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Daily Japanese Thread - DJT # 1893

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Cornucopia of Resources / Guide
Read the guide before asking questions.
http://djtguide.neocities.org/

Discuss the process of learning Japanese.

Previous thread:
>>78388702
>>
おはよございます
>>
How do you explain to people who ask why you're learning Japanese?
>>
>>78454360
I say I like jap music, which is true
>>
>>78454360
Tell them the truth. You're learning it so you can communicate with Jap girls while fucking them.
>>
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>>78454426
t.
>>
>>78454360
I don't tell people.
>>
>>78454360
depends on who's asking
I mean it's true that I want to learn several languages in my life, but I leave out the "initially started because of animu" part if I the person isn't too close to me
>>
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>>78454360
I'm not some middle school kid who is about to burst if I don't tell everyone I LOVE animu, why the hell would I ever tell anyone I'm learning nip? If I were to be truthful and tell them for music, comics and porn games, they would only shun me. Not that I give a shit though
>>
>>78457164
>>78457164
I want to read in Japanese most of all, specifically history which is my area of interest. I view it as a challenge and enjoy it so that is why.

But like >>78456355, says, I've stopped advertising that I do unless someone is really interested in where I spend my time.
>>
>>78454360
>>78457164
>If I were to be truthful and tell them for music, comics and porn games, they would only shun me.
"I am learning Japanese to enjoy Japanese media."
There, absolutely nobody is going to shun you for this.
>>
>>78457480
Eh, either way I am not looking to tell anyone anything, I have nothing to gain or lose that way. I'd say it is also weirder for me to say so compared to a white dude, seeing that I am black. Anyone black I knew in high school and middle school kept their powerlevel way under the radar, it is just what I do now.
>>
>>78454360
I don't have to explain shit because nobody knows
>>
>guide says dont listen to music during reps
>finally say fuck it and do it anyways
>retention is the highest I can ever remember it being
nice meme
>>
>>78458167
Did it have lyrics?

I listen to soundtracks and classical music usually
>>
>>78457930
>I'd say it is also weirder for me to say so compared to a white dude, seeing that I am black
I have only limited experience, because I don't just tell people about learning japanese unless they ask for my hobbies or some shit,
but half the people look at you like you have some kind of super power when you can speak even a bit of japanese, let alone be able to read and shit
which brings me to my actual point, wouldn't it be actually better for a black guy, if you look at it from a racist point of view... many people think that blacks are dumber or just have this subconscious prejudice, so wouldn't they think off you as a "good one", whereas the white guy is just a weird weeb
>>
>>78458370
>half the people look at you like you have some kind of super power when you can speak even a bit of japanese, let alone be able to read and shit
This, show them your kanjis if you get the chance, or when you write something down use Japanese. If you live in Vancouver or a heavily Chinese populated area you can read the Chinese signage and surprise people, "How can you read that? Are you learning Chinese as well?"
>>
新学期が迫って、緊張が上がる
「僕はAnkiのレップを続けるか続けないか分からん」とよく思う
>>
「──妖魔は人里には出ないのではなかったろうか。
少なくともタッキはそう言っていた。それは珍しいことだと。
──妖魔は昼には出ないのではなかったろうか。」

~のではなかったろうか Could someone help me break this down, and get a non-slang alternative for なかったろう? Is it だろう(のではなかっただろうか)? And would a good somewhat relatively literal translation be like "Wasn't it that monsters don't appear in human settlements?"

Like

妖魔は人里には出ない = monsters don't appear in human settlements
のではなかったろうか = wasn't it that...?
>>
>>78454360
People don't ask why, they just go full WOAHHH U CRAZY THATS IMPOSSIBLE Xdd
>>
>>78454360
"I wanna watch Kamen Rider without waiting for subs, and read untranslated porn."
>>
>>78458267
Yea was listening to this off the top of my head and a bunch of other stuff I dont recall, all had lyrics though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-a5qvH4VEQ
the lyrics didn't really bother me at all
>>
ノック、ノック
>>
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>>78464419
フースデア?
>>
>>78464870
ノーベル
>>
>>78458370
>>78458881
My ultimate point in that was that not telling anyone anything is just kinda the way it is, but thanks for the encouragement I guess. Not really looking to prove anything or impress anyone, I just need more access to nip entertainment and things to jerk it to, so here I am.
>>
New contender for favourite word: 井蛙
>>
>>78457930
>>78465670
I'm not saying you should go out and tell people "Hey btw I'm learning Japanese, do you know why?"
If you ever practice Japanese outside of your bedroom, people might ask. I've been asked when
doing my reps during lectures.

People who show interest for the fact that you learn Japanese are often terminal weeaboos anyway.
>>
from an aesthetic point of view, what's your favorite kanji?

mine's 気
>>
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>>78465009
ノーベルフー?
>>
>>78461165
Yup. HJGP has an entry for たろう.
>>
>>78470993

Is there a pdf version of this book floating around, or am I going to have to put up with images?
>>
Reminder that ⺍ is NOT a variant of ⺌ (小).
>>
>>78464419
>>78464870
>>78465009
>>78468471
続きは??
>>
>>78468452
>>
What does the "その" in "その他" do? I assume since Japanese doesn't have a definite article it's there to signify that the "others" explicitly come from the set of stuff that is being talked about but I'm not certain and couldn't find anything about this online.
>>
For listening practice cards should i make the front have

Just audio
or
Japanese phrase with audio

The back has an english translation.
>>
>>78474645
その上
above that
その後
after that
その他
other to that (other than that)
>>
>>78475248
Makes sense, thank you
>>
>>78475219

I'm not sure listening practice cards are worth anything
>>
>>78475312
oh? how else do i study listening?
I made cards from anime audio. I thought it would be good practice
>>
>>78475356

Seems to me that you should do listening practice in context. Instead of making the listening cards from anime just watch the anime?
>>
>>78475532
i make them after i watch them!
but then again im still not sure if i should be watching with japanese or english subtitles.

I watch them with english, then make cards with japanese so I can figure out what what i missed.
>>
>>78475356
I more or less agree with that anon. The issue most people have with listening is being unable to parse unfamiliar content fast enough. Repeatedly listening to the same things as listening practice probably isn't going to give you the results you want.
>>
>>78475592
I don't remember who it was - I think it was Meme Kaufman -, but I once saw an interesting suggestion of picking a single episode/movie/whatever and watch it over and over all the time, as a background activity.
You'll come to a point where you'll know the lines by heart and that'll help you with internalizing the language in a comfortable environment.
I personally don't follow this tip, but if you're going as far as doing Anki cards, this might be a more useful approach to you.
>>
>>78475594
>probably isn't going to give you the results you want.
What do you suggest?
I'm trying to practice before I meet up with some Japanese people in a few weeks and my speaking and listening is shit even though I'm nearly finished with the 10k
>>
What manga should I read from CoR?
>>
Why is my computer lagging and freezing up after changing my locale to Japanese?
>>
>>78476061
The ones you find interesting
>>
>>78476061
ベルセルク
>>
>>78476061

The CoR has a bunch of trash. Find a manga that is actually interesting.
>>
>>78476195
Japanese is too complicated for your potato pc
>>
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What is the ni particle doing here? Wouldn't a subject market like de make more sense?

I thought ni was for locations, destinations, and time references primarily.
>>
>>78477554
Direction. You're teaching it "to" your friend.
>>
>>78476810
>tfw fell for the 16 gib ram meme so i could run japanese
>>
>>78477554
に marks the direction you are doing the verb.
>to my japanese friends
the "to" is a direction particle

で marks what object is being used generally. And would be weird in this case.
>Using my friends to teach (someone) japanese
>>
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>>78474645
>>78475283
俺を好きに女は、慶子に洋子に明子に、その他(and so on)
>>
>>78477554
I highly recommend reading a grammar guide, if you haven't already, and only using memrise as a supplement to anything else.
>>
>>78475940
Actually just listening to compelling content, or find a language exchange partner, or pay to have conversations with a tutor.
>>
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>>78475940
>he didn't watch anime even though I tell everyone to do so daily in every thread
>>
/Int, do your cunt's people also have a stereotype that Japanese is language that only otaku or cartoon maniacs learn? My cunt's people look like having it.
>>
>>78478989
>stereotype
Is it even really a stereotype when its true?
>>
>>78479105
アニメよりはニュースや新聞を読むために日本語を習う人もいるんじゃない?欧米にもそんな人が多くないか?
>>
>>78478989
Yeah, although out of the 40 or so people that were in my Japanese class I'm fairly certain less than 5 of them (myself included) actually watched anime as evidenced by the time a native was in our class for some reason and our professor made us introduce ourselves and most of them struggled to remember and pronounce よろしくお願いします
>>
>>78478989
People here just think that it's impossible
>>
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>>78478989
Nah lots of people learn it. Or at least used to. Now the popz language to learn is Korean.

It's about the same in Hong Kong (and China? I'm not sure).
>>
>>78479191
Most of the Americans who learn Japanese are Japanese porn addiction in fact.
>>
>>78479287
Porn conversation doesn't need high level of vocabulary or does it?
>>
>>78479287
I could see that. We had to record a skit in groups as part of our final. No one has cameras nowadays so we did it on our phones and this one guy was really nervous about one of the other group members using his phone to record while it was his turn so I assumed he had some porn on there or something.
>>
>>78479287

I'm more addicted to games and cars. GIB R32 NISMO
>>
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/k10011101731000/k10011101731000.html
>中国と韓国、台湾、香港から来た人は、今まで最も多くなりました。
Why is there only a と between 中国 and 韓国? Is it like saying "X, Y, and Z"?
>>
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>>78477740
Why are absolutely every single image you post in here such garbage JPG with this much compression?

When you go outside, to you take garbage bins and flip them upside down, getting its content all over the floor? Because that's exactly what you're doing on the Internet.
Is Japanese Internet limited by shitty plans? Are you on a budget? Where do you even find pictures with such shitty quality?

Holy shit.
>>
>>78480185
He has to hide them all on his phone, away from his wife and teenage daughter. Can't have them knowing he's a perv, you know.
>>
>>78480185
The goober is a poster that is the most hated by JT posters.
just ignore him.
>>
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What does this sentence say?
>>
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>>78479166
それは邪道だ
>>78479309
英語のcumは、日本語では「行く」であることさえ知っていればポルノには充分でしょう
>>78480120
最初に、
「今まで」の後に「で」が必要。
引用は正確に。
次に、
公用文やNHKのニュース原稿では、列挙する場合、
「A、B、CとD」というように書くべきとされている。ですから、規則からすれば、その原稿はおかしい。
「中国、韓国、台湾と香港から来た人は、今までで最も多くなりました。」
がよい。
しかし、これは公用文に準じるもののみのきまりであって、一般には、気にしない。
>>78480185
who am i?
>>78480797
lol
i don't give a shit about your opinion
everyone knows you are a liar
>>
>>78480894
>「今まで」の後に「で」が必要。
Yeah, typed it out quickly because copying and pasting scrambles in the furigana
>しかし、これは公用文に準じるもののみのきまりであって、一般には、気にしない。
Alright thanks
>>
>>78480860
Since luggage inspection only started an hour ago, there were about 10 passengers waiting outside the building.
>>
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>>78480860
>>78481069
「かっきり」と「きっかり」と同語源で数量や時間などがjustであるということ
だから
かっきり一時間:just an hour
かっきり1時間前にしか作業を始めないため、乗客は10人ほどが建物の外で待っていました。
about 10 passengers waited outside the building because they had not started their work until just one hour before the flight
なんか、このブラジル旗って、常に自信過剰で間違いばかりのような気がする
>>
>>78481717
Doesn't the 作業 here refer to the work of luggage inspection? Also, I almost never post here...
>>
>>78478556
not everyone else here has the time to shit away 12k hours watching anime in the hope of learning the language, that approach is slow as fuck and stupidly inefficient

you should feel embarrassed for taking multitudes longer to learn what even the thickest of fucks are able to. advice from you is worthless
>>
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>>78481717
I'm not sure, but this article doesn't seem to interpret かっきり in favor of "just".
>>
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>>78482158
Wrong pic
>>
>「何にせよ、俺はそんなくだらないものには加担しないがね」司
>「え? いいの? 今度は相羽がイジメられない?」
>「ふざけるな、俺は乾なんか最初から眼中にないね」
>「最近調子にのってたから、近いうちにシメようと思ってたくらいだ」司
>「もしかして、乾より、お前のが悪くない?」
I'm having issues interpreting the fourth line, I'm thinking of it as "I've been getting carried away, so sooner or later I'll start to be strict." But it doesn't make sense following the next line, any help?
>>
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>>78481843
もちろん、この「作業」は、その前の「荷物検査」のことです。日本語の文章では分かり切った主語は省略されます。
かっきり1時間前にしか作業を始めないため=(空港職員が)かっきり一時間前にしか作業(=荷物検査:baggage inspection/security check)を始めないため
次に、主文の「乗客は10人ほどが建物の外で待っていました」の、「は」はtopic markerで「が」がSubject markerであり、主語は「10人ほど(の乗客)」です。
>>78482158
>>78482175
「きっかり」と「かっきり」にも微妙な使い分けがあります。そして、そして「正確に」とも意味の違いはあります。日本語と英語は、まったく異なる系統の言語ですので、単語同士が対応するわけがありません。
このことが理解できない限り、日本語は一生学べません。
「かっきり」に最も意味の近いのは「きっかり」と「きっちり」で、次に「丁度」という副詞です。この文ではこの意味で用いています。
nativeから何も学べないのであれば日本語を理解する機会は永遠にないでしょう。
>>78482223
「最近調子にのってたから、近いうちにシメようと思ってたくらいだ」の「最近調子にのっていた」の主語は「乾」でしょう。
「調子にのる」は、「態度の大きい/のさばっている」という意味のslangです。
「シメる」も、「懲らしめる/やり込める」という意味のslangで、時にはlynchingを意味する言葉です。
もっとよいものを読みましょう。
>>
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男はぶっきらぼうにうなずいて、店の奥に声をかける。
「おい、泊まりだ。案内しな」
ちょうど奥から出てきた老人がそれにこたえて頭を下げた。老人はニコリともせずに陽子(ようこ)に目線で奥を示す。

「目線で奥を示す」 ".. to indicate to the interior of the hotel using one's line of sight" How could this be translated smoothly into English?
>>
>>78483007
He motioned to the back with his eyes.
Maybe.
>>
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>>78482223
まあ、英語として正しいかどうかは別として

最近調子にのってたから、近いうちにシメようと思ってたくらいだ
I just guessed I wannated lynch him before long because his manner was haughty nowadays

wannatedはwannaの過去wanted toのつもり
いかにもgangが使う様なslangに置き換えてください
>>78483007
「目線で奥を示す」=「視線を奥の方に遣る」
多分、「こちらに行け」と視線で示したということです。意訳する以外にないです。
He made sign to Yoko with his eyes to show her into a room without smiling
>>
>https://youtu.be/WkWwptom6zo?t=17
I found this catchy kid's song a few weeks ago and always come back to this specific spot because I want to understand what's being said here but he's taking too quickly for me.

>テレビの前のみんなも...
Can someone type out what's being said after this from 0:17 to 0:25?
>>
>>78482583
English please. I can't read japanese explanations.
>>
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>>78483881
「テレビの前の皆(みんな)も
お友達たくさんいるとは思うけどね
白山羊さんもいっばい友達いるんだって
メェーーーー
お友達の黒山羊さんにお手紙書いた」

という感じ。
>>
>>78483881
お友達たくさんいると思うけどね、しろやぎさんもいっぱい友達いるんだって!
>>
>>78483994
loling
I must tell you that:
you must give up reading it if you cannot understand Japanese of such level as >>78482583 (You)
>>
>>78483994
He's an asshole. Don't let him bother you. This guy >>78481069 has it right. He just didn't include the かっきり ("exactly", "precisely") in his translation because it's not really necessary. At least, I think that's why. Sorry for assuming, Brasil-kun.
>>
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>>78484323
>>78481069
Thanks!
>>
>>78484006
>>78484021
Thanks. Even while reading it I still can't hear those two いる usages.
>>
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>>78484323
だから、なんでassholeになるんだよ。
「かっきり」は金銭当に使って「釣銭が必要ない」という意味で、そもそも時間にはそれほど使わない。
使うなら「きっかり」だよ。
シベリアの空港職員はpunctualではないので有名なので、exactlyなどという訳がでてくるわけがない。
そもそも、その説明文が読めない人に>>78480860の文が読めるわけがない。
>>78484498
いい加減にしな
>>78484502
お友達(が)たくさんいる
「いる」は本動詞でto be/to exist
お友達たくさんいる=(As for you,) there are so many friends
ただし、英訳としては
お友達たくさんいるとは思うけどね
I think you have so many friends
>>
>>78483738
>>78483645

Alright, now I have a better grasp of that use of 示す, thanks.
>>
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昔々おじいさんとおばあさんとあったとさ...
>>
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Seems like a lot of help this morning.. I might as well take advantage of it:

I'm hoping to get some confirmations on this dialect/old man talk:

「頼むからしゃべってくれかえ。俺はもう四十何年も日本語を聞いてないがよ」
~かえ = ~かよ?
~がよ = ?

「茶ぐらい飲まんかえ。ちょっとだけやけんど、煎茶があるがよ。持ってくるきに。……な?」
~やけんど = んだけども?
~きに = ?

「……あまりええ茶やないがやけんど」
~やない = がない or はない?
>>
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>>78485491
ある日、おじいさんとおばあさんは、仲良く川に洗濯にいったとさ
すると、川上から、何やら「どんぶらこ、どんぶらこ」と流れてきました
おばあさんは、眼が悪かったので、おじいさんにたずねました
「おじいさんや、あれはなんでせう」
おじいさんは、答えて謂ひました
「あれは、ももだろう」
(本当の桃太郎は、桃を食べて若返ったお爺さんとお婆さんの間に桃太郎が生まれたという回春型の話です
つまり、ちょっとえっちぃぃな話です
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/桃太郎)
>>
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>>78485833
その語尾に使われている「がよ」は、土佐弁の終助詞で、共通語の「だよ」に相当します。
「持ってくるきに」も「持ってくるので」の意味で土佐弁です。
「けんど」も土佐弁で、共通語の「けれどけです。
以上から、老人は土佐つまり高知出身だとぱんちゅ屋は判断します。
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/土佐弁
http://www.webkochi.net/hogen/tosaben.php
>>
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>>78486141
*「けんど」も土佐弁で、共通語の「けれど」です。
まあ、共通語より多用されてはいますが。
>>78485833
共通語に翻訳しておきます。

頼むからしゃべってくれないか。俺はもう四十何年も日本語を聞いてないのだよ。
お茶ぐらい飲んでくれよ。ちょっとだけだけど、煎茶もあるんだよ。持ってくるから。……な?

……あまりええ茶ではないのだけれど。
>>
>>78486289
*ちょっとだけだけれど
>>78485833
結局、wikiに従えば
「がよ」=「のだよ」
となりますが
nuanceとしはて
「のだよ」ですね

「けんど」は「けれども」

その前の「や」は「だ」近く、多分係助詞の「や」が終助詞化したものが語源で、関西弁でもよく使う断定の助動詞「や」ですね

で、「やけんど」は「だけれども」

「きに」は順接の接続詞で共通語の「から」
以上を踏まえて

ないがやけんど=ない+の+だ+けれど=ないのだけれど
以上を踏まえて>>78486289を、少し修正して再翻訳すれば

「頼むからしゃべってくれないか。俺はもう四十何年も日本語を聞いてないのだよ。」
「お茶ぐらい飲んでくれよ。ちょっとだけだけど、煎茶もあるんだよ。持ってくるから。……な?」
「……あまりよい茶ではないのだけれど。」

これで、完璧かな。まあ、ぱんちゅ屋は、この>>78484323在日ブスと違って、native Japaneseなので、英語は得意ではありませんが、間違いなく、この在日ブスはコテ粘着厨として有名なtrollです
>>
>>78486141
>>78486289
>>78487249
Ah you're right, the man says that he is from Kochi a few lines later. Thanks, this is very thorough and helpful. I think, the only part that is still somewhat confusing to me is 飲まんか turning into 飲んでくれ. At first glance, I would think that.. のまんか = のまないか. I'll spend some time on those links you posted if I want to improve my understanding of this dialect.
>>
>>78452547
lel nice pic
>>
>>78484173
Your Japanese is hard to read...even for Japanese.

正直パンツ屋の日本語読みにくいよ
>>
>>78487249
>このことが理解できない限り、日本語は一生学べません。
>nativeから何も学べないのであれば日本語を理解する機会は永遠にないでしょう。


別の日本人だけど、お前は何様のつもりだ?
自分は英語できないくせになんでそんな偉そうなの?
>>
>>78482030
How do you think you are going to get good at listening to Japanese if you don't listen to Japanese?

Also that 12k hours is my current amount of anime watched, not how much you need to watch to get good at listening. I was chatting with Japanese people 5 years ago with no studying, just lots of anime
>>
>>78488610
それは君の国語力の問題
>>78488720
日本語に内在的な問題は日本語で書くのは当然
必要に応じて英語も使う、それだけです
>>
>>78488813
このスレは日本語を習い始めてる人の為のスレなのに、わざわざ難しい言葉を使わなくてもいいだろ?

配慮が足らないってか、独りよがりすぎる。
>>
>>78488900
訊いている質問そのものが初心者の質問ではありません
そして、別に君が答えてもいいわけです
なぜ、そうしないのか?
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>>78484967
>そもそも時間にはそれほど使わない。
>>
What does わかっとります mean?

Context: One character gets told to drop their selfish behavior and that's how the other replies.
>>
>>78489482
パンツ屋に限ったことじゃないけど、大人になってもアニメばっか見てる人ってなんか心に余裕がないというか、必死すぎる人多いよね
>>
>>78479287
true
>>
>>78490570
It looks like the whole exchange was a shit show because this pantsuya poster sucks at English. You seem to be esl, as well. Judging from his responses, it looks like he used the word "just" to mean "precisely" in the translation, which to be charitable, that doesn't sound too unnatural to be interpreted as a "precisely" nuance; I'm saying that as a native English user. However it's still not the most clear word to use when trying to make a very lucid translation, since "just" can also have the feeling of "barely" or "merely".
>>
>>78491105
That means "I know/I understand/ I obey you" but that sounds like dialect in western part of japan, although in my homecountry (Nagano prefecture), we use that.
>>
>>78492201
Thank you very much anon.
Slang and dialect always causes me trouble.
>>
>>78492044
I see. Probably that's what the whole misunderstanding is all about.
>esl
What's that?
>>
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>>78490570
全く使わないとは言っていない。あまり使わない。時間の場合は「きっかり」を使う。
君は随分日本語に自信があるようだが、下記のJLPT1の問題を解いてごらん。

電車は予定どおり、十時____に到着した。
1.がっちり 2.きっちり 3.きっかり 4.がっかり

君が、その辞書を信用したいのだろうが、通用しません。「かっきり」は選択枝にも登場しませんね。永遠に出来ないちゃんでいてください。
>>78491395
全く関係のないアニメを持ち出すあたりルサンチマンの典型ですね。
>>78491105
>Context: One character gets told to drop their selfish behavior and that's how the other replies.
I understand about what you are saying
>>
>>78493249
>君は随分日本語に自信があるようだ
I wonder where I made such an impression...
>>
is mastery of Tae Kim's shit sufficient grammar for N2? If not, what's the next step?
>>
>>78492319
English as second language
>>
>>78494062
sou matome + dojg
>>
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>>78495026
It would have been problematic to have it a first language in Russia.
>>
>>78495093
thanks yo. worth it to play safe with N3 or just go straight for N2?
>>
>>78495964
http://www.jlpt.jp/e/samples/n2/index.html
http://www.jlpt.jp/e/samples/n2/index.html
http://www.jlpt.jp/e/samples/n2/index.html
http://www.jlpt.jp/e/samples/n2/index.html
>>
>>78492044
> "just" can also have the feeling of "barely" or "merely
それは、そうだ。
ただ、「きっちり」、「きっかり」、「かっきり」には、微妙な使い分けもある。
「丁度一時間前」なら「きっちり一時間前」となる。
「時計の針が一時間前を示した、その瞬間」なら「きっかり一時間前」だ。「ぴったり」も同じように使う。
上のJLPT1の問題の正解は3で
「電車は予定どおり、十時きっかりに到着した。」だが
では、では「電車は十時きっちりに到着した」を何故使わないかと言うと、そこには時計の針のズレがないという意味が「きっかり」には含蓄されているから。

そして、「かっきり」には、「南北をかっきり分ける」、「一万円かっきり」というように使い、時間にはあまり使わない。
「時間きっちり」はgoogleで約 13,000,000 件
「時間きっかり」はgoogleで約 376,000 件
「時間かっきり」はgoogleで約 43,200 件
このように、明確に使い方に差がある。
ただ、最も一般的な表現は「時間ちょうど」で約 34,100,000 件となる。
「きっちり(ちょうど)一時間前」ならpreciselyで問題ないと思う。
「かっきり(きっかり)一時間前」なら「まさしく一時間前」という感じになる。
このnuanceの違いを、あなたなら、どう訳すか?
>>78493902
文字通りです。
丁度一時間前
きっちり一時間前
きっきり一時間前
かっちり一時間前
の区別が君にはnativeに聞かなくてもわかるのでしょう。
ここまでできれば、日本語について学ぶ必要はないでしょう。
>>
>>78493249
>>78497462

I'm a different guy by the way, also へぼ日本語なんだけどすまんな

べつに君が違うと言ってる訳ではありませんが、日本人向けの辞書にも「かっきり」を時間的な意味で使う例文が見られます

たとえば大辞林:
>かっきり
>(1)時間・数量などに端数のないさま。ちょうど。「一〇時―に集まれ」「―千円」
>(2)境などがはっきりしているさま。はっきり。「南北に―(と)二分する」

或いは広辞苑:
>かっきり
>区画がはっきりしているさま。また、時間・数量などに端数のないさま。きっかり。ちょうど。
>「―半分だ」「千円―」

大辞林の項目なら最初の単語は「時間」だし。ちょっともっとれっきとした広辞苑なら「区画」の意が「時間」より強いかもしれないがそれでも「時間」が述べられています。

が、確かにこのリンク(http://www.ytv.co.jp/announce/kotoba/back/2501-2600/2501.html)の「◆ことばの話2501「かっきりときっかり」」を閲覧してみたら、筆者は君と同じ、時間の場合なら「きっかり」の方がいいと思っているらしい。

が、そのことばの話2501を引用しよう。
「『新明解国語辞典』で引いていたら、用例に、
「十一秒フラット(=かっきり)」
というのが出て」

ということは、「かっきり」を普通に時間的な意味に使う日本人もあるんじゃない?その「フラット」の項目を書いた人もその中にいる。

ちょっと脱線してるけど、私の親父は「transformer」という単語を言う時「TRANSformer」と発音する。それに引き換え私と約99%のアメリカ人は「transFORMer」と発音するだろう。私自身には変に聞こえるけど親父は違わないと思う。native speakerだから。

つまり、言いたいことは、所詮語感でしょ?nativeにも異なる印象があるから、「辞書や
>>78480860 の原文を無視し俺の言うことをすべて鵜呑みにしろ」と聞こえるかも。

もう一度、君が違うと言ってる訳じゃない。その「ことばの話」にも踏まえて、多くの人にとって時間の場合は「きっかり」を使うでしょう。
ただ、 >>78488720 さんはアニメ嫌い不心得者ですが、確かに君は或る人にとって偉そうに聞こえるかもしれない。私はべつに構わないけど。

うわ、これを書くのにめっっちゃ時間かかった…かっきり2時間かな
>>
>>78497650
そういう例文があることと、そのような意味で一般に使われるということは違う。解釈は辞書により異なる。
ただ、微妙な差なので、辞書には書いていなかったというだけ。
こういうこと
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/goo1592/e/4a9e43ccbc825ef2c4521f95cd1659e1
http://www.ytv.co.jp/announce/kotoba/back/2501-2600/2501.html
https://note.mu/harumima/n/n38c227f4fe2b
英語の問題ではなく日本語の使い方の問題。
「かっきり」という表現には「まさしく一時間前になるまで空港職員は手荷物検査をやろうとしなかった」の「まさしく」というnuanceが強く出ている表現だということ。
単にpreciselyなら「ちょうど一時間前になるまで」と書くだろうということ。
英語でどう書くべきはしらない。
>>
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what does the いかが in いかがですか mean exactly?
>>
>>78498070
*英語でどう書くべきかはしらない。
about 10 passengers waited outside the building because they had not started their work until just one hour before the flight
の until just one hour beforeは、そういうつもりで訳した
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>>78498143
「いかがですか」に一番近い英語表現は、would you like
コーヒーはいかがですか
Would you like a coffee?

ただし、「いかがですか」の「いか」は、漢字で書くと「如何」で、
つまり「how」の意味になるので、直訳すればHow aboutになるというだけ。

じゃあ、出来ないちゃん達、おやすみ
>>
What writing system might the Japanese have adopted if there was no Chinese influence? Might they have made some Hangul kind of stuff?
>>
>>78498157
>>78498478
いかないでええええ
>about 10 passengers waited outside the building because they had not started their work until just one hour before the flight
この文のtense(時制?)はなんか変と思いますが概ねはわかった。質問は以下:

>かっきり1時間にしょか作業を始めないため、乗客は10人ほど建物の外で待っていました。

How would you write this if it were "luggage inspection started just an hour ago" rather than "luggage inspection started just an hour before the flight"? 違いがよくわかりません
>>
>>78498070
ちなみに、この「まさしい」は漢字で書くと「正しく」というより「将しく」「当しく」なので、間違えないように。
>>
How do I read Chinese in Japanese
>>
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>>78497462
>文字通りです。
>丁度一時間前
>きっちり一時間前
>きっきり一時間前
>かっちり一時間前
>の区別が君にはnativeに聞かなくてもわかるのでしょう。
>ここまでできれば、日本語について学ぶ必要はないでしょう。
What was that all about?
>>
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Is this しまうーのそれはなに, しまうーの物はそれはなに, or something else? I've never seen それused like 彼のそれ before but maybe it's possible?
>>
>>78498591
>tense(時制?)はなんか変
確かに、they did not started their workでよかったな。
その辺が日本人英語なのだろうな。
今辞書を引くとboardingを使うべきでした。
正確には「搭乗の一時間前」という意味で、
Baggage check was carried out an hour before boarding.
ということ(体験上そうなので)が言いたかった。
明らかに、それはhttps://i.4cdn.org/int/1503125706392.pngは、旅行記travel literatureなんで、書いた時点より、an hour ago以上前のこととして書いている。
boardingを基準にしてan hour ago という言い方もありなのでしょうか?
その場合、 boardingの前の前置詞は何を使うべきなのでしょうか?
その辺の英語は知りません。ただ、私の感覚ではagoはa+gone(now)でnowを基準にするのだと思っていたので、そういう表現には思いいたらなかった。
>>78497650
少なくとも、そういう使い方は少数であるというのは>>78497462>>78498070で書いているとおりなので。時計の針を例に出したような感じなので、アナログのストップウオッチなら「11秒かっきり」という言い方はあるかるかもしれない。ただし、デジタルなら使わないかもしれない。年代や地域によっては使うかもしれない。その程度のこと。
>>78498803
文字通りです。
二番目の「きっきり一時間前」は「きっちり一時間前」のtypoですね。
では、おやすみ。
>>78499977
子供らしい言い方です。「しまうー(花西)のその持ち物は何?」の意味です。
>>
>>78500479

Thanks
>>
>>78498803
For some reason that magazine reminds me of Hey, Arnold!
>>
>>78485833
~くれないか → ~くれんか → ~くれんかえ

聞いてないがー・・・Okayama dialect
聞いてないがよ・・・Kouchi(Tosa) dialect

ちょっとだけやけど→ちょっとだけやけんど・・・common western dialect

持ってくるき/持ってくるきに・・・Kouchi(Tosa) dialect

いい茶じゃないけど・・・standard language

ええ茶やない+けど→けんど・・・common western dialect

ええ茶やない+が(よ)+けんど・・・Kouchi(Tosa) dialect
>>
>>78500479
tenseの話はしばらくさておきましょう。ごめん、質問のしかたが悪かった。焦って英語で書きました。誤解を招いた。日本語に再試します

>かっきり1時間前にしか作業を始めないため、乗客は10人ほど建物の外で待っていました。

君によって、この原文の意味は「搭乗の一時間前」ですよね。質問1は、「今から一時間前」という意味を含んだ文はどのように構造されるのでしょう?

>1時間前にしか作業が始まらなかったため、乗客は10人ほど建物の外で待っていました。
って「今から一時間前」の意味があるのかな?

ブラジルちゃんが原文(https://i.4cdn.org/int/1503125706392.png)を誤訳して、英語で「今から一時間前」という意味を含んだ文を書きましたよね。これは原文が私達にとって分かりづらかったからだ。「1時間前に」には問題があるのだから。1時間前=「今から1時間前」?1時間前=「搭乗から1時間前」?そもそも「搭乗」が原文にないから察知しなきゃいけないみたい。

だから質問2は、どうやってその2つの意味を弁えるってことかな。「始めない」が keyword か?習慣として「搭乗から1時間前にしか始めない」ということはあり得るから納得が行けそう
>>
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Can someone help me solve this puzzle? The context is that they're talking about her motivation for being a famed explorer, although I'm not 100 percent sure of that.
>>
>>78478989
Americans have such low standards for second language learning that if you have proficiency in anything other than spanish people are amazed by it. Even white people speaking spanish fluently is seen as impressive.
>>
質問なんだが、長文投下ばっかしている奴は精神的なアレなのか?
>>
>>78498803
>What was that all about?
Autism.
>>
Tae Kim is really confusing and I'm not good enough to tell what meanings in HJGP are being used yet.
>>
>>78507241
I believe it's something like "On the day they make me the White Whistle, I'll come up with a whole heap of legends!!"
>>
>>78508651
That makes a lot of sense, thank you. The purpose of 日 and にゃ in the sentence was what was confusing me. I thought she was just making cat noises for no reason.
>>
Since creating compound sentences with multiple verbs using the て form makes every verb before the final verb take on the tense of the final verb, how should you construct a sentence when you don't want all the tenses to match?
>>
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I started learning Japanese a couple of weeks ago and it's exhausting as fuck. I hope I can stick with it and stop being a pussy.
please don't post dekinai-chan it's demoralizing
>>
>>78509496
Ah, it's a shortening of には.
>>
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>>78509585
dekinai-chan is your friend, now get your ass in the car
>>
>being so engrossed in learning a language you start to develop feelings for grammatical structures
連用形 is my waifu
>>
Why does 凹むわー translate to "It's a bummer/I'm bummed"? Shouldn't it be 凹んでいるわー?
>>
>>78511109

Here's a pic for context. I'm aware of the double meaning, but it seems like both meanings make more sense to me under ている

凹んでいる = be inn a state of dejection/depression, be in a state of being indented
>>
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>>78477554
what app is this ?
>>
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>>78511364

in*
>>
>>78511381
Duolingo mobile
>>
>>78511109
>>78511364
>>78511396
I'm sure there's a grammatical explanation for it. Hopefully someone will post it. I always just think of such situations as (それを聞くと)へこむわ, like it's a typical reaction for such an instance.
>>
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Slow day at work
>>
>>78511705

Thanks, that seems like a good way to think of it. If anyone has a grammatical explanation or any more knowledge about this grammar though, please let me know cause I don't really understand the purpose of using the non-past form when both of the verb's actions in pic related seem like typical ongoing states/conditions for ている form
>>
>>78511898
Oops, should be このバイトの始まりから or something like that
>>
>>78452547

I didn't read the guide.

Can I ask questions?
>>
>>78454426

fuck...

that's exactly why I'm learning the language...

I find jap girls to be really cute...
>>
>>78511898
And I thought my handwriting was bad...

I've found that using a fine ballpoint pen is best for me as rollerpoint and gel pens don't dry as fast and tend to get smudged by my hand.
>>
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>>78511898
>>78513213
0.4 master race
>>
I figured I'd ask at the source.

Anyone know who this JAV star is?
>>
>>78513436

leave
>>
>>78513436
>>>/jp/jav
>>
>>78513004
No shame in that anon. I suspect half the people here are in it for the same reason, but are too much of a faggot to admit it
>>
>>78513213
I typically write with a fine or extra fine fountain pen, or with a 0.5 mechanical pencil, either my Rotring 600 or one of my kuru togas.

>>78513382
I'd like to get a smaller pencil, maybe 0.35, but I don't want to have to order lead for it online. Do you recommend the one you posted? Looks comfy to hold.
>>
>>78514265
forgot to say that I was writing with an extremely shitty gel pen at the time
>>
>>78514279
>2017
>3 billion people have access to the Internet, and thus some sort of keyboard
>unironically writing instead
>>
>>78514265
>Do you recommend the one you posted?
I got it because I like to fiddle with the mechanism. As far as comfort goes I can't really say how nice it feels because my grip is awkward and and tight so they all feel the same to me if they aren't glaringly bad. Solid pencil for sure though. You could also get a Graph Gear 1000 or a Pentel Sharp, they're both quite nice. Don't think they come in .35 though.
>>
>>78514371
Writing is enjoyable and in some situations more useful than a keyboard. For example, students that hand-write their notes (as opposed to typing them) tend to have better recall of the material.
>>
>>78514425
I'm just busting your balls anon. I hand write all the time if I need to memorize something. It definitely helps
>>
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よく寝たべ
>>78505376
>かっきり1時間前にしか作業を始めないため、乗客は10人ほど建物の外で待っていました。
前後のcontextから推定するしかないですが、「かっきり一時間前」なのだから、「ある時点からちょうど一時間前」となります。しかも時計の例をだすまでもなく、「きっちり(丁度)一時間前」にはない、「かっきり一時間前」の意味は、定められた時刻である暗喩なんです。つまり、「元々予定された時刻があり、その時刻より前に手荷物検査が始まらなかった」ということです。
だからJLPT1の問題で、「電車は予定どおり、十時きっちりに到着した。」ではなく、「電車は予定どおり、十時きっかりに到着した。」は、「予定された時刻」に電車は着いたというたという意味だから、「きっかり」を使うということです。「かっきり」は「端数のない」という意味ですが、時間に敢て使った場合は「きっかり」以とほぼ同じ意味になり、「定められた時刻」ということです。
さて、「きっちり一時間前」なら「一時間」という「時間」の問題ですが
「きっかり(かっきり)一時間前」なら、予め定められた「時刻」を示しているということを示している。
参照に示したhttp://www.ytv.co.jp/announce/kotoba/back/2501-2600/2501.htmlとかは、読んでくれましたか?
で、この「時刻」関する英語表現としては、on the dotという表現が使われるようですね。

電車はちょうど10時に着いた。The train arrived at just 10 o'clock
電車はきっかり(かっきり)10時に着いた。The train arrived at 10 o'clock on the dot
こういう感じになるのかな?
確かに両者ともにThe train arrived exactly at 10 o'clockやpreciselyで表すこともできますが、結果論です。もし、「電車はきっちり10時に着いた。」ならThe train arrived precisely at 10 o'clockと訳していたと思いますが、 just, on the dot,exactly とpreciselyの使い分けまでは、英語の問題なので、詳細は知りません。

さらに「始める」の主語は省略されていますが、「空港の保安職員」であることは明らかです。
ですから、原文の日本語の意味は、
「まさに定刻として定められた一時間前の時刻になるまで、空港職員は荷物検査を始めなかった」
となります。
この「まさに定刻として定められた一時間前の時刻」に対する表現として、飛行機に乗った経験から、「搭乗の一時間前」ということを補って訳したということです。
nuanceというより「語感」に近い問題かもしれませんが、日本人がかなり明確に意識しているということは、上の>>78498070で参照を示した記事を読めばわかると思います。
>>
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>>78511109
「凹むわー」の「凹む」は「気分が凹む」の「凹む」でしょう。
鬱になる:depressedというより、軽い感じです。

弁当を忘れたので、ちょっと凹んでいる。
I’m a little down because I forgot to bring lunch today.
という訳がありました。

これに対して、「凹んでいるわー」は、文法的にはaspectとして過去の結果の継続です。
しかし、この表現は、物が何かの結果として窪んでいることとか、自分以外の第3者の気分が凹んでいる場合に言う場合が多いでしょう。どの言語でもそうだと思いますが、自分の感情表現には進行形はあまり使いません。ダウンタウンの松っちゃんは、笑いをとるために、わざとそう言いますが。
>>78511898
コンビニでバイトする外人は多いね。
>>
>>78515116

Hmm... if 凹んでいる is a continuation of past results, wouldn't that mean that the non-past form (凹む) implies that the action of "feeling depressed/feeling down" happens immediately/in the very recent past/as a result of whatever just occurred?

Also, you mentioned that the ている form would more often be used when someone's depressed as a result of something, but isn't that the case in my pic? However you did say that it's more often used to refer to a third party's feelings, so I'm guessing that might be another reason why it's not でいる in my pic (since よつば is not a third party)
>>
へこむ はスラングやで
>>
How do I talk to people without being a burden on them requiring them to dumb down everything they say so that I can follow along?
>>
>>78507241
~した日にゃ is from edo dialect in Rakugo of a comic story probably. It shows an emphasis.
I don't know the meaning of 白笛.

https://www.google.co.jp/search?q="した日にゃ"+落語
>>
>>78515834
Get good
>>
>>78515834
Are you learning in Japan?
>>
>>78515821

Well, whether it's slang or not I'd like to know in which situations the non-past form is used to describe someone or something's state/condition, and also how common a use like that is
>>
>>78516000
Yeah. I can get by with basic stuff, but once the topic becomes even slightly non-general, I kind of fall apart.

>>78515952
I'm trying
>>
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>>78516217
situation・・・when someone told me that my favorite clothes were ダサい.
state/condition・・・pic
frequency・・・daily
>>
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I'm not entirely certain how うんしょっと is being used here. Also, what's ぺっとリ? Google gives me some images of bird cages and such but unless it's referring to a wired cage I don't think it fits since this is about a hamster.
>>
>>78517069
うんしょっ is like the voice that comes out when you lift yourself up to something or make a similar effort, like "hup!"
ぺっとり means "flush to", so pressing his tummy right up against the glass.
>>
>>78517117
>うんしょっ
Yeah I also considered it might be that plus と but when I looked it up on Jisho and weblio they both gave me "omigosh; crikey".
>ぺっとり
This one didn't even show up on Jisho. What's this called? 擬態語?
>>
>>78517153
I guess it's 擬態語. To be honest, I don't think I'd ever heard ぺっとり before your post, but I figured that was the meaning based on context and the "feel" of the word.
>>
>>78517234
>but I figured that was the meaning based on context and the "feel" of the word.
I get what you mean. Kinda weird it doesn't have と attached to it like ぼんやり or whatever else would but I think I'll just go with it. Thanks for the help.
>>
>>78500479
>What was that all about?
>文字通りです。
二番目の「きっきり一時間前」は「きっちり一時間前」のtypoですね。
では、おやすみ。

英語が分かりますか?
>>
>>78454360
I tell them that I do it in order to read porn games.
>>
>>78477554
>教える in hiragana
Why do they do this? It's basic kanji that shows up everywhere
>>
>>78515834
pretend to be baka-gaijin. Japs are extremely softhearted in most cases
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP-Q8_Slt_s

>What is your religion?
>Christianity [ ]
>Shinto [ ]
>Buddhism [ ]
>Muslim [X]
>Other [ ]

Into the trash your application goes

The system works
>>
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>>78515737
時制ではありません。現代の日本語では、時制は死滅に近い状態です(古語にはありました)。
「過去の結果の継続」と書いたのは、過去完了という意味でなく、「完了の継続」という意味です。「で」は接続助詞の「て」が撥音の後で連濁したもの、「いる」は補助動詞「居る」で、通常、progressive aspectとされますが、実は、「て」は上代の完了の助動詞「つ」の連用形で、「ている」は「完了の結果の継続」そのものです。つまり、本来はperfect aspectの「ている」がprogressive aspectとして使われるているに過ぎません。このことは「折れた腕」という完了の結果を表す「た」が、「折れている腕」と「完了の結果の継続」 の「ている」と置き換え可能だということからも明らかです。
更に、「何か凹ます様なことがあった」→「凹んだ」→「凹んだ」状態が継続している→「凹んでいる」という時系列なので、過去の(出来事の)完了の結果の継続と書いたまでです。
ちなみに、「もし彼が失敗して凹んでいるのなら、彼を寝取るチャンスだ」なら、一種の未来完了になります。ということで、時制は関係ありません。
次に、「凹んでいるわー」は、第三者に使うことが多いのですが、ダウンタウンといの松本人志というcomedianの持ちネタの一つで、わざと自分について使うというギャグ的な用法もあります。「よつばと」は漫画なので、元の絵は見ていませんが、そういう諧謔味というのは大事な要素です。
>>
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>>78515839
今放送しているアニメのメイドインアビスを見てください。
http://miabyss.com/
「探窟家が首から下げる笛の色でランクと通称が付加され、それぞれランクごとに潜れる深度の制限「限界深度」がある。まだ潜ることの出来ない探窟家のタマゴである鈴付きから始まり、深界一層の深度450mまで探査可能な"見習い"の赤笛、深界二層まで可能な一人前の"蒼笛"、深界四層まで可能な師範代の"月笛"、深界五層まで可能な"達人"の黒笛、深度制限のない"伝説級"英雄の白笛に分けられている」https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/メイドインアビス
つまり、「私を白笛にした日にゃ」は「私を白笛級の探窟家にした日には」という以外の意味ではないでしょう。
>>78517069
単なる間投詞です。英語で、Oof!とか。Yo‐heave‐ho! というのもあるそうです。
>>78517458
「どういうことか」と問われれたので「文字通り」と答えたまでです。
日本語がわかりますか?
>>
>>78518659
>単なる間投詞です
どれ?
>>
What's the best way to learn via listening:

>subtitles off, keep relistening until you can figure out the words
>subtitles on, try to pay attention to both
>subtitles off but turn them on when you get stuck
>>
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>>78518702
「うんしょっと」 itself is one word as an interjection like 'Oof'
「うんしょっと」それ自体が、一つの間投詞として、一語です。
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%84%9F%E5%8B%95%E8%A9%9E
>>
>>78518854
Ah, thank you. Do you know anything about ぺっとリ?
>>
>>78518659
>日本語がわかりますか?
わかりません
>>
りくぜ
What's this?
>>
>>78518952
Meant いくぜ
>>
Hey so there used to be an anon-made Core 5k deck that was posted here. Does anyone have a download link, or is there something else you guys use these days instead of Core 2k/6k?
>>
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>>78518873
それは、 onomatopoeiaとして使われます。
「ペットリと貼り付いた」
という感じかな。
例文をください。
参考までに、
http://www.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%BA%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F%E3%82%8A
これのに近い意味と推測しますが、例文を見なければわかりません。
>>78518883
あなたは、日本語を永遠にわかることはないと思いますし、協力するつもりもありません。
辞書と対話してください。以後、無視します。
>>78518952
例文をください。
>>
>>78518979
It could mean any number of things depending on context. It might mean "I'm outta here" or "Let's go" or "I'm going to orgasm".
Seriously.
>>
>>78519207
>例文をください。
Yeah sorry I was still referencing >>78517069
>お腹を見せるようにぺっとり壁に張り付いた
I think the link you provided is the correct definition here
>>
>>78511109
疲れるわー (疲れているわー can not be used.)
ex)お前がバカで疲れるわ- …you tire me.
I'm bummed が違うんじゃないの。
It bums me out
>>
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陸前rikuzenは仙台付近
行くぜは here we go
>>
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>>78519346
そうか、元の絵に書いてありましたね。
「お腹を見せるようにぺっとり壁に張り付いた」

「お腹を見せるようにぴったり壁に張り付いた」
同様の意味ですが、[ぴったり」より「ぺったり」が、より平面的な感じです。
つまり、「背中を壁に隙間なく押し当てる様に」という感じです。

英訳するなら、like this:
to push the back to the wall without a gap

背中the back を、壁に押し当てるとお腹は出ています。
>>
>>78519207
>あなたは、英語語を永遠にわかることはないと思いますし、協力するつもりもありません。
>>
https://youtu.be/Pn7wSKLBAQA

Can anyone translate what he says at 1:13?
>>
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>>78519953
>>
>>78519933
I see. One last thing, why do neither ぺっとり nor ぴったり use the と particle?
>>
>>78519957
こりゃあ効いたぞ
?
>>
>>78520163
English?
>>
>>78520174
英語分かりません
申し訳ございません
>>
>>78520174
something like "That hit home!", literally "this was effective!"
>>
>>78519022
DONT FALL FOR ANKI MEME MY SON
>>
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>>78520084
「ぴったりと」も「ぺったりと」も同じように「と」を使います。そして同じように省略できます。
文法的には「ぴったりと」の「ぴったり」は名詞ですが、「ぴったり」の一語で副詞として使われるので、「と」は省略が可能ということです。
>>78519953
lol
I don't give a shit about English you use
>>
>>78520461
ありがとうございます
>>
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>>78520461
lol
I don't give a shit about jap you use
>>
>>78518458

Thanks for your response. I definitely don't understand all of it, but I think I understand a little better now. The picture I posted is here >>78511396 let me know what you think about 凹む in that situation.


>>78519488

This makes sense, I guess the hard part is differentiating between the verbs that are okay to use as ongoing states with the ている form and verbs that must be used with the non-past form. Are there any guidelines about this?
>>
>I haven't seen my friend in 2 weeks
What's the best verb to use for "see" in this context? I feel like 見る is just for objects/things rather than people, is that right?
>>
>>78521098
めっちゃ難しいけど「感情変化動詞」で。
http://libir.soka.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/10911/2898/1/KJ00004859921.pdf
P38,40,41の語彙を見るくらいしかないかな・・・

『現代日本語文法』概論
http://www.geocities.jp/niwasaburoo/shuyoumokuji.html
http://www.geocities.jp/niwasaburoo/24asupekuto.html#24.3
(V-ている)
継続動詞・瞬間動詞(変化動詞)・状態動詞・第四種動詞 などの分類があるようです。
>>
>>78522481
二週間も会ってない
>>
>>78522803
Is present tense correct even though it's talking about the past two weeks?
>>
>>78522864
二週間も会わなかった We didn't see each other for 2 weeks (and then saw each other)

二週間も会ってない We are currently in the state of not having seen each other for 2 weeks
>>
>>78522939
わかった
ありがとう(´・ω・`)
>>
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>>78521098
like following:
Because a chestnut was a worm-eaten, Yotuba was disappointed. That feeling is expressed by her saying へこむわー.
Therefor, the meaning of that へこむわー is to be disappointed, I think

それから>>78519488ではないけど、無意志動詞の知覚動詞seeやhear、感情表現のlikeやloveに進行形ないのと同じことです。
日本語の「好き」は形容詞なので進行形のつくりようがない。ところが、「愛する」は、seeに対するlookのように[好き」という状態(形容詞)に対する意志動詞なので、「愛している」と進行形があるのです。
「疲れている」という表現は無いわけではないが、上に書いているように、「疲れた」という完了の結果の継続でaspectはprogressiveではなくperfectです。そして「彼は疲れている(様に見える)」と第三者に対して使うのが主です。
ですから「私は疲れている」という表現が為された場合でも、その英訳はI’m tiredであって、直訳すればI've been tiredであり、I am being tiredではない。英語ではI’m tiredとしか訳しようがない。
結局は、「私は疲れた」の結果が継続していることの強調としてしか「私は疲れている」は意味をなさない。だから、意味を英訳すれば両者ともI’m tiredにしかならない。
「凹む」も感覚の表現なので同じことで、それ自体が状態の継続を含んでいます。てすから、「凹んでいる」は進行形ではなく完了の結果の継続です。
>>78522513
above
こういう感じね
>>
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So basically I just have to memories all the word that pops up right?
>>
>>78524138
Memorise
>>
日本語を辞めて自殺しない理由は一つでもあるか?
>>
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It's not common or grammatically correct to omit に from X ように Y, is it?
>>
>>78524290
I think it's colloquial. You hear it often enough.
>>
https://kuis.repo.nii.ac.jp/?action=pages_view_main&active_action=repository_view_main_item_detail&item_id=144&item_no=1&page_id=13&block_id=17
that relates to 人称制限.

In 感情述語, a prototype of 用言 can be used in only the first person in principle.
(※用言:verbs and adjectives)
凹むわー is one of exclamatory sentences.
An exclamatory sentence is made from a prototype of 用言.

(私は)痛い → 痛っ!
あなたは/彼は痛たがっているようだ

(私は)困る → 困るわー
あなたは/彼は困っているようだ (彼は困る means "he annoys me" usually)
>>
>>78524138
Just grade it according to how well you recognize it.
Don't worry too much about trying to remember, just keep using Anki and you'll remember it eventually.
>>
チンコはどのぐらい長い?
>>
ペットボトルくらい
>>
Ching chong Nagasaki ping pong
>>
>>78527093
それが違うぞwww
>>
I'm very scary! Lets talking :)

I feel sreepy. oyasumi
>>
>>78527166
but it's only 10pm
>>
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割礼を受けてる?
>>
>>78527181
actually it seems the only way to get anki to actually reset in the middle of the night after the time switch is to do it twice in one day so i gotta stay up for another half hour or so.
>>
>>78524290
単なる使役構文です
助動詞「せる」がkeyです
Xに~をさせる
で「よう」は勧誘で単にpleaseとかshouldの意味を添えているだけです

よつばにぜいたくさせない
do not let Yotuba be luxurious.

よつばにぜいたくさせないよう
please don't let Yotuba be luxurious.

よつばにぜいたくさせないよう言っておく
I tell you that you shouldn't let Yotuba be luxurious.
まあ、意味的にはwouldn'tという感じだが間接の命令文なので shouldn'tに変えた
>>78526264
17cm
>>78527343
ちゃんと剥けました
>>
>>78525464
人称制限は日本語の場合、形容詞に強くあらわれ(特に「好き」とか「嫌い」とか)、じつは「ている」は動詞的過ぎてうまく成り立ちません。
実際、「私は、その時、疲れていた」と「ている」の「過去」なら成立します。

確かに感覚的に「凹んでいる」は第三者に対して使うべきで、一人称では使いたくない。
しかし「凹んだ」が完了なので、「凹んでいた」が大過去のように使われる用法がある。
「私は、その時、凹んでいた」
というように。
「疲れている」と「疲れていた」も同様です。


『日本語の主観的判断を表す動詞や、感情・感覚を表す形容詞には主語の人称制限があるが、はっきりと人称制限が現れるのは、主文のル形の場合のみである。タ形やテイル形、補文においてそれが観察されないのは、統語構造上、文にはモダリティを司る主要部が存在し、そのモダリティ主要部の有無と主語との適合関係が、主語の人称制限と関わるためである』だそうです。
http://ci.nii.ac.jp/naid/110004868229
今回は、将に「ている」形で、しかもaspectというより「主要部」の意思を含んだmood(法)が絡んでくるので、とおり一遍の説明では無理があります。観察者の視点が第3者に向けられているのが「疲れている」や「凹んでいる」ですが、大過去的な用法は「過去の自分」を第3者として捉える視点があるとすれば「凹んでいた」や「疲れていた」にも当てはまるのかもしれない。
いすれにせよ、人称制限としては『タ形やテイル形、補文においてそれが観察されない』ということが指摘されています。
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>>78527728
えぇぇ大いなる切手ですね、銜えたの。
>>
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Sometimes I learn new English words by studying Japanese
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>>78529514
保証人
1 a person who takes responsibility for another's payment
2 a person who gives assurance of responsibility for something, called guarantor
だってさ
>>
>>78529907
I own a dictionary too, friend, I was just sharing that I hadn't heard that term in English before.
>>
Ree why do JLPT signups start two days before results come out?
>>
>>78529514
>>78529974
Have you never lived away from home before?
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>>78529514
at least the meaning is somehow obvious from the name
here are some of the keywords Heisig uses I learned just this past week:
>bequeath
>astringent
>vicarious
>dainty
>facsimile
>marquis
>censure

who here knows more than half of those?
>>
>>78530331
>who here knows more than half of those?
I know all of those words however English is my native language, so it's to be expected.
>>
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>黒く長い髪が印象的な、透き通るような顔立ちの女性だった。
Does it translate to "the girl had impressive black, long hair and clear features"?
Asking because I googled "透き通るような顔立ち" and very few results showed up so maybe I got it wrong.
>>
>>78530690
>透き通るような顔立ち
こういう感じだが、所詮googleでは翻訳は無理でしょう
>>
>>78529514
>american education
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>>78530574

seems like I underestimated that one factor
maybe it's the Americans giving me false illusions
>>
>>78530833
Ok thanks.
I got confused because I found much more people using 透き通るような when they talk about hair rather than facial features.
>>
fuck man. these IRL japanese chill streams are really good for learning, and they're interesting to watch. twitch should have done this sooner.
>>
I'm struggling a lot with these characters:

>実 = じつ/じ
>表 = ひょう/おもて
>発 = はつ/は

Can anyone help me with memorizing these characters? Their cards keep appearing next to each other every session and it's frustrating. Any little hints/advice/mnemonics/pictographic clues?
>>
>>78531740
well, I never really had a trick for learning them I just learned a bunch of different words using these kanji and I naturally began to distinguish
>>
>>78531740
As a followup to that, is there any real difference between 実施する and 行う? I still struggle with conjugation on words like 行う without defaulting to adding する on the end.
>>
>>78531717
link
>>
>>78531740
Those are all very common kanji, sooner or later you'll memorize them from exposure, but here are some mnemonics that might help.
>実
It has a "cover", as in "uncovering the truth".
>発
Think of the four strokes protruding from the top half as bullets or beams or something like that being discharged.
>>
>>78531740
you could try
https://hochanh.github.io/rtk/rtk1-v6/index.html
I don't know how useful it is if you can't name the radicals
>>
>>78531740
発 has "口" in the middle and I associate it with some kind "starting/sending point" ,
>>
>>78532239
this shitty website won't let me post a link, but if you search on twitch for Japan Stream community it should have a bunch of people to choose from
>>
俺が水守で青葉が男だったら惚れていたかもしれない。

Can someone explain to me how が and で function to make this sentence make sense? I feel like I understand every part of it besides what 水守で青葉が means/refers to. Which means I don't understand the sentence at all =/
>>
>>78533676
俺が水守だったら
そして
青葉が男だったら
>>
>>78534270
I'm still not sure I understand. How is で functioning? I don't understand the comparison/relation of 俺, 水守, and 青葉
>>
>>78537212
It's the 連用形 of だ, meaning "and".
>>
>>78530331
I'm the one that made that first post about not knowing guarantor, and I knew all of those. It's just not a commonly used word in America, I guess.
>>
1/3ほど出来たけど腰が弱いから今日はここまで
Just saw this on Twitter and it made me wonder: how do nips pronounce " / "?


>>78530331
I know all those words however I didn't come across Astringent until after starting Japanese
>>
>>78530917
>maybe it's the Americans giving me false illusions
Maybe but I doubt it. I've only read maybe half a dozen books as an adult and the rest of my reading comes from, well, the Internet. If anything, I should be less literate than your average educated English speaking native adult.
It's more likely that the original anon who posted the Anki screenshot is under-aged.

>>78539463
This is a good video for that. The older guy is kind of endearing for some reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN16EZROS8M
>>
>>78537825
thanks
>>
こんにちは。今日は日差しが強くて部屋から出たくありません。
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>>78514610

Thank you for the exhaustive reply. I get it now.
奥が深いっていうか、深すぎ。まあ、とにかくtenseの話に戻ろう。

>かっきり1時間前にしか作業を始めないため、乗客は10人ほど建物の外で待っていました。

英語に訳すとこのような文になるかな。「かっきり」抜きだけど。無理矢理「just」や「exactly」を入れたところで変に聞こえるだけなんだから。
>Since baggage inspection isn't conducted until an hour before boarding, about ten people were waiting outside the building.
そして、君の文を見よう
>about 10 passengers waited outside the building because they had not started their work until just one hour before the flight

語呂があんまり良くないけど文法的な間違いはない。だが微妙な問題点は3つあるかな。
>1.「theyって誰?」
"about 10 passengers waited outside the building because they had not started their work" はなんかpassengersのworkに聞こえる。誰でも「ああ、保安職員のことか」と気付くだろうけどそれでも曖昧な書き方を避けた方がいい。直接に"the security officers"を言う、またはsubject(主語?)を抜きにしてpredicate(荷物検査)を述べるだけ。たとえば"the baggage inspection had not started" (荷物検査がまだ始まらなかった)
>2.「workって何?」
"work"はそんなに必要ないな。"the security officers had not started"だけ言うなら"the security officers had not started their work"はちょっと情報過剰。彼らがすることは"work"(作業、即ち荷物検査)だと言えなくても分かるから。或いは、問題点1で言ったように主語を抜きにしたら、間接的な"work"の主語がなくなり、曖昧になる。「workって何?」って。この場合なら"work"より本体の"baggage inspection"(荷物検査)を言えないといけないな。どちらの場合でも"work"自体は必要ないと思う。
>3.「tenseは危険物」
さっき、君の英文には文法的な間違いはないと言ったが、それは英文自体だ。私は間違いないなら、問題は、和文のtenseを変えたことだと思う。言っておくがこれは私の日本語読解力の問題でもある。
>かっきり1時間前にしか作業を始めないため、乗客は10人ほど建物の外で待っていました。
私の読解力が足りてるなら、この和文では、保安職員は作業を始めたかどうかと言うことは曖昧、または作業をまだ始めなかったことを示しているだと思う。これは間違いなら教えて下さい。
そして君の英文を見てみよう。
>about 10 passengers waited outside the building because they [保安職員] had not started their work until just one hour before the flight
和文にひきかえ、"had not started their work"の部分ははっきりと「保安職員はもう作業を始めた」と言っている。だからここで (>>78498591) 「この文のtense(時制?)はなんか変と思います」と言った。大きな誤りじゃないけどちょっとだけ意味をかえることから教えた方がいいと思った。

問題点終わり!と言ってもまだ2つの小さなことはまだ残ってる。
1.ここ(>>78500479)で「確かに、they did not started their workでよかったな。」と言った。が、「did not started」は間違い。君の最初の「had not started」は間違いない。
2.同じレスで「Baggage check was carried out an hour before boarding.」が、英語で「checking bags」は飛行機の中に持っていく荷物を検査されることではなく、検査を受ける前に航空会社の社員に荷物を預けることです。
>>
>>78545422
修正
*和文にひきかえ、"had not started their work until just one hour before the flight"の部分ははっきりと「保安職員はもう作業を始めた」と言っている。
>>
>>78545422
また修正。ごめん
*2.同じレスで「Baggage check was carried out an hour before boarding.」と言ったが、英語で「checking bags」は飛行機の中に持っていく荷物を検査されることではなく、検査を受ける前に航空会社の社員に荷物を預けることです。
>>
>>78540371
guarantor really isn't a common word, but it's the type of thing you know the meaning of just by knowing "guarantee" so I think most of us just don't even think about it when we see it.
>>
>>78546449
>guarantor really isn't a common word
That's really only relevant to learners, not natives. Words like guarantor are learned when we learn about interest rates and mortgages during mathematics class in high school.
>>
>>78546686
or the first time you see it because it's obviously based on guarantee and has the ~or suffix for "one that does X"
>>
>>78546686
> Words like guarantor are learned when we learn about interest rates and mortgages during mathematics class in high school.

Sounds like your math classes were like twice as boring and shitty as normal
>>
>>78517970

Stop shilling here kanadajin.
>>
>>78529514

t. I've never rented an apartment.
>>
>>78530243

If you're applying for SOAS better apply the minute they open, fills up fast. If you're applying for Edinburgh I imagine you'd have more time. SOAS in July was busy as fuck, can't imagine how busy December will be.
>>
>>78530331

To native English speakers, if you don't know these words maybe studying English is a better plan than studying Nipponese.
>>
>>78530331
>>astringent
Only one I didn't. My excuse is I'm a STEMfag that's barely touched non documentation related writing since middle school. At this rate I think there may come a point in time where my Japanese lexicon is larger than my English one.
>>
>>78530331
I do but I'm a native english speaker

A lot of those words are very useful to accurately describe a particular situation or experience and are good to know

Except for Marquis

You won't need marquis ever.
>>
>>78549020
if you use vicarious or astringent in daily conversation you're an antisocial tool
>>
>>78549020
>A lot of those words are very useful to accurately describe a particular situation or experience
Except for their jargon uses, no, they are not more "accurate" than normal words at all. If anything they're even more ambiguous. They're so uncommon that native speakers will not acquire their "proper" definitions and will not understand what you mean when you say/write them outside of a technical context.

Except for bequeath and dainty, of course, those are ordinary words.
>>
>>78549083
vicarious is pretty ordinary
>>
>>78549153
the layman's understanding of "vicarious" is basically as a generic emphatic word with no nuance
>>
>>78549083
Vicarious is a common banter word
Astringent is a flavor descriptor
Bequeath is really only used to describe when something is left to someone else after death
Censure is less common

I use everything but marquis, facsimile and censure at least once a week. Not knowing those words isn't exactly necessary but if you haven't encountered them you haven't had many conversations.
>>
>>78549200
What the hell are you talking about?
Vicarious is used in common parlance to describe a particular experience, the most common being "I live vicariously through them/you/him/her/it"

If you don't know that common usage of the word then I don't know how you graduated high school.
>>
>>78549259
>Vicarious is a common banter word
Maybe in your particular social region but not in the anglosphere at large.

>Astringent is a flavor descriptor
Yes, that's its jargon use.

>Bequeath is really only used to describe when something is left to someone else after death
And accordingly it's within an order of magnitude as common as "pass away".
>>
>>78549307
yeah no people don't use that word that much in 21st century, don't know how old you are but it's basically not used anywhere near as often as it was 50 years ago
>>
>>78549307
>If you don't know that common usage of the word then I don't know how you graduated high school.
If someone who doesn't know it probably hasn't graduated high school, it's not English.
>>
Sooo...
How about that 日本語?
>>
>>78549348
Except people do use it. Just accept that maybe your experience is different than other peoples instead of trying to insist that anything you don't know must be useless. That attitude is really bad for learning japanese btw.
>>
>>78549539
people use it as a generic emphatic word, not for the meaning it had 50 years ago. if you can't define it without checking a dictionary then it's not a precise word.
>>
>>78549564
No, nobody has ever fucking used it for emphasis. People use it to mean exactly what >>78549307
said. It's a specific enough usage that it's not really something you can get wrong.
>>
>>78549386
>one-day-old babies probably haven't graduated high school
>one-day-old babies do not know any English
>if these people do not know words, which they don't any, it's not English
>therefore English does not exist
hurr

>>78549564
I agree with >>78549307, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about as "generic emphatic word." People use the word vicarious... exactly how its meaning intends it to. Have you ever heard someone actually say "dude that was so vicarious"? Are you just making shit up? It's a fairly common word and I have never had to look it up, I've just always known it.
>>
>>78549640
>No, nobody has ever fucking used it for emphasis
congratulations, you're objectively wrong
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>>78549651

Well, either you're lying or hanging out with retards who use words they don't know the meanings of.
>>
>>78549697
you might want to look up "nobody" and "ever"
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>>78549723
you might want to look up "figurative speech"
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>>78549646
>It's a fairly common word
It's like 1.6 parts per million in written English. That's not going to translate to "fairly common" in speech, the actual language.
>>
>>78549737
you might want to look up "objectively"
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>>78549723
Go to Google and limit hits for ' vicarious' to the last hour, I just checked and they were all the correct usage. Anyone using it for emphasis would sound very foolish. I've also never actually heard anyone say it in real life, but I live with white trash.
>>
What sort of lives are you goons living where "vicarious" is a word you use often?
>>
>>78549895
The lives of 30+ year old upper class white male college graduates.
>>
>>78549887
>Used in names
>Wikipedia
>News sites
>Results where it's not in the previous because Google is actually matching a synonym even though I'm using quotes

Meanwhile:

>The american vicarious will present the world premiere of Thomas Klingenstein's If Only
>>
>>78549961
not in the previews*
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Used emphatically in an academic paper
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>>78549764
Fairly common in that anyone with a decent exposure to the language will have heard it before. Moreso in middle class and above upbringings since people in lower class families are gonna have smaller vocabularies.

>>78549778
So you're saying that you recognized that guy was using figurative speech, and still called him out for being "objectively" wrong? Do you break into a fit every time someone says "nobody cares" and say "YOU'RE OBJECTIVELY WRONG, BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE CARE"? It seem you really do have a poor understanding of language.

>>78549895
Take a look at pic related. I don't know if you pay any attention to video games but Crash Bandicoot is making a big splash last few months. Made by, you guessed it, Vicarious Visions. Naturally I'd heard the word before this but there's just one example off the top of my head in common usage.

>>78549924
Ha, no. Try <20 year old middle class white male college students. And I'm really not well-read either, you don't have to be Shakespeare to have heard this word before.

>>78549961
"the american vicarious" is the name of a theatre company you tard.
>>78550027
Not used in the way you claim, just bad reading comprehension on your part.
>>
>>78550065
>Fairly common in that anyone with a decent exposure to the language will have heard it before
"heard it before" does not mean "heard it enough to use it correctly".

>people in lower class families are gonna have smaller vocabularies
This is a classist myth. People in lower classes have vocabularies just as detailed as people in upper classes. People in upper classes just afford to learn common words less and rare words more.
>>
>>78550065
>So you're saying that you recognized that guy was using figurative speech, and still called him out for being "objectively" wrong?
I dunno man have you heard of something called figurative speech

>Take a look at pic related.
yes anon, people use all sorts of weird words in company names. I don't know what you're trying to prove. is this the real face of upper class sheltering?
>>
>>78550065
>Not used in the way you claim, just bad reading comprehension on your part.
It is in fact being used emphatically there. "resolution of ... the gap between our expectations and our ignorances" can not be vicarious. You are not reading it correctly, which isn't surprising, considering it's so badly written as to branch of multiple prepositional phrases from the same head without any punctuation.
>>
>>78550065
>Made by, you guessed it, Vicarious Visions.
Yeah, I know about Crash. But then there's this guy >>78549259 who makes me wonder if he just spends all of his time berating /r9k/ tier NEETs who only watch SoL anime or something by telling them they "only like it because it let's them live vicariously". Who seriously uses that word at least once a week if it's not being used as a noun. I'm not upper class but my best friend is a 1%er and I've never heard him or his family drop that word.
>>
>>78550134
branch off*
>>
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Considering the fact that normal people can't define "transient", this should say a lot.

>>78550200
Yes, he's a pretentious fuck who subconsciously thinks he's cool for using this word a lot. And he obviously knows it's not normal considering he bragged about the fact that he uses it often when he brought it up. Nothing worse than a pseudointellectual who hasn't left the isolated environment of their education yet.
>>
>>78550282
holy shit is this real?
please don't let this be real
>>
>>78550191
I googled "vicarious resolution" and found the same guy using that phrase in a bunch of other papers.
http://heart.bmj.com/content/91/9/1173.responses
https://www.karger.com/Article/PDF/117222

>"Such theories, like myths, offer a vicarious resolution of the ignorances that lies between our insecurities and our expectations."

Myths offer a "vicarious" resolution. It's confusingly written but the correct usage.
>>
>>78550110
Oh yeah I'm sure Bill Gates knows the word "antidisestablishmentarianism" but not the word "shirt" because rich people learn rare words but not common ones. What the fuck are you even talking about? It's not classist to state that upper class people have larger vocabularies, it's just a fact. Better access to education = more reading = larger amount of words.

>>78550134
>I dunno man have you heard of something called figurative speech
Do you mean to tell me you used the phrase "objectively wrong" figuratively? If so, bravo, you've out-memed me. I don't really give a shit though, his point, which I agree with, is that most people use the word vicariously how it's intended and you haven't done too much to prove otherwise. Not that I will ever believe you even if you dumped a lake of evidence, because in my life I have only ever heard it used correctly.
>upper class sheltering
Okay believe whatever you want dude.

>>78550200
I'm not that guy, I don't use any of those words weekly, and it'd be kind of strange if you did. But I do use vicarious reasonably often and occasionally astringent when describing taste. And very occasionally marquis if I'm talking about the Marquis de Sade or Marquis de Lafayette. But I'm sure someone like >>78550282 would jump out and censure me for it if I used any of them (see what I did there?). Nothing pisses me off more than people who call me pretentious for using words when they're just part of my natural vocabulary.
>>
>>78550418
That is not a correct usage of the word "vicarious". I don't know what you think it means but it does not mean "fictitious" or "indirect". It means substituting one thing for another for normal words and sympathetic/empathetic for words of subjective feelings. "Vicarious atonement" is valid because one person is substituting for another, "vicarious joy" is valid because you're experiencing joy through sympathizing with external joy, "vicarious resolution" is not valid, there's no way to interpret the meaning of "vicarious" there.
>>
>>78550506
Seems that author is just using the word to mean "indirectly" then without knowing the nuance.
>>
>>78550444
>Oh yeah I'm sure Bill Gates knows the word "antidisestablishmentarianism" but not the word "shirt" because rich people learn rare words but not common ones.
Apparently you really do learn common words in less detail. "to learn common words less" does not mean to learn fewer common words, it means to learn common words with less precision. The human brain automatically fills its capacity to understand language.
>>
You could be reading Japanese right now.
>>
>>78550554
Yes, and their choice to use it instead of a normal word can only for emphatic purposes. It's the academic version of purple prose, and it's fucking awful.
>>
Daily English Thread
(by the way, I knew all the words in >>78530331)
>>
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>>78550444
>Nothing pisses me off more than people who call me pretentious for using words when they're just part of my natural vocabulary.
Yeah, if this happens remotely often, this is a "you" problem.

You're antisocial, speaking to people in a version of English that they don't understand, and not bringing yourself up to their level. This isn't a positive quality, it's something you need to control.

Choosing inappropriate words is not a mark of your personality, it just means that you're socially inept. People are supposed to code switch to versions of the language that are mutually developed on a personal level. If this doesn't happen with you there's something wrong with you.
>>
>>78550603
You should already know by now people with American flags love arguing.
>>78550658
And there it is, the Brazilian flag mid-argument interjection.
>>
>>78550566
My point is, words like "shirt" don't really have precision to them, do they? If you're going to make the point that lower-class people have wider slang vocabularies then fine but I don't think that can compare to the amount of new words that a ton of reading would give you.

>>78550658
I started a list of words every time I see a new one in English, just for fun. I didn't expect it to be hundreds of words long in just a few months.

>>78550672
It has never happened to me in real life but has happened multiple times from netizens who want to police my vocab level on a platform where the definition of any word at all is one click away. I don't code switch on the internet and if anything make an effort to use new vocab I've picked up in order to learn them better.
>>
>>78550758
>My point is, words like "shirt" don't really have precision to them, do they?
They do. The word "shirt" can take on a variety of nuances depending on the context and situation, no different than learning two or three definitions for less common words.

"Shirt" excludes undershirts in many regions unless additional specification is added.

"Shirt" can be a verb describing putting a shirt on something.

It might be completely wrong where you live to call a long-sleeved shirt a "shirt" if it's slightly thick and goes on over a thin short-sleeved shirt.

Person X might have a speech pattern where "my shirt" always refers to a long-sleeved button up, and to refer to general shirts in their possession, they only say "my shirts" or "a shirt", always avoiding the phrase "my shirt".

These are all real examples that applied to at least two different case studies in a paywalled article on regiolect variations for common vocabulary. Normal words have various situational and phrasal restrictions that are very hard for second-language learners to acquire naturally, but are necessary to have a subconscious awareness of in order to sound natural.

Additionally, awareness of unspeakable dialectal word usage patterns is inversely correlated with breadth of literary vocabulary. There's a reason there are people that "talk like a book". They substitute word choice rules for rarer words or additional descriptive terms.
>>
I don't understand something about the JLPT N5. There's vocabulary in these required vocabulary lists, that include kanji that aren't part of the required kanji for the N5.

Does that mean I wouldn't have to know that kanji for those words, but only how they are written/sound in kana? I'm looking at a practice exam, and for example, きのう is just written out. I assume this is because the 昨 in 昨日 isn't part of the JLPT N5 required kanji?

... please respond...
>>
>>78550995
JLPT doesn't have official vocab or kanji lists anymore, just study Japanese.
>>
>>78550890
>It might be completely wrong where you live to call a long-sleeved shirt a "shirt" if it's slightly thick and goes on over a thin short-sleeved shirt.

True, I'd call that a pullover or potentially a sweater but never a shirt. But is Joe the Plumber really that much more adept at understanding the intricacies of the word "shirt" than Bill Gates? Not that Bill Gates necessarily has a huge breadth of literary vocabulary but you get the point. Even if your studies say that that's the case I don't know if I believe it. That would mean the only way I could become an expert on the word "shirt" would be to avoid acquiring any new vocabulary which just sounds stupid.
>>
>>78551017
I know it's unoffical know, do you understand my question though?
>>
>>78551039
>But is Joe the Plumber really that much more adept at understanding the intricacies of the word "shirt" than Bill Gates
Yes.

>That would mean the only way I could become an expert on the word "shirt" would be to avoid acquiring any new vocabulary which just sounds stupid.
It's the opposite of stupid. Except for jargon, which doesn't have a correlation, there's no point in having an extensive literary vocabulary, only a basic one. Do you care about understanding 1% more of an obscure novel or do you care about not misunderstanding people in real life and on the internet?
>>
>>78551126
>Yes.
Like I said man I don't really believe you. You can cite as many studies as you want but I won't be convinced. Like I said I can totally see lower class people who grew up on the streets having a wider vocabulary of slang, that's just obvious that that would happen. But you're not going to get me to believe that Juan knows the essence of "shirt" better than Melvin just because Melvin goes to the library all the time.

>Do you care about understanding 1% more of an obscure novel or do you care about not misunderstanding people in real life and on the internet?
I reject your dichotomy and the science backing it.
>>
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16.jpg
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>>78452547
two questions, please help

firstly, you know how Anki states x amount of cards studied in x minutes today? is there an addon or something that makes it shows the actual number of cards passed and not just reps? as in studied 100 cards in 10 minutes but 30 of them had again hit, so a more statement would be
>Studied 70 cards in 10 minutes today
it kind of bugs me.

second question, how do you handle an ever expanding mined word backlog? reading for an hour or two or three a day means that far more words are being mined than reviewed
my backlog is over a thousand words by this point and growing.
>>
>>78550995
I believe for most of the kanji on N5, you'll either get furigana or it'll be written in hiragana - the kanji won't be used.
>>
>>78551332
>how do you handle an ever expanding mined word backlog?
That's not a problem at all. If you don't run into the word again before you get to it in Anki then it doesn't matter because you don't need to know the word yet. But if you happen to see the word in the wild again then that's just more natural review.
>>
>>78551332
What's the page from?

Your backlog will start shrinking by 10K or so.
>>
>>78551396
>That's not a problem at all.
clearly is to me or else I wouldn't have postes the question
>But if you happen to see the word in the wild again then that's just more natural review.
that just means looking the word up constantly for me, which is a pain in the arse and the entire reason I started mining, to avoid doing that so often.
looking up the same words is irritating yet the mined words reviewed in anki rarely need to be looked up while reading. maybe it's just being impatient and venting a little

>>78551552
So by around the end of the year, fuck

source is https://nhentai.net/g/186101/
>>
can't find the other japanese thread. I guess they are hiding. can anybody tell me where they went?
>>
>>78552543
Javanese Thread
>>
2 questions - Which is more challenging to read, 惡の華 or ふらいんぐういっち?

And what's the best platform for listening to Japanese music? Right now I'm just listening to different radio stations online and I wonder if there's a better way to keep up to date on J music
>>
>>78550758
>It has never happened to me in real life but has happened multiple times from netizens who want to police my vocab level on a platform where the definition of any word at all is one click away.

because most of them are non-natives who are offended at the idea that they aren't far better at english than native speakers
>>
>>78552703
Both are very easy.
Thread posts: 360
Thread images: 76


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