When did the Infantry stop mattering?

Infantry matters even more now.

>>28487299
The only thing that's stopped mattering is tanks.

They still do.

You can't conduct raids with tanks and drones, you can keep the peace from an F-35, you can't patrol with an APC. In insurgent warfare Infantry ESPECIALLY matters. While formal militaries can primarily be fought with armor and air, occupations, and insurgencies can't.

Plus you nees infantry to clear areas.

I never noticed that.

WW1 when they invented tanks

>>28487335
Thats not infantry
Thats police work

Conventional wars aren't fought anymore.

Sorry for going off topic, but why does the U.S. Military still use the m16? Why can't they just convert them into m4s or at least replace the current but stocks with collapsing stocks.

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>>28487369
It's called asymmetric warfare grandpa, and it is the way of the future.

>>28487369
For insurgencies, the line blurs. That's why they're so hard to combat.

>>28487382
They don't guy.

>>28487382
They ditched the M16

Even the Marines are moving to the M4.

>>28487299
Infantry has been primarily an occupation force since at least world war 1

That's probably one of the earlier examples since artillery did all the killing

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>>28487299

Right around the time politicians realized that the modern western citizens do not give a fuck about the collateral damage of drone strikes.

Like, it's almost kinda funny how many civilians the American drones have killed and still people willingly support the US government.

>>28487369
>WW1 when they invented tanks

Tanks have never topped infantry. In fact, they're now pretty much useless.

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>>28487419
Do you really think the primary cause of violent death (i.e. not disease) in WW1 was infantry?

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Holy fucking shit. Have any of you dipshits heard of combined arms?

I know this is /k/, but every once in a while we get a thread made by some halfwit that can't even read simple doctrine.

>>28487369

I'll take presence patrols for 500 autism bux Alex.

>>28487299

>When did the Infantry stop mattering?

The year 2200 when the human race went extinct.

>>28487484

>Do you really think the primary cause of violent death (i.e. not disease) in WW1 was infantry?

Literally where did he imply that? The number one killer is ALWAYS artillery, but you still need infantry to defend areas that you're trying to hold.

>>28487541
Because he implies that infantry were dominant until GWOT :^)

Trust me dude, you're preaching to the choir.

>>28487299
The only thing that's stopped mattering is aircraft carriers.

>>28487419
>DRONES KILL MUH CHILLUNS!! BAN DRONE WARFARE
>Use regular bombers
>Even more civilians die

People die in every war. Stop meming.

>>28487583

What is replacing aircraft carriers?

>>28487616
Nothing.

>>28487299
you tell us, you're the one with all the ideas

i cant remember the last time a war was won with nobody being put on the ground

>>28487299
Are you drunk ?

>>28487641

Don't you remember when Bill Clinton stopped the Kosovo War with just bombs?

>>28487327
And fighters. And carriers.

>>28487641
Besides the Libyan civil war?

>>28487641
Lord Obama's crushing victory over ISIS from the air, dropping tonnage not seen in modern wars, flying some sorties himself, and illuminating targets for other aircraft with the radiance of his smile.

To the military infantry still matter a fuckload
To the everyday pleb the infantry has no reason to exist because muh tanks muh drones.

Plus people tend to get more butthurt for whatever reason when soldiers kill people than when a pilot or drone does.

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>>28487403

Naw

US still uses a lot of M16's

Marines have a hard on for A4

>>28487616
Small boats armed with missiles and railguns, son.

>>28487403
Another reason to abolish USMC

>every Marine a carbineman
>abandoned amphibious assault capabilities
>we snowflake air force now, except smaller and shittier
>full speed ahead on the PC gender queer safe space train.

Why does USMC even exist? Are they even trying?

>>28487794

Aren't the marines already pretty much controlled by the Navy? The distinction exists for recruiting purposes.

>>28487794
They existed as shocktroops, now they still exist because people think marines are hardcore and cool.

>>28487616
Cruise missile swarms launched from 800 missiles away.

Jesus fuck anon it's like you're not even paying attention.

>>28487616
Modernized Iowa-class.

>>28487595

Wars gave a beginning and an end. Drone strikes are eternal. This is our life now anon.

>>28487782

No they're phasing out the A4 as we speak.

You'll see A2s and A3s floating around Air Force and Navy armories respectively for many years to come, though.

>>28487616

Drone swarms launched out of ship-borne launch tubes.

>>28487299
I think "Infantry" in the mindset of almost the entirety of modern war (Modern being the introduction and standardization of firearms, from line infantry to present) is irrelevant now. I think it's entirely void of any future use.

However, the Infantry has evolved. Infantry has evolved gradually since the start of the modern era, but I believe it's evolved fastest in the last 20 years or so.

I believe we recognized that the Cold War would never become hot, and that on a large scale, the major military powers of the world would never directly engage each other.

So much more is required of infantry now than ever before, if anything, infantry is more relevant than ever. I just wish that the basic OSUT course reflected that better. One day it will catch up.

>>28487782
Curious, why didn't they make adjustable buttstock for M16A4?

>>28487906
You need to bone up on marine corps history

>>28487335
Well you can...it just doesn't make for very good PR to use a shotgun canister on every random durka who looks AR your tank funny or bomb everything.

>>28487299
Infantry has always mattered, that's why every army in existence still has infantry. And even though armored vehicles, artillery, and aircraft are arguably superior to infantry, let's not forget the role of those things; to support infantry.
Say you want to take a position from the enemy and set it up as an FOB. Any decent position for an FOB is going to be surrounded by lots of open ground, so you use armored vehicles to keep infantry protected while they close in. It's most likely going to be heavily defended, so you might call in artillery or airstrikes on that position to soften them up for the infantry. After the infantry have cleared the objective and set up defensive positions, you use aircraft or scout vehicles to screen for any counter attacks. After you have established the FOB, you build forward observation posts, manned by infantry, to eliminate the need to constantly have aircraft or scout vehicles patrolling your immediate vicinity.
When it comes down to it, the key factor in your ability to take or hold a position is infantry. If you only have tanks, aircraft, and artillery, all you can really do is blow the place up. You need infantry to thoroughly sweep and clear an area, and then you need to "install" infantry at that location in order to properly defend it, otherwise, what's going to stop people from just wandering onto the base? It's beyond impractical to have armored vehicles covering absolutely every angle of approach at all times.

>>28487966
but they do. my issued a4 has a collapsible stock

>>28487419
Ukraine and Syria have shown that tanks are still very important but they aren't invincible

B2's dropping salvos of smart bombs on mud huts that were emptied out an hour ago - that's what proves infantry is useless.

/just AFmemes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nOkO8Sh2xs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-7L0Frj6vQ

the next time real shit goes down, infantry are gonna be packing some nasty shit.
I don't even want to know what kind of MANPADS are on the go. It's 2016.

>>28488040
You got most of it right except:
>let's not forget the role of those things; to support infantry.
Not necessarily. Think of everything doing it's part to accomplish an objective. Tanks and fighters aren't just around to protect the infantry. On the contrary, infantry is used often to protect tanks and air assets as well. Combined arms is the name of the game. Not infantry and everyone else. And not air power and everyone else. Everyone plays their part. The infantry didn't walk to Afghanistan, and the Air Force didn't just start landing fighter squadrons in the middle of Bagram either.

>>28487299

When the United States stopped fighting wars that matter, so, maybe 1953 if we're being generous.

>>28487327
>The only thing that's stopped mattering is tanks.

People actually believed this before the gulf wars.

Then they happened and people realized armor was a prerequisite for mobility in complex terrain.

Then they tested it at NTC vs drones and realized that not only was armor essential, drones suck dick at quality recon while infantry are slow at it.

If you want to get close, fast, without committing suicide, you need armor.

This is why cavalry is obsolete, BTW. Drones and helicopters fill the cavalry role. APCs and jeeps are worthless because tanks and IFVs do the same thing better.

Why are the only two photos of POGs?

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Are we considering SpecOps separate from the title "Infantry?"

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>>28488499

Fine, here

>>28487299
Here this is how it works

>Spec ops/spec ops intel (ISA) go in and gather whats going on, whos running what, catch high priority targets (or kill), etc.

How to do battle (large scale)

1.) Bomb the fuck out of them with your aviation units.
2.) armored and infantry move in after.
3.) arty behind them providing help
4.) aviation on call if support is needed

They are all cogs.

>>28488077
Ukraine has shown that modern tanks ARE invincible to atgms

>>28488858
It's shown that shitty Russian missiles are vulnerable to newest Russian defences.

Meanwhile TOW 2B [top attack, standoff, twin-EFP with counter-APS system and boosted aerodynamics] is rated effective against all existing and near-future active protection systems. 'Merica.

>>28488936
And how long is it going to be till we get CIWS systems with gatling cannons on the top of tanks?

>>28487782
implying you don't have a hard on for the A4

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>>28489135

Yeah, no, fuck the A4.

If I have to have a fucking full length barrel, I'll take the M27, thank you very much.

>>28488411
I'd hate to be the poor grunt that lugs that shit around.

Infantry recons and draws fire to find the targets for fire support. They also do the killing for when you can't crater everything in a 1 kilometer radius.

>>28489165
I agree that the M27 is an objectively better infantry rifle. I'm just saying that the A4 give an erection is all. not a big a hardon as my personal AR-15 Riafu but its a noticeable bulge.

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>>28489165
I carried a M16A4 when I deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan with 3rd ID. There is nothing wrong with it. I wouldn't want a 14 inch barrel and a wobbly telescoping stock in the mountains.

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>>28487369

>WW1 when they invented tanks

Oh, you mean targets?

>>28489096
Gatling cannons are old shit. Laser based CIWS is the future and doesn't require an assload of ammo

>>28487327
The tank will be relevant as long as the need for a vehicle to carry a large cannon and several machineguns exists.

>>28487914
Modernised with ERA and APS and Trident-based conventional anti-ship missiles

>>28489912
>lasers
>don't need an assload of ammo
>completely ignores need for big-ass batteries or power the damn things

>>28490018
The true king of the sea

>>28487299
Trillions of years from now when we ascend into the space as clouds of dust, thinking as one, like those before us.

>>28490171
Especially when we nail down development of retractable radar and comms

>>28487299
How much much does a hesco barrier cost?

>>28487299
infantry exists these days for the sole reason that the enemy does or may employ infantry. if you roll out with just a bunch of tanks and no infantry / scout assets ahead of them, it means that 1 or 2 well hidden enemy OPs with some radios or anti-armor capabilites can completely shit on your armor with zero consequence.

but basically when nukes and air power became advanced enough to in theory prevent a major ground war between any of the major world powers. and when warfare became more complex than simply who has the most men on the ground with the most training. guerilla warfare has shat on organized infantry for hundreds of years.

>>28490197
If missiles are hitting the ship, the bottom of the radars could be armored so that they survive explosions below them.
While still having free view of the sky.

>>28487678
You think the Libyan civil war is over? It went from Revolution to civil war as soon as Gaddafi fell. It's still happening.

>>28490296
That's genius! Promote that man!

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>>28487299
air strikes m8
all the infantry do now is designate targets
that is until they all sit at fob supervising tiny drones

>>28488506
pretty sure OP was referring to the GI issue vanilla infantryman

specops and government intelligence agencies are literally the most valuable asset in a world full of nuclear world powers

>>28489165
Doesn't the IAR have a 16.5 inch barrel?

>>28487794
Really the USMC only serves as a recruiting tool. Really, they might as well hand over control to the army so operations can be taken care of more smoothly.
>INB4 marine butt anger
That butt fury will go away pretty quick once you can't get a hold of any air support or medevac because the army and marines are on two different frequencies.

>>28490294
We have UAV's for scouting now
Infantry are mostly just filler, used because officers need slaves to boss around to justify their paychecks.

>>28487299

Never?

you cant hold territory with aircraft, you cant build defenses with tanks, you cant hold ground with vehicles under artillery and air bombardment...

infantry will always be important, even if the infantry are just replaced with infantry robots.

>>28487794
carbineperson*

>>28487794
They exist solely because of our military culture and the fanatic loyalty to them.
No politician is going to disband them.

>>28487299
Until they manage to make mobile drones like in chappie, they'll always have a place.

>>28487327
There will always be a huge psychological component to tanks.
To my knowledge, no US tank has been destroyed in the war on terror. That says a lot when habib realizes he can't durka durka it.

>>28491048
Plenty of M1s have been disabled or outright destroyed by IEDs, friendly fire, and RPG ambushes. Not a bad tank, just a very hostile environment.

Napoleonic wars, I'd say

>>28491048
Tanks are breddy easy to durka durka once you take then out of their natural habitat (open fields) and jam them into mazes of mudbrick houses or shittily made sprawls of flats, especially when those areas are full of snackbars wanting to durka durka all over the infidels.

Its just a question of how many shells you daisy chain and where you put them, or how many kebabs with RPGs you can muster.

>>28487794

America doesn't need the Marine Corps.

America wants the Marine Corps.

That's why.

(Your autism not included).

>>28487930
My armory in active duty army still has m16a2s that actually get used.

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>>28492630

Muhreen here 0311 formuhr.

I remember my squadleader was issued an m4 and would have me pull out my m16 when he had to rifle qual. This was like 2008, but yeah he felt he shot better with it.

No sweat off my sac.

>>28487299

August 6, 1945

Modern infantry are basically just bait to get shot at so air assets can bomb the hell out of the enemy.

>>28492721

Dumb

>>28492728

Dumber

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>>28492671
I wish I could use one of the m16s in our arms room, unfortunately they're reserved for the OPS people who sit in a room on the radio all day and leave them in a weapon rack the whole time. I beg the armorer to no avail. The m4 feels weird to me, I miss the m16 (feels more accurate to me too). Ironically, I couldn't wait to get my hands on an m4, now I don't want it.

>>28487419
This poster is a faggot and a muslim. he's a muslimfaggot if you will.

Drones are incredibly accurate and SOOO much information goes into every fucking strike you stupid fucking goatfucker.

>>28492740
Dumb enlisted spotted.

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>>28487419
>Export T-72M or just a T-72A hit from the side by a TOW2 in the middle of nowhere right in the open operated by the SAA who have shown no serious combined arms operations is proof that tanks are useless.

How about I turn the tables around and show a Export M1A1M with actual side armor taking hits.

When money buys intelligence and clicking a button makes your problems go away. Of course at the expense of taxpayers that is.

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>>28493138

its like this abrams is trying to commit suicide, takes a hit from left side, and then promptly presents its flank

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>>28493152
That what happens when incompetent people crew tanks.

>>28492721

Basically this.

With nuclear weapons large conventional militaries are fucking useless.

It's basically a vestigial organ, welfare for gung-ho people.

If 500,000 man army comes marching towards your country, just send some nukes every hour until they turn back...they will turn back or every city will be incinerated in their home country and everyone they love will die.

Much better off investing in nukes than man-power like tanks and shit.

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>>28488482
underrated post

>>28487299
When America became cucks and the world started using unconventional warfare against conventional units for the wrong reasons.

All its good for now is a show of force. You want something done? Call in a CAG and get shit done without all those rules Infantry live and die by.

In July, 1950, one news commentator rather plaintively remarked that warfare had not changed so much, after all. For some reason, ground troops still seemed to be necessary, in spite of the atom bomb. And oddly and unfortunately, to this gentleman, man still seemed to be an important ingredient in battle. Troops were still getting killed, in pain and fury and dust and filth. What happened to the widely-heralded pushbutton warfare where skilled, immaculate technicians who never suffered the misery and ignominy of basic training blew each other to kingdom come like gentlemen?

In this unconsciously plaintive cry lies the buried a great deal of the truth why the United States was almost defeated.

Nothing had happened to pushbutton warfare; its emergence was at hand. Horrible weapons that could destroy every city on Earth were at hand—at too many hands. But, pushbutton warfare meant Armageddon, and Armageddon, hopefully, will never be an end of national policy.

Americans in 1950 rediscovered something that since Hiroshima they had forgotten: you may fly over a land forever; you may bomb it, atomize it, pulverize it and wipe it clean of life—but if you desire to defend it, protect it and keep it for civilization, you must do this on the ground, the way the Roman legions did, by putting your young men in the mud.

Everyone knows there are some jobs that infantry can do better than other types of warfare.

If its just about body count that's one thing, but if you need to take territory and control land, you need infantry.

Sometimes dropping a couple nukes on civilians wins. But that's not always the goal of the military.

>>28490128
Tank is already generating its own electricity

>>28493081
>SOOO much information
Did you miss the whole signature strike thing?

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>>28487299
As a Brit Bong I can tell you in the British Armed Forces Infantry skills are more important than ever. The Royal Armoured Corps shaped itself from tankers to effective recce cavalryman for ops where tanks are not useful. 10 years ago to see a Royal Tank Regiment Trooper with a Sniper Rifle was unheard of. Now it is the norm for any RAC Regiment.

In the end, Infantry and the skills they have are VERY important to modern day operations.

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>>28487407
>>28487484
It's not about killcounts, you need infantry to hold territory which is what really matters. Artillery, armor, airstrikes, etc. can kill 99.99% of the enemy troops but you can't seize and hold the enemies positions without infantry. Everything exists to support infantry in doing so.

>>28487502
It's not as bad as the "why don't we bring back battleships/infantry support guns/anti-tank guns/dive bombers" threads that happen like clockwork.

>>28493440
What regiment?

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>>28487299
>When did the Infantry stop mattering?
moshi moshi baito san

>>28487419
>Tanks have never topped infantry. In fact, they're now pretty much useless.
you bith are morons. Infantry and tanks operate together

>>28493199
>With nuclear weapons large conventional militaries are fucking useless.

Not all countries have nukes anon.

>>28494137

Then they're behind the times.

Even North Korea has the H bomb

>>28493138
>PG-7VM rocket at most
>doesn't scratch an abrams
WOOOOOOW

>>28493199
you need to get some OPPENheIMER dropped on your head
>the nuclear apocalypse
>being a thing
both sides fear mongered hard to keep nuclear war from happening because it would fucking suck (mass death on a scale we've never seen, infrastructure and clay ruined for decades- negating the point of war), but if you honestly think the affected nations would cease to exist or have large surviving conventional forces...

if russia wanted NATO clay in europe, irradiating it, destroying most of the infrastructure and in return dealing with the aftermath of nuclear strikes on your capital and industrial bases doesn't make much sense. IE the nuclear deterrent.

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>>28494179
>PG-7VM
>when we cant even see the rocket.

>>28494212

That incident got a lot of coverage.

I know what I'm talking about.

>>28493199
>what is escalation of force / threshold for 500 Alex

>>28493283
you would have to stop moving to fire the laser. lasers need shitloads of energy to run because they are so inefficient. some thing around 20%

>>28490342
IRL hax when

>>28494233
Then you clearly dont know.

It's a PG-7VS

>>28494261

Never, it would be too expensive because it is a one use weapon. A drone can't keep flying after running into something.

>>28488482
Pretty much. Also don't forget now with the modern proliferation of ATGMs and other anti-tank memes, poorly armored IFVs are a thing of the past.

>>28487502
Better than the dipshits who think the MGS and any other wheeled infantry support vehicle is a 'tank destroyer' and who think not being able to take a direct hit from a Russian MBT makes a vehicle useless.

>>28494335
>poorly armored IFVs are a thing of the past.

Someone tell the Americans...

>>28494371

All I want the stryker to do is survive hits from the RPG-7

Thay's all I ask and it can't do that.

>>28488426
You are missing the point. The point of war is to seize and hold ground. All military actions are designed to allow one of those things to happen.
Therefore military forces are designed around the concept of seizing and holding ground. When it come to land based warfare that is the role of the infantry. We rock up and take someone ground and he tried to stop us.
All other elements in a military force aid in that result. Tanks provided mobile heavy support, cavalry provides a sceen and long range ISR capability. Artillery provides the ability to kill and demoralise large numbers of enemy forces. Air support privide pinpoint ground to air fires. Air superiority fighters allow that air support to function. Ordanance and logisitcs groups allow all those forces to do the job as well.
But then end result will always be an infantry man, walking that ground, digging in and holding it. He may not be able to do any of those things without the tanks and the cav and artillery and the logistics and the air support and the navy to secure a beach head but in the end it is the infantry that rocks up and performs that key element of ground based warfare.

>>28494406
>The point of war is to seize and hold ground.

HA

>>28494414
Prove me wrong?

>>28494406
What an idiot.

>>28494441
Still not hearing proof there buddy.

>>28487595
>People die in every war
yeah i think that's the main criticism

>>28494444
Do you know any history? The concept of winning a war by occupying land is false. You have to kill or subdue the enemy in order to win, not sit on their land until an imaginary timer finishes counting. Look at Afghanistan. Occupation and war with foreigners for the past 4000+ years and still nobody has conquered the country.

>>28494414
let me guess, some college freshman tier opinion about the evil military industrial complex and muh contracts?

or are you the "just use nukes" guy or has he already caught the bus to middleschool.

>>28494444
the thing about it is my FUKKINQUADS having friend is that most everything currently and in the last ~30 years has been police action tier against irregular forces after the totally awesome week of conventional war before a US led NATO coalition finishes wiping the floor with latest and greatest russian export tech having tinpot dictator.

We're stuck taking care of the lingering problems of the shitty job the european powers had dismantling thier empires in the interwar years.

best case scenario is that ISIS establishes some semblance of a real state and attacks israel, then a NATO coalition comes in a steamrolls them and us goy give the clay to our favorite 5th dimensional hypercube. Israel can do no wrong because muh 6 gorrilion, so when they solve the problem of "the middle east" the only way that has ever worked (besides genocide) by ejecting every cameljockey out of their new borders and resettling the region we'll have a nonnuclear/nondictator based "peace".

>>28494480
because afghanistan has always been a massive shithole riding the daggers edge of "is the clay and resources worth killing/expelling all these afghans" It's an arid desert with mountains. It's like asking why african states don't fight over the vast tracts of saharan desert along their arbitrarily defined post colonial borders

>>28488482
Cavalry sure as shit isn't obsolete when you are in 3rd world shitholes with terrible roads.

>>28494500
Afghanistan is where a lot of opium comes from, and thus a lot of money goes into. As for Africa, African states are in constant war because they got gold and diamonds, and that shit's for real. Not with each other because each state is a combination of opposing groups, and thus you see only (technically) civil war. So yeah where's your rebuttal? All I got was an uninformed opinion on a country they know nothing about.

>>28494438

How many french boots are there on the ground in Syria?

>Daddy D.A. says, "I'm a lifer, Joker. Hell, I love this damned Marine Corps an' shit. But Khe Sanh was never a battle: it's been a publicity stunt. And green Marines are not elite troops; we're movie stars. The Marines at Khe Sanh were just show business for Time magazine. We're straight men, feeding lines to the gooks. The brass has demoted us to being live bait for supporting arms. We're nothing more than glorified forward observers, recon for an avalanche of bombs and shells. Guns have made war less than a gentleman's sport. Modern weapons are taking all of the fun out of killing. We might as well just prop up some wooden Marines like duck decoys and dee-dee back to the World and get pogue jobs and make lots of money.

Another thing Vietnam ruined.

>>28494587
>real nations caring about opium besides destroying it
the war on drugs isn't actually a war anon
>gold and diamonds
>sahara desert
reading comprehension isn't your strong suit; I'm specifically paralleling the cold mountainous wasteland of afghanistan to the parts of africa africans don't fight over.
>bu...bu...bu...muh unconquerable afghan people
afghanistan all three anglo-afghan wars and the british empire still left. Not because they couldn't brutally suppress rebellions like in all thier other foreign colonies but because they quickly realized building a puppet state to harness the "wealth" of the region requires the region to have wealth.

>>28494796
Opium is a valuable resource. It's Afghanistan's entire economy. Are you really telling me that a nation's economy and their military power aren't intertwined? Like I said before, pure naivete.

Okay, Saharan desert doesn't have much going for it, I was referring to other African countries. And Afghanistan is not all wasteland. Are you devaluing the importance of land? You might very well be undermining your own argument if you head further in that direction.

The first and second wars were to curb both political power within Afghanistan and political power from being exerted onto Afghanistan by other foreign powers, primarily Russia. The brits gained land and joined it with colonial India, but it was costly. The third war was a failure, mind you. The whole point of all three wars was to in fact suppress rebellions by Afghani nationals. So if that's not the case, then tell me why you think the British invaded Afghanistan in the first place?

>>28494796
Well since you won't let go of your false conceptions of you think war is, there's no point in continuing arguing. All I'm trying to say is, you don't declare war on a land, you declare war on a group of people (or emus), and conditions for victory is getting that group of people to either submit or die off, depending on what the objective of the war is. If you can't accept this concept then whatever I'm done with this either way. Just don't go around being the true authority on "what war is", because that's Sun Tzu and he's long dead.

>>28493170

I've seen this but I don't get whats going on.

The tank looks fine?

It looks like a guy threw a Molotov cocktail at it.

>>28495384

>Engine is on fire
>TANK IS FINE!

Americans are actually that stupid.

>>28488936
>Meanwhile TOW 2B [top attack, standoff, twin-EFP with counter-APS system and boosted aerodynamics] is rated effective against all existing and near-future active protection systems. 'Merica.

Holy fuck, you literally had a quote on hand for this post.

Go away you shill.

>>28495423
>Molotov can kill tank

Lesser's are actually that stupid.

>>28495455
I do it for free, fuccboi.

My country pays me in freedom and burgers.

>>28495483

So how do Americans explain away the actual man running up on the tank and shooting each of the crew-members in the head in >>28493170?

>>28495510
>So how do Americans explain away the actual man running up on the tank and shooting each of the crew-members in the head in

I missed that, did they hide it behind the 80's tier fake explosion in the video?

Seriously though, i have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

>>28487794
The USMC should be restructured into something more akin to the UK's Royal Marines. More elite, higher standards, and smaller status and heavily focus on MEUs. Everyone's first enlistment or 1/2 of first enlistment feed them into a MEU's BLT then allow LAT moves.

>>28487382
The u.s. army has been using m4 carbines as a standard since the mid 2000s. By 2012, even basic training and national guard infantry units were fully m4 carbines. The marines are slower in this regard due to retarded leadership thinking that the m4 was an extension of the pistol

>>28487794
There is literally nothing wrong with redundancy in wartime.

>>28494480
>The concept of winning a war by occupying land is false. You have to kill or subdue the enemy in order to win
if the enemy can operate on the ground to the point that it stops you achieving objectives then the ground has not been seized. You're misunderstanding the meaning of holding territory.

>>28495510
they were iraqi army.. and they really really suck at theyre job

>>28490676
kek

>>28496147

Considering Iraq is still a nation, they're doing better than most Middle Eastern armies.

>>28487335

>you cant conduct raids with drones

Not yet you can't

>>28495588

There are many things wrong with redundancy from a civilian perspective.

I give zero fucks about soldiers dying, I give MANY fucks about my tax dollars being wasted on things that already exist.

Not my fault I actually went to college and got a job, people who willingly give themselves up to the government for employment deserve to die.

>>28496333
Lets disregard the edge...

>I give zero fucks about soldiers dying, I give MANY fucks about my tax dollars being wasted on things that already exist.

Oh, so the insurance payouts and whatnot, not to mention if they get maimed and thus the health coverage...you are cool with that, yet you are not cool with redundancy to prevent this?

>Not my fault I actually went to college and got a job

Literally the number one reason people join the military.

> people who willingly give themselves up to the government for employment deserve to die.

Why?

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>>28487327

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>>28496333
>im14andthisisdeap

>>28496355
Not that guy, but as someone on benefits right now, I can honestly tell you that the government doesn't pay my amputeed ass nearly as much as they would be paying another soldier every month.

>>28487327
I would like you to have a talk with the 'Merkgunner' guy about his adventures in the summer of 2014 and ask him if tanks are irrelevant.

>>28496470

Merkgunner is dead

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>people ITT implying the M16 isn't a carbine
Pic related, an M16A1 build next to two other carbines.

>>28488076
Are you Canadian?

>>28488411
Nice OICW you got there.

>>28489165
Overpriced German shit with untreated or lined barrels, There are plenty of domestic piston AR-15's to choose from that can take a variety of magazines including P-mag

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>>28496565

But none of them are the M27

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>>28496515

>>28495566
12 months basic training FUCK YEAH

...no...in real life, the Defeat of Spartans, Knights and Samurai even before gun powder, proved that anybody given a few months of training can still take out a life long warrior class.

Royal Marines die when shot by bullets just a much as a Territorial Army volunteer. This isn't like a video game where your education or workout of a muscle group gives you permanent gains to your stats.

>>28493603
>you need infantry to hold territory which is what really matters

And a war is over when you take the enemy capital too right?

>>28496586
Dam son...I mean Mickel son.

>>28496487
I talked to him few hours ago in the crappy IDF thread.
He's a nice guy all 'n' all.

>>28496631
What, should they just bomb the capital? Worked in Vietnam, didn't it?

>>28496623
An excellent modern example of this would be during Operation "Just Cause", when a Navy SEAL platoon got shot to hell by some Panamanian air port guards.

>>28496333
>Not my fault I actually went to college
Spelled Middle School wrong.

>>28487299
when they started using every mos as infantry

>>28497302

This.

When cooks start having more combat experience because insurgents only attack convoys, being Infantry starts to matter less,

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>>28487794

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>>28496333
>edgy

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>>28496586

417 is superior in every way.

>>28501432

It IS a 417 in that the M27 is just a rebranded 416.

>>28487419
>it's almost kinda funny how many civilians the American drones have killed and still people willingly support the US government.

And just how many civilians have US drones killed you meme faggot?

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I'm an infantryman. If I did not matter, I wouldn't be utilized every second of every day. Infantrymen are in high demand.

>>28487961
Infantry training is better at your unit. OSUT serves it's purpose

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>>28493081
Look at this shit

I'm so sick of the "le obama just says 'kill that guy' and psychopathic evil droners of babies immediately start firing all the missiles"

There's problems with drones but when the median time spent on going through the process of gathering intel and approving a kill is over 5 years, spare me your bullshit.

>>28488936
>It's shown that shitty Russian missiles are vulnerable to newest Russian defences.
The newest Russian defences are the ones on their T-14 you dumbass, which were IDK, thousands of miles away and in testing.
>>28488936
>Meanwhile TOW 2B [top attack, standoff, twin-EFP with counter-APS system and boosted aerodynamics] is rated effective against all existing and near-future active protection systems. 'Merica.
BS. it sets off its EFP warhead barely 3 m from the top of the tank and comes in horizontally- meaning its well within engagement zone of most APS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IjAPVTtYDE

>>28505492
>Government kill list conspiracy
>Posting government provided material to prove there isn't one
Not him, but that's retarded

>>28505736
>posting classified documents leaked by a whistleblower to try and show how bad drones are
SPARE ME YOUR BULLSHIT

>>28487299

When proxy soldiers became more prevalent.

>>28495566
>remove marines
>keep recon marines

I like it

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>>28496331
Soon...

>>28506258
>stores 20 rounds and has he range of 5 city blocks in a straight line

>>28506267
Not so soon...

Airplanes

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>>28487299
>When did the Infantry stop mattering?

Infantry will stop mattering only after the first T-888 marches off the assembly line.

>>28506267
>>28506443

I don't know, give them a docking feature and a bunch of charging stations and they can be like big murderous roobas.

>>28503177
correct but the 417 is chambered in 7.62

>>28487299
When we decided it was acceptable to pay for the same real estate more than once.

>>28487966
You cant put a collapsable stock on a rifle buffer. ARs are a retardedly bulky system for how light they are.

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>>28506935
I have a collapable stock on my rifle.

>>28506935
i've but a collapsable stock from an m4 on my m16 on deployment

>>28506935
>>28507092
>rifle buffer

I didn't see that part. I think you might be able to if you tweak it with the springs, but I have a carbine buffer tube on mine.

>>28487380
Good riddance if you ask me. When war is dead and gone for good, we can finally get some real progress going.

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>>28496487
Now where did you get that idea?

>>28495510

>explain away the actual man running up on the tank and shooting each of the crew-members in the head

Monkey-model crew

That was an Iraqi tank crewed by iraqis. That should be all you need to know.

Also the fact that the tank didnt have any infantry around it helps prove the idea of this thread that infantry are far from worthless.

Hell, even just another tank to hose with co-ax would have helped stop that.

Long story short, brown people suck ass at traditional warfare but are inexplicably good at insurgencies.

>>28507219
I seriously did not see that.

time?

>>28507219
Read lawerance of arabias book. Gives good insight as to why there is such difference in performance in arab insurgencies compared to traditional warfare. Hes part of the reason they are good at the in the first place.

Infantry is irrelevant when actually holding ground is. You can destroy infrastructure just fine from the skies. War IS economics now. Occupation is outdated more so than infantry.