failure cases for those I refuse to get any Sig. From what I read the p224 deserves a recall but 4 years later it's still out, still has problems, and still has a $900 price tag.
>ITT: Whaaa, why can't I afford nice things? Why doesn't the world accommodate me?!
>those fucking rubber Hogue grips
Anyone that uses that brand has ZERO sense of aesthetics. Especially that gay kid with the spraypainted AR.
This tbqh. Rubber hogue grips completely ruin any guns looks.
>posting best grips
Wood is best, but what you posted is miles better than the retch-inducing Hogue. I've had two GP-100s come with that grip and I've had to change them instantly because they're so disgusting.
No, they aren't. Hogue is the OEM manufacturer of many of Sig Sauer's "factory" wood, aluminum and G10 grips. They make industry standard grip panels, albeit some custom products, like Nill grips, are nicer. I agree that their rubber grips are ugly and really add too much width to a handgun grip, but the company has other products, many of which are good.
If you say so buddy. All a high bore axis does is increase felt recoil which is directly compensated in many ways by having a heavier weight in the pistol and proper training to control the firearm and not limp wristing it.
Would two comparable pistols for weight show an advantage between high and low axis? Sure. Too bad thats not the case with most comparisons.
OP implied that even sigs polymer handguns were expensive. I listed their polymer models and refuted bthat they are not expensive. Less than 500 dollars for most of them. My LGS had an sp2022 for 299 just a month ago.
As an owner of a spread of different handguns, including sigs. I can confidently say the slight increase in weight over a polymer handgun (5 or so ounces) does not compensate for the bore axis.
My g19 recoils significantly less than my p228.
Yeah it's prone to rusting but I don't really give a shit, I just hit it with 0000 and oil every once and a while.
I play but not very well, my buddy sent the tube to me because he thought I'd find it interesting. The green thing is a "petrified egg" that I found on my grandparent's property and busted up as a kid. Pretty sure it's just stone ground and polished to resemble an egg.
>I play but not very well, my buddy sent the tube to me because he thought I'd find it interesting.
Interesting to look at, or interesting to put into an amplifier? If the latter, what is the tube type and which amp are you gonna put it into? I've heard some weird things about Mesa tubes...
The egg is neat too.
Sigs used to be expensive because of the Swiss-German build quality. You got what you paid for. Then when they opened their American factory quality went from shit-tier to average. Nowadays I feel the metal Sigs are just a ripoff.
I mean just look at their marketing. Extra Benjamins for a white anchor? A dozen different guns no two share a magazine pattern even though there are a bunch of aftermarket 226 mags available? Shipping guns with just ONE magazine?
They're trying to price gouge every opportunity they get and it's just so obvious.
>What do they do that handguns that cost half as much don't.
From the trigger time I've gotten on em I have determined there is nothing they do that something else doesn't do better. The stupid high bore axis and cancerous lump of a decocker stand out as being particularly irritating for me.
I had one at one point. That said, bore axis, annoying decocker, one magazine, spare mags cost like 40-50$ because fuck you, doesn't take 226 mags for some reason and the first one had the barrel machined completely wrong so the slide couldn't even lock in battery so we took another off the shelf and it still didn't work because it turns out they don't run while dry.
As long as you remember to keep it lubed and don't mind investing in some overpriced mags it's a totally functional gun. I wouldn't feel under-gunned carrying one in a holster as a cop or security guard. But even for 400$ I feel there are many better options. Heck I traded for a used Ruger P-95 and I like that gun a lot more.
>SP2022 one magazine
You really need to find a new gun shop that doesn't steal from you. Both my 2022 and 320 shipped with 2 mags. Additionally, the Sig website lists the SP2022 as having 2 mags
It's improvement I suppose. Back when I bought mine they only shipped with one. This was about 3 years ago and the gun was 2 year old stock that was about to fall off roster so my dealer was blowing em out for 330.
TGS also occasionally has some SP2022 mags for cheaper. Just checked and now they have Mec-Gars for $30. Too bad the Californicated ones aren't so cheap.
In any case, the ergonomics are what really put me off.
its a higher quality craftsmenship pistol
Glocks and other poly striker fired pistols are good, but everyone says its jack of all trades master of none so it makes it a perfect duty gun. Sigs require more craftsmanship then a block design of plastic, which means more money to make them so theyre going to be more expensive
in general, yes its a good pistol
compared to other sigs especially after you shoot one you'll notice how much of a poor knock off it is of the better ones. Its like buying the cheap brand of shoes from the company that makes high quality shoes. they work and in general are ok but you know theyre knock offs
>its a higher quality craftsmenship pistol
They really aren't though, is the thing.
>Why is Sig's P22X line of handguns so expensive?
I really don't know why more info about me hasn't popped up within the past year. I'm not hard to find information on so I'd expect more than lazy assumptions.
>fag buys lc9
>gay uncle buys m&p
>fagdad buys hi-point
>hurr durr i cant hit shit
Bought my nogunz gf a Sig p238 for Christmas and she put every round into the black at 8yds.
Keep buying trash, poorfag.
If $500-$1k is too much for you to pay for a quality piece, you're too poor to be shooting for fun anyway.
Are you implying I assembled the gun myself? Your insults aren't even well thought out anymore.
2/10 you tried.
I wanted a threaded barrel from the start but the MK-25 TB ships with Sig's lefthand twist threaded barrel and I knew I wanted 1/2x28 threading. Just bought the regular MK-25 for about $200 less, then bought a SIlencerCo threaded barrel for a little more than I saved($220) but in the right threading.
I got one as a full-sized range gun to compliment my Makarov, and to give me a chance to "get used" to a polymerized pistol, and I do enjoy the thing considering I paid 360 and it came with 3 mags, but after getting an Armalite CZ knock off, I can definitely see some of the issues. It's not a good carry gun, using the switch that drops the hammer doesn't quite feel solid, and the slide has a lot of weight but doesn't mitigate as much recoil as it should. It's still a great pistol and I don't intend on selling it anytime soon, but if you can afford something better, may as well go for that. This pistol won't rise in value like others have, so it's not much of an investment
This man is right, I bought the hogue rubbers shortly after I bought my 228; shot it once with them and put the factories back on. I have larger hands and couldn't stand the way the gun held with those finger grooves.
Also wood is best but holy shit Spending 100+ dollars is hard to justify right now. If anyone knows where to find em cheaper let me know.
I read a lot of second or third hand griping about their finish and internal machining marks but hardly anything about actual reliability or breakage issues. And as far as I know all of CZ's stuff is either forged or investment cast, unlike the overrated German pistols that cost twice as much are like 40% MIM.
Assuming the quality control is there it goes forged>cast>MIM. Every time.
"ToddG", the same guy who claimed he needed to bring a mallet with him when taking the Beretta PX4 to classes - a failure NOBODY but him and his tiny group of sycophants has ever been able to replicate as far as I've been able to tell. I find it fucking hilarious how the attitudes toward both that gun and CZs in general has done a complete 180 in recent years ON HIS OWN FUCKING FORUM.
These are the people that shoot guns until they break. Glocks, Smiths, HKs, and Sigs can all go 10s of thousands of round with zero spring changes before having stoppages and breakages. Why would i go with a gun that can't do that just because some autist on the internet wants you to like what he likes.
>These are the people that shoot guns until they break.
You mean like this guy from the above thread? Also, mall ninjas may love them but SIGs haven't ever really had the reputation of going for "10s of thousands of rounds" with zero spring changes and other normal preventative maintenance. At least no more so than any other decent quality pistol.
>Ron J. Cohen has been President and Chief Executive Officer of Sigarms, Inc. since April 1, 2005. Mr. Cohen joined Sigarms, Inc. in December of 2004. Previously, Mr. Cohen has served as Chief Operating Officer of SIGARMS, and prior to that was General Manager of Kimber Manufacturing, from its inception on the East Coast in 1996. Born in the USA, Mr. Cohen is a graduate engineer from the Technion, in Haifa, Israel, and served as a combat field commander in the Israeli Army.
This is the reason why I don't like modern sigs and prefer the older german ones. It's this dickhead that made all this dudebro 30+ variants of the same gun with kimber and now it's the same with sig.
>that cringeworthy legion marketing
>thinking about getting a Sig
>Go on a board where people shitpost about them.
>Find a post about someone going "da joos!!"
>decide to not buy a SIG now
Yeah, I am glad there are so many informed gun owners now thanks to you.
IMO the P220 SAS Carry is bland, idk how else to say it.
Shot one today, it was just meh in all respects. I'm probably gonna sell or trade it, I got it for 300 bucks off of a friend.
Because they are metal-framed firearms in a world where polymer rules.
They are made by a company with a name completely ingrained in military-LE community.
For their price, the P226/P229 are worth it IME.
Its 50% branding, and 50% quality/material.
Now, I would not recommend a Sig P22X over a Glock or Beretta Px4/92/96, but thats only based on my experience with some fucked-up Sig-Sauer QC.
This might be why you think your sights are "off". The sight picture on 22x Sigs are different than other firearms. The third sight picture in this illustration is how you're supposed to hold the sights on target. Hope this helps you
There is nothing wrong with Sig, and nothing wrong with companies trying to make money off of idiots who like fancy grips. How else would the 1911 still be alive if it wasn't for that?
It's not just the tacky marketing. Again...look at Kimber's troubled history.
That being said, I'm really curious about the revolver they're revealing tomorrow.
Well shit. Apparently it has already been leaked. Not bad I guess, sort of underwhelming though. Looks like a S&W, and no doubt has at least as much MIM...and who the hell really wants a lightweight .357 snub, let alone THE lightest?