>>14681175 I dislike Kancolle because it's a huge cashgrab made by huge companies who don't give a shit about making something good or interesting or fun; it makes otaku look like retards who would eat up anything as long as it had generic sluts or cute girls, it's basically the maximum expression of exclusive pure pandering and they don't try to hide it. The game itself is a shitty browser game and boring as shit, shilling on 2ch and buying of doujin artists by KadokawaDMM were suspected since the start, and to top it off it's pro-Abe revisionist propaganda since they know modern otaku wet their pants over that shit. It's literally the embodiment of everything wrong with modern otaku culture and I can't stand looking at it.
>>14681175 >>14686521 frankly imo kancolle, or before it the idol series, is a approach to otaku culture from the perspective of businessmen, i.e, "otaku" allowing huge profit margins from such vapid concepts.
I am not saying that shallow pandering is a new phenomenon. It has always existed, in the form of numerous ecchi/rom-com products in the past. However, one can argue that at least the authors of those series were more or less passionate about their creations. I cannot say the same thing about these current trends.
We are witnessing history in the making here. In 10-20 years, we will look back to the 2010s and remember this decade as one with the cashgrab generic girls. Assuming people pulled their heads out of the sand and realized they are contributing to the downfall of their own hobby culture. Most likely not, and we just have to accept that it's only going downhill from here.
>>14687133 What he posted was correct though. Otaku culture used to be produced mainly by people who cared about the hobby itself. Doujinshi, music, eroge, games, all produced by smaller groups who wanted to share their passion with like-minded people. Now everything is made just to be a cash-in to appeal to niwaka who will fork up money for anything no matter how bad it is because it has slightly lewd art or something. Newer otaku media is almost 100% about making money, you can tell a lot of the creators don't give a shit about anything other than shoveling out merchandise every season.
>>14687296 Stop being so pretentious, nearly all forms of entertainment with the exception of doujin goods are made purely with the idea of making money and always have been to say otherwise is naive, even back then eroge, games, anime and music had to get greenlit. Besides to say creators don't care about their creations just because of that is stupid, the two aren't mutually exclusive.
>>14687366 I didn't mean to come off as pretentious. But can you really say stuff like Kancolle and Touken Ranbu weren't meant to be cheap cash-ins? And it's a different thing to make money off something you made vs making something just to make money, obviously Kancolle in the latter. You can tell when the creators put their heart into what they're making, you can't say that for soulless formulaic browser game garbage.
>>14687390 Why are you trying so hard to save touhou? Get over yourself and quit attacking low production browser games that made it big. They're both easy to play and more accessible. You act like there's something wrong with using appeal on your products in first place. You're so bitter trying to redefine otaku culture just because you're getting old
>>14687425 What? I don't even care about 2hu anymore, man. I'm just saying this browser game and mobile game shit is some of laziest stuff. Just look at what's happening to the game industry, a lot of makers want to focus on mobile games now. I don't want to live in a future where regular games become outnumbered by mobile stuff just because it's easy. Same thing with otaku culture. If everything becomes a Kancolle-tier cash-in there won't be anything good left.
>>14687390 I'm sure the artists care about the ships they've drawn, I mean just look at Humikane and the ships he drew. Look at the performances the VAs give. I get your point but I think you're being a bit too negative about it as a whole, even if something is a cashgrab it's a bit harsh to dismiss the whole thing as such, games and such aren't created purely by CEOs and suits even if they are the driving force behind things.
>>14687390 Tanaka had a vision for a warship girls game and he got one, one whose success surpassed everyone's wildest expectations. I think that on some level he must have put his heart into the idea.
I'm just not sure if he thought it through beyond that given that the franchise feels like a shell. People bash on Touhou secondaries for treating the girls like shells onto which you can project anything you want, but for Kancolle that's basically all there is.
>>14687439 Honestly KanColle and Touken Ranbu are some of the far less lazy and generic browser/mobile games and they're far less "freemium" than others (KanColle doesn't even have a premium currency only Gacha, no clue about Touken Ranbu), nor did they really start the mobile game=lots of money hype. That would probably be Cinderella Girls which turned out to be pretty good when they finally gave the characters more depth through CDs and such.
>>14687495 >People bash on Touhou secondaries for treating the girls like shells onto which you can project anything you want, but for Kancolle that's basically all there is.
That's pretty much the case for all mobage/doujin based games until they get enough additional material, unfortunately DMM have done a complete shit job at handling KanColle as a franchise, I guess it exploded far too fast for them to handle and plan.
That aside I still like the girls and there's enough of a personality through game lines to make them a complete shell, I mean before ZUN expanded characters properly with symposium of post-mysticism and such it was the same case. It's just a shame in the case of KanColle all the side material is all over the place and that.
>>14687507 You're on the same boat as these people crying that their favorite company left tripleA and blaming all your problems on browser games/mobile games. The other idiots just try to pitch that story and character development is important in a videogame when most artists just play, draw a 4koma on their experience, then post it on twitter. There's no story needed and they shouldn't have to be ashamed that the game they play has pretty characters in it
>>14687523 >That's pretty much the case for all mobage/doujin based games until they get enough additional material, unfortunately DMM have done a complete shit job at handling KanColle as a franchise, I guess it exploded far too fast for them to handle and plan. It is pretty fucking incoherent overall, even their single flagship animation didn't seem like a unified work. It feels like they never had a plan beyond letting everyone (including all their contracted writers) just blacktewi.jpg it and do whatever.
I guess in some sense letting everyone do what they want, and what almost feels like "doujinshi for the masses" by commissioning multitudes of anthology books isn't inherently anything to bash on them about, but it does seem like a mess. (Lots of series have these anthology books but I think Combined Fleet Girls Collection had much more than is typical.)
>>14687605 Except that Touhou does have canon material, since ZUN made them or overlooked their development enough to put his stamp on. KanColle only has two products that can say such a thing, since it's only the anime and the Vita game that had any involvement from the devs themselves outside the web browser game.
>>14687626 >Except that Touhou does have canon material I know that, I meant that what is considered wild secondaryism in Touhou is basically all there is in all of Kancolle. Even before the information books, Touhou still had the advantage because despite the fact that a few lines of snippy dialogue aren't going to do wonders for anyone's characterization, the games have a plot and you can actually see the characters' motivations and reactions to events.
>>14687597 It's curious enough that you mentioned this, because they already have, with 加賀岬, which is actually quite great. Almost enough to make me want to be a Kancolle fan all over again.
If I had to choose one thing as the culmination of otaku culture it would probably be Touhou. It's based on a doujin computer game, it's a mostly grassroots phenomena, its fandom is extremely productive and creative (games, doujinshi, art, music, anime), and it revolves around bishoujo characters while also having a rich setting heavily based on traditional Japanese culture.
I don't know the motives and backgrounds of the people who make KanColle (on the nuts and bolts level), but it is made by a huge publishing conglomerate rather than a solo author, circle or anime studio. I think it also relies far too much on just having a lot of bishoujo characters that—correct me if I'm wrong—don't get really developed and don't occupy any detailed setting (in the game, anyway). While bishoujo characters are at the core of otaku culture, they shouldn't be everything. It's kind of like Kadokawa just made a ton of characters, dumped them on otaku and said: "Here, do something with these."
>>14693486 that's because you're a filthy secondary that didn't play the game. That's exactly what they are. No one ever asks the lore of the random trash fairies but when it comes to something that beat touhou, you have to analyze every single flaw
>>14695200 the abyssal bosses aren't trash faeries, pic attached are.
bosses are like the 2hu's bosses. remilia or yukari aren't cardboard cutouts, are they? as far as i know their personality's much more interesting than "i'm evil, i'll kill you", especially with all the extra materials zun releases that the animu was supposed to be for kantai collection, but wasn't.
This thread is the least /jp/like thread i've seen in years. Can't we take it easy anymore? Also, i do agree that KanColle seems like it's made for money, not out of passion, but let's not fight about it, okay? I think we can have a proper discussion
Do people here in /jp/ actually cares about Kancolle? I always thought that the threads were made ironically by the same people.
Also I don't understand all the hate around it. I mean, when it first came out it didn't catch my attention a bit. I can understand why Japanese otakus went gaga over it because nationalism-boat-war-never forget-blahblah with [refined girls] but it's not like pandering is anything new.
>>14698276 That non existing passion created some pretty sexual girls. The majority of all products that gain popularity are made because of monetary interests. Maybe stop thinking about intentions and hammer your dick already.
>>14703441 maybe the 2hu memers shouldve been as vocal as they are now when kancolle was here for 3 years and didn't put 2hu in 3rd at comiket but ultimately they can't stop artists from playing whatever the fuck they want. I'm betting the same tantrum will happen when their precious 2hu artists also switch to granblue since it's also starting to pick up steam
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