>>28541685 For every sword, there is armor. What if the door looks like wood on the outside, but actually some smarty put a 1/4" to 3/8" steel plate around and in the door? Would the shot bounce back and whack the intruder who is trying to do something nefarious? Any military folk can speak up on breaching standard metal business grade doors like the ones found in businesses or schools?
Warfare, maybe. But I have a hard time thinking of a better weapon for indoors CQC than a full auto 12 gauge like an AA-12 CQB (the 13" variant). Totally impractical to carry for a soldier, but for a SWAT team or counter-terror operation (or you know, home defense if we didn't have faggy laws) it could be baller as fuck. Assuming there are no hostages.
>>28542611 Frankly a high caliber (that is to say, .45 or 10mm or something of equivalent meatiness) SMG would be preferable. Auto shotguns tend to be massively heavy and bulky, especially when they have a big drum. The AA12 for example weights as much as a SAW. SMGs are much more point-able (imo) and the ammunition can be carried in greater quantities for equivalent weight and significantly less space.
>>28542716 I don't know, I'd just go with a compact carbine if I were going to go that route. SMGs seem really pointless to me unless you need something smaller than a shorty carbine for confined spaces or concealed carry.
Imagine an AA-12 with 3" #4 buckshot. That's 41 projectiles per shell, 20 shells in a drum, firing ~4 times a second. Heavy, but you sure do throw more projectiles than any other option.
Notice the distance at 10:10 the slugs are destroying cinder block
also good long rang slug shooting, that is literally flooring steel targets at.
starting at about the 11:00 mark he does some long distance, smooth-bore shotgun shooting. both slug and buck.
please /k/ live in reality. The shotgun is the most versatile and potent weapon available. the distance and knock down power of slugs can be coupled with the bird and buck in the same weapon, at the same time, at will.
you could blast doors, obstacles and vehicles apart with it. destroy terrestrial targets indefinitely
Shells are in infinitely supply at virtually any store you can find, for excellent prices.
>>28542611 >12 gauge auto shotgun for home defense >dispatch intruder >interior wall completely demolished >wife killed by pellets penetrating wall >computer destroyed by ricocheting pellets >tv no longer exists
inna apartment: >neighbors on both sides, above, and below all injured, walls destroyed, tvs shot, property damaged
The reason it's hard for civilians to automatic weapons is because of "it looks cool!!!" dumbasses like you. Overpenetration is a serious concern when choosing a home defense weapon, and the reason why small-gauge shotguns are generally better for this purpose.
>>28543113 .308 also "floors" people and it has the benefit of not being as thick as my thumb and coming in convenient 20 round mags. Regardless, hitting hard is wholly irrelevant when most of the shots you fire are at an unseen target of indeterminate location, so an eight round tube of heavy shells really cant compare to 20 rounds of .308 or 30 of .223.
>>28543377 The father pulled a gun on the cop right infront of his daughter. 100% his fault.
fucking gun-baiting journalism. The father got his daughter killed. completely and 100% his fault. also. has nothing to do with "shotguns" and will completely and utterly derail the thread. >>28543334 wish you would have just stayed out of the thread
>>28543485 >Find me 40mm buckshot first M576 Cartridge, more recently beehives that use mulitple .22 rounds using a 40mm shell as an inner barrel. >The XM-25 seemed to do fine with 25mm The XM25 is 25mm specifically because anything less was deemed too weak to be useful, hence why they changed it from its original 20mm.
>>28543261 Maybe in a war zone with clear ROE, but in any real world scenario target identification should be on ones mind, unless your a git off my land deer stand fud. The ability to knock down a target even wearing plates is useful, blunt force trauma is still a thing with slugs. The ability to expose your self once to put 6-9 projectiles in a space the size of a dinner plate as opposed to pulling a trigger that many times fighting recoil each round shouldn't be argued. A majority of engagements will happen with in 75 yards bout a city block. Not to mention moving targets, or moving shooter (vehicle)aster race. Best improvised mortar/rpg in history, go to diy hand grenade of all time. 6 pellets 00buck X 6 shells = 36 rounds down range btw.
Shotguns are way more a tool than a weapon. Capacity is a big negative for one. I'd rather have 30 rounds than 8 in any situation. Range is another issue. Sure slugs have decent range but while your being ambushed from a treeline 120 meters away and you have breaching rounds or buck shot in your tube good luck getting to switch to your slugs. Shotguns have a place in combat. But definitely not as a primary weapon. And for house clearing I want something with lots of rounds that is easy to point quickly that I can get multiple rounds on target quickly. Just my opinion.
>>28543257 >The reason it's hard for civilians to automatic weapons is because of "it looks cool!!!" dumbasses like you. but that's wrong, you assclown. NFA exists because of fat wops like pic related.
Shotguns have uses in jungle warfare. You see the slightest glimpse of the enemy in the jungle, shoot over there with some buck shot and you have him. But that would only be viable for special operations in small man teams. Ever other situation it's probably easier to have 20 guys spraying full auto at everything. Enter Vietnam.
>>28543600 Fucking fiocchibois. I always thought they had good ammo, but it turns out it's kinda bleh.
Anyway OP, I sort of agree with what most of the guys here are saying. A shotgun is too big, too heavy, and too cumbersome to really be a good choice over most other small arms. It's still a very deadly and effective weapon, but we have better options now.
I guess I could see it being mounted on something with a super large mag or belt and used in a thick environment like a jungle to just mow down enemies hiding closeby in the brush. I guess that would be cool.
>>28545972 Could you just imagine all of the foliage foofing into the air as hundreds of lead balls mangle everything within 50 yards. Yea, belt fed and like 600rpm fire rate. What a devastating machine.
I have seen gel tests with 4" of penetration from bird shot, but I've also seen the redneck videos with people just blasting chunks of beef as well. I do not want to be on the receiving end of birdshot because I think it highly likely I would shortly bleed out from the tissue damage.
But it's a non-starter anyway, because multiple videos have already shown nothing lighter than target loads stops in drywall. So why settle for bird shot at that point when you could just use buck shot instead?
>>28548128 >be me >be red orchestra 2 >hear Germans shit talking in room >YOU ARE TO HEAR ABOUT GLORIOUS DRUMS OF RUSSIA >do my best russian "UUUURRAAAAAAAAAA" >rush into room spraying and praying >have two niggers with nuggets follow behind me >i get rekt >but there are 7 dead krauts around me >rest of team mop up floor
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