Is Russian military over rated?
They invaded Ukraine and Ukraine is still there, BBC have news of massive Russia tanks groups into Ukraine but Ukraine is still there! Is Russian doctrine of mass tanks not a good tactics against Ukraine Air Force and Infantry battalions of anti tank weapons? I heard Azov battalion received many volunteers from foreigners. Did foreigners train Azov to be powerful against masses of Russian tanks?
inb4 /pol/, I just want to know weapons tactics and why Russia tactics were embarassing destroyed by Ukrainian tactics with help from USA volunteers.
Because Russia can't bring their full might down on Ukraine without being completely and utterly shit on by the rest of the world.
All shilling aside, that's the simple fact of the matter. If Russia openly invaded Ukraine and was willing to deal with the consequences, they'd roll over them, as Putin said, in a couple of weeks at most.
>I just want to know weapons tactics and why Russia tactics were embarassing destroyed by Ukrainian tactics with help from USA volunteers.
Sorry to burst your bubble, mr proud ukrainian looking for props, but Russia is fighting with two hands tied behind their back.
Pretty much this >>22841857
No, BBC says Russia invaded Ukraine there are news about it, Ukraine fought back them and they retreat back into Russia!
But enough of little stuff. What did Ukraine do to destroy large numbers of Russian armor? Was it many anti tank missile infantries? Was it Su-25 bombings? Tochka-U? What made Russia afraid of the Ukrainians, enough to make Putin ask Ukraine for mercy and negotiations table?
A ragged bunch which comprises of a bunch of men who were bored that decided to cross the border managed to nearly defeat the Ukrainian military.
The real story is not how weak the Russians are, but how weak the Ukrainians are.
yeah sure that is what happened...
or maybe putin offered a bunch of easy money for afghan veteran baby-killers and threw at them shittons of deniable war equipment to go over in ukrain and fuck their shit in a semi-asymmetric warfare, providing them with heavy artillery and air defense support from over the russian side of the border.
Yeah this right here is the best way to look at this situation. The separatists don't have a lot of shit or huge numbers of troops and yet they are managing to hold of the Regular Ukraine army augmented by volunteer soldiers and proper hardware.
How have the Ukraine Military fucked this up so badly?
Why don't YOU do some research? There are a few thousands Russian soldiers in Ukraine. They have even been interviewed: http://www.newsweek.com/2014/09/19/russian-soldiers-reveal-truth-behind-putins-secret-war-269227.html
Russian bodies are sent back to Russia and buried with minimum fuss and the survivors aren't feeling very motivated either.
> Ukraine captures strategic hill near border
> shelled the fuck out by "separatist" artillery from Russian side of border
> Russia sends supply convoy, humanitarian supposely
> separatists launch counteroffensive right after
> Russia sends second convoy
> separatists launch second offensive
There is so much unguarded hardware. Don't you remember stories of nukes that went missing?
They store ordnance out in the open.
They got the shit kicked out of it. Even before the war, ukraine had laughable air force. I saw a video in march of a ukraining mig-29 flying over rebel positions, it still had a acrobatics paint job on it. They didnt have jet fuel, some rich guy had to send them tankers to get them airborn so fuck that.
Most of that shit is 100% un-usable
Its all left-overs from the post USSR break-up when the Ruskies had to move their entire military-footprint out of eastern europe and had no-where to dump it.
I have read stories about whole Brigades of russian soldiers living in their trucks on the side of the road for months after the pull out - they went home and there was no where to keep them all.
Thats where 90% of these pics come from.
Ever read that story of how they lost a Bn's worth of tanks for like 20 years? Its that exact same situation.
However, the crux of the story is: 99% of those munitions are un-usable.
>Don't you remember stories of nukes that went missing?
C'mon, these are just myths invented by sensationalist western media.
All the nuclear arsenal is kept in underground storage facilities.
>BBC have news of massive Russia tanks groups into Ukraine
>BBC have news of massive Russia tanks groups into Ukraine
Remember that time where they had proof that Assad gased his own people? Or that time when they had proof that Iraqi soldiers ripped out kuwaiti babies out of incubators?
Any NGO is considered foreign organisation, and registered as such in Russia, if it cooperates with anyone from outside Russia.
And Soldier's Mothers of Russia is considered is considered "troublemakers" ever since they made public fact, that Russian Army would send back empty coffins from Chechnya, because they didn't bother to retrieve bodies, and harass families, so they don't tell their son died in war.
>Russian Army would send back empty coffins from Chechnya, because they didn't bother to retrieve bodies
>Or maybe because... you know.... they were blown apart.
That NGO is fucking snakes in the grass.
I wonder when Russia ill be supporting NGOs here.
except, you know, they went to Chechnya DURING war looking for MIAs, and learned a lot of bad shit about war. Made public many things, like Russian officers selling weapons to Chechens, or handing conscripts as hostages to Chechens as guaranty when dealing with them.
After 1994/95 battle of Grozny it's the mothers who went to Grozny after main battle to negotiate POWs release. Russian army didn't even stop shelling, when Chechens were handing over captured soldiers to their families
>They invaded Ukraine and Ukraine is still there
Didn't school start for you little American faggots?
>inb4 /pol/, I just want to know weapons tactics and why Russia tactics were embarassing destroyed by Ukrainian tactics with help from USA volunteers.
The Ukrainians were forced into a ceasefire because the Russians actually opened a second front against them close to Mariupol and effectively captured entire battalions of Ukrainian forces. With an effective force of 1,000 Russian soldiers.
The Russians never really invaded. And that's why the war took even this long.
When they, the Russians, actually intervened with less than a fraction of the troops that they had stationed along the border, it sent the entire Ukrainian government (who weeks before officially said no peace accord until all terrorists give up their arms) and their military got pushed out of many Donbass areas and was now forced to grant autonomy and amnesty to Eastern Ukrainians.
When Putin said he could take Kiev in two weeks if he wanted to do so to Barroso, the recent conflict showed he can actually do it.
As much as I want to say that's a good organization, you do know that ever since the Cuba incident with their version of twitter or something, no one really trusts what US-affiliated NGOs say anymore as neutral.
Post pics so I can laugh at you.
Every day there's someone claiming advanced armored vehicles or some grenade launcher, or some sniper rifle, or something has been found in rebel hands when it shouldn't be there.
Every time the pics are posted people prove them wrong.
>implying the Ukraine being weak is a story
It's like you were born yesterday
also the Ukraine is a shattered, barely-there government right now and they've managed to hold onto their mainland against an insurgency, not exactly the worst outcome that could happen to them
I fought in combat and one thing I know is that if you're man enough to don a uniform and pick up a weapon, you're no different from that special forces guy who had a ton of training. He may have a tab but you have experience.
When the whole mess started, Ukrainian mass media went full retard with claims of rebels using all sorts of Russian hi-tech, KORDs, 100 series AKs, various rocket launchers when they were actually using old stuff Ukrainians had stashed. Some time after they claimed they never used T-72s while actually rolling those out of storage they completely lost legitimacy in my eyes. Now, they did capture a few cool items their forces don't possess, such as the new model T-72 or ASVK, a lot of people who did research on their ludicrous statements a while back didn't pay those news much attention. It's a classic boy who cried wolf story.
gonna be a hard sell because of that pesky "open and free media that loves a good poutrage that means nothing" thing the States has going for it.
>CNN has exclusive: could your 'charitable donation' be used to fund anti-American propaganda?
Before the start of hostilities, Putin brought back the architect of Zapad, was it just for intimidation, or did the Ukraine Crisis gave Russia some technological insight for its military?
Before someone says it's like America getting experience from fighting Iraq.
CNN is obviously propaganda, you should be objective and watch Al Jazeera instead.
give rebel weapon=/=invading Ukraine
one or two tank is not a mass massacre
and rest of the NATO would put back russia in it's place in less than a year.
Don't forget russia being a cunt just to be a cunt and ruin everyon'es life for no reason has made it A LOT of enemies.
"underground" means 6ft of dirt over a concrete arch.
I've been to those "top secret well guarded russian missile bases, they're just glorified concealment, the sites are guarded at best, very few have actual maintenance. Russia has no money to keep it's army fed, fueled, maintained, trained and up to date. A few armies are modern, rest is just a place to dump those filthy conscripts to.
Even if you are telling the truth
>which I doubt
You probably saw ballistic missiles that were in storage in old hangers
Unless its in a Silo the war-head and the missile itself are stored seperatly.
The resions for this are legion
> "Russia don't support rebels, it's all local boys!"
former FSB is in command
> "but rebels don't operate heavy weapons!"
An-26 and Boeing get dropped by Buk-M
> "we don't arm rebels"
Pictures showing brand new Russian weapons in hands of rebels
> "we don't help rebels in fighting"
Pictures show Russian artillery shelling Ukraine
> "our soldiers are not there!"
Russian soldiers get killed
> "they were on vacations!"
Russian soldiers are captured in full uniform, with full equipement
> "they just turned wrong way on highway!"
>all these slavaboos and RTshillers think russia can do anything against a country with any form of military
>absolute piss poor performance in georgia
>got #rekt by chechens
>got #rekt by afghanis
>implying putinites don't claim it will be different every time
Russia is a mad baby that gets put into their place every decade or so by the West, they are already hard hit by sanctions and we haven't even laid them on yet.
Apparently russians have super advanced stealth technology, they have managed to hide the whole army in east Ukraine and still stay undiscovered by NATO.
A little bit. I would not say they are way overrated but I believe the Russian army lives off the rep they gained as the red army which was a excellent fighting force during the cold war.
They are definitively not as good as they used to be.
Ukraine has it. They had 4 launchers under MH17 actually.
>Pictures showing brand new Russian weapons in hands of rebels
Has never actually been confirmed, it's only journalists who can't tell difference between weapons, and don't know a thing about exports.
>Pictures show Russian artillery shelling Ukraine
As posted on twitter by some guy from Ukraine embassy, and denied by US state dept.
>Russian soldiers get killed
As reported by CIA controlled NGO.
>Russian soldiers are captured in full uniform, with full equipement
They're a spy team retard, there's a civil war next to Russian borders, they have a right to make sure it's not going to spill over.
Out of T-72 models that entered service, Kontakt-5 ERA and lack of IR Illuminator are combination unique to T-72B3 and T-90S.
> VSS was widely exported.
Used by special forces of Kyrgyzstan. Hardly "widely"
Oh and the Mother's of Russian Soldiers Organization based in Moscow, saying that over 300 young soldiers have been killed JUST during this month? Yeah, must be American propaganda.
Dude, let the scales fall from your eyes. Putler ain't exactly an angel.
You know for such a powerful military it does surprise me that the ruskies have looked so weak in the Ukraine. Invading neighbor counties is a Russian specialty. They should be good at it by now.
why do you shill so hard for russia friend?
you do understand that its only a matter of time before russia finally accepts the west, right? you may have been able to brainwash the poor masses into believing that communism shit before, but they are getting sick of it. they just want to drive mustangs, eat at red lobster, and take vacations to hawaii.
do you hate us because were so #rich? are you envious of us when you see us in movies and see what our lives are like?
i find that russians/chinese are really envious of the western lifestyle. you cant blame them though. their countries are shitholes.
>Has never actually been confirmed
Yes, those VSS and KVSK clearly came from local milsurp stores
>As reported by CIA controlled NGO.
and Russian MoD denying they were there officially, claiming soldiers were on vacations and went fight Ukraine on their own.
>They're a spy team retard
>conscripts sent as black-op reconnaissance
>tweeted about going to "destroy maidan" before that
>All this bait
As for OP, the only Russian involvement is about 2000 men on a contract for operations in Ukraine, this is added with others who deserted their camps to fight in Ukraine and also basic volunteers.
If Russia would have invaded, a 50,000 large task force would be inside of he country already from Belarus, Western Russia and Crimea, so I don't know if OP is retarded and needs to return to /pol/ because he has already shifted up other threads on /k/, or is just mentally handicapped.
And another thing; the Russian intervention really heated up in the end of August, and only a few weeks have past since then and ever since, the Ukrainian army has been absolutely rekt.
Check out the shoulder thing that goes up, it's a feature of T-72B. A 1982 tank.
T-72B3 are fairly popular, you can't Jew about it online because there's more than enough pics to prove you wrong.
> Hardly "widely"
Look up operators on Wiki. Then multiply that because each operator probably sold it in turn to a third party. It's called "proliferation".
For comparison, the older tank pic.
>local milsurp stores
Why do Americans keep saying this?
Do you even realize the vast majority of rebels has been trained and equipped by the Ukrainian military? Ukraine has conscription, all those guys fighting already received military training from the government.
Their military leadership was once upon a time part of the territorial defense units for that part of Ukraine.
They have aid from Berkut members who Kievites chased out and such, as well as massive stockpiles of weapons. Ukraine had 1000 T-72s mothballed because they couldn't get parts for them, and most of those graveyards are in the southern military district.
The politicians that lead them were also once part of Ukrainian political system.
Incredibly over reperesented in some ways and underrated in quite a few ways as well. While Russian equipment is often presented as the golden standard by Slavaboos and as absolute shit by Westerners, most Slavic equipment lies somewhere in between shit and meh tier quality. Russian SPAAGs, SAMs, and planes are all fairly decent and, in some ways, better than their NATO counterparts, but at the same time their tanks, troops, and rifles are all pretty low quality. The Russians pass on all the good rifles (AEK-971/973, AK-107, T-80s, proper training for the average soldier) in favor of shitty equipment (T-72s, incredibly old AK-74Ms, AN-94, etc.) because of budget constraints and "muh Kalashniov tradition." Not necessarily the best source, but if you watch the Larry Vicker's video where he tries out the AN-94 and AEK-971 you'll hear one of the Russians talk about how officers didn't want to learn how to maintain a new rifle, so they just said "lol it's shit" and continued their order from Kalashnikov.
As said, Russians also are incredibly understated in some areas; mostly in terms of tactics. It's often thought by many that Russia's solution to a problem is to throw numbers at it, but in reality it's a bit more complex than that. Not sure if it continues this way today, but the way that I was always taught how Russians worked were to neglect units that are doing shitty and reinforce units that are doing well, sort of a merit system.
"T-72M" separatists claim they captured from Ukraine.
>Look up operators on Wiki
Russia, Kyrgyzstan and 2 sourceless.
>Why do Americans keep saying this?
I's called "been sarcastic". How else you can respond to person calmly saying like broken record, that equipement unique to Russian army was captured from Ukrainian army.
>why Russia tactics were embarassing destroyed by Ukrainian tactics with help from USA volunteers.
Is this going to be like every other war since about 1900 where Americans claim they were decisive in its outcome, but when you look into it they aren't around at all?
My old man is in the RLI Association and has had more Americans email him with claims of RLI/other Rhodesian service than there were foreign volunteers total in Rhodesia.
Yes because refugees should travel through heavy fighting.
They went through Poland and Belarussia headed for Russia. The presence of refugees in Russia is undisputed, considering the giant logistical effort they took to house them and transport them.
Are these all actors?
That's a Ukrainian T-72 for export, which India is buying under the Ajeya program.
Russian upgrades use TKN-4S sight.
Thanks for the webm by the way.
>equipement unique to Russian army
Maybe if you prove this even once you wouldn't need to shitpost "sarcastically".
Only place they "invaded" was Crimea, and that was no more than a couple of battalions of VDV and special forces. They have involvement in Ukraine, they're giving the rebels supplies and possible training, but beyond that they'd rather not risk conventional warfare with NATO.
They were slightly overrated in 70s and 80s.
Then the economic collapse of late 80s/early 90s made the west thing "oh my god, we were so wrong", and they started underrating them until today.
Basically US opinion of Soviet union was poor at the start because our only knowledge of them was through German WWII flights over Russia. It's not until U2 and other spy assets came onto the field that we managed to penetrate the iron curtain. Then we had a few minor red scares because of Mil-Industrial complex needed a "gap" to justify spending.
Modern day Russia is approaching effectiveness of Soviet union at its height.
Here's some faggot shooting it, a vid of another faggot shooting it
> Two of the Small Arms Defense Journal writers were granted the opportunity to examine in detail both the weapons and the ammunition in the field at a discreet location in Southwest Asia. In addition to extensive disassembly and photography, we were also given the opportunity to test fire both the VSS silenced sniper rifle and the VIKHR submachine gun with our meters ready to conduct scientific testing. We wanted to be as thorough as possible with this unique opportunity.
Or almost anything with an integrated silencer like SRS, or custom ARs and AKs.
If some guy buys a rifle and heads to Ukraine, that doesn't mean Russia is supplying rebels there. Talk to me when they find crates full of VSS.
Same logic with tanks or soldiers, don't mention them unless you have proof of 1000+ units. I'm not naive enough to believe Russia is invading Ukraine with a single tank, ten guys, and a sniper rifle.
how's that suprising? Europe ends on Ural mountains and Caspian Sea
On related note, any news on /k/ommandos making VSS copy?
Thats russian T-72B3. None of ukrainian T-72 export proposals look this way - mostly becasue ukrainian export versions are based on partts and tech from T-80 series (look at sideskirts era for example - the big square plates are made in russia, not the shaped ones like in late T-80s) .
Also, russians are building Thales stuff on license.
>also the Ukraine is a shattered, barely-there government right now and they've managed to hold onto their mainland against an insurgency
I do not think you realize how little of Ukraine is in separatist hands.
>Also European forces have significantly grown since cold war as well.
Umm, no they haven't. They've cut down a lot of spending on defense. The US got real angry about it that NATO isn't spending money on defense aside from the US.
Someone's gonna get #rekt by Russia real soon, wonder who it would be.
what have you been smoking?
While the russians may have sent soldiers and a few tanks over the border, there's no indication they have been OPENLY invading with the old sovjet doctrine of rushing with a great number of tanks.
I bet the european and american intelligence would have provided proof if that was the case, and they've only provided proof of a few culumns, not excactly a mass invasion.
Also, the Ukraine forces are getting BTFO, people are deserting everywhere, they end up losing equipment to the seperatists.
Russia don't fucking WANT the entire Ukraine, just some of the parts where they have at least SOME support, like in the east. They know it would be a disaster to occupy the west-friendly parts of Ukraine.
I wish Ukraine the best, but it seems like the seperatists have pretty good control over their areas, and everytime the Ukraine forces have tried taking it back, they overextend, and end up being enveloped.
>Sorry to burst your bubble, mr proud ukrainian looking for props, but Russia is fighting with two hands tied behind their back.
You do know Russia has drones older than 15 years old right?
The difference is that we have an open internet (for the time being.) that being said its nowhere near as regulated as internet in Russia, face it faggot, we can talk shit about our governments and their flaws without having to worry about some Manlet and his goon squad.
Yes I'm sure Russian soldiers that were most likely selected out of its professional soldiers instead of its conscript forces would just break OPSEC under death penalty.
>inb4 russian shill
Reminder that Zapad-81 was made to show off to Poland. Reminder that the Ukraine was invaded so to pressure Polish #FreedomApples. Reminder that Poland is the strongest nation in the world.
I remember reading an interview of one of the Ukrainian volunteer battalion commanders just recently. They said that the Russian armored battalions in the south had a 6:1 tank kill to death ratio. He was actually sighting this as evidence for why they *had* to be Russians.
What is happening in the Ukraine is nothing more but a political Skirmish.
A Russian Puppetstate rebelled, so the Russians propped up their loyal Puppets, while NATO hassles Russia a little by blowing in the Fire from time to time.
However neither of them has really lost anything important and nobody has a interest in starting a real War.
The rusty Russian Army is no real Threat to NATO and NATO is bound by the fact, that the majority of its members are more interested in trading with Russia, than bombing it.
I see. It's a real hot issue and both sides have access to the Internet. So shitstorms are immenent. Good job, slavs.
My point is that butthurt Ukies can use the internet.
Anyway, had the military situation devolved back into both sides just shelling each other?
>just as nato forces would wrap up russia in a conventional warfare in less than a month.
That's not even remotely true.
Russian military contains several times more in sheer numbers of units than all nations NATO has fought.
They're more technologically advanced than any military NATO has fought.
And they're more experienced in insurgent combat as well.
Conventionally it would take a damn miracle to end it in "a month", unconventionally it's not even conceivable.
Yes, there is quite a number of pro-ukrainian shitposters here, but it seems most of them are baltic or poles.
Some threads turn into:
>"Putin is the new Hitler, we need to have a collective effort to crush the new Sovjet union once and for all, let NATO fight the prorussians"
>"No, Putin is the greatest leader who has ever lived, and he only wants what's best for Ukraine. The entire EU is comprised of nazis, and the only people disgruntled by Yanucovich were the nazis"
>"it was Putin himself who shot down the passenger jet, just to start WW3"
>"no, it was a Ukrainian SU-25, because muh false flag"
What's more likely is neither Russia, nor EU is innocent in this conflict, and none of them takes any consideration to what the ukranians want. Ukraine has shitloads of natural resources, the best soil in the world, gas, oil, coal and industry. Both Russia and the EU wants this, and they are going to get it, with no consideration to Ukraine.
Meanwhile, the US can exploit the conflict. Because of the sanctions between EU and Russia, Germany has to get its gas from somewhere. The US are the only ones who can provide it to them, thereby getting richer.
It's also interesting to notice the former east bloc vulnerability to conspiracy theories about just about anything. I know this one Pole, and he tells other poles also believe this, that their president was killed off by the russians a few years ago, even though it's pretty clear it was just a regular crash. It makes sense though, in the same way the chinese also think it's a conspiracy behind the dissappearance of that one airliner. If a people spend enough time in a totalitarian regime, they won't believe in ANYTHING the government says, even if it's true.