Now back! Clearing Lunatic edition. Manage your resources--use up your bombs, and you can do it too.
ITT: Discuss gameplay, ask for advice, post achievements, share feels, and let's be respectful and friendly: the image of a bullet hell player is that of a hard worker. Players of all skill levels welcome, including those just starting.
So, we're branching off from the /vg/ shmups general this time, in search of a more dedicated space, as it turns out that Touhou stands a little apart from other shmups. It is my hope that everyone can have a good time.
Last successful thread at.
For a discussion topic: Has anyone already achieved their goals in Touhou for 2016?
Since I set myself a goal of clearing all Lunatic modes, that one has been going slowly, but steady for now. It seems that it takes me under a month to learn, and achieve a 1cc in an average Touhou game on Lunatic, provided that I already cleared it on a lower difficulty. Having a pace is reassuring.
>For a discussion topic: Has anyone already achieved their goals in Touhou for 2016?
My goal is at least 2 hard 1cc's and at least 1 EX clear. So far I've gotten 1 hard 1cc, so I'm making progress at least.
>it turns out that Touhou stands a little apart from other shmups
I'll bet it's more that Touhou "fans" have a bad reputation, and nobody can tell the difference between people who just masturbate to the characters and the people who play the games and masturbate to the characters.
>My goal is at least 2 hard 1cc's and at least 1 EX clear. So far I've gotten 1 hard 1cc, so I'm making progress at least.
That's nice to hear! Hard doesn't require as much memorisation, so it's a feasible goal. Extras do seem to require memorisation, but given how short they are, the effort is comparable to finishing a game on Hard. Which games are you playing?
Your Lord and Saviour, for one.
No, but being assertive is a habit. Worst case scenario, we'll just never reach the bump limit.
Shopping around, really. The one 1cc is LLS, but I'm trying to decide whether I want to put the investment into SA or just play around in PCB/IN until I get it. Same with the EX clear, though I got really close with Flan the other day.
What an odd thing to ask about someone posting as anon.
I'd say try clearing PCB first. The game is straightforward, in my opinion fun, and not too difficult like SA. If nothing else, having another Hard clear will give you more confidence when you decide to tackle SA.
Maybe. PCB was one of the first games I cleared when I first got into the series, and while I still like it the best I'm enjoying playing around too much, and SA's been tempting me for a while now.
Not too much worse. I think I got it about half a dozen attempts and I'm usually a normal player.
In my experience sticking to one game works better than shopping around, since they all ultimately require a measure of dedication. Although, well, I've done a few Hard clears while obviously focusing on other games.
Second this. I find that whenever I jump from game to game, the reaction time of whoever you play as differs a bit from other games. It'll throw you.. On another note, does anyone find that your playing ability will just level down at times, its hard to explain, but it just feels like your keyboard isn't angled in that perfect spot, or your chair is off, just something really little that you cant put a finger on but you know somethings off?
I try a different game every year but never finish a single one. I'm thinking of diving into LoLK since it's the latest one. Unfamiliar to danmaku in general.
I'm interested in getting gud enough to just beat the games. Will Pointdevice Mode build bad habits? From what I've read it's the "intended" mode. Should I start with another game instead?
>your playing ability will just level down at times
I've played enough that I know exactly where my keyboard and hand positioning should be, but sometimes bad days happen anyway, and you just gotta power through it.
Point device mode is fine for practicing. Just find something you like and stick with it until you 1cc normal, then either 1cc other games on normal or move up to harder difficulties when you feel like it.
Welcome and please take it easy.
Still playing soku pretty much every day.
Yeah, I have. I had three things I definitely wanted to do this year and assumed the first thing would take up half of it but it ended not even taking all of January. I was lucky I got it early because it leaves more time for the other two things.
New here, buddy? That's how you make a thread on JAYPEE.
>got to stage 5 with 7 lives and 3 bombs
That would mean you played stages 1-4 perfectly, without getting hit or bombing once till stage 5.
And then you lost everything on stage 5?
I find that hard to believe.
Pointdevice is weird, and while it's neat in its own way, I really don't think it's helpful for a new player. For one thing, it will make you mad, almost guaranteed; when you're getting rekt by one section and have no idea what to do because you have no experience, and get stuck in a loop of dying over and over without being able to make any progress, all the fun will be sucked right out of it. And that aside, yes, it will teach bad habits, like becoming numb to dying. It's just a very different game than the others, and so playing it won't really help you, unless literally all you want is to see a good ending and say you cleared one game.
As for what game is better to start with, there's no perfect choice, but any besides 11 and 12 should be fine. Play around a bit and see which ones you like; just keep a few things in mind. Firstly, always read the manual. Each game has its own unique mechanics, and you'll need to understand and take advantage of them. Secondly, try different shot types, since some are much easier to use for a clear than others. And lastly, stick with it. Even if it seems impossible, play a little bit every day and you'll make progress in no time. Good luck, anon.
If he only had three bombs there, then he actually did bomb some number of times beforehand, depending on who he's playing. And Youmu is fucking brutal, especially before you learn all the tricks for dealing with her; I had similar experiences many times.
What do you find fun about 7?
This is why everytime I get back into bullet hell it ends in a ragequit. I can't control my emotions and most of the time when I loose one life in a stupid way, I get so frustrated that I can't focus and play well anymore, loose a second one, get more frustrated, and the cycle continues until gameover.
Thats pretty rough dude, reminds me of my SA runs when Orin ruins everything
Marisa and Reimu feel hard at first because they're kind of overwhelming, like you get there and they just start shitting bullets all over you. However, once you get over the intimidation factor, they're not too hard. Reimu's fight is just minor variants of 'move back and forth'. Marisa's is a bit harder, but still not bad overall. Watch a playthrough if you can't figure out how to deal with anything.
As for Kaguya, I always assumed she's easier than Eirin because it would be soul-crushing to clear the game once, get a neutral end, then not be able to go right back and get the good end.
I realize shopping around isn't a great idea, but since I started playing around in MAME or with other stuff I find I have less enthusiasm for sticking to one game. I'll probably just home in on SA though, since it's one of the few Touhou games I haven't cleared at all.
I have 2 questions for Lunatic players :
Before LoLK release, I read all the time that the hardest Touhou on Lunatic is SA or UFO (I think UFO but I see more people thinking about SA).
Now that LoLK is there, at the begining everybody thinked that LoLK is the hardest Touhou (without including PC-98 games, else it's HRtP that is the hardest Lunatic to 1cc, I guess).
But now, maybe people change their mind about LoLK.
So the first question is, among the three giant (SA, UFO and LoLK) wich one has the hardest Lunatic and what is your ranking ? For me, it's : UFO first, LoLK, and SA. But if we force ourself to use the same max number of bomb than UFO or SA, LoLK is the hardest.
Last question, in all Touhou Windows games, with what playable character with what shot type make the game where it is the hardest Lunatic game ? I didn't test all shot type/character of all games but for me it's IN that has the hardest Lunatic if I play Youmu alone.
I only play on normal, but the absolute worst shot type no matter what has to be Sakuya B in 14.
The danmaku on its own isn't awful, pretty much average aside from Shou, but most of the difficulty comes from mastering UFO collection, which I can only imagine scales horrendously with difficulty.
I don't mean it like that. Getting the UFO is easy. The problem is that most life/bomb pieces come from the UFO. Not only do they disappear relatively quickly, but they also are somewhat based on RNG, so you're pretty much fucked either way. Waiting for a multi colored one to change to a specific color and then planning a quick route is hell.
As easily the best player in this thread, what I say holds much more weight than the rest of you cretins.
Hardest to easiest. Non debatable. Official listing.
LoLK > DDC > IN > SA > TD > EoSD > PCB > MoF > UFO
Anybody that finds UFO hard should just quit playing shmups, because they're clearly shit at the game.
Here, take a casual pacifist run of Ichirin I did back in 2011.
UFO has always been a joke.
I don't see you coming with any valid critiscisms either.
>Getting the UFO is easy.
>Waiting for a multi colored one to change to a specific color and then planning a quick route is hell.
So which one is it? Is getting the UFOs hard or not?
>but they also are somewhat based on RNG
>Not only do they disappear relatively quickly
You mean the UFOs or the life/bomb pieces? Because if the latter, then I don't know what you're complaining about since they've always fallen at the same speed in all Windows games.
If the latter, you can mitigate it by applying some foresight. Plan ahead, so that the UFO appears at the times it benefits you the most.
>So which one is it? Is getting the UFOs hard or not?
Getting them is easy. Getting the right color isn't.
The colors are based on the last UFO token of the UFO you summoned and on the time past since you destroyed the UFO. Not exactly RNG, but it can become random and chaotic in many ways. For one, if you collect them in a different order than you want, you'll have to wait more to get a specific color. And if you want that color, but it's about to change and you don't have others, you'll either have to keep close to it or wait a whole cycle.
>If the latter, you can mitigate it by applying some foresight. Plan ahead, so that the UFO appears at the times it benefits you the most.
That is true, but if you wait too long, you won't get a certain life/bomb piece before it disappears.
The UFO system is objectively the worst resource mechanic of any game, though whether or not it's the hardest is a matter of opinion. Unlike other games, where resources are naturally accumulated (or in the case of 14 and 15, by exploiting an existing mechanic), 12 forces you to essentially play two games at once, games that are at odds with each other at that. In other words, rather than rewarding you for playing the game, it makes you jump through arbitrary hoops to get literally anything except the one drop Nue gives you in stage 4.
It was ZUN's first experiment with a truly different resource mechanic, and unfortunately, it just didn't work out. The game wasn't even designed around it particularly well. 14 and 15 did a much better job, having mechanics that work alongside the gameplay and stage design that reflects them.
Now again, if you find the danmaku in 12 so easy that you don't need resources in the fist place, then the UFO mechanic doesn't add difficulty, but that doesn't mean it isn't bad.
Anyway, as far as the RNG aspect and the UFOs disappearing too quickly - yes, you can plan ahead and memorize the best times to shoot things down and so on, but the exact circumstances will be always be a little different. There are lots of steps that go into getting each individual piece, and thus a lot of room for things to go wrong. And once one thing goes wrong, it fucks up your entire plan.
All this said, I actually quite like 12, because everything aside from the UFOs is great.
>Most forgettable character cast
Is today opposite day? Also, who are you quoting?
Ah, his true feelings become apparent.
UFOs always follow the same color pattern. Red->Blue->Green->Red->Blue->Green, repeat. Not grabbing the UFO on time is not the fault of the game, you just lacked the skill necessary to fly between the bullets and grab it on time. And having to wait is the punishment for it, much like how dying is the punishment for getting hit.
>The DDC system is objectively the worst resource mechanic of any game, though whether or not it's the hardest is a matter of opinion. Unlike other games, where resources are naturally accumulated (or in the case of 11 and 15, by exploiting an existing mechanic), 14 forces you to essentially play two games at once, games that are at odds with each other at that. In other words, rather than rewarding you for playing the game, it makes you jump through arbitrary hoops to get literally anything.
>It wasn't ZUN's first experiment with a truly different resource mechanic, but unfortunately, this one just didn't work out. The game wasn't even designed around it particularly well. 11 and 15 did a much better job, having mechanics that work alongside the gameplay and stage design that reflects them.
>Now again, if you find the danmaku in 14 so easy that you don't need resources in the fist place, then the PoC mechanic doesn't add difficulty, but that doesn't mean it isn't bad.
Three whole paragraphs and you said nothing of value at all, proven by the way it's just as valid when I replace UFO with DDC.
>Anyway, as far as the RNG aspect and the UFOs disappearing too quickly - yes, you can plan ahead and memorize the best times to shoot things down and so on, but the exact circumstances will be always be a little different. There are lots of steps that go into getting each individual piece, and thus a lot of room for things to go wrong. And once one thing goes wrong, it fucks up your entire plan.
Anon, we're not robots. When I tell you to plan, I'm not telling you to write down in a piece of paper at which X and Y position in the screen you must be at every second of your playthrough. It's smaller things, like "OK, this is the third red UFO in this level, I have to wait this much time before grabbing it so that I don't get walled in" or something like that. You can't be EXACT and PIXEL PERFECT, because, as you said, every playthrough will always differ ever-so-slighty from the previous and the next, so you not only need to plan things out, but also adapt your plans to the current situation ("shit, i destroyed the UFO too soon by accident. better be careful going forward since i now have one less life to work with").
I understand that this may be difficult, and cause you a lot of frustration, but difficult =/= bad.
I like UFO. The music is good and i liked the ufo mechanic. I agree that is not as hard as people like to say but i don't think is the easiest.
LoLK is the absolute hardest game in lunatic, people just like to parrot the idea that is easy because you can cheese throught the game with Sanae.
Worst shot type ever has to be solo Alice in IN.
Firstly, that's ridiculous. The auto-collection mechanic isn't at odds with normal gameplay at all, it's something you should be doing anyway. You get resources from playing it like you would any other game, albeit with a bit more bombing. And there are many parts throughout that telegraph 'auto-collect all this shit to get a life piece!', showing that the stages were designed with the mechanic in mind.
Also, including 11 in the comparison is stupid, because it was almost totally traditional; you just got a life piece for every boss pattern and spell that didn't kill you. Why don't you try saying '12 did a much better job' with a straight face.
>but difficult =/= bad
You're close to the crux of what I was saying in the first part of that post, and either didn't understand or purposely ignored.
Difficulty isn't a bad thing at all; that's not only true, but a key part of ZUN's philosophy on games. If you don't agree with that, you're probably not even here to read this. The thing is, difficulty by itself isn't good, either.
In order to make a good game (or part of one), it has to be not just 'difficult', but 'challenging', if you know what I mean. That is, it's easy to make something that's merely difficult, but to present the difficulty in a fun, rewarding way is something else. The UFO mechanic fails in that respect, and contradicts another of ZUN's ideas, that Touhou should be 'about the pure fun of dodging bullets'. Being forced to collect a set of the right UFOs, then fill up a large one, then shoot it down, takes you away from playing the actual stage. Dodging the bullets becomes secondary to optimizing your UFO collection, as the two objectives have nothing in common, and in fact interfere with each other. In contrast, the mechanics in 14 and 15 don't interfere with gameplay, but take advantage of things that you already do naturally; at worst, they make you play more recklessly.
I should say also, I got over the UFO mechanic. While only on Normal, I did clear 12 with every shot type, and after the first time it was pretty smooth sailing. Once you learn how to optimize the UFO collection, it's not too difficult. Even so, I still recognize that's it's not a good or well-thought-out system.
>UFOs always follow the same color pattern. Red->Blue->Green->Red->Blue->Green, repeat. Not grabbing the UFO on time is not the fault of the game, you just lacked the skill necessary to fly between the bullets and grab it on time. And having to wait is the punishment for it, much like how dying is the punishment for getting hit.
Right, but there's still the part of having to choose which UFO you get last, because the multi-colored UFO that comes out will have it's first color based on that.
I can only play LoLK with Marisa because i don't like homing shot types.
>Reimu has a small hitbox, makes some spellcards particularly easier. Homing.
>Sanae has a hilariously broken bomb and really high damage output for being a homing shot type. Easy mode.
>Reisen has a really exploitable bomb too and a really powerful piercing shot type. Makes the stages particularly easier.
>Marisa has a straight forward shot type and she doesn't have any special abilities other than the bigger graze radius. Her bomb is not powerful at all. Has a high damage output when in full power but if you have anything less than 3.00 power it will make capturing some spellcards almost impossible. Clipdeaths all over the place in stage 6 and in some patterns in extra.
It feels the most "fair" shot type in my opinion but is also the most difficult.
>What do you find fun about 7?
Little bit of everything, from the atmosphere of the game, to the bullet patterns, the border mechanic, and MarisaA being my favourite shot type there. I normally ignore scoring but I was actually motivated to learn a few border chaining tricks here and there since they felt so cool to use. It's just a good game all around, one of the best ZUN has created.
>The auto-collection mechanic isn't at odds with normal gameplay at all, it's something you should be doing anyway.
And moving around the screen isn't? What, do you stay completely still and pray that the bullets don't hit you and that you have less enemies shooting shit at you than usual? How is "OK I have to move through these bullets and go there to grab that UFO" different from "OK I have to move through these bullets and go there or that laser is going to rape my mouth"?
>that Touhou should be 'about the pure fun of dodging bullets'.
Putting aside the fact that you HAVE to dodge bullets to get the UFOs, but wasn't he talking about EoSD when he said it? I can't see how that quote is relevant now if he was.
>Being forced to collect a set of the right UFOs, then fill up a large one, then shoot it down, takes you away from playing the actual stage.
How so? If you don't pay attention to what's going on in the stage, you're going to get fucked. Bullets and fairies don't immediately disappear when a small or big UFO or fragment are in play. They are still there and every time in a different configuration than the last and the next, either because your position in the level is different, or just plain RNG.
>Dodging the bullets becomes secondary
If you want to die, maybe. Being the UFO master will never make you impervious to getting shot in the face, let me remind you.
>as the two objectives have nothing in common, and in fact interfere with each other.
Playing normally requires you to evade the bullets to not lose lives and fuck up your rhythm. Getting UFOs requires you to evade the bullets to not mess up your plan and fuck up your rhythm. I don't see how these two objectives interfere with each other, you're always evading bullets and moving to different positions (either because that position has no bullets that kill you, or because there's a UFO there).
>the mechanics in 14 and 15 don't interfere with gameplay
Forcing the player to go up to the top of the screen, or to run up right next to bullets that coud kill them interferes with the gameplay in one way: To get the resources, the player has to play more recklessly, and be able to plan on the spot when and where are the most optimal times to do the actions to get resources (with memorization playing a role in that last part).
The EXACT SAME THING happens here. Grabbing those UFOs requires recklessness, and the ability to plan on the spot when and where are the most optimal times to run in and get those darned toys (with memorization playing a role in this last part too).
>Even so, I still recognize that's it's not a good or well-thought-out system.
Sorry, but I cannot agree with people saying UFO's system is "bad". It's not the best by any stretch of the word (DDC's is the best), but calling it "bad" rubs me the wrong way.
[to be continued, give me a few minutes]
That's interesting to hear! Lunatic UFO is on my list, but I was doubting its reputation as being very difficult. I have no overwhelming problem collecting UFOs since you just have to plan routes for them, and they let you have so many resources that it pays off easily. Maybe people just don't want to route?
I got my 2nd 1cc last night in th7. It was harder than th6 was for me. I'm so glad I made it into the last spell card with 1 life left. I just knew I would get hit.
You can do it. Practice stage 5 and 6 some more. Youmu and Yuyuko are hard.
Congratulations~. If you like Youmu, she has a very good shot type in th8. Very powerful, slightly difficult to use but you can always hold down Shift and fall back on Yuyuko. Just make sure you're centering on the enemy when using Yuyuko.
>In order to make a good game (or part of one), it has to be not just 'difficult', but 'challenging', if you know what I mean. That is, it's easy to make something that's merely difficult, but to present the difficulty in a fun, rewarding way is something else.
And this right here, is the reason why I always thought and think that whoever dislikes UFO's system is a casual.
You're not doing anything you haven't done before. You're dodging the bullets, you're moving around the screen, sometimes an enemy with much higher health than usual appears in front of you that you must take down (except this time with a time limit that's a punishment to hit). The typical stuff. And it's every bit as difficult and challenging as any other game.
So why is it that all of this is only bad when UFO does it? I've thought about this a lot, and the only conclusion I can come to is that people dislike it because they're bad at this game. I lied with that other statement, this game ISN'T every bit as difficult and challenging as other games. Depending on the person, it's either far more or far less. You have to dance through a wall of bullets, way forward and way back, (and with perfect timing in some cases) to get those UFOs, you have to manage a rain of bullets while making absolutely sure to evade the UFO and blow up any and every enemy that approaches to fill the UFO up, then you have to play killer dodgeball AGAIN except this time UNDER the UFO to destroy it, then you have to grab the first life/bomb fragment while STILL evading everything thrown at you, and then you have to destroy the UFO, grab the second piece without being too reckless (since the explosion takes a while to clear all the bullets) and then being extremely reckless to grab the small UFO before it changes color and fucks your rhythm up. And the tiniest mistake has the potential to cost you the whole game, if your skill can't offset any lost lives.
I myself find it fun.
But some people can't handle all that, so they blame the UFO system. I'm not accusing you of anything (right now, at least), I'm just explaining why I think the way I do, and perhaps the way many of the people who accuse UFO haters of being casual also do. Perhaps. Who knows. Maybe this isn't even a proper argument since it can be mostly summarized as "git gud" but I felt it needed to be said. Feel free to just ignore this post if you have to.
UFO is fun! I don't think is hard but i can't capture legendary flying saucer.
There is a hard mode patch for UFO too!
Again, I've cleared it. On Normal, as with every game because I'm bad, but I can still compare all of the games on equal footing. And, again, 12 isn't nearly the hardest once you get it figured out, nor is it the worst game overall, in my opinion. (If anything, I'm way more salty about 14 overall, but still recognize that the mechanic is better.) But the point is that it's not a matter of how difficult anyone finds the game, it's simply bad design to add a mechanic that's so removed from normal gameplay. To address your points,
>And moving around the screen isn't?
Not merely moving around, but moving away from safe areas into dangerous, bullet-dense ones for a piece of a chance at a piece of a bomb or life. It forces you to move contrary to the way the danmaku would normally make you move.
>Bullets and fairies don't immediately disappear when a small or big UFO or fragment are in play.
Exactly. You're playing the UFO-collecting game, and having to play the dodging game, at the same time, and you have to choose which to prioritize.
>either because that position has no bullets that kill you, or because there's a UFO there
Right, and often those places are entirely separate.
And so on. With grazing, you just graze. Maybe more intensely than usual, but it's still just focusing on not getting hit. With auto-collecting, you have to adjust to bombing more than usual, but bombing more won't hurt you. And you should hit the PoC more than usual, which is admittedly similar in a way, but it's a quick and relatively low-risk, high-reward action compared to the chain of things you need to do for the UFOs.
Like I pointed out, every other game makes you focus purely on dodging, and then periodically and/or depending on how well you dodge, it rewards you with resources. In contrast, 12 adds a whole other dimension, another simultaneous game, and makes you succeed at both to get any resources at all. If you're merely good at dodging, you don't get shit. The game doesn't reward you for playing the core of the game. (Unless you're so good that you need nothing, but then you have to get UFOs to score anyway...)
It's not about being a causal or not, it's just a principle of game design that the UFO mechanic breaks. If you enjoy the kind of difficulty that arises from that anyway, more power to you, but don't try to defend it as being a good choice.
Excellent work. l don't know if I'll ever be on a similar level. Just getting a 1cc on Lunatic is difficult enough for me.
Are you kidding me? Or are you talking about for a score run, not a clear? Her balanced shot types and decent bomb means she has no real weakness, making her a solid choice even if others excel in certain areas.
Sakuya B excels at nothing. Once you get to spell cards with bullets that can't be cancelled, her bomb is worse than useless, and her piss-weak yet laser-focused shot makes fighting Shinmyoumaru almost impossible.
>only bad if you are too dependant of bombs
But the game is made with the expectation that you have shit-ton of bombs, so of course you're supposed to use them.
Yay, cute Sanae. :3 And thank you. I'm sure that you'll achieve some Lunatics, too. Just gotta be more persistent!
No. In a survival run you'll want to capture spellcards as fast as possible, have you tried to capture Kagerou's "Moonlit Canine Teeth" with Reimu B?
>But the game is made with the expectation that you have shit-ton of bombs, so of course you're supposed to use them.
See, i told you, you rely too much on bombs, Sakuya's bomb is enough to get back on the track. You are expecting for the bomb to clear away the spellcard or the pattern.
I'm not saying that Sakuya B is a good shot type (she's not) i'm saying that is better than Reimu B by the sole fact that she does more damage and covers a larger range with her unfocused shot type.
I dunno about that. The wiki does say her green knives do slightly more damage than Reimu's needles, though I could've sworn it was the other way around. But as for covering a larger range, the amulets go right where they need to, while the knives leave huge gaps. And during bosses, even if you can't get your main shots in, all the amulets will still hit.
Anyway, I rely too much on bombs because the bosses are fucking brutal. I know Seija's flippy spells are a meme, but they're a cakewalk compared to some of the other shit in that game.
The problem is that the amulets are a bit slower than just shooting unfocused with the knives, you can notice this in stage 5 whit the enemies that flip over.
Also, yeah, some patterns are really tough but they are not that bad. The only one spellcard that is absolute bullshit is "inchling path" since the openings are extremely RNG dependant.
>the openings are extremely RNG dependant
Not at all. They're always just far enough to the right to keep your shots from connecting.
I just got into the games pretty recently, started with IN and 1cc'd IN Normal at the end of last year, so my goal right now is to both clear and 1cc most of the mainline games on normal, starting with EoSD and PCB and just going in order. When I get to IN I'll try to beat it with a different team or try EX Clear.
thematically, i really love kaguya's, even though they're just listing off the mythical items. im also quite partial to her finals spells all saying "Imperishable Night's End" and counting down the time.
I think we're starting to hit the point where we yell at each other "my opinion is better than yours!"
The UFO system highten the stakes considerably, and makes resource collection into a much more demanding endeavour, this much is objective. And while you see this as a negative, I legitimately do enjoy this style of high-risk, high-reward play. Jumping into enemy fire while making sure not to get hit and timing the UFO-catch nigh-perfectly to grab it when it's the right color, juggling the appearance of the UFO with evading the enemy bullets and then filling it up with items, memorizing what to do with the small UFOs to get the most out of each, this is all great stuff in my eyes. And while I wouldn't agree with it being "objectively bad" I won't argue that it's certainly different from everything else.
So I don't know, I suppose I concede.
And I guess I'll say it too: I beat UFO in Normal too. I did it with every shottype. However, I could never beat the Extra stage. I don't know what's wrong with me, but Kogasa always destroys me.
That was fucking rude.
im tired of being secondary
I hear that EoSD isnt really the place to start even though its chronologically the first amongst the newline Touhou, but with a patch its fine.
I forgot which patch it was though.
Can someone help?
That's the v-sync patch or "vpatch".
It solves an issue that happens when trying to run EoSD with newer computers (it causes the game to take too long to respond to your key presses).
The vpatch is available for several different games, just in case that same issue happens in another one. I had it happen in PCB, for example.
There's nothing wrong with starting with EoSD. The game will teach you no bad habits, only good ones. Just don't touch the starting lives setting, and especially don't install the hitbox patch.
>so theres a chance i may not even need the patch?
I'd first have to take a look at your computer. But yeah, try the game first and if you see the game takes abnormally long to respond to your key presses then you can come back and I'm sure someone will help you out with the patch.
I'd add that while those two anons are right, just don't think 6 is the best the series has to offer. Mechanically it's fine, but it feels kind of unpolished and lacks some features that have since become staples. But it's low-medium difficulty, so you should be fine as long as you stick with it. Good luck!
If we're talking thematically, you can't beat Miko's. As for raw cool factor, there are a lot of individual cards with great names, but I'd say Marisa is the most consistent.
Which one of Marisa's shot types is your favourite in MoF?
Mine is MarisaC, but I'd enjoy MarisaB too if it weren't glitched. MarisaA gives me too much of a hand-me-down Gradius feeling.
EoSD is a fine place to start, it's just "bare" compared to later games that have gimmicks. Honestly for someone just starting out I'd recommend it or PCB.
Just make sure you grab the v-sync patch if the input delay feels unbearable.
What's with these casual shitters thinking that their opinion matters when it comes to difficulty?
UFO is objectively a shit game. Any legitimately good player will tell you that.
The resource collecting isn't hard in the slightest. In fact, it makes the game even more casual since you've got UFO's clearing the screen for you every few seconds. You literally don't have to dodge shit thanks to the UFO's acting as a crutch.
Meanwhile, players that aren't garbage go through the game without collecting UFO's at all, and even then, it's still piss easy because the patterns are laughable. There's no density at all, and the bullet movement speed is at an all time low.
We have faggots like this guy calling other players casuals, then immediately goes on about how difficult he finds it to perform a simple task like collecting UFO's.
Do you even have a single clear in the game that matters? Or did you clear on some irrelevant difficulty setting while spamming bombs and abusing UFO's clearing the screen of any danger for you and then think that this gives you the right to run your mouth about difficulty, which quite frankly is a subject you clearly have no clue about?
There's a reason why UFO is bottom of the barrel in terms of Touhou game popularity, and that's because it's dog shit. Plain and simple.
Some of the easiest stage 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6 bosses.
Shou is mid tier, probably around the 3rd or 4th hardest stage 5 boss.
Laughably easy stages, which are made easier if you actually need to collect UFO's since they double as a free screen clear.
Uninteresting characters besides Nazrin.
Shit music besides Emotional Skyscraper and the stage 4 theme.
Speaking of which, the stage 4 section of UFO is literally one of the only things it did well. That stage remains fun as fuck, especially to perfect pacify.
To bad Murasa ruins it by being a disappointingly bad boss.
To summarize :-
Don't talk about difficulty unless you, at minimum, can beat all of the games without using bombs.
Fucking casual shitters. Holy fuck.
As a casual, I hate UFO. I hate SA even more though, because at least UFO didn't have shitty shot types.
BUT HEY WHAT THE FUCK DO I KNOW I PLAY ON NORMAL
You know pretty well, SA has garbage as hell shot types in ZUN's attempt to make them represent characters. At least in IN they were minimal stuff but he really took it to another level in SA. Probably some of the worst in the series.
Apologies if this is a dumb question, but I'm kind of new to these threads; is the Sasami poster a regular troll here?
Nah, 11 is great. You just have to learn how to play with each shot type, since there's a lot more variation, and in general a lot more interesting stuff going on than in 12. (Well, that said, Alice is a bit shit no matter how you slice it.)
I don't know, I found most of UFO's shot types rather underwhelming.
Reimu A is just a generic needle shot, there's pretty much nothing to say about it.
Reimu B kind of sucks in this game, as UFOs confuse it. This isn't so noticeable normally, but it makes the Nue fight in Extra more annoying that it needs to be.
Marisa A is alright, but it has the low of range of Magic Missiles combined with the lower power of Illusion Laser. I mean I can't hate it, it's the last time Marisa gets a piercing shot, and it's by no means bad (it's actually my favorite shot to use of the 6), but it's not as fun to use as, say, PCB's laser shot.
Marisa B needs full power to do any real damage, in a game where you lose 1/4 max power every time you die. It's not fun. Another issue with her is that her bomb animation actually lasts longer than the invincibility she gets from bombing, and unless you have a bomb like MarisaB in DDC, that's just plain bad design.
Sanae A is actually pretty interesting. Her homing almost seems to work better than Reimu's in this game, for some reason, and her bomb does its job.
Sanae B is a shot type that's pretty much carried by it's stupidly over powered bomb. There's not much to like about it, it's just another shot type where you need to shotgun, and it happens to have AoE I suppose.
Not him but even thought i think Ten desires stages 2,3 and 5 are kind of underwhelming, stage 6 and extra make up for it. True administrator is one of the few songs that sound like a boss battle without being too melancholic.
Trance is a terrible mechanic thought.
yeah he always hates on UFO lol this isn't new. I know him and this is definitely him btw
with that said, this ended up hilariously with someone being baited into saying "post your scores" to a world record holder
I think they meant it in the sense that 12's shot types are relatively consistent and easy to use, compared to 11's which were very gimmicky, and hit-or-miss in terms of power. I can see why 12's would feel underwhelming, because they're all pretty standard except for Super Shortwave, which isn't that good. However, it's still better than Alice's useless, weak shot with its useless, weak bomb.
This. I preffer usable shot types. UFO and EoSD had the most consistent shot types in the windows era in my opinion. The only gimmicky shot type that i enjoyed using is TD Youmu.
That's fair. I mean UFO does have solid shot types, but I've always thought that there were games that did shot types that were both more fun, and just as balanced, like DDC and MoF.
>However, it's still better than Alice's useless, weak shot with its useless, weak bomb.
In Alice's defense, the solo shot types were just put in as a bonus, they were never meant to be balanced. Some of them ended up being god tier as a result (solo Youmu), while some of them ended up being complete trash (solo Sakuya). The shot types of IN are more balanced if you just look at the Teams.
I think PCB had more enjoyable and solid shot types overall than either, to be honest.
>I think PCB had more enjoyable and solid shot types overall than either, to be honest.
How so? Both Reimu's shot types are super slow compared to most games and Sakuya gets two free bombs for no reason at all.
This is the worst opinion I've ever seen. Both stage 5 musics are incredible. The fucking 11/4 meter signature in the 5th stage theme is beautifully weaved, undoubtedly the best 11 beat song I've ever heard. The murasa and kogasa songs are really well done. You can't take any issue with fires of hokkai or emotional skyscraper unless you are mentally ill. Ufo romance (ex theme) should grow on any well adjusted person as a fun song, and nue's theme and ichirin's theme are both weird and catchy.
Nazrin's is a little ehh. I'll give you that. But it's one of the best stage 1 boss themes, besides seiran.
SA > IN > PCB > TD > PoFV > MoF > EoSD > DDC > UFO
Only the 4/5/EX stage themes and 6/EX boss themes were good. The rest are garbage, with everything before the fourth stage being especially bad.
DDC can be summarized as sitting on top of the PoC and bombing. At least TD's hyper system was fun.
Thanks for the link, but remapping keys is not the issue for me.
For the longest time I played with a WASD, LShift for focus, Space for bomb,
mouse button 4 for shootscheme. It's pretty neat but evidently tapping Shift is still difficult with my little finger, so on a whim I've decided to adopt completely the standard controls scheme, especially seeing as it's the one most people use. It's a bit rough right now but at the same time oddly comfortable, so I'm motivated to continue.
Oh, so you're doing it on purpose and finding it hard to adapt.
Nevermind the link, then. And good luck, I was NEVER able to get used to the default control scheme, and I tried as hard as I could.
Oh, that explains it. You dont like stage 6 theme, so you're braindead. That's why you have no appreciation for good music.
I bet you like un owen was her, or candid friend, or some normie garbage like that you fucking idiot. Stop wasting my time.
>Nevermind the link, then.
I'm giving it a month really. If I'll still suck mightily by then, I'll go back to WASD and just remap Shift.
Right now I'm playing through Shoot the Bullet for the second time, trying to cap all the scenes. One of my favourite games.
>DDC can be summarized as sitting on top of the PoC and bombing
Uh that's a pretty terrible trivialized argument
>TD can be summarized as spamming C and bombing
>TD's hyper system was fun
I sure as hell didn't find fun trance activating automatically after missing in a nonspell ruining my chances of capturing the next spellcard.
Not him but "UN owen was her" was musically good, thought. It uses a lot of key drops and scale changes plus it takes advantage of some instruments that ZUN rarely uses like the violin. I agree with candid friend, i don't know why people like it that much.
All right /jp/, I finally did it. It was one of the most unfun and painful time I ever experienced in a game, I fucking hate StB.
Well done, though in my case I actually enjoyed the scene and I still go back to it sometimes.
That may be difficult or not. It took me 2700 photos to clear 9-6, but about 200 to clear that one, and then I did it again 100 shots later.
I actually thought that the different bomb amounts was clever. Sakuya has shitty bombs, so she gets more of them.
Marisa gets less bombs, but the bombs she has are fantastic. I understand why they didn't come back of course.
>Both Reimu's shot types are super slow compared to most games
That might be a personal thing, because I've never noticed it. Granted, I typically use Marisa.
Kek, how does someone even suck this much?
>the solo shot types were just put in as a bonus
No, I meant from 11; Rainbow Wire and Remote Sacrifice.
At least Nitori had a powerful, if unwieldy, shot, and a bomb that could really save your ass despite doing no damage. Alice's whole thing was "but you get eight options/bombs!", except they were so much shittier than everyone else's that it didn't even matter.
Personally, I don't feel I've truly cleared a game until I've done so with every shot type; it proves a bit more to myself that I've actually learned something. Of course, I still rely on bombs either way, so that's kind of arbitrary.
You're right though, Patche's is the best. You can get so cheeky with the backwards shot, it's ridiculous.
That's fair enough. I balance my secondary addiction to Touhou with actually playing the games, so I simply play them on terms I consider minimally satisfactory--mostly just 1cc's as a single preferred shot type.
>At least Nitori had a powerful, if unwieldy, shot
Are we playing the same game? Nitori has one of the weakest shots in the game, only out damaging Patchouli at a long range, and maybe Suika.
Alice, if I'm not mistaken, is the second most powerful shot in the game, sheer damage-wise.
The wiki doesn't seem to have any exact damage numbers for 11. Maybe it's just a psychological thing, that the missiles feel more powerful. In any case, while Alice's total damage output might be good at full power, it's impossible or at least impractical to get all the shots lined up on a boss, and for crowd control the individual shots are weak as hell.
Whenever someone asks what the easiest or hardest game is, it always triggers my autism when they don't state the context, such as "easiest to 1cc" or "easiest to start to learn scoring for", etc.
PCB is one of the easier 1ccs.
>people have different opinions
>of a niche jap game
>they must be braindead
I don't even like U.N. Owen was her or Candid Friend, but this is pitiful behavior.
Crawl back to whatever shit board you came from. The /jp/ posters are a lot nicer, and they call "normies" secondaries.
Post you're favorite ZUN music CD album.
Pic related, also Magical Astronomy.
Ok, listening to owen again, that is valid. But i bet he likes it because its memetastic, not because it has good musical design.
If he appreciated creative music he would have liked ichirin's theme, which is weird and cool as fuck and still comes out with a proper tone.
I bet you listen to indie rock, kid. Go back to /mu/. Or if you're up to it, give a good composer a try, since there's a chance anyone might do something good for themselves for a change.
Ah, sorry. I'm not totally into the ettiquette yet. I'm from /v/ mostly so I'm used to being a complete arrogant dickhole about every small issue and expecting that of others.
Could you be any more pretentious. If you bothered to read the rest of the post, you'd know the context is for a 1cc, but instead you decide to blow your aspie gasket because of your ego over MUH SCORES.
Good question. I usually play whichever games I feel like playing, but the ones I'm currently focusing on are EoSD and PCB, where I get to stage 5/6 on one credit. But after a while playing, it just becomes a battle with myself, as just one stupid mistake gets my motivation to rock bottom.
Did a normal clear of th7 on arrow keys instead of WASD. My ability to see and control patterns is more than enough but execution is rubbish unless I go for the simplest routes possible. It made me realise how inefficient my go-to routes with WASD can sometimes get though.
I'm in pretty much the same situation on Hard, and got so discouraged I haven't played in almost two weeks. Don't be like me. Keep at it!
>can't 1cc any game on normal even after playing the games for a year
>Stage 3 and beyond, IN spellcards not comfy
>doesn't technically count
>everything after kappa
>Stage 5, if not Orin
>UFO is comfy on spellcards but I'm so autistic I've restarted stage 1 and 2 over any small mistake on UFOs/deaths
>lose traction on zombie bitch, die a lot on double team, can't get off futo's boat, die often to miko's danmaku washing machine
>can't make it past wolfgirl's stage
At least ISC is fun.
As a fellow scrub, maybe I can help. For starters, it sounds like you need to pick one game and stick with it. Also, you'll never get anywhere with that kind of defeatist attitude.
If you can get through Patche without complaints, you should be able to beat Sakuya as well, and then Remi is one of the easiest final bosses.
The Prismrivers really aren't bad once you learn how to fight them, although they're harder with Sakuya. Unfortunately, Youmu and Yuyuko are among the hardest stage 5 and 6 bosses.
A lot of the spell cards in 8 seem scary, but most of them are actually simple once you know how. Stage 4 is probably the hardest part, at least on Normal.
For 10, just don't be afraid of bombing. Stage 4 is a pain in the ass, but Aya and Sanae are pushovers.
Rin and her stage are disproportionately hard compared to the rest of 11, so if you can get over that hump then you'll be fine, since Okuu is more theatrical than difficult.
It sounds like you know what your problem with 12 is, so I don't know what you're waiting for.
Learn how to take care of Yoshika and Futo since they're relatively easy, then just manage your resources well for Seiga and Miko. Use trance strategically instead of waiting until you die.
14 requires you to play a bit differently than usual, so get used to bombing more, especially to auto-collect into life pieces. Whatever you do, don't hoard bombs. If you play as a B character, the stage 4 boss is much easier, and then you just have to worry about Seija, who's actually not that bad, and Shinmyoumaru, who actually might be the most difficult final boss.
In general, keep playing through mistakes rather than giving up, and watch replays for fights you have trouble with. I barely play video games, and had basically never played a shmup until about a year ago, yet 1cc'd every game on Normal within nine months. You can do it!
I'd suggest watching YouTube videos, there are some perfect normal clears out there as well as all the videos of perfect lunatic and stuff.
Then just practice the stages you have trouble with, that's really all you can do.
i remeber looking at a website that basically explained every spellcard for each character of eosd (and possible the other 2hus) and gave hints on how to beat them.
might have had a yellow background, not sure about that one though.
can anyone help?
I religiously played 12 because I was comfortable with it the most. I'm utter shit at the gimmick but every time I try and play I just fuck it all up early on.
I spent several hours fucking up stages 1 and 2 one day, not because I don't know what I'm doing by now but that's just my shitty ability to play bullet hell.
To supplement this:
Have a laugh at my expense I don't even give a shit anymore. This never happened to me in any other playthroughs but when this shit happens this early on it's time to stop fucking playing. I don't care how retarded this shitty replay makes me look for resetting over the dumbest shit because I already know that with my incredibly ass skill I would never make it past stage 5, maybe even 4. I spent a month playing this shit and quite frankly I'm tired of losing all my lives in stage 4 or 5 because I didn't grab the one red UFO in the beginning so I was off by one fucking life shard.
Furthermore I had one good run and it was utterly ruined in stage 5 because Reimu's fat armpit space sucked in blue UFOs despite trying to get away from them. No I'm not using SanaeB because her fucking toads ruin any sort of accuracy I need for handling UFOs.
I am an underskilled autistic object, and that's all there is to it. I don't care about "defeatist attitude" bullshit, I'm being realistic. If I was actually defeatist I would stop trying altogether.
I just finally got up the gumption to get a normal clear in LoLK. Jesus christ I still barely get past Doremi on extra though the stage is so long i've yet to see Heca-T despite clearing 3 ex bosses before.
Apparently Marisa is hard to use in LoLK though? I just picked her because her outfit was best this game.
I managed to beat LoLK on Pointdevice on Easy twice, once with Reimu and once with the Earth Rabbit girl. Got to Junko again with Marisa but had no spell cards so I couldn't get past Pure Bullet Hell. Given that it's my first real experience with 2hu and shmups in general besides a little bit of time with 6 I'm kinda satisfied.
The replay only lasted like 15 seconds so I was kind of confused and thought you uploaded the wrong one, but I see what happened now. I want to hug anons who are struggling with 2hu.
All of Marisa's shots are good. C can be downright unfair against bosses, and for stages you can mostly just leave the options to one side and manually shoot down stuff on the other. Reimu A and B are both fine, but C is really unwieldy. Also, Reimu makes the spell card Mountain of Faith harder because of her movement speed, if you care about that.
Am I supposed to find 2hu boring to play when I'm first starting out? I've gotten to Stage 4 in Imperishable Night on normal without needing to continue, but I don't find the game interesting or engaging at all. I tried the game out on hard and only made it to the stage 2 boss before needing to continue, and even on the harder difficulty wasn't really any more fun for me. is this genre just not for me something? I'm not getting agravated or anything like that when I play the game, I just kind of feel bored whenever I try these games.
of course putting in a single credit and flailing around isn't going to be very engaging, hte interesting part is when you try to learn the game and 1cc it (or reach whatever goal you set for you)
Most of the Touhou games are pretty similar, so yeah, they might be not for you if you don't enjoy dodging bullets. Still, if you really want to try everything to see what sticks, then PoFV, StB, FW each have rather distinct gameplay, though still based on dodging bullets.
I think the main appeal of the games is that they are very accessible to anyone who likes a challenge and allow for goals that constantly increase in difficulty up to a level that's beyond human capabilities
stuff like that only becomes a problem when you feel like you want to play a shmup but hate every single one you have tried. add a desire to let everybody know about that and you get the recipe for pure obnoxiousness, though.
I did, I just didn't feel like sharing it because I know most of my mistakes are around not knowing when I need to bomb until it's too late, and mostly poor UFO management that I can't seem to get down. I started with SA so I have a problem with remembering that bombing is an option. I just have problems because when I start bombing I really don't like stopping bombing which makes me reliant on them.
More of my issues lie in practice though because I ragequit my touhous all the time for at least a few days since I can feel my progress go backwards. Managing my anger is more of an exercise than playing the game.
Also this is a slightly old replay so it's not as accurate. I've relented on bombing until I reach Ichirin's boss fight. I can't bring myself to record a fresh one because I haven't gotten that far in a while due to my ragequits and I can't concentrate right now to make a new one.
it's pretty okay until Shou. Full lives going into Murasa's fight! On Shou you proceed to die over 9000 times with bombs in stock on every spell card, then fuck up Byakuren's stage and die. I guess you already know your own problems, but in particular to me it seemed like you were constantly afraid of stages and didn't really understand what was going on at any given time, only haphazardly getting out of of the way of some bullets and sometimes randomly grabbing UFOs. My advice is to understand how stages really work, how danmaku is launched etc., and acquire a tighter route for UFOs. You also need to practice Shou because that fight was a disaster. Before Byakuren, learn the route that gets you a ton of bombs so you can bomb through nearly all of her hard stuff.
Stage 5 is strange for me because I can't see shit and panic. I think that was the second time I got to Shou on normal due to my ragequitting habits trying to understand the early game.
I have no idea what you're talking about by the rest though, bomb route? UFO route? I just try and grab reds or RGBs if reds aren't going to be in good supply. I thought green UFOs were shit.
Stage 6 gives you a disproportionate amount of green UFOs so it's possible to get something like 6 or 7 of them. That's enough to bomb the hell out of byaks at least until her final spell card.
Oh, well fuck.
I already kinda cleared it with continues after that replay, stuck with the default 2 lives 2 bombs, even without that bomb route.
I think the most I might need is improvement on Shou and her stage, namely to remember my bomb button exists.
>get first SA 1cc
>on stage 6 it shows me fail on utsuhos first spell card
how the fuck does this even happen
Replay desync. You have to start watching the replay from the previous stage, I think. It might have something to do with not using ctrl to fast-forward through the replay, but it's probably the first solution that I mentioned.
On that note, does anybody know how to stop PoFV from crashing right before the end-credits start, after 1ccing?
>Isn't that common sense?
You can't let yourself be held back by common sense in Gensokyo.
holy shit junko is so fuckinh shit her all spelcards are fucking shit that first one is literaly "you have to press left or right once" second is fuck you lasers that bend in way to just go through you her bgm is fucking worst shit ever it sound like some pokemon music from ruby remake also her ingame sprite is fucking shit what is she fucking bouncing her head while making jesus-in-brasil pose? her all spelcards arent about skill they are about wow die 3 times to see what to do and then you will still die 99+ times because rng memes and some bulet or meme bending laser will hit you
also her last spellcard is pure shit like you can just bomb in last phase and you make that bitch explode
thanks for playing
special thanks to
junko gets my worse than byakuren award
>is she fucking bouncing her head while making jesus-in-brasil pose
Okay, I had a hearty lugh.
>also her last spellcard is pure shit like you can just bomb in last phase and you make that bitch explode
I bet you also can't into Scarlet Gensokyo.
>worse than byakuren
Calm down and reflect on what you've said.
Are there any super clear ways of doing netplay for PoFV? My friend and I seem to be following the
I already was at Red Magic and one stupid mistake. I don't believe it.
sentiments to that effect are of no value because you can get through everything if you keep trying
I've only ever seen people stuck because they refuse to try harder for whatever reason or excuse they had, from "where I'm at is good enough" to "I hate these games anyway"
>you can get through everything if you keep trying
Don't be so sure about that. I've been trying for a while now to make progress on Hard, but it feels like I'm just banging my head against a wall at this point because I've hit the limits of my shitty reaction time. When something like that happens, you might as well be happy with how far you've come, even if you can't go any farther.
That said, >>14714594, I'm sure you can clear them on Normal. Out of curiosity, how long have you been trying?
>shitty reaction time
I actually invite you to take this test:
and see whether your reaction time is that bad. If it's 280 ms, it's literally average, and less than 240 is above average.
If you can't clear Hard, most of that isn't really due to a slightly slower reaction time, in any case. You need to understand how bosses and bullet patterns in themselves function so you can do them efficiently, and bomb the patterns on which you have a low success rate. Blaming your reaction time is misguided, unless you're actually disabled.
I'm optimistic about the average human's potential, at least. I used to feel like absolute shit at danmaku last year, now I'm clearing lunatic modes and actually thinking of stepping up my game since 1cc's are boring and I feel like I can do better.
I've been trying to normal 1cc games over the course of the year myself. I'm only confident in one particular game after weighing my options. The rest I'm just abysmal at. Like, I can't even clear MoF and PCB on easy but I can handle any other game on the same tutorial difficulty. I just feel like my entire experience with the series is backwards. Yes I've tried EoSD but I do not understand Sakuya's cards even after watching replays.
It probably doesn't help I'm shit at memorizing smaller things and I go full retard in anything where I'm surrounded by clouds of bullets at all sides. Even with all that practice I still have anxiety issues and just stop thinking in the middle of a pattern and end up wasting a bomb. No idea how to quell that because it happens in other games too.
Can you tell me what spellcard are you having trouble with? As a fellow scrub maybe I can help.
>and end up wasting a bomb
Sometimes I use a bomb in the middle of nothing just because I pressed the button too hard. I think no bomb is wasted, it's always better to bomb.
Well it's not so much a particular spellcard as it is the pattern those spellcards give.
Like, Yuugi's first(?) card where she just goes "lol fuck it" and sends those chains of bullets that go every direction. Those clouds where there's bullets going everywhere instead of a general direction either fuck me up or make me use a bomb.
Maybe it's a bit silly but I'd like to actually be able to dodge all spellcards instead of cheesing them with a bomb, despite my inability to even 1cc normal games. I think it helps my odds in doing a 1cc if I can conserve resources as much as possible.
>Yes I've tried EoSD but I do not understand Sakuya's cards even after watching replays.
There's a lot of RNG involved, so only need to understand a detail or two in each, like, which bullets are actually directed at you and how they can be therefore misdirected. If you've seen replays, you can ape the execution you see in them, that should be enough.
>memorizing smaller things
You at least need to remember, or "develop a feel for" the ways bullets in danmaku usually behave so you can improvise on most stuff. You don't have to memorise everything in a game, just the tricky patterns.
>I go full retard in anything where I'm surrounded by clouds of bullets at all sides.
Keeping your head cool at all times is unfortunately a skill you need to develop, and is something even superplayers struggle with. That said, you should be able to prevent most such situations, and bomb on the rest of them.
>Maybe it's a bit silly but I'd like to actually be able to dodge all spellcards instead of cheesing them with a bomb, despite my inability to even 1cc normal games.
In my experience people (beginners) with this sentiment usually can't 1cc anything indeed. It's normal not to have 100% success rate on everything unless you're willing to put in a LOT of time.
Now that's a bad mentality to have. I know because I used to have it too.
The key to conserve your resources is NOT to try and fail to overreach. The key to conserve your resources is to keep trying, identify which stage patterns or boss attacks give you the MOST trouble and save your bombs exclusively for those (and for deathbombs, of course).
It's not so much that I expect every run to be absolutely perfect so much as I'd just like to understand how to dodge all the spellcards and have a better idea of when I'm fucked in those cards enough to bomb.
I know it's impossible to be perfect in my case and I'd just like to normal 1cc any game. Plus it'd make me less susceptible to "oh shit where did my character go in this light show" due to the knowledge/practice. Those cards I'm bad at always fuck me up and take resources that I need later on and it gimps me beyond belief.
This one? Staying at the bottom and slowly going up works for me, but just bomb it if you think you can't capture it.
>Maybe it's a bit silly but I'd like to actually be able to dodge all spellcards instead of cheesing them with a bomb, despite my inability to even 1cc normal games. I think it helps my odds in doing a 1cc if I can conserve resources as much as possible.
That's pretty hard, there's a reason why bombs exist. And no, don't conserve your resources at all. Use all of your bombs, specially if you're facing a hard pattern for you. That way you'll be doing 1ccs in no time.
Stick with EoSD and play with 2 lives or less, that way you'll learn to use your bombs well.
>I'd just like to understand how to dodge all the spellcards and have a better idea of when I'm fucked in those cards enough to bomb.
Get SpoilerAL, freeze the timer and just grind the spellcard until you're able to survive for a very very long time. If that's not enough play on >60fps.
Well you see, understanding a spell card doesn't equal being consistent at capturing it. The execution can still be difficult. Sometimes having an understanding really means that understanding is impossible because the pattern is based predominantly on RNG, so you just need to dodge.
Anyway, you need to go and play, and play every day, else there's no chance of you getting good.
Its not too bad dude, just manage your power
pic related is my first MoF 1cc I got fairly recently
I do play every day I just get pissed off because I get either interrupted because of real life circumstances or I just plain suck hard enough. I'm at my wit's end here. I absolutely loathe my failures now because I should have this shit down by now. It's not like I have a bad reaction time or anything either I'm just fed up with losing.
I'm trying really hard not to lose but the temptation to take a vacation from it and do something else gets worse every day. I've been at this for six months.
Haven't you noticed that each time you get farther? That means you've improved. I remember the first time I played I used up all my continues on Patchouli on easy, and now I can 1cc the game on normal.
No, I've been practicing normal for six months. The other part of my year was on/off easy mode.
I haven't gotten anywhere since and I keep screwing up at the beginning making me do an absurd amount of retries. My skill has diminished because I die to things I never died to months before right now. I have no excuses other than incompetence as a base.
I've already posted my replays and sought advice earlier. I'm the faggot who can't beat UFO for his life.
And yes I did adhere to the advice, I practiced for four hours on stage 5, after watching a lunatic 1cc playthrough a few times to ensure I could get the gist of the UFO spawns. Then I turn around and flub every bit at the beginning, I even died to nazrin's pendulum when I had no reason to during one of my tries.
Personaly I really hate her timeout spell, part because remind me the last phase of pc-98 strages and the trauma/ nostalgia over and over, but the lilies was fun as hell, really liked it
I actually did get a decent score there... however, maybe I phrased that wrong originally. It's not that my raw reaction time is bad, but that my ability to think and make the right decision at those speeds is atrocious. Like, if that test were 'click if it changes to green, but not when it changes to yellow', I'd be fucked. That's why I failed ''My Way is Truly That of Heaven" hundreds of times. When shit comes at me any faster than it does on Normal, I just don't have the capacity to make decisions. Is that even something that can be learned?
Those bullets won't spawn on top of you, so you can take out a good chunk right off the bat.
>I even died to nazrin's pendulum when I had no reason to during one of my tries
And I bet you restarted the game then.
You sound like you need to play a simpler game, one that you have don't have to worry about anything but dodging. Forget about UFO or SA for now, and just finish the 3 first window games, specially EoSD.
Playing on 90fps definitely helps with your decision making and reaction time.
I would restart if I died on the first or second boss regardless of the iteration. On the topic of EoSD I just don't find it fun to play from how raw it feels. IN was the most overwhelming game and I couldn't even bomb through it with 7 lives due to stage 4 and onwards, and PCB has the prismfucker sisters and youmu. I'm at least confident enough in UFO that I can do it, regardless of the ridiculous gimmick. I know I can if I just get it right, I can't say the same about the rest.
Have you used practice mode at all? I'm thinking for 8 in particular; stage 5 really isn't bad at all, and nor are most of Reisen's cards. If you can practice enough to get used to it, then you'll have time to regroup and take a bit of a breather during your real runs even if you fuck up stage 4.
Also, you can try playing as one of the teams that fights Reimu, since her fight is a fair bit easier than Marisa's. And 8 has that annoying mechanic where death-bombing costs you double, so if you've been doing that a lot, try to be more proactive about bombing instead.
Of course, practice mode in general is helpful, especially if you're having that much trouble.
For starters, >>14715304 is absolutely right. Not only that, but you won't even get to see a good ending on Easy, so why bother?
Two months is nothing. It took me about six months to get my first Normal 1cc, starting from scratch. Don't start despairing yet, just keep at it. And rather than simply venting that you're stuck, you can try asking about specific cards you're having trouble with, or watch annotated replays.
Yeah I tried to take advantage of fighting Reimu instead but got obliterated on stage 6 regardless. The funny thing is that I know that stage 5 and 6 aren't supposed to be that hard but for some god-forsaken reason Reisen just whips me. I have trouble with the most bizarre shit, it took me several tries to get through friggin' Cirno.
I feel like IN is the most forgiving game because you can die at least once on every stage and still clear it. Plus you got the death bombing mechanic that makes you save a lot of lives. Reisen is just a bunch of gimmicks that once you know them it's really easy to beat her and capture everything.
Yeah I know what her gimmicks are and a general idea of how to do them it's just I'm shit at execution. I'm the idiot who stops thinking and just runs into a bullet sometimes.
I actually hate the death bombing mechanic for the same reason that >>14718463 said. It doesn't feel like the rest in the series at all and it just takes up more resources. So I end up using bombs much earlier than I have any right to out of worrying I'll use two of them instead. Logically two possibly useless bombs would be worse than just one useful bomb that takes up another bomb.
Besides thanks to the danmaku in both the stage and the bosses, I start dying around stage 3 and that only ramps up in 4. I have so many issues comprehending IN due to the familiars and such that I get my ass kicked.
>Yeah I know what her gimmicks are and a general idea of how to do them it's just I'm shit at execution. I'm the idiot who stops thinking and just runs into a bullet sometimes.
Just like me.
IN gives you so many lives that I swear it's hard to not clear the game. Just look at this extremely shitty replay I just created, and it's my second time against Kaguya by the way.
>I start dying around stage 3
That's pretty bad. I don't mean to be insulting, but really, stage 3 is piss easy. If you're having trouble there, it must mean that you really don't understand what's going on. Try to remember where the enemies come from and stay on top of shooting them down, and take advantage of familiars to cancel the majority of the bullets (that is, stay focused more often than not).
Nice. If you can do that, the other two first-gen games will be no problem. Go get 'em!
You should forget about thar malice cannon thing, it's only going to get you killed at this stage. Don't move so much, if a bullet is not going to hit you then don't move because if you do another one will. Only move if you see a path, and move fast before it closes. Dodge preemptively, before they go near you, and dodge the faster bullets first.
If you want to get good fast, try capturing at least once almost every card in spellpractice at 90fps, even if takes over a hundred tries.
I always get killed if I don't move though. I keep moving because then I start getting comfortable with that and I stop focusing on bullets. I don't know how to sit still without going numb-minded.
Yes but if I stop moving I get comfortable just sitting there that's the problem. I start blanking out and I don't know how to prevent it aside from moving all hair trigger. I also tend to misread things like historygirl's first spellcard(I think? Most of her spells/nonspells look similar to me).
I tried again with scarlet team but got destroyed again. I really don't want to fight Marisa by using border team.
Lunatic is very different from just 90fps. The bullets are so fast that you won't be able to dodge them as usual, you have to dodge before they get close to you. I was doing piss poor too before I did this.
Okay, so I have it downloaded and set up with the th ssg file things but I have no idea how to actually use it. All of the discussion for it seems to be either moonrunes or a lot of technical stuff.
I've only been able to clear one game and that's LoLK on Easy Pointdevice as Reimu and Reisen with a Sanae one on Clownpiece and a Marisa one on Junko
which I'm going to restart because I have no bombs and can't clear Pure Bullet Hell without at least one
How fucked am I if I try to play any other? Is it even worth a shot?
I use spoileral just for freezing the timers for (non)spells（時間減らない） and making me invincible（無敵）. Assuming it already has been set up, open touhou, select practice stage and then pause the game. Open spoileral, select the game and then click the text that show the version, a bunch of options will show. When you're ready just unpause the game.
If you want to change the framerate just open vpatch.ini and change GameFPS to 90. You should have vpatch installed before doing that.
LoLK isn't a standard touhou game, despite it being mainline. You played on pointdevice mode to boot, legacy mode is more accurate to touhou. LoLK also has a bullshit difficulty, especially if you cannot 1cc a normal touhou game, maybe even on hard difficulty.
Yeah that's just a consequence from playing later games first. I started with SA myself so I know the feeling.
Earlier windows games will help the most with learning the basics, later games add more things to do. Try out all of them and see which one clicks, I do suggest extensively trying the earlier ones so you can get a grip on those basics.
Since you played on pointdevice mode I'm inclined to suggest that you focus on being more willing to use bombs, since dying refills up to two of them. Dying with bombs is a waste. I'm still struggling with it myself but it is very important.
If you want a good idea of how often you'll be using bombs, try and compare how often you died trying to capture scenes in LoLK.
Now picture that if you had disposable bombs and lives instead of resets.
Might not be accurate because you get to continue when you die/bomb, but it helps knowing how much trouble you have on particular scenes.