>41p enacted in 180 days from January 4th, 2015 What NFA

>>28432665
my girlfriend, because like my other NFA things, they don't exist

>>28432665
tl;dr?

CLEO sign off is gone. Neat

definitely one of the lowers i have laying around

a 9mm can

another 22 can

and just when the SC hybrid came out

What does this mean for actual businesses who are engaged in the sale or manufacture of NFA items? Does the mean every single thing they produce needs a Chief LEO sign off?

but to answer the question, none because I don't have a trust.

>>28432685
Transfer requirements for NFA trusts have changed.

File: dissaproval.jpg (7KB, 197x255px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 197x255px

>>28432665

>registering firearms

>>28432782
>What does this mean for actual businesses who are engaged in the sale or manufacture of NFA items? Does the mean every single thing they produce needs a Chief LEO sign off?
No. This only applies to form 4 or form 1 NFA items.

>>28432782
>>28432816
The document states that CLEO's no longer need to sign off anytging, instead they will recieve a notification stating you have purchased an NFA item.

so do i have to get my beneficiaries to sign paperwork as well?

>>28432782
>link in OP say's "must forward fingerprints and appropriate forms to CLEO...and CLEO signature is no longer needed."

Am I reading this wrong or does it simply say "Get fingerprints for all trustees and fill out forms, send to ATF+CLEO, but you get your NFA item regardless of CLEO approval"

Cause if it's a matter of everybody gets NFA items as long as they submit fingerprints, this is pretty bitchin' for commie counties.

>>28432865
This is how I've interpreted it thus far.

>>28432886
Excellent. IDGAF about submitting fingerprints. Does this apply to normal applications as well? As in non-trusts no longer need CLEO signatures? If so I'll be rockin' a new suppressor in about 8-12 months.

>>28433151
I haven't read that far into it.

File: ron pual habbeding.gif (973KB, 312x213px) Image search: [Google]

973KB, 312x213px

CLEOs

BTFO
T
F
O

>>28432719
>>28432837
>>28432865

For trusts.

41p is not directed to the individual capacity in any way.

Still, could have been a whole lot worse.

File: CLEO Commies BTFO.png (293KB, 1369x981px) Image search: [Google]

293KB, 1369x981px

>>28433330
Then why does this state "would-be applicants intended to create trust entities solely for the purpose of avoiding the CLEO certification process will now save the cost of the creation of that trust"?

>>28433330
>This final rule eliminates the current requirement that all individual applicants obtain a
certification from the CLEO for the locality. Instead, under the final rule, applicants seeking to (make or receive an NF A firearm are required to notify their local CLEO before they submit the ATF application to make or receive an NFA firearm

Hm

>>28433371
Oh.

Well shit, time for NFA items then.

180 days, or is this immediate?

File: Thanks Obama.png (216KB, 1324x742px) Image search: [Google]

216KB, 1324x742px

>>28433393
Not sure but further proof it applies to individuals.


Soooo...essentially everybody has to submit fingerprints, but CLEO's cant say fuck you and deny your application anymore. Th...tha...thanks Obama?!?

Commiefornia rage when?!

>>28433393
>180 days, or is this immediate?
180 days from the time of publication
>publication on 1.4.15

File: 1451749655667.jpg (28KB, 540x540px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 540x540px

>>28433422
Fan-fucking-tastic.

Did Obama just do us all a.... favor? What planet am I on right now?

>>28433457
>6 months from now California gets full auto guns without CLEO signatures.
>In fact, the CLEO's get notified but can't do shit.

I came.

>>28433422
>have trust
>no biometrics
>no need for cleos anyways
there is no thanks

>>28433484
Did you not read it. Trusts have to submit fingerprints now. As in individual, I no longer need to spend money on a trust, just apply, submit fingerprints and notifications, and get my NFA item anyways. I'm sorry you wasted your money, but in 6 months individual applications and trusts will require the same information.

>>28432665

If I have been diagnosed with ADHD, will 41p fuck me over? What is considered to be mental illness?

>>28432665
I really need to get a suppressor for my storm.

>>28433505
Has a judge ruled you incompetent to stand trial or committed you to a mental institution involuntarily? If no, no. If yes, you can't own a gun anyway and havn't been able to for years.

>>28433513

Oh ok good. Why reiterate it if its already law?

File: image.jpg (79KB, 1332x323px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 1332x323px

Sounds like once you get approved you'll be good for two years. Fingerprint wise

>>28432665
So in ~18 months when I turn 21 I want to buy a handgun and a suppressor. How if at all will this affect me?

>>28433528
Because he asked.

>>28433502
ya, i did. he didnt do you a favor. last week all i needed was trust off quicken will maker, no finger prints and no cleo. you never HAD to have a trust, that was a way around cloe and biometrics.

>Trusts have to submit fingerprints now
THATS THE FUCKING PROBLEM DUMBASS

>>28433532
Hey zasta I saw a lanchester partskit for $599. Worth it?

>>28433544
It won't because you don't have a trust.

you'll fill out Form 4 as an individual and wait like everyone else

>>28433545

No i mean why would the ATF add a redundant component to 41p if this mental illness thing was already law?

>>28433371
I doubt Obama actually did this. I bet you 5 bucks a staffer slipped that in there somehow.

>>28433558
Was it one of these?
http://www.ima-usa.com/british-lanchester-display-smg-wwii-desert-rat-issue.html

>>28433553
So you are butthurt because you paid a lawyer to set up a trust but now you have to submit fingerprints and anybody can get NFA approval without a trust, making your trust a waste of money.

I'm happy because I no longer need to pay for a trust nor get my CLEO signature. This literally saves me money AND makes it easier to get NFA items. But given your response I'd say you are either a "muh database" wackjob, criminal, or super butthurt trustee angry that he spent too much on a trust.

>>28433569
They didn't. They only require reporting of those ruled insane or involuntarily committed to the feds. It doesn't magically add anybody to that list, only requires the states to document and report those on said list.

>>28433571
Nope. Face it. He helped us out here. Even if he didn't know it, he literally just did what /k/ asked to be done for years.

I already have a trust ready to go, just needs property transferred to it and notary signature. Would it be best to go on a nfa spending spree via the trust now? I intend to manufacture a SBR and SBS and purchase some suppressors.

Trusts are still required to lend NFA items to friends or to pass them down to the next generation (without risk of individual transfer being banned in the future), so they're still useful...

>>28433668
I mean...if you already spent money on the trust...

>>28433655
I dont think so, it was at a local gunshop and looked a lot less fresh than that. Stock did have that rune on it so im not so sure.

Ill check it out this weekend when I head back to store.

>>28433666
how dense are you? my trust is something i created off a (torrent) quicken will maker. you think i made that up? Im pissed because, like i said, i now have to submit biometrics to own a non gun like a can or a different version of a gun i already own.

> I no longer need to pay for a trust nor get my CLEO signature.
that was always an option you pleb

File: panic-button[1].jpg (381KB, 2400x1800px) Image search: [Google]

381KB, 2400x1800px

>Hearing protection act pending
>This pending
>Torn between blowing a grand on a suppressor while it's easymode or waiting

>>28433690
Actually, a provision in this made it so whomever receives an NFA item through a will or something won't be considered "in possession" of it. They can then transfer it or file the paperwork for ownership themselves. I read that in here too but I'll have too look back in the document again. So, no...they made that obsolete. There may be a provision requiring a dealer or LEO to keep it until transferred or ownership is approved. Not sure.

>>28433734
Not without paying a minimum of $250 for something like a Silencerco trust.

Aso,
>trusting a legal document you wrote yourself
You'll go far in life my friend. Regardless, it's now just as easy for me to get non-trust NFA items as you. Suck my dick.

>>28432665
So if I have a family member with a trust that has some suppressors on it, and I get him to add me to his trust. After this shit passes it will be business the same as it is now correct?

What about if I DONT get added within the 180 days, but tries to add me a year from now?

>>28433755
the hearing protection act will almost certainly not pass and im fairly certain these executive orders can be challenged, and if so, it will be shortly.

File: p220_osprey.jpg (3MB, 5184x3456px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 5184x3456px

>>28433770
you dont need a Silencerco brand trust to own a Silencerco

>You'll go far in life my friend.
i know. the best thing you can do is trust your self

>>28433834
I could have sworn they included the hearing protection act into that omnibus bill that's been rolling around. Is that true?

>>28433852
im not really sure but all the legalfags on /k/ seem to think its not likely to pass

>>28433725
If you're building a semi the Ima dummy gun and semi parts from Indianapolis Ordnance should be all you'd need

>>28433852
I think it was something to do with defunding the ATF from classifying 5.45 as AP, but I can't find any sources about it.

>>28433943
That one's already been done.
Really though, I thought the hearing protection act was added as a rider to the defense spending bill

>>28433755
if the HPA goes threough you get a refund on the tax stamp anyway

>>28433985
>That one's already been done.
Source?

>>28433985
No that was giving CMP 1911s

>>28433806
Seconded. And what is a trust and how do I become one.

>>28432665
Does benton/franklin county in WA have any issues with suppressors?

>>28432665
>Persons
>Wording includes trusts.
Is this the BATFE trying to pre-emptively close the gap that would allow trusts to register new machine guns, is Hollis v Lynch is successful?

>>28435358
>And what is a trust and how do I become one.
You obviously have no need for a trust.

>>28435558
>need
Well, yeah. It's a 'want' not a 'need'.

>>28432865
Get fingerprints and photos for ALL trustees, and notify CLEO for EVERY purchase.

>>28435470
Nope, no issues. Have you been to ranch and home? They have tons of suppressors sitting in jail waiting for approval.

>>28433371
>Obama made NFA items easier to get for people with shitty LEOs
>faster NICS checks
>24/7 NICS checks

>no changes for private sales

Is this bizarro Obama?

>>28435558
You sound like a cunt.

So no one new should try to obtain any NFA items or attempt to learn about the laws regarding such?

Is the NFA a special club to you? That cuckstamp a fancy members only jacket?

More demand for NFA and better educated gun owners can only help our cause.

And with luck cuckstamps will go the way of the members only jacket. And that will just piss all over your superiority parade.

>>28435620
I do most of my transfers through them, though I might switch to talos because they're closer.

>>28435725
I know, right? He basically fixed individual NFA, made 24hr drive through gun stores a possibility, and made the libs shut up about "muh background checks" that were already in place.

its probably the only thing he did right all presidency.

>>28435746
>Drive through gun shops.
Muh dick.

>>28435751
>Pull up to window.
>Having a special on hand nuggets.
>Pay for one and some ammo.
>Pull up to next window.
>Receive purchase, free 80% lower thrown in.
>Drive to next window, shoot from your car into range.
>Go home and bitch about how they added on a 10% gratuity, just so their employees could live.

>>28435539
It would seem Hollis is blowing the Fed out right now, O did talk to Lynch as well to start this whole EO thing.

The whole precedent in Hollis is that the machine gun registry should be open, so individual or trust, it wouldn't matter.

File: free birds u.png (69KB, 240x240px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 240x240px

>>28433842
>the best thing you can do is trust your self


Anyway so it seems to me that 41p is just sort of a bullshit cleanup operation. If we can all be really honest with ourselves, NFA trusts are primarily a bullshit workaround to the significantly more bullshit CLEO discretionary power.

>>28432665
2015?

just curious does anyone know if they're hiring more NFA examiners? if so would that shorten nfa times?

>>28437408
>The whole precedent in Hollis is that the machine gun registry should be open, so individual or trust, it wouldn't matter.
Actually it's a mutli pronged attack.

>1
He's going after the Hughes amendment as unconstitutional (on the ground that post dated machine guns are on the register - equal treatment means the registry must be opened).

>2
He's going after the right to file a Form 1 as a trust for a machine gun, as trusts are not included in the definition of a person - this mandate specifically mentions trusts as persons, which may be used to change the terminology and close off the trust loophole.

>3
He's attacking 922(O) as a whole, under the second amendment, using the M16 involved in the Form 1 as the quintessential militia arm.
If the court construes a trust to be a person, the ATF will need to explain why the M16 is not protected under the second amendment as the quintessential militia arm of its time.

File: 1450676306158.jpg (27KB, 401x372px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 401x372px

Obama literally just said on national TV "We're going to hire more people at the ATF to streamline the process for law abiding gun owners to access NFA items"

Fucking WAT?!?!

>>28433666
>making your trust a waste of money.
Having other trustees (like your family or friends) be able to possess NFA items owned by the trust and being able to name legal beneficiaries isn't a waste of money.

Unexpected consequence :wheel and deal collectors get 07s and manufacture their own machine guns and the budget increase for the ATF makes it easier to get paperwork processed and sent out faster than ever, thanks obongo

So is there any point in setting up a trust now? The shop I was going to buy silencers from does it for you for free when you buy a silencer. II guess if I do it in the next 3 months I can avoid the finger print for the first silencer.

>>28435620
Responsible persons are:

1) Persons with the power or authority to direct the management and policies of the trust;

AND,

2) Have the power or authority to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for the trust.

It appears as though responsible persons are those who meet both elements. If an individual does not meet both of these elements, they are not responsible persons. Thus, the 41P requirements would not apply to that individual.

http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/forums/5521-suppressors/14443353-nfalawyers-initial-review-of-41p

>>28437860
eta: the fingerprints and photos wouldn't necessarily apply to trustees depending upon the particulars of the individual trust.

>>28437708
>being able to name legal beneficiaries isn't a waste of money
what is atf form 5

>>28438177
That only work for heirs, right?

If you have extended family / friends that you'd want those to go to then you'd be req'd to have a will. a trust just bypasses the will, and extends it to continue its useful life after the grantor's death.