A thought crossed my mind today, why exactly has 30 cartridges become standard capacity for almost every countries magazines? I'm guessing there's a little more to it than just picking some random number and having it stick, why not 40 round magazines, or 20, 25, 35, ext...
Just to clarify I'm not asking why every country has the same standard ammunition capacity for their assault rifles (most at least), but rather why 30 is that number
It has to do with weight, maneuverability and ergonomics.
Sort of like cars and gas tank capacities, it would be retarded to have a Prius with a 32 gal tank same with a truck with a 12 gallon tank.
30 round magazines facilitate 10 bursts of 3 rounds, which is considered a standard burst length for most firearms.
I assume the trend has continued with other ARs that do not feature a burst setting because of requirements set by governments (magazine capacity for new service rifle must be 30)
Well all I know for sure is that uzi mags bug the shit out of my ocd.
But I'm pretty sure the old standard was 20, but Mr klashnikov decided to have 30, so that granteed the US ,at least, looked at having theirs bigger, but couldn't get them to feed well and settled for even.
Another gun that bugged me was the french bolt action rifle with only three rounds. Your only two shots away from not even having a magazine at all.
>But I'm pretty sure the old standard was 20, but Mr klashnikov decided to have 30, so that granteed the US ,at least, looked at having theirs bigger, but couldn't get them to feed well and settled for even.
The Bertier was outdated by the first world war but the concept of enblocs were considered good enough to not need much more and they were better than the Lebels. They upgraded in during so they weren't scomplelty outclassed during.
C&Rsenel does a magnificent job going over the logic of the military for this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrKN31COHxY
lots of subguns have 32 round capacities - UZI, Sten, Walther MPL, PM12 Sterling has 34, Carl G has 36, I think the idea was so soldiers could download their mags w/o being rendered less combat effective - like when US troops were downloading 20 rounders in their M16's
>why exactly has 30 cartridges become standard capacity for almost every countries magazines?
Because Mikhail wanted to kill a lot of Nazis and 30 rounds gave him a magazine that was not too long, did not curve too far forwards and was probably the most reliable during testing.
Then when the proliferation of assault rifles occurred other countries saw what Russia was doing and how good a system it was and jumped on the band wagon.
I'm sorry is the STG the most prolific firearm on the planet?
Did I say the STG invented 30 round mags?
>hurr they are talking about AKs in history better inject muh STG on every possible occasion.
>TO ALL YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKERS
The magazine the AK uses was developed before it, for another rifle, by another arms engineer. Klashnikov was orderd to use it, he did absolutely nothing to invent it.
probably because the size of 30 round mags was reasonable. do you want to be maneuvering with 50 round mags?
it was a well rounded number
it was high capacity for guns that before only held 5 - 10 rounds
The rifle in question, and the STG is still older.
Why would anyone download a modern magazine? Magazines are designed to take the full capacity. I don't see why robbing yourself of half a magazine (with a full load of ~9 magazines) is worth the marginally - if at all - improved magazine reliability.
>Why would anyone download a modern magazine?
Fuddlore is a tough thing to kill, anon.
>Why would anyone download a modern magazine?
Because ARfags have such a shit rifle that full mags don't want to seat without slapping the shit out of it, they also like to premature eject rounds if you slam a mag in to hard. You want to slowly charge your ar on a full mag? Lol enjoy another premature ejection
>Magazines are designed to take the full capacity.
Probably just part of the fudd lore that storing mags loaded hurts the springs, and of course we're still excluding ARfags from this discussion because see above
Also liberals again
>I don't see why robbing yourself of half a magazine (with a full load of ~9 magazines) is worth the marginally - if at all - improved magazine reliability.
See all above
Also liberals, ARfags and fudd lore apply here again
>read this post
>take a 30rnd pmag and strip 2 rounds out
>take a full 30rnd pmag
>alternate loading and ejecting both in AR
>two dozen tries later I can't tell the fucking difference
Are you full of shit anon
The Original AR-15 prototype used 25 round magazines like the FAMAS F1 models.
All Battle Rifles (G3, FAL, M14) use 20 round magazines.
The reason why in the West 30 became standard is because a 30 rounds of 5.56mm NATO takes up the same space as 20 rounds of 7.62mm NATO.
Here's a STANAG compared to a FN FAL magazine.
>Maybe you load mags hard. It's a thing.
This is literally the only way to load mags on an AR. It's not like an AK where you can rock+lock it, if you don't load an AR hard there is always a chance of the mag not seating properly if the magwell/magazine is dirty.
I'm not talking fucking slapping this shit out of it like people do, but a firm upward push. But slapping the shit out of it doesn't hurt it at all either, especially with pmags that have the overtravel stopper.
Im this guy
If anyone here is familiar with black or green follower military issue mags. You would know never to load them to 30. The first and second round dont always feed reliably. Now the military issues tan follower mags. These new mags have anti-tilt followers and feed better. But I still dont load any aluminum mags to a full 30, which is all I use thanks to uncle sam. PMAGs work fine with 30
Maybe with magpul followers and springs. But that doesn't change the fact the feed lips are so fucking bendy you could deform them with your thumb and forefinger
>he's talking about "modern" magazines
>I experiment with a "modern" magazine
>instead people shift the blame to the horribly outdated dinosaur of a magazine that should have been put down 3 decades ago
The shitty GI mags issued to the military have a tnedency to fuck up if loaded al the way. Considering they are built with cost savings and "eh good enough" standards in mind as opposed to mags meant to be competitive on the xivilian market.
tl;dr it only matters for shit milsurp mags.
But why not 30 real fuckin nato?
> tend to stick out the bottom
If Silicon Valley became it's own country, it would use 32 round box magazines, along with 64 and 128 round drum mags.
Nothing personell kids, but 30 ain't enough.
Hundreds of rounds through it and it still bananas all day.
I think he was doing a funny. The first post used the word 'download' to mean 'stick fewer than the maximum possible number of rounds in a magazine.' The second post was using 'download' to refer to getting something off the internet. There were public service ads about piracy that said "You wouldn't download a movie..." and things like that. So he was taking advantage of the fact that, in English, sometimes the same word means two different things. It's always funnier once it's meticulously explained.
If it looked damn close, I'd buy a bunch. Same with plum plastic grips. I want an ugly babby machine pistol/SMG in AK colors.
Pity there's no way to get an optic on this thing.
print or get someone to print one one in abs. vapor bath it to soften the exterior. While still soft, take a brush to it to create a bakelite pattern. Then follow Boris' instructions for candy ghosts for unlimited fakelite magaines.
Don't bully, anon. Raifus have feelings too.
I use them like slippers. My feet stay warm somehow, and I can step outside in them if need be.
ABS? Boris? I'm a little uneducated in this, anon, could you elaborate?
2 most common plastics used in 3d printing are PLA (hard, brittle, biodegradable) and ABS (higher temperature thermoplasic used fucking everywhere). Many people will give ABS prints something called a vapor bath, wherein acetone vapors soften the outermost plastic, with the goal of unifying the layers and creating a smooth finished product.
Here, while its "melting together", you take a brush to it to create a bakelite pattern. Let it harden. You can call it a day and paint it, or you can use it to make a mold for a 2 part castable plastic. This allows you to make many on the cheap, and if it breaks, you have a trunkload more. The easiest, most repeatable way to do this is to follow boris (of shovel AK, RPG shotgun, iron glock and plastic glock fame) guide titled "fruity ghost", wherein he and others make silicon molds and play with various plastics to make the polymer AR lower a viable item for more the "square range" use.
>Korobov > Kalashnikov
Simonov> everyone else
what about 100 rounder and casket mag?
the soviet done some experimental back in the 50 but then they jus stop
Nice, would definitely consider adding a 32 acp Vz 61 to my collection if I could get mini fakelites. Right now I just have the 380 version and can't find mags anywhere up here.
Nearly at the point I'm willing to pay IRG to bring me some in from czechpoint in the states...
Think about it this way: Silicon Valley and West-Cal would be anti-fun, Jefferson and Nor-Cal would be pro. I don't know enough about Central and So-Cal, but say it's an even split. That's 6 anti senators and 6 pro senators, which is a ratio of 1:1, instead of 1:0. You're basically gaining pro-gun states.
I'm kind of hung over, and math was never my best subject, so if this is incorrect then whatever.
>Why would anyone download a modern magazine? Magazines are designed to take the full capacity.
Because the body of the cartridge will get crushed if I load a full magazine on a closed bolt in my RFB.
They do make 30 round FAL mags, they're big as fuck