>>28402532 Only reason they're transitioning to 9 is because of the new environment of "must hire muh female agents" who find themselves unable to handle anything bigger than 9 Any leo you talk to that's been in a few gunfights will tell you to carry the biggest round you can accurately shoot.
>>28402031 The caliber debates have more or less stabilized. The trends you're seeing now are the trends that'll stay for some time. Economies of scale rule out niche calibers gaining any real popularity.
Too many things going against it to ever become a popular round. The main reason being that it's too expensive. Not just the rounds, but the guns themselves. Only Glock has a reasonably priced 10mm gun. Most of the few manufacturers that offer a 10mm gun has their guns priced at numbers approaching $1000 handgun territory.
Another reason is that kind of power in a handgun is full-retard. The only real application for that much power is when you're going hunting in an areas inhabited by large dangerous animals. People that claim they have a 10mm as a carry gun belong on in the same group as the ones that carry a .44 Mag for their day-to-day life.
The funny thing is though that most of the 10mm rounds you find on the shelves are most likely the weaker FBI load which performs similarly to the .40 S&W at which point, why not just get a .40?
I have 500 rounds of .303 british in the safe, that doesnt make it any more common.
few agencies use it, only half the gun stores i go to stock it, the ones that do only have a few manufacturers, only a handful of companies produce it and every day ammo companies churn out 10 times more of just about every other handgun cartridge than 10mm
I like 10mm it has its purpose, but its not common.
It remains a niche round, but plenty of rural types seem to be warming to it as a modern replacement for their old sixguns. You keep hearing about Texans going hog hunting with their 10mm's in thick brush, and whenever I go up to Montana you almost always bump into somebody at the range who's shooting one. They swear with good bullets it'll put anything down except griz.
>>28403408 It happens, but only as a sidearm. I hear it more with .45s just because they are more common. Just something loaded with FMJs to penetrate that thick skull or chestplate in case their rifle is empty and a big hog decides to charge.
>>28403408 We had a /k/ommando here this last year who does drive-by's on hogs with his brother driving the truck. He showed us pics of the resultant carnage. I should have capped them, but I didn't.
There's similar testimony on other boards. Yes, it's Internet lore. But the people I talk to up in Montana -- including one grizzled old sheriff's deputy who also carries it as his duty weapon -- are real enough.
>>28402858 >Not just the rounds, but the guns themselves. Only Glock has a reasonably priced 10mm gun. Most of the few manufacturers that offer a 10mm gun has their guns priced at numbers approaching $1000 handgun territory.
>>28402472 I'm a 9mmfag and I own a 10mm too. I like the 10mm a lot and really don't notice much more felt recoil, probably because I'm not a pussy. If 10mm gets more popular and ammo is as cheap as 9 I'll probably get more guns for it, but as it is I have the 10mm because California doesn't let me have mag capacity, so I'd rather have essentially an auto magnum.
>>28402697 Depends on what you're thinking, if their torso is still human you want see much of a difference. If you are thinking Ghost in the Shell style full prosthetic bodies then you would probably see a move to rounds like 5.7x28mm or possibly smaller. Larger bullets would be even more worthless and shot placement even more important vs a machine than a person.
>>28402532 >>28402692 >>28402980 >>28404304 Even some magnums, anything that doesn't have 900+ ft lbs of energy (such as .357 mag from a 8"-10" revolver barrel, .44 magnum, or .460 Rowland if you want something semi auto) performs about the same.
>>28402697 I'll have my body genetically engineered to generate and conduct massive amounts of electricity, then use my same old guns with special ammo that charges when heated to allow me to rail gun my rounds by charging the barrel massively.
>>28404379 nope bigger round to take out as many of the control boards as possible. if they are smart they would have them spread out over the entire unit as backup and fail-safes, so tiny round might not cause damage to shut down a unit
>>28404802 Shit doesn't have to be that big, if they're smart they could have them grouped closely together so they could efficiently put some kevlar/ceramic/UHMWPE around them. It wouldn't take much to have them almost completely armored against any non AP handgun ammunition or even rifle rounds if you didn't mind a bit of extra weight. If they had the boards more spread out then giving them any type of protection would end up weighing significantly more.
>>28406983 http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/03/jon-wayne-taylor/gun-review-rock-island-armory-gi-standard-fs-1911/ >"The GI made it to round 43 before the first failure to feed. The next failure to feed arrived at round 44. It didn’t get much better after that. Failures happened with every magazine. As far as I could tell, no mag was more or less likely to fail than the others."
http://10mm-firearms.com/10mm-semi-auto-handguns/ria1-broken-ejector/ >"Ejector broke on my RIA1 10mm after 250 rounds."
https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=437173 >" First 100 rounds, failure to fully return to battery approx. 2 rounds per mag. A tap on the mag and the bullet chambered. Called RIA and had them send out a new mag, thinking (hoping) that was the problem. Not so. New mag here and another 150 rounds with the exact same issue."
https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=442649 >"Im pretty confident that the (reverse plug) was broke due to extremely cold temp"
...I'm guessing this is why RIA recommends that ridiculous 500rd break-in period. It's probably just a cover to weed out the ones that slipped through QC and claim that the guns were still being broken in because if it's going to have issues, it's most likely going to be in first several hundred rounds.
>>28408349 Glad to hear you enjoy your gun. Consider yourself one of the lucky ones. Some people prefer that their gun purchase not be a crapshoot even if the manufacturer claims that they'll repair/replace the guns.
The point remains though: Glock is probably the only manufacturer without a decently priced and reliable 10mm handgun.
>>28402913 not common compared to 9mm, but in the grand scheme of things 10 mm isn't all that rare. most ammo manufacturers make some load for it, several pistol manufacturers have 10 mm pistols in their regular product line. that's more than can be said about most pistol cartridges.
>>28402031 Yeah when we have Xbox huge handguns and we standardized nuclear use for every day commercial use and we go back to the 1950's anerican culture and beat war with China because "lol resource wars" and have the ability to freeze time so we can pick our noses then yeah sure but other than that fuck no
>>28410108 Are you allowed open carry? Having those exposed mags hanging on your belt makes me wonder. My problem with concealed carry is not the gun it's trying to keep my extra mags from printing. I'm been called out by folks who see the mags and not the gun. So I carry only one spare in a low profile carrier.
How fast is 10mm and can lead bullets be safely fired in glock brand glocknades or other modern 10mm? I reload 45 semi wad cutters for my many 1911s as I am a fud, but I was under the impression glock brand using its hexagonal or octagonal rifling could not safely shoot lead for fear of lead build up and glockplosion.
>>28412366 While this is DoubleTap (underpowered and gas checked) that Hickok is using, leading is generally not a huge issue with hardcast. >He also swaps barrels to a Lone Wolf, because he was having accuracy issues
I wouldn't shoot hundreds of rounds without checking and/or cleaning though. Underwood makes great ammo, I shoot it regularly. (not the HC though, at least not regularly anyway)
No, because it has more recoil than 9mm without an verifiable increase in terminal performance. 9x19mm, .40 s&w, .45 acp, and 10mm all have nearly identical stopping power. You need to go all the way up to .357 magnum in order to get a verifiable increase in terminal performance.
>>28408544 I use it as an HD gun. I have a Windicator as a backup because I don't care about the nogunz lore on /k/. I've had no issues with either. >>28408576 The Witness is also good. I don't own one, but I've got a buddy with a 9mm, it's a nice gat.
>>28402472 10mm outperforms 9mm, and by quite a margin, the problem is that this "excessive performance" makes it a dangerous round in a self defense situation - it can be too much for casual shooters, and lethal overpenetration is a thing.
But imho 10mm should be adopted as the standard pistol/smg round for military and special operations use. Especially in Europe where generally walls aren't made of cardboard, and I've read that third world/afghan mud huts are extremely resilient to penetration.
>>28406978 I live about and hour and a half from Salmon, ID where Buffalo Bore is made, and get it for a pretty good discount for my G20. Lovely stuff, great for bears and moose if you get on their bad side.
Does anyone has any news on the ability of the S&W 10mm revolver to handle full power loads? I mean, I was assuming it could because they generally make good stuff, I just didn't want to kaboom one if I got it. Also >being able to shoot 10mm and .40 out of the same gun without switching barrels I like the general idea
>>28418973 I was talking about the 610, thank you for the answer, that's good info to know.
As for your follow up question, the best I can say is the same reason I said before, > being able to shoot 10mm and .40 out of the same gun without switching barrels
I figured cheap .40 was easier to come by than cheap .38 or .44 special (in non-gunstores). And sometimes I like being a special snowflake. And in my area ( the south east) the power afforded by large magnums generally passes a point of diminishing returns beyond hot .357, when it comes to handgun hunting or trail defense.
>>28425555 >Some idiot says 10mm is not better than 9mm and he has to prove it isn't? Because even if I go back and post all the testing that I looked at, there's nothing keeping him from saying that it's just the weak shit like he already has. Therefore I won't waste my time.
>>28425633 Other than the ones I marked with a *, I'm not particularly impressed. I was wrong about there being only a .1" difference though, apparently it's a .15" difference for most and a .19"-.22" Precision cartridge/Precision one loads listed that I was rather impressed by, though I could probably find some 9mm specialty 9mm loads that perform a lot closer than the Gold Dots and Winchester Ranger T/bonded hollow points that I had information about saved (pic related in this post and my next post). .45 numbers listed just for comparison purposes. Hopefully the formating on this table doesn't get screwed up.
brand ammo pen expansion 10mm Underwood 165 Gold Dot 12.1" .853" Parabellum research premium 155 gr Montana Gold 12.4" .791" prograde 140 TXP 12.9" .768" Precision cartridge 180 Golden Saber 13.8" .878" * Precision one 180 Zero JHP 13.8" .844" * Buffalo Bore 155 TXP 14" .696" Double Tap 125 TXP 14.25" .668" Reed's A&R 165 Golden Saber 14.7" .770" Double Tap 200 Nosler JHP 15.5" .679" Federal 180 TB JSP 16.7" .635" Parabellum Research 200 XTP 19.9" .579"
>>28426029 >>28426043 Oops, just realized that the 10mm penetration and expansion numbers were denim tests. Here are the numbers for 9mm and .45 through denim (reordered based on penetration), which strangely enough are closer to 10mm than the bare gel numbers are and around my originally claimed .1" difference (.11"-.05" difference in expansion depending on the penetration depth for 9mm vs 10mm) with the boutique Precision cartridge and Precision one loads only expanding .17"-.2" more.
>>28428900 But it does. Melanin decreases density in flesh, which you should have learned in 8th grade. The decreased density is also why blacks tend to have a lower iq, as there brain is slightly less dense.
>>28426029 >>28426043 >>28426788 Thanks anon. Saved that so I can repost it any time people start making claims about 10mm stopping power. I've even found some boutique 9mm loads that expand to within .1" of those boutique 10mm loads while penetrating just as far that I can add to the list.
>>28429479 >I sure as fuck know what I'd rather have in a warzone. The 9mm one because it would be significantly more controllable and you could pack significantly more ammo due to it being lighter and smaller? Though I'd personally take an MP7 if I wanted a subgun for that role.
You do understand that when it comes to defensive ammunition just about any load is going to be designed with a performance threshold in mind right?
Outside of having bullets specifically designed for high velocity you aren't going to be seeing anything crazy because over penetration is bad and controlling expansion is tricky. You get extra energy transfer with defensive 10mm and that's about it.
The potential of 10mm isn't really seen when used against people
>>28431246 Would you like a stupid car analogy to help you understand? The gun itself can be very well made, well machined, well fitted, heated treated, given a mirror polished blue and engraved with gold inlays. But the DESIGN wasn't meant for the forces it now has to contend with.
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