Footage of Mexican Marines raiding El Chapo's safehouse has been released.
dudes have so much fucking gear on them they can barely fit through these hallways.
>Decent stack, I've seen worse from U.S. Marines and Army easily
>Decent trigger and muzzle discipline throughout
>A few seemingly random shots, but mostly controlled pairs and no real blind spraying
>Strong communication throughout
Not bad, more impressed than I thought I would be.
Only real criticism is lack of speed and aggression with too much standing around bunching up and backing up hesitating.
>Only real criticism is lack of speed and aggression with too much standing around bunching up and backing up hesitating.
This, they really did seem scared.
Maybe they didn't know the house layout?
>unorganized as fuck
>not following orders, commander had to repeat numerous times the same orders
>not even entering the building with the shield in the first place, maybe they wouldn't have lost a marine
>firing their weapons uncontrollably
>every look like they were lost
airsofters can do a better job than this
i thought that was a grenade launcher.
they are marine
and they are under equipped for CQB, they need more gear, pratical one
one guy even have a M203, which is unsuiable for a house raid
Okay Travis. Maybe next time they arrest a notoriously violent drug lord you should tag along.
When you don't know the layout of the house and you're scared shitless because your family might get killed for what you're doing, you're gonna fuck up.
Plus their going up against manuel and juan who probably can't shoot for shit.
According to SOFREP, the purpose of the raid was actually to capture Chapo's top sicario/hitman. They were probably expecting them to be heavily armed or have the place rigged with booby traps. You can see a Barrett on the floor in one of the rooms and pictures of the gunmen show that they all had some kind of AR-15 with some kind of grenade launcher. Also, as you can see one of their guys got hit almost immediately. Can't blame them for being cautious, this isn't an action movie or a video game.
>Maybe they didn't know the house layout?
Doesn't matter either way. I'm guessing their training didn't emphasize, or they forgot, the importance of doing anything to not get stuck in a chokepoint and losing momentum and flooding rooms to overwhelm opposition.
You could pick those apart as pretty fatal flaws in the whole operation, but again they did pretty well aside from that.
They certainly did better than those French police did after the Hebdo shooting.
Here in Finland we were trained that the second guy in a stack should always forcibly push the first guy in to stop the hesitation. The marines in that footage clearly didn't do that.
For any of you milfags in other countries, were you trained to do this?
>firing their weapons uncontrollably
>airsofters can do a better job than this
because they are real operator with real gun
not some faggot with plastic BB gun
Squad leader sure as fuck doesn't take point. The idea is to kill your enemy, not to make your own forces combat ineffective by removing the leadership.
I've never had that problem, so no.
U.S. army fag here. Closest thing to that we've been taught is that you don't stop for a downed man. Ever. Walk over his ass, trample him, push him out of your way, whatever. GET INSIDE THAT FUCKING ROOM
Yeah, but the marines in that footage could clearly have used those tactics. Besides, this was training given to signaliers who are only expected to secure empty buildings, instead of conducting proper CQC action against a determined enemy.
Included in the training was that the first guy doesn't move before the second starts pushing. So they move in together, close as you can get and if the first guy gets shot, he essentially acts as a meatshield for the second.
it is just a joke
but the AN-94 fire a 43mm thermobaric grenade
it is less lethal than a 40mm frag grenade
no pratically it can be used for a hostage rescue operation
>boris why you brink grenade to the hostage rescue
>YUO SEE IVAN, IN RUSSIA WE NOT RESCUE THE HOSTAGE, FOR BY TIME WE GET TO THEM THE KEBAP MAY HAVE ALREADY CONVINCE HIM TO BE THE TERORIST TOO
they don't give a fuck, they'll use thermobaric rockets in hostage situations as well. See: >>28508769
I like the Russian FUCK YOU attitude of anti-terrorism.
I hear you guys saying that they were being to slow and stopping at chokepoints, but what are you supposed to do in those situations? Seems to me like moving too fast is a good way to catch a bullet on your way into a room.
Training =/= reality. Plenty of footage of US troops in Fallujah hesitating, stopping and backing up just like in the OP video.
It's a bit of a different situation when you've actually got people wanting to kill you on the other side.
Regardless how good the Mexican armed forces are the scary part is despite one of the strongest militaries in latin America cartels still control half the country. ISIS is the only organization you can compare in terms of asymmetric warfare. Cartels have fought a large well equipped military to a standstill.
With terrorists in North Caucasus they use explosives. But in the city, hostage rescue is usually a shore.
i am not sure that the rocket in >>28508769 fire wall breeching round or thermobaric round
but everybody in the house is dead both way
That's why I'm asking.
Yeah but I suppose SAS or similar would do it faster? Isn't speed important in situations like this, so you confuse the hostiles? These guys seemed kinda lost.
>Cartels have fought a large well equipped military to a standstill.
Only because of corruption. Those militias in Mexico or what-not kicked the shit out of the local cartel, to the point where the government itself had to step in to try to disarm them.
>Yeah but I suppose SAS or similar would do it faster? Isn't speed important in situations like this, so you confuse the hostiles? These guys seemed kinda lost.
Marines =/= Tier 1 operators.
It's less about confusing your opposition and more about overwhelming them with superior numbers and fire. You pin them down with a grenade / flashbang and move in with enough speed for them to not have regained their senses and firing position. At which point you'll hopefully have multiple guns pointed at a single gunman.
Copy your exact sentences, but change "Iraq war" to "this footage"
He's being extradited. Going to end up in ADX Florence, restrained, in a darkened room, behind a heavy steel door. Guarded 24/7 and the entire prison is surrounded by flat land with no cover. Let's see him escape from that.
Are you kidding me? MOUT is one of the the toughest and most difficult things you can do on the battlefield. You could have hostiles at all angles and dimensions. Its not like in the video games or movies where 1 or 2 guys clear and holds a whole building.
A building as big as pic related is probably almost a 2 company job.
This is of course what you want to have, probably not what you have.
Clearing houses takes time and manpower.
Why not just use flamethrowers if there are no hostages?
Or you could do it the Russian way.
>They certainly did better than those French police did after the Hebdo shooting.
Dude I wouldn't have gone into that apartment either. You won't expect druglords to blow themselves up. I say if you're doing a raid on a fucking muslim just level the place.
You're an actual retard that doesn't actually know what hes saying. There's a mile of difference between training and video games to actually hearing the enemy scream for your blood and being close enough to be gutted to death.
Angles fucking everywhere where a kebab can come out and waste your entire stack, grenades are almost instant death if cooked properly, the issues of MOUT are very large.
See >>28509134. The biggest examples you can see of how difficult it is to clear buildings of all types is recent Kosovo conflict, War in Donbass, Crimean conflicts, and the outlying middle eastern countries efforts at reducing ISIS influence in the region.
I have massive respect for the marines for even having the balls to make it through the front door.
They didn't know whether there were civilians in the building. The squad leader tells them to make sure they can see their target before they shoot and you see them detaining a (presumably) unarmed woman later in the video. These raids can be incredibly complex and severely punish mistakes. Props to those Marines.
I already stated I don't have a clue about this shit, that's why I'm asking for fucks sake. I know rather little about infantry tactics, especially about CQB, don't get mad at me.
Thanks for answers.
I don't know, I expected things to be faster. How long did it take for SAS to clear Iranian embassy?
>How long did it take for SAS to clear Iranian embassy?
17 minutes. They killed 5 out of 6 terrorists. The building was a bit larger than the one the Mexicans are clearing in the OP.
>I don't know, I expected things to be faster
MOUT is fast if troops move with confidence, but such confidence is effectively found only in the best of soldiers. You can't send in marines and expect them to do the job like tier 1 operators.
They did kinda poorly honestly. A lot of mistakes that could've cost the operation dearly. But this was in the 80s and these operations have gotten better over time.
A group of /k/ommandos would have more planning and coordination than the fucking hyperjew assault.
>Warning, large amounts of fast paced operating
They're not hesitating in that footage. The terrorist rushes out of the building and they shoot him at the door. They start moving in slowly but deliberately as soon as he's securely eliminated.
A group of /k/ommandos would shit the bed and cower in a corner in the face of actual conflict. Like those chucklefuck tripfags who got arrested at the BLM rally.
First video is Army SF, not Delta
>A group of /k/ommandos would shit the bed and cower in a corner in the face of actual conflict. Like those chucklefuck tripfags who got arrested at the BLM rally.
Pick at random and that's what would happen. Pick the very best and you'd end up with actual operators.
Why do they all have inwards opening doors?
It's not homosexuality, it's fraternity.
Well, the cartels didnt exactly "fight" so much as poison and seep into everything around the army. You can't exactly fight well if you have no idea who is bought (and there will be people on the cartel's payroll), your own family easily targetted and some of your own bosses and political leaders being on the payroll or just scared out of their own wits.
good lord, the things I would do for one and its ammo.
8 man team places individual entry devices on vulnerable walls and doors
They trigger the devices
The roof comes down because there are no more walls to hold it up on the left half of the building
Another successful rainbow six raid
Pretty sure the mexican government knew where El Chapo was and just launched attacks like this to show they were trying. The only reason El Chapo was caught was he probably forgot to pay someone on time.
Dude exactly, because who's going to be the best at organizing the rest of the team, the guy in back who can see everything or the guy in front with a face full of muzzle flashes, shrapnel, and the enemy?
you assault through with another person, even if it's scary. getting bunched up can guarantee massive casualties if your enemy gets that split second of oppurtunity.
These guys probably scared as fuck (understandable) but that comes with the territory, mout is a tactical nightmare but multiple hesitations will get your friends killed without shitloads of luck.
>Hostage Situation on a Balcony
>One team tries to negotiate while the other gets on the roof
>Guy with suppressed pistol shots one of the hostage takers in the head from above while he's distracted
>Other hostage taker doesn't know what's going on and comes out with his weapon
>Also gets shot in the head
Leaving him alive was retarded. The man is too dangerous to let live. Even in prison, he can kill people. Not the least of which being everyone who planned and executed his capture. And then there are the prison guards who he can bribe, threaten or assassinate. And as an intel source he's useless because there is literally nothing to offer him as an exchange. Better to have executed him and been done.
Mad props to those Marines, though. It takes huge balls just to be a part of that when not only is your ass on the line, but your whole family's. While I generally despise taconiggers, at least those guys are cleaning up their country.
Or you could take a look at how the Iranian embassy raid went, all the way back in the 80s, that operation went all kinds of wrong and still the SAS came thought aggressively.
These guys are typical though guy marines, all talk and no guts, sorry but they are clearly latin american macho men who are more concerned with looks rather than training.
>Revolving grenade launcher
Gear queer to the max
>During the firefight, Chapo escaped through a series of tunnels and then tried to flee in a stolen vehicle. Federal agents caught sight of him and arrested him on the spot. According to one account, the arresting agents had not even been aware of the larger mission being carried out in the area by Mexican Marines. Arresting Chapo was simply a chance encounter, a stroke of good luck.
The guy was known for digging using tunnels for all sorts of things.. What a god damn surprise he used one to escape once again. It's not like even I could've guessed that and I ain't even a remotely trained in planning raids like this.
If there are sewers under or near that house I would have sealed them of and in doing so ensured no possible escape route but then again I've never planned anything like this so whatever.
Not the previous anon, but it is more difficult to fight back against overwhelming force (tons of dudes spraying tons of rounds your way while advancing quickly and screaming their nuts off) then one or two guys being very hesitant.
If there are boobytraps or hostages, the hesitant way may be the only way which makes things easier for the defenders.
He won't bribe his way out, but he could get messages through. He can still order hits. The fucker has enough money to get lots of people killed.
They should have executed him on the spot.
People with connections and money lie that, you don't leave alive. You catch them and end them. And then you interrogate the people under them and cross off every name they give you. We aren't going to win this shit in Mexico with lawyers and prisons. We're going to win it by exterminating so many players that the game can't go on. I mean, Guzman spent years in prison and still controlled his cartel from the inside. He still killed people. Literally the only difference escape made was in the quality of his accommodations.
No. So long as their lungs draw breath, these men are danerous. Kill them. Every one of them. I wouldn't even bother with making a show of capturing them. They go in a house. A JDAM goes in the house. A team goes in after to catalog the pieces. We can identify these guys via DNA just fine.
What are you going to get by torturing him? Leaders are actually shit intelligence assets if they don't have anything to bargain for. Once he disappears down a black site on this side of the border, he's lost. He'll never get out and he knows it. So you literally have nothing to offer him in exchange for intel. All you can do is let him see his lawyer, shovel him his three squares a day and wait for him to have anybody who pisses him off executed.
Killing these people is the best way to handle them. Even if it means that somebody immediately takes their place. Actually, that's the best scenario for us. We just keep looping off every head that grows back and eventually, we destabilize the entire system to the point that it just eats itself in this eternal spasm of violence. If the Cartels are busy enough fighting over who gets to be in charge, eventually they won't be able to manage themselves. We can get a toehold and if not end them completely, reduce them to manageable chunks.
That game is an arcade fun shooter, not a tactical sim. Try the early R6 games up to and including Raven Shield, the early ones in particular are extremely complex and rewarding when you can set up your teams properly.
You have no idea what it's like to be a high value target in federal custody, do you?
You get put in what is essentially a concrete oubliette. No communication with the outside world. No chance of ever leaving. If you try to not eat the food, they'll just shove it up your ass.
I can't blame these guys. They were victims of their 3rd world training and lots of real world fear. It would be hard for me not to have diarrhea seeping into my socks after the first room.
Keep believing that billions have no power. Not to mention worldwide business associates and people he holds investments with. Prison has its own culture and guards are a part of it. They do shady shit all the time and like to gossip and talk.
If you're some random haji or Chicago nigger, sure. Guzman has multi-million dollar lawyers just to talk to his other multi-million dollar lawyers. At some point, the prison system will let him have his way just to save their budget, which he can and will tank with lawsuits over everything from cell size to how many plys his toilet paper has.
There is literally no benefit to keeping him alive. If I were in charge of him right now, I'd handcuff him to a chair, zip tie a plastic sack over his head and take a fucking smoke break. Poor fucker just couldn't take the strain and had hisself a heart attack. Sho nuff, judge.
Well, I hope they were all wearing masks otherwise we'll see some new chainsaw videos.
Or just pictures of dead dudes with their heads cut off and skin filleted from their skulls.
I would be too if I were a Mexican Marine. Some of these cartel guys are miltiary veterans. On top of that, infiltration into the higher echelons of Mexican government is a thing, so intentionally bad intel that can get you killed isn't unheard of.
Why did the guy who got shot have a Camelbak?
Does anyone use sub-machine guns for CQB or is that solidly 80's-90's thing?
They were using .556 and it didn't over penetrate the walls and kill someones dog in the house two miles away. How?
>Why did the guy who got shot have a Camelbak?
Quite possible that the same people who raided the house had to guard it for the rest of the day. If you see news footage that came out on the day of his capture, you can see marines patrolling the block around the house.
You have every right to be scared. You have every right to shit yourself. What you shouldn't do as an operator is forget your training. That should be so drilled into you that you're done clearing that house before you even notice the shit on your legs.
look , im going to answer some questions , first is the marines did now know the raid was going to happen this was in a aprox 1 hour get your shit ready stuff , the guy with the jacket is probably intel, they where expecting el chapo , not hostages , chapo escaped via a tunnel and was caught outside
Actually, whenever the Army or Marines engage in force they always win.
The trick is trying to fix the sicarios in place and try to cut off their escape routes as they will normally take off in a flash once they see they are out gunned.
Just like they were the last two times the little asshole escaped.
This, children, is why we don't take high profile targets with tons of money and connections prisoner. In stead, we shoot them in the process of capturing then or just off them in a cell and say they had a heart attack.
>they are a fucking joke compared to normal fucking cops that this point
Do you think you can say that with a straight face to the widows of the police that get killed down there on a weekly basis?
That chopper that got shot down a while ago? turns out Mencho got info that a raid was coming and had had patrols looking for them.
Two RPGs hits did the job.
He fucked up this time getting caught alive. One of his former partners, El Azul, stayed so low key his wanted picture was like 20 years old.
Ego and flash were Chapo's latter day weakness.
Ausfag who watched that shit show go down.
No violence of action when it came to the entry.
Compare that to the delta/sf conventional entry that was posted earlier.
The use of rifle rounds that work on the basis of fragmentation for 'stopping power' in an enclosed tightly spaced area that used to be a former bank. Shrapnel galore.
Funnily enough a former TAG-East commander actually pointed out the strange use of 5.56 in such a setting.
Finally, the fact that a total of 22 rounds were expended by the TRG officers and only 7 made their way on target,
>but the AN-94 fire a 43mm thermobaric grenade
Prove it, I'm assuming that the grenade launcher that fits onto the AN-94 is just whatever they attach to the rails of an AK
Why would they use a thermo instead of a regular HE round. I call bullshit
One thing I don't understand about these chechen war/grozny images is why they are sitting out in the middle of nowhere in a ruined city
surely those are primetime targets for even a semi skilled sniper.
2CDO were held out of the op because NSWPOL wouldn't hand jurisdiction higher up the chain to AFP when they should have, end result was TRG who didn't know what the fuck to do in a glass and marble building ended up killing a hostage after a retardedly botched breach.
TRG and NSWPOL got fucking reamed internally by AFP SOG and 2CDO and immediately the AG drafted legislation to give AFP the power to take over jurisdiction to hand it to 2CDO if need be.
I HOPE THEY KILL PENN AS RETALIATION. FOR THE LULZ!
sorry for my typo
it was a GM-94 not an AN-94
they fire thermobaric grenade be cause HE-Frag grenade is too dangerous for CQB
HE-Frad round like the M406 or M433 safe range is about 130 meters
the thermobaric VGM93 is only 10 meters
There was a reason why no one wanted to kill him. If you were on that team and fired the shot that took Chapo's life, then don't be surprised when your family is crucified and you have to find somewhere to hide out.
It's stupid to imagine it's just him and no one else. Just as monarchs have their sons, and presidents their vice presidents, Chapo has to have some second man.
So why not do that now? The second man would obviously have "Gaurds" so no one knows his tales. Other than that, he'd be wanted in nearly every other country. Besides, I'd stay. Money can buy, but power consumes.
>didn't lose a single person
>hesitations get your friends killed
God dammit. Full on day/k/are in here.
Didn't anyone watch the Bin Laden raid videos? They went slowly and methodically through Bin Laden's house.
There is no point in storming a room if you're just trying to capture someone. If you can cut off their escape routes then you just need to wait them out.
The only time you storm a building quickly is if there are hostages in danger.
No hostages=no rush
It's not like Chapo has a helicopter on top of the building, or is going to flap his arms to fly away.
Spics on /pol/ contradict you, and seeing as how we dont have flags on this board i'd wonder if you're in Mexico. Regardless in the video you can see from the tiny chips the bullets took off the walls, that specific building is poured concrete.
>Zero Dark Thirty is a 2012 American action thriller film
>The film stars Jessica Chastain as Maya, a fictional CIA intelligence analyst
>Zero Dark Thirty has received criticism for historical inaccuracy.
>Hersh's U.S. and Pakistani intelligence sources stated that the U.S. had learned of bin Laden's location through an ISI walk-in seeking the $25 million reward and not through tracking a courier; this had been previously reported by R.J. Hillhouse and was afterward confirmed by NBC News. The White House denied Hersh's report.
God you people can be fucking retards if you think every fictional work is absolute historical fact.
Would this work?
>not training in armor or with the rest of your gear
>only one guy has a sling
>their holsters are only level 1
>building barracides so they cant see on the other side
>but making them out of mesh so they can see through the other side
At first I though this was just some team run and gun match or some Yager wanabe class, but then I saw that they were wearing LEO shirts. I wonder how many tax dollars were burned proving this retarded training.
CQC is designed around four principles: speed, surprise, violence of action, and flow.
Only one of these principles applies to this entry technique, and that is violence of action.
There is no speed; the stack hangs out at the point of entry and waits to enter.
There is no surprise; the stack stays clustered in the killzone, which is predictable.
There is no flow; the stack is hesitant to progress and close with the enemy.
In a real-world situation, this stack would get shot to shit for remaining in the door.
¿Qué carajo es lo que acabas de mierda dices de mí, pequeña perra? Voy a tener que sabes que me gradué parte superior de mi clase en los Navy Seals, y ha estado involucrado en numerosas incursiones secretas sobre Al-Qaeda, y tengo más de 300 muertes confirmadas. Estoy entrenado en la guerra gorila y yo soy el francotirador superior en todas las fuerzas armadas de Estados Unidos. No eres nada para mí, pero sólo otro objetivo. Yo limpiaré usted a la mierda con la precisión de la talla de los cuales nunca se ha visto antes en esta Tierra, recuerda mis malditas palabras. ¿Cree que puede salirse con la suya diciendo que una mierda para mí a través de Internet? Piense otra vez, hijo de puta. En estos momentos estoy en contacto con mi red secreta de espías a través de los EE.UU. y su IP está siendo rastreado en este momento para prepararse mejor para la tormenta, gusano. La tormenta que arrasa con lo poco patético que llamas tu vida. Estás jodido muerto, chico. Puedo estar en cualquier lugar, en cualquier momento, y te puedo matar en más de siete mil maneras, y eso es sólo con mis propias manos. No sólo soy ampliamente entrenado en combate sin armas, pero no tengo acceso a todo el arsenal de la Marina de los Estados Unidos y lo voy a utilizar en toda su extensión para limpiar el culo miserables de la faz del continente, pedazo de mierda. Ojalá que podría haber sabido lo retribución impía su pequeño comentario "inteligente" estaba a punto de hacer caer sobre ti, tal vez se habría celebrado su maldita lengua. Pero no podía, no lo hiciste, y ahora está pagando el precio, Malditos idiota. Voy a cagar furia sobre ti y te ahogaré en ella. Estás jodido muerto, chico.
>Not the front view where you can see the terrorist charging the door before getting gunned down.
They're not hesitating, it just would have been full retard for them to push in at that moment.
I was taught to give a reassuring shove if he tries to back out for no reason. But always listen to him first, he may be hearing or seeing some shit that you don't.
Then again, we never had that problem. Always just mobbed the fuck out of the room.
As long as drugs are illegal, there will be a multi billion dollar a year industry in the back market. The violence and corruption are natural consequences of this. Legalise drugs, everyone is wealthier, less public money wasted murdering peoples dogs and arresting/jailing non violent offenders (and they could get actual help for their issues if they're addicts). All while completely destroying the financial base of the cartels. It's the only logical solution.
(spoiler: it'll never happen because the government doesn't care about making the world a better place, they want to control you. And controlling what substances you can and can't put in to your body is an extension of that control. Police love the pointless drugs war because their budgets are bolstered by stealing peoples shit via asset forfeiture.)
Net result is the creation of a shit load of violent criminals, and tens of thousands of dead Mexicans.