[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y ] [Search | Home]
4Archive logo
Has there ever been a more overrated state...
If images are not shown try to refresh the page. If you like this website, please disable any AdBlock software!

You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons

Thread replies: 45
Thread images: 13
File: spartans2.jpg (42 KB, 564x376) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
spartans2.jpg
42 KB, 564x376
Has there ever been a more overrated state from a military perspective?
>>
File: adolf-hitler1.jpg (101 KB, 730x493) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
adolf-hitler1.jpg
101 KB, 730x493
>>28449916
Just one
>>
File: 1444855236384.gif (981 KB, 1064x589) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1444855236384.gif
981 KB, 1064x589
>>28449916
"Fight honorably until you die" tactics were duplicated by Imperial Japan and didn't work for them either. Smart combatants know when to retreat and regroup.
>>
>>28449928

kek
>>
>>28449916
Russia
>>
>>28450014
Spartan tactics were not "fight honorably until you die"
They were a successful military state for a reason, in fact their version of a leadership candidacy training was some high speed low drag guerrilla/espionage type shit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypteia
>>
File: 40529.jpg (22 KB, 610x203) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
40529.jpg
22 KB, 610x203
>>28451212
And they got heir shit push by fucking slaves a number of times.spartans were literalls faggots who needs 15 slaves each to sustain their "warriors" way of life.
>>
>>28451262
Getting fucked by helot rebellions was at a point in time where they were so outstretched and they were getting economically destroyed by their inheritance and equality policies.

Spartans were actually the closest any nation has ever come to being completely Marxist, aside from slaves and helots obviously. They didn't believe in a true currency and usually bartered with bars of iron as a medium of exchange, Spartan men and women all inherited an equal amount of land which ended up causing a lot of land ownership being handled by women, and the parcels of land getting fucking tiny. This contributed to Spartans getting economically fucked in the long run.

When the Spartans "allied" with the Persians and were put in charge of maintaining the peace in Greece, they used every single opportunity to be gigantic bullies to all of their neighbors over past grievances. While their military was outstretched and with Spartan garrisons in many Greek cities, they had very little at home to protect themselves from Helot uprisings.

This was towards the end of the ancient Sparta that we know, before that they were a very successful military force.
>>
>>28451262
Also all Greeks at the time were literal faggots.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes
>>
>>28449916
not really, spartans were just some hillbilly greeks whom the athenians hyped up

there were better military societies in ancient greece than spartans, that doesn't say much though since the greeks did war as if they were playing a football match
>>
>>28451361
I've also read about ritualized warfare between city states, but somehow I doubt we are getting the whole truth from the histories.
>>
>>28449916
The Romans were overrated, they just had numbers when tactics failed.
>>
>>28451632
>They just had numbers
How often did they outnumber people in pitched battles?
How man countries did they subsume with vast hosts?
Pretty sure you're talking bollocks matey-boy.
>>
>>28450014
Japan's problem wasn't that they "copied" Sparta.

Their problem was that they followed an entirely made up code. Bushido is fictional as fuck.
>>
File: 1443730362403.jpg (157 KB, 638x479) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1443730362403.jpg
157 KB, 638x479
>>28451670
well the Romans had quite a large part to do with the creation of the term "Pyrrhic victory", Hannibal only outnumbered Roman forces at the battle of Lake Trasimene and at Zama. these are however before the Marian reforms, but that didn't save the legions at Teutoberg against a numerically weaker and worse equipped foe. pre Marian tactics were to make the enemy slowly feel overwhelmed by the waves of green Hastati they would fight in the front rank, then the better skilled and armed Principes before being totally demoralised by the elite Triarii at the back, kinda like a boss rush for every time you engage with a Roman column, the early tactics have been likend to a meat grinder by historians, where the rear would force the greener soldiers forward before cleaning up the exhausted and demoralised stragglers.
>>
>>28450014
Retreat and regroup was an entirely different thing when speaking phalanx to rifle
>>
>>28451632
The roman state is what made the roman legions what they were. Romans were definetively not overrated.
>>
File: 1406007856572.jpg (22 KB, 349x500) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1406007856572.jpg
22 KB, 349x500
>>28450014
Human wave tactics are simply a bad idea since the gun was invented. Japan still didn't understand that.
>>
>>28449916
They did manage to beat Athens, despite Athens controlling the SLOCs in the Pelopponesian War. They really were not overrated,
>>
>>28452674
Why the fuck is there a goblin?
>>
>>28452994
The entire banzai charge business did actually work.
Its just that it only worked in China against badly trained, badly equipped and badly motivated conscripts.
Didn't work so well against a bunch of guys with semi-automatics, SMG's, automatic rifles, itchy trigger things and gigantic adamantium balls.
>>
>>28451632
To be honest, Roman operational and strategic resiliency was without parallel in its time. Nobody could equip, train, feed, and move a full-time military force quite like the Romans.
>>
>>28453042
Roads.
>>
>>28453034
>not being familiar of the Roman invasion of the Goblin mountain cities in the alps
>>
>>28453056
That's a part of it, sure. Show me a contemporary state that was able to field 750 000 soldiers.
>>
>>28453365
I'm with you here, I think the Roman army isn't overrated because logistically it was so good

Alexander the Great's army years before was similar, his father had reformed the army to become logistically the most superior, and Alex used that to rape thousands of Persians miles away from home, Rome would do so a few hundred years later

tl:dr, Rome's forces did get rekt a few times yeah, but they had so many successes due to their logistics
>>
File: image.jpg (65 KB, 500x667) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
image.jpg
65 KB, 500x667
>>28449928
>every military uniform thread
>ss uniform is da best
>>
>>28453365
Imperial China
>>
>>28451326
>Spartans were actually the closest any nation has ever come to being completely Marxist, aside from slaves and helots obviously.
dude, there were a vast number more slaves and helots and no it was not an equal society by any means- you have to literally view Spartan society through a straw to get that impression and if you do that then you'd also go and say Jamestown was a marxist society because so much was divided equally when they were more worried about getting slaughtered by natives or disease.
>>
>>28457522
>slaves and helots

Those weren't really Spartan so much as property of Sparta.
>>
>>28451336
The Spartans would take a boy soldier and rear him literally. They would fuck their prodigies, and then have to go through sexual re-education later
>>
File: USA-flag.gif (36 KB, 1181x788) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
USA-flag.gif
36 KB, 1181x788
>>
>>28451789
>mfw bushido has thousands of years and tens of thousands of documents and stories behind it
>>
>>28457522
Read a book, please.
The reason spartans never adopted an official coinage is because they strived for equality among spartans. Obviously they werent EXACT equals in practice because thats literally impossible in an oligarchy.

A good book for people unfamiliar with that would be From Democrats to Kings, please read it as it does a good job explaining things carefully just for you.
>>
>>28457543
Fucking young prodigies was common practice in Greek society at the time.
>>
File: rers.jpg (58 KB, 411x550) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
rers.jpg
58 KB, 411x550
>>28458455
>mfw a Jap grunt's bushido had just about as much to do with traditional notions of bushido as Naziism had to do with the actual Indo-Aryans
>>
>>28453042
>To be honest, Roman operational and strategic resiliency was without parallel in its time. Nobody could equip, train, feed, and move a full-time military force quite like the Romans.
Nobody could match their logistics and ability to field huge armies until Napoleon. Think about that.
>>
File: 26 Hoplite duel.jpg (84 KB, 1073x522) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
26 Hoplite duel.jpg
84 KB, 1073x522
>>28457543
/flips through Xenophon's Constitution of the Lakedemonians

Funny, he says they expressly forbade the practice.

>>28459460
If you're referring to the institution of the erastes and the eromenos, it seems to have been confined to rich urban elites and never involved underage boys. It also involved a lot more than sex -- which itself was sticking your dick between the other guy's greased thighs. Ritualized bisexuality in a sexually segregated society, more or less.

There is so much literal and historically illiterate faggotry in this thread I don't even know where to begin. All I can do is encourage you kids to read the actual source material.
>>
File: IMG_8549.jpg (318 KB, 1679x1049) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
IMG_8549.jpg
318 KB, 1679x1049
>>28449916
not much of a state, more of a type of unit:

Cossacks
>only good for putting down peasant revolts
>too wild to control in set piece battles
>too wild to trust them and leave them alone
>>
>>28451632
Here's a good one:
A military is not 'combat tactics'
Logistics are as imperative to a military as the soldiers fighting ability
>>
>>28459561
eh, I guess they're technically a nation, so fuck it, counts
>>
>>28459496
>Phil "The Jews are the reason I'm unemployed" Ossiferz Stone
Thrown right out the window
>>
>>28459614
>The Jews are the reason I'm unemployed
I beg your pardon; that sounds like libel from an angry faggot. I used to post Jew pussy all the time to drive the /new/fags away, back when we were unmoderated. My kosher /k/redentials are unmatched.
>>
>>28459631
This thread is the first time I've ever seen you keep yourself from shitposting and actually respond with any kind of knowledge, so good job I guess you're improving.
>>
>>28459647
Fuck off, Phil's normally very reserved here.
Thread replies: 45
Thread images: 13
Thread DB ID: 371554



[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the shown content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows their content, archived. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content, then use the post's [Report] link! If a post is not removed within 24h contact me at wtabusse@gmail.com with the post's information.