/lang/ - Language learning

>>77821676
>Language learning resources:
http://4chanint.wikia.com/wiki/The_Official_/int/_How_to_Learn_A_Foreign_Language_Guide_Wiki

http://www.duolingo.com/
>Duolingo is a free language-learning platform that includes a language-learning website and app, as well as a digital language proficiency assessment exam. Duolingo offers all its language courses free of charge.

>>>/t/746368
>Torrents with more resources than you'll ever need for 30+ languages.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B9QDHej9UGAdcDhWVEllMzJBSEk#
>Google Drive folder with books for all kinds of languages.

https://fsi-languages.yojik.eu/languages/oldfsi/index.html
>Drill based courses with text and audio.The Foreign Service Institute (FSI) is the United States federal government's primary training institution for employees of the U.S. foreign affairs community.These courses are all in public domain and free to download.Site may go down sometimes but you can search for fsi on google and easily find a mirror.

https://www.memrise.com/
>Free resource to learn vocabulary, nice flash cards.

https://lingvist.com/
>It's kinda like Clozemaster in the sense that you get a sentence and have to fill in the missing word, also has nice statistics about your progress, grammar tips and more information about a word (noun gender, verb aspects for Russian, etc.)

ankisrs.net/
>A flash card program

https://www.clozemaster.com/languages
>Clozemaster is language learning gamification through mass exposure to vocabulary in context.Can be a great supplementary tool, not recommended for absolute beginners.

https://tatoeba.org/eng/
>Tatoeba is a collection of sentences and translations with over 300 hundred languages to chose from.

radio.garden/
>Listen to radio all around the world through an interactive globe

https://forvo.com
>Has pronunciation for lots of words in lots of languages

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http://www.effectivelanguagelearning.com/language-guide/language-difficulty
>Check out information about languages and their difficulties

http://lexicity.com/
>An invaluable resource for comparative language study as well as those interested in ancient languages

http://cosmogyros.tumblr.com/post/108962232110/huge-new-language-learning-collection
>A very extensive language learning collection for 90+ languages.

http://www.dliflc.edu/resources/products/
>Similar to FSI, drill-based courses with text and audio issued by the US government.These courses were made for millitary personel in mind unlike FSI.

http://en.childrenslibrary.org
>Lots of childrens books in various languages, categories 3-5yo, 6-9yo, 10-13yo.

https://www.hellotalk.com/#en
>The app is basically whatsapp, but only connects you with people who are native in the language you are trying to learn. It also has a facebook type section where you can share pics and stuff too.

https://www.italki.com/
https://www.mylanguageexchange.com/
https://www.interpals.net/
http://www.gospeaky.net/
https://www.speaky.com/
https://polyglotclub.com/
http://lang-8.com/
>Few more language exchange communities like Hellotalk:

http://www.goethe-verlag.com/
>A mostly free site which offers audio and drill like exercises for 40+ languages.

http://www.languagetransfer.org/
>A free resource with recordings to learn a language.

https://babadum.com
>Flash card game with a focus on vocabulary.

http://context.reverso.net/translation/
>A website like Tatoeba (also has a Firefox extension!)

Previous thread: >>77750679

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>>77821724
i fucked up so hard

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>>77821750

>>77821676
Fuck off gypsy

>>77821820
t. somali

>>77821864
I'm not the one spamming Swedish language classes, fuck off, nobody should learn Swedish.

>>77821895
it's just a flowchart jeez
also why not

What have you done today for your language studies?

I just reviewed a duolingo lesson not much desu.

>>77822388
Listening to music in my target language.

https://youtu.be/PDEgsjSZnfc

>>77822694
tfw the only German songs I know are rap and hip hop
Can anyone recommend better songs?

>>77823095
rammstein : ^)

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>>77822388
I listened/did Pimsleur Spanish Lesson 21 today on the way to work. I'll replay it again on the way home.

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Why do Spanish speakers scream so much?

whats the difference between tù and ti in Spanish?

>>77824807
Ti is either the accusative or dative form I think. Not learning Spanish so might be wrong.

>>77822694
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AuTDKjfdyc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy1Gd3PfhFs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxaa3AG9Z8s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hQCKkqmDlw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGa5-nojscY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RW8n4iXZbA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADLXgh1IBeY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hluVrTixQwI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDIBU25z6X4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyN179DDJjU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhDlMVl9p8w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQw6AeAr5bw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDuIh_RvUxk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dP1soraUFY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlp0FdBYubw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU3AXyZQzQ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r2MzXLlvlo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA3NBgktpbw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtsMi4dtl1o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XgAzg40cMw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H450BoeBA8c

Tried to put all sorts of genres and shit.

So, guys, I don't have an uvula, does anyone know if it's possible for me to learn French without sounding like a retard?

I've heard that uvula takes a part in pronunciation of the guttural sounds in French and Hebrew.

Where do I go after completing spanish on Duolingo?

Is there something for free or is it shekels now?

Currently learning German, I'm having a hard time with pronouns and genders, halp me Hans.
Any German kids books that I can download?

>>77825355
What else have you done?

I'm learning Spanish and I'm using these tools concurrently, but at a slower rate obviously:
Pimsleur Spanish
Michel Thomas
Duolingo
Lingvist

Pimsleur is prioritized for now, and then Michel Thomas I listen to as time allows. Pimsleur isn't my favorite, but it works well in the car. Then at night I'll try to listen to Michel Thomas. Duolingo is alright but I consider it more of a supplement. Lingvist is great for vocab, but I've slowed using it because my vocab is way ahead of my grammar.

how good are the resources for biblical greek and hebrew?

>>77825414
doesn't arabic have cases too?
at least the MSA

>>77825355
How did Duolingo work for you? What's your level now?

>>77821676
where's the german version?

>>77826021
Yes but there are usually rules that help you guess the gender of a word, I'm fluent in French too and it has the same thing, but in German there aren't many

>>77826148
i don't have any, sorry
>>77826150
there are some gender rules in german
look them up

>>77825217
there must be native French speakers who don't have uvulae so it's clearly possible.

>>77826148
No one learning German attempted to make one.

>>77826240
do you know if there is one for polish?

>>77821676
So I'm going to boarding school for my junior year of high school this year and all the classes are college level

Technically I already have all the foreign language credits I need but I want to actually learn a language some.

I'm deciding between Spanish and Japanese, I think I'm gonna end up doing Spanish though. I leared hiragana and katakana through self-study a while back but I don't want to be in a class full of weebs

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>>77826287
OP posted all we have except for this one, so no.

>>77823095
>you should listen to nazi songs desu

>>77825911
>george pell

>>77826364
ok thx

>>77823095
just use Spotify
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQi8zcWWBbk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=funUmy69j4I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hilPSLUFK2Q

>>77826352
learn chinese : ^)

>>77826789
Fuck that shit, that is the ugliest language I've ever had the misfortune of hearing.

>>77826839
but you've got the temperament of spainiards with the soullesness of east asians

>>77821709
>https://fsi-languages.yojik.eu/languages/oldfsi/index.html
Has anyone actually used these to learn german? I've already done some Duolingo and Michel Thomas, looking to expand to something different.

>>77827035
they're used by diplomats, so they're probably useful for the average schlomo

>>77823095
Horst-Wessel Lied

Does anyone know if learning the stroke order of Chinese characters actually helps learn the language? I've heard differing opinions.

>>77826287
A review of the language
https://pastebin.com/4NkHPH8w

A course of the language but it's in Portuguese
http://uploaded net/file/9g3253qw/Curso.Polones.p.Iniciantes.rar

Polishpod101
https://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4315413%20-%202009%20~%202015%20-%209.28%20GB

In Indo-European/Balto-Slavic, get the grammar books
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9QDHej9UGAdNWpOaFBYYjBSZGc

Language Pack
http://web.archive.org/web/20141115180333/http://kickass.to/polish-and-ukrainian-language-learning-pack-updated-t6375974.html

I'd say follow the general guidelines and tips shown in the previous pictures, especially the Swedish one.

>Taarof
I'm barely polite in English, this is gonna be real difficult.

>>77826240
I kinda have one half done for Spanish but embarrassed to post it. I'm such a novice I'm not sure I'm doing anyone much of a service.

>>77827788
Nice, thank you Huebro

>>77823369
How does pimsleur work?

>>77824807
http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/133127/what-is-the-difference-between-te-tu-ti-

>>77825355
Go watch some tv in Spanish, listen to music and learn the lyrics, or read something. Just try to interact consisntently with the language as much as possible.

>>77826352
Just pick the one you like the most. If you learned to read and write in Japanese it's because you liked it, and who attends to that course shouldn't be a concern of yours.

>>77828006
Post it and clarify that it isn't complete yet, and that any kind of help would be helpful.

>>77825074
>>77825189
Wow that's a lot. Thank you for your time.

>>77829277
Lafı mı olur canım benim.

>>77829005
They're about 30 minute long audios that slowly work you up to an ok conversational level I guess.
They have the "lesson 1" of a few languages on their youtube, eg this spanish one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O9Rf02Lxnw

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>>77829005
>How does pimsleur work?
It's a listen and repeat audio learning trainer. I'm not in love with it, but it has been working well as part of a more comprehensive learning package. I'm trying to keep my learning tools diversified.

>Post it and clarify that it isn't complete yet, and that any kind of help would be helpful.
Hm okay. See attached.

>>77829675
that's unironically nice

why would you be shy to post that? I wish my fucking chart (>>77821776) was even half as aesthetic as yours

>>77829675
Your guide looks good desu, please keep at it.

>>77829742
Thank you. I wasn't shy about looks as much as giving advice when I'm still a beginner myself. But, I promise to keep updating it as I get better and find better ways to learn.

I'm also keeping track of my hours, which I think in the end might be useful to some people.

>What language are you learning?
Mandarin Chinese. I don't know where to start. I'm overwhelmed. This is a whole new ballgame compared to German.

>>77829813
Thank you. I will keep at it and publish updates as I get further along, maybe even fairly frequently, so I gave it a version number.

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>>77829675
Don't you mean "...in my case, due to sheer necessity." ?

Also, let's play some http://greatlanguagegame.com/
Fun for the whole family!

I'm very confused by the Persian alphabet, it pretty clearly isn't a pure abjad because they write some vowels, but they're all represented with one of 2 symbols. How do I know what vowel is in a word?

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Just learned the Mari word for "thread" (as in a forum thread or a 4chinz thread)

I'm pleasantly surprised, I had assumed that for such a recent technical word they would have just used the Russian word or something similar.

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YOU DON'T KNOW A THING ABOUT THE SQUAD

>>77830148
>>77830039
Every fucking time I hear Portuguese I guess wrong. My brain keeps expecting something Spanish sounding but it sounds more like fucking Russian or something.

>>77830039
No near. Meaning "It's almost a necessity"

I live in Miami and I have a workforce that almost solely speaks Spanish. I'd like to be able to communicate with them even though not a job requirement (I think it should be desu).

>>77830272
ya tú sabes, wey

>>77830039
>one of the clips is in Quebec French
top lel, I wonder if they did on purpose to pick a difficult/weird dialect or if it was an accident

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Any recs for books/sites on Russian grammar? Duolingo is nice and all but I'm looking for something more focused.
Also what does чe mean, is it slang for something?

https://my.mixtape.moe/fabvgq.webm

this game fukken cheats

>>77830344
Wikipedia usually have really good grammar summaries. Maybe for russian also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_grammar

>>77830272
I've never heard that used in that way.

>>77830344
Russian:

Grammar
http://www.russianforeveryone com/
http://masterrussian com/
goo gl/sLiKvV A Basic Modern Russian Grammar by Eugenia Nekrasova

Courses
http://learnrussian rt com/
https://pushkininstitute ru/
- Russian Course - Nicholas Brown

Books
https://vk com/russian_easy/books

Russian slags teaching your Russian, supposedly.
https://www.youtube com/user/christinakochneva/playlists
https://www.youtube com/channel/UCyJznKYS9kkP7RWWq3YAbFw
https://www.youtube com/user/vanilla167333
https://www.youtube com/channel/UC4-8WZbXxl2186au5BiNqgw

Had to reformat the .com because spam filter.

>>77830344
for what I can remember, чë was like a short form of чтo.

>>77830266
portuguese = drunk spanish

I can't beat that language game because I can fuck all recognize any Indian language.

>>77830756
>>77830963
>>77831238
Alright thanks everyone

>>77825766
Have not really done much else desu senpai.

Was looking at but seems like it is latin american spanish.

>>77826041
Pretty well but I kept forgetting things as completing the tree took a long time for me. If you have time to go back and repeat stuff I guess it works well

any sites/resources for learning Yoruba? I keep trying to find stuff but there's nothing that goes beyond consonant/vowel sounds and numbers

>>77831440
I found this in the tumblr post from the OP, it's from '69 though.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/y21mzpkzwngqqb5/AAD6yaXXIH7PbDUhdNgmmYR_a?dl=0

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>Spend all day prepping to restart Russian this evening.
>New penguin, put Pimsleur on phone, download 10000 anki pack.

>Learn about Song nearly reaching an industrial revultion and watch a video on chinese cooking.


Now i want to learn Chinese.

Why is my brain such a traitorous bastard and is there any way to stop this happening?

http://www.aprendereuskera.com/en/Course%20of%20Basque%202009.pdf

Here's a PDF in English if you want to learn Basque.

There aren't very many resources online for learning Basque, it's rather difficult as a language and there's quite a bit of difference between spoken/colloquial and written Basque, but hopefully some of you get use out of it.

zorte on.

>>77830128
What word do they use? Russian borrows the word "thread" from English. There have been attempts to translate it as "нить" but they don't stick; at most it is sometimes used in thread titles to evoke I assume a formal feeling.

>>77831683
Hить or (((konac))) in croatian kek, it fucking awful in both languages

>>77830344
>>77831238
"Чe" (pronounced "чo") replaces both "чтo" and "чeгo", but in a number of situations it is grammatically incorrect to replace these words with "чe" (learn them yourself by observation). Be very careful, this word marks a very informal or disrespectful type of speech. It's basically borderline profanity.

>>77831960
Lmao, yeah. The Japanese say "thread" (almost) as well so that lent the borrowing some credence too. I'm 100% okay with saying тpeд.

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>>77830963
>I've never heard that used in that way.
It is more slang than proper english. I noticed necessity was spelled wrong too. Update attached.

Over time I'd like to remove the I's and make it a bit less casual maybe. I don't know what is easier for people to read.

>>77830963
>>77832057
I feel like it maybe needs a big flag or something too so people can see what language it is as a thumbnail.

>>77831683
In general dutch, thread or topic is used, but here on /int/ we translate every english term literally. Thus, we have nederdraad, which in german would be NiederDraht

>>77832099
>In general dutch, thread or topic is used
Same. I think I never heard thread before imageboards became a thing, though.

>Thus, we have nederdraad, which in german would be NiederDraht
There's no need for camel case, so just Niederdraht. I don't really care about /deutsch/ but they generally say Thread.

Russian is generally resistant to imported chan culture at this point so greentexting still hasn't become a thing beside crude attempts. I think it is so because it is unclear what verb tense to use whilst greentexting, as every variant sounds off including the infinitive, for some reason. So the greentexting I've seen is limited to lists of nouns.

I've got a question.
Is "thence" still used? I can't recall seeing it anywhere.

>>77833085
And what about "tis' " and "whence"?

>>77833085
Nope, I've never heard it used in normal speech before.

>>77833085
>>77833136
I don't think I've ever seen it outside of older books. Pretty rare. On the other hand, 'whence' is still slightly common in academic settings. "tis" is not used purposely. More of an accident when speaking fast I suppose.

>>77833136
Same for those as well.

>>77821676
I want to learn jap to read a few book series that are never going to get translated to English. They're pretty complex and from what I can see have quite a bit of uncommon vocabulary and a lot of kanji, so how many years should I expect it to take to be able to read then without stopping every ten seconds to look something up? Let's assume I study one hour a day minimum and maybe more on the weekend. A ballpark estimate is fine.

>>77830272
>I'd like to be able to communicate with them even though not a job requirement (I think it should be desu).

Should be the other way around; the spics should use English.

>>77833218
what books?
if they're light novels then remember that young adults are supposed to be able to read them
so like a year of two
although if you're artistic enough less

>>77831683
"apшaш"

It has many different definitions, but one of them is "bunch, bundle, string", thus similar to "thread" in English.

>>77831683
>>77833320
Also, I've only noticed a couple of examples of it being used like this, so it's quite possible that, much like the Russian "нить", it's only used by some people, whereas most people would simply use "тpeд". It's hard to find many examples of either word being used in the context of Mari.

>>77833244
Well, I agree they all should learn English. It is absolutely amazing that they can't, considering after a month of learning Spanish I can already speak more Spanish than many of them can speak English and many of them have been here for a decade or more.

The problem in Miami is you don't need to speak English, there is so much Spanish that English is really just not needed. You don't need it to shop, or go to the doctor, or talk to the police. They have their own little neighborhoods like Hialeah that are Spanish only and not even the store signs are in English.

I for sure have a problem with this attitude, but to make my life easier I'm just going to learn Spanish. I figure it is good for my brain and good for my productivity. Plus if I stay here in Miami it is probably good for my social life.

>>77833445
I'm living in Buffalo and met a Cuban man who said exactly that. He got here in the US and was working in Miami for a while and decided he would get nowhere doing that, so he moved to Las Vegas and started driving cabs. Speaks English very well and probably lives better thanks to it.

>>77833311
Crest/Banner of the Stars and Guin Saga. Had also wanted to read some classic nip poetry but after looking into it I learned that's basically another language so I'll settle for those two for the time being.

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>tfw using duolingo and memrise mid-fap

>>77833445
Also wtf is with hispanic people. I drove down to Miami from Georgia to get on a cruise and stopped by a dollar store to get some sunscreen, and holy fuck. There was a family infront of me in line, a mother and her three daughters, all of them between ages like 10~14, but none of them wore bras. Clearly pubescent girls in tank tops with tits and no bras. What kind of parent lets their children walk around in public like that?

>>77833600
>What kind of parent lets their children walk around in public like that?
Anglo prudeness isn't the norm of this world

>>77833657
are you from quebec? that sounds like some dumb shit a quebkwois would say

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>>77833657
>Anglo prudeness
it's only americans who can be quite retarded on this, but at the same time they're degenerate af

>>77833517
The ones that do speak English immediately get a promotion, not based off their skills, but rather because the engineers can communicate with them. Although generally the more skilled ones are smarter and therefore figure out that they need to learn English.

I'm sympathetic to a point. I'm not very good at language. I'm very scared that I will be too stupid to learn Spanish. But these guys haven't even tried.

>>77833600
They have parties when they turn 15 called a quinceanera where they dress them up and celebrate them becoming women. Sexuality is very accepted. Cubans in general are very sexual. Also on that rice and bean diet they have big tits at a young age, which probably doesn't help.

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>>77833160
>>77833166
Thanks.
I've seen tis' written in the book though.
Here's the most archaic poem y found in it.

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>>77833591
some of those characters are pretty hot. I'm not gay but this guy is a stud. no homo

>>77833742
no bully

>>77833218
Without stopping every ten seconds? 2+ years if you lead a normal life, at least 1 year if you have an autist's dedication. Below 1 year only if you are an autist savant.

Norwegian because it's the most mutually intelligible North Germanic language.

>>77833840
That book has thou in it so take it with a grain of salt

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>>77833750
>be me
>12 years old
>dad turns on the wartime slaughter the gooks graphic depictions of heads exploding from mortar fire movie
>15 second sex scene arrives
>"son, close your eyes, this is too graphic for you"

>>77834325
Me too for that. Even when quite old as banter.

But the omg fapping send you to hell, oh no porn, oh no titties..
also
>muh sex at 18

>>77834417
We're pretty godless except in the flyover states. I was in Oklahoma a few months ago and man oh man god is BIG there.

Hey I'm debating going to France or Italy this winter for my annual I-have-no-family-or-friends-so-spend-time-travelling adventure. Is France worth the trip? I was there when I was like 16, so 15 years ago. I know every city is loaded with tourists, but, is it really bad around the holidays or since it is cooler is it a bit less crowded? I love food, despite being thin, so thought maybe Italy or France might be good this round.

>>77834631
Of course, in the winter you could do stuff in nature. Or profit of the less crowded cities.

Italy is nice too, no huge differences desu

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>want to learn Czech
>all big language apps like Rossetta and DualLingo don't have Czech
>Don't know where to start
>Don't know any Czechs
FUCK

>>77835540
Based on the opinion of some Slovak poster we had recently, Slovak is a better language to learn.

http://desuarchive.org/int/thread/77669887/#77726299

>>77835604
nice, good work

>>77835604
Looks good desu, but do you really watch "Intersection"?

>>77825355
interpals+whatsapp

>>77835601
So Slovak is just an easier Czech, essentially? I mean I knew the two were somewhat mutually intelligible, but I didn't know it was that much.

Now the problem is looking for resources I can access everywhere. Like an app. ._.

>>77835720
Its about hearing the language, not about watching a ten/ten drama

>>77835540
Czech is coming to DL really soon!

>>77833840
I usually consider myself quite fluent in english, but these old books always make me question myself. Just in those two pages there are multiple words of which I have never heard of.

>>77836039
I know it's just funny that specific series got through and reached someone learning the language.

>>77836115
yeah, same here, but they are pretty specific ones, like "fancy" adjectives, objects that you may not even know, and so on. So you shouldn't worry about that.

>>77823369
that water is smarter than both of them combined

>>77836755
I can read those two pages easily though

>>77834793
Thanks. I keep hearing it is an overrun immigrant tourist trap, but never sure if I'm hearing /pol/ or an actual citizen.

>>77836933
You can find a lot of shitskins especially in their designated shitty ghettos

but it's not so bad, i went to paris multiple times recently, barely saw a nig

Why do you guys generally say not to learn 2 languages at the same time? Isn't that what euros do in school?

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>>77830039
>>77830148
>sounds Slavic but I can't understand shit
>no Slavic language to chose from
>click Portuguese
>correct

>>77837397
Highschool class language learning is not the same as serious studying a language. Read http://www.thepolyglotdream.com/learning-more-than-one-language-at-the-same-time/

>>77837397
>in school?
"in school" is a pretty useless way of learning language

There's a reason why "I had x language classes in school, but I've forgotten everything now lol" is one of the most common phrases throughout the world.

Euros don't learn English because of school, they learn it through media.

>>77837519
>>77837589
Damn. I wanted to learn Swedish as well, been doing Japanese for a year and half, to seem less like a weeb.

>>77837397
It slows down you progress, since you have to remember twice the vocabulary, grammar rules, etc. And if the languages are closely related (eg: spanish and portuguese) you may confuse them and switch words between languages.

>>77837519
This, most people in school don't really want to study a language and just memorise the essential to pass the exams. So they don't learn much.

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Does just listening to radio or TV in the language you're trying to learn help? Even if it's just noise?

>>77837913
I'm finding not. I have to actively listen to something for it to make much of a difference desu.

>>77837913
>>77837932
same. passive listening has been a complete failure to me.

I did research and found out that in very specific situations, listening to words at night can increase their retention, but you're talking about a program specifically signed for that purpose.

I think immersion applies more generally to day to day experiences. You walk down a street and see an ambulance, it has "EMERGENCY - MEDICAL SERVICES" on the side. You later see a cop car on the side. "EMERGENCY - DIAL 911". You think, oh! Emergency must mean a crisis or some problem you need help with! And that's how it sticks. That eureka moment sews the word into your brain.

Just listening to bippity boppity gook noise does not have the same effect. I remember the Chinese words for "northern" and "capital" so well specifically because I remember figuring out that Beijing's name literally means Northern Capital (北, 'bei': northern, 京 'jing': capital).

>>77838153
p.s. sorry for spelling im tired af

>>77837913
Not at all. You could use it to get used to the sounds of the language, but you are not going to learn magically a language just by listening to it.
Estás preguntando estupideces.
You are not going to know what that means not even reading it ten thousand times, and with listening it's the same.

>>77837728
Ah, okay. I had the same experience in high school, but thought maybe it was different in other countries.

>>77838192
you said "This question is stupid" amigo :^)

>>77838231
No, but it's related. Try again.

>>77837065
Cool. I might do some research then. I love French food and fine dining. Studying Spanish but probably too soon to go to Spain, going to save that for next years trip.

>>77838153
>>77838192
How about watching childrens shows? I've been considering trying to find young childrens cartoons or something to learn with. Like what a baby would watch. But I've heard kids and adults don't learn the same way.

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>>77838192
I didn't say "magically learn" I'm also studying it. But I don't have any speaking or listening experience.

>>77838375
Well, you didn't especifiy that. Then yes, it will help since you'll get used to the sounds of the language and you'll surely hear and understand vocabulary you learned, and that will reinforce what you already know.

>>77838325
Just imagine that babies and little children are capable of learning and understanding abstract concepts as "imagination" or "thinking". We could barely learn the names of objects, pronouns and some simple verbs without any kind of translation.

>>77838545
I can't even recognise the words I do know.

>>77838375
I've been studying Chinese on and off for a while and I listen to ASMR for personal reasons when I go to bed. So I've recently switched over to a Mandarin native ASMR channel.

It does not help. Really, really. Sometimes you pick up on a phrase you know, like last night I heard 跑步 (pao bu, to run) while she was reading the back of a skin cream label. I figured the label gave specific directions if you intend on running. But what did it say? Apply before running? Re-apply after? Does it claim it stands up to sweat during running? Does it help block sun during running? I have no clue. I just heard running. I know it's on there.

Without active participation it doesn't help. What immersion does is utilize all of your senses. You're standing on the corner of Shanghai and you smell something delicious. You turn your head over and see a man walking past you with a cup of coffee and the aroma washes over you. You look to see where he came from and behold, a storefront window with the word 咖啡 printed in huge oriental letters and a cute girl standing out in front of it, beckoning passing potential customers to come in with the promise of: "ka fei"!

Now you will never forget what 咖啡 means or how it's pronounced because you learned it like a native would.

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>>77838659
>I can't even recognise the words I do know.
iktf. I hope I start making some better progress.

To piggyback on this question about listening to music and passive listening: what are your thoughts on the mimic method? The dude who made it wants to focus on listening and speaking skills over writing and grammar and such. The main claim being that babies and kids learn through listening and speaking before writing. Has any experience with it? Or thoughts as to worrying about grammar after learning the fundamental sounds of the langauge?

Listening to music is useless, I've got 8 years of kpop and don't understand a word

>>77839640
the mimic method is employed by things like duo lingo and rosetta stone but really I think it's shit.

I did Rosetta on and off with Mandarin for about a year and then sat down with some Anki flashcards and busted them out in an hour and felt like I accomplished a lot more than I ever did grinding through nonsense with Rosetta. Even DuoLinog incorporates other elements besides just monkey see, monkey do.

At *SOME POINT* someone has to sit you down and explain what quantifiers are in Chinese and if they don't you're going to sound exactly what you learned to be; a child mimicking nouns and verbs without understanding of how the language is constructed.

>>77839717
Do you know the lyrics of the songs and its translations?

>>77839640
>The main claim being that babies and kids learn through listening and speaking before writing.
the assumption that adults learn things like children is simply wrong to begin with

>>77839640
Don't forget, you went to school for fucking 12 years and you took an English class for at least 7 of those. It was boring, it was shit, but you spake anglish gud cuz of it.

>>77839756
>>77839820
>>77839794
Yeah that's what I was figuring. I was looking through the website on it, and while it's great for teaching yourself HOW to speak/recognize sounds, it doesn't do much for explaining sentence formation or vocab. It seems like an excellent supplement or a tool for someone with a high reading/writing level but other than that, it's fairly hit or miss.
>the assumption that adults learn things like children is simply wrong to begin with
Makes sense. Never thoguht of it like that.

>>77835604
Thanks I'm supposed to be turkish but I never taught with my family

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How would you say
>Medus and Davus are the slaves of Julius
In Latin?

>Medus et Davus sunt servi Iulii
or
>Medus et Davus sunt servi Iuliorum

The other day somme anon posted a link to a professor who claimed that language istn't learnt but acquired - with this comes that the only method that works is listening to or reading things that you understand.

>>77840469
honestly I'm always suspicious of any sort of outlandish claim about language learning, there are so many fucking hacks out there trying to spread their nonsense

All of the actual real non-gimmicky anectodal experience I've heard about language learning (from people who have succeeded) never seem to really support those outlandish claims.

>>77840356
>Medus et Davus servi Iulii sunt.
(I was taught that in general the verb goes at the end, but Latin is very flexibile with word order in general)
It's Iulli, because they're the slaves of a single Julius. Whilst the "of julius" refers to the slaves, they're different parts of the sentence, different cases, so they don't have to agree or whatever you call the matching the ending in english.

>>77840469
Yes, all these people that have actually learned a language have in fact been bamboozled and only think they learned a language.

>>77840602
I watched the videos and he himself was surprised by what his research had shown.

>>77840629
Actually you can't learn a language, only acquire it. It's not a conscious process.

>>77840879
Just when speaking about your mother tongue.

>>77840356
Julii translates to "of Julius"

Juliorum translates to "of Juliuses"

Cases are not some weird logical puzzle mumbo jumbo, they are just another way of saying the same thing that is expressed in English with prepositions and such. If you don't understand this, you will never learn Latin, just saying.

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>>77821676

Hey /lang/

What is learning Romanian like? Difficult? Are there still latin declensions like Portuguese? I hear it is a mixture of romance and slavic languages - I am bilingual French/English if that would help with the vocabulary. Anyone know any good resources?

>>77841545
In it's core is a romance language, but it heavily influenced by slavic languages in both pronunciation and vocabulary. And it still has some cases, unlike the rest of romance languages that already lost them all. If you learned French then (imo) learning Romanian won't be that difficult.

>>77841545
This might help
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xVkRh7mEe0

>>77842268
>>77841730


Thank you ! Appreciate it greatly, I'm an absolute beginner

>>77841008
Exactly! If you have to construct sentences in your head before saying them, does this count as knowing a language?

I going to try this theory by focusing my studies around listening and reading comprehension, to give myself the best environment for acquisition.

This does not mean passive listening and skipping grammar, quite the opposite - as understanding all the input is the key.

>tfw you listen to native speakers speak
>you start to recognize the words they're saying
>tfw your brain works too slowly to comprehend the sentence and they're already four sentences past the words you recognized

feels pea brain, man

>>77842664
It depends greatly on the language's difficulty though. I never read anything related to grammar in English, and I sucked at it in school, and here I am. I learned it just by translating word by word and trying to figure out the meaning of expressions. But as I said previously, English grammar is pretty easy from the point of view of an European language speaker.
What language are you studying anyway?

>>77841545
it'd be slightly harder than other romance languages
contrast english vs german
romanian is like german since it's more conservative
but not by that much
have you tried duolingo?
also obligatory why not learn spanish it's better

>>77842698
don't be a downer ye cunt
look at the bright part!
you actually recognized words in native speech!
you couldn't do that at the beginning could you?
feel the progress baby!

Why is it easier to learn a new vocab word in your native language?
Hearing it once is usually enough to remember.

For example I just started cycling so now I've added loads of words to my voab like "crankset", "down-tube shifters". "bar tape".

>>77843546
>why is it easier to learn csgo rather than age of empires when i'm a cs 1.6 veteran

>>77843546
etnymologically words are very similar in your own language. for instance, i spelled the word etnmyolgcial wrong because it's latin.

>>77843546
Honestly I find it easier to pick up new words in foreign languages, it's just the grammar and stuff that catches me out

>>77843980
What are you studying?

>>77844071
Latin

>>77843381
>also obligatory why not learn spanish it's better

Ill be studying in cluj-napoca for several months out of my Erasmus program and want to speak the local language. Do you not like it when foreigners learn Romanian?

Also do you know anything about Cluj? Is it a nice city etc? Thank you Romanianon

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>>77844297
unfortunately i don't know much about clewwwwwj other than memes and it being a regional capital since i'm from the south
there's about 15% hungarians there so you might wanna pick up a bit of hungarian to open the whole city to you
post if you want me to clarify something since im often here

>>77835604
Shit man I was hoping someone would make a Turkish version, tessekurler!

>>77837397
With terrible success. Ask finns about how much swedish they learned in school. If they did learn it, ask about what other language they studied and how well that went.

I'm sure you can find someone who thinks it worked out...

ps. I supposedly studied swedish for years in school. I can just about say what my name is and some random words.

>>77845615
desu i'd blame teaching techniques and lack of interest on that one
if you truly wanted to learn swedish you'd have prob sought out swedish media and shit

>>77842866
I'm learning Latvian and would estimate my level to almost A2. My method uptil now has been based on repetition of wordlists and grammar. Also I have been talking to myself and describing pictures (wasted time according to acqusition-theory). Been making good progress and I now have the grammar memorized, but when put under stress and trying to have conversations with native speakers I freeze and mess up. No instinct and just mechanical following of the rules in my head.

Not going to try and force speech for now, if acquisition theory is correct speech will come by itself. Just try to follow up and build on those sentences that plop up by themself.

>>77845678
True, but if you are busy studying a bunch of other stuff, including weird grammar shit for your own language and english (in most cases), it's pretty hard to find motivation and time for it.

Also the grammar stuff for finnish didn't stick, at all, either. It seemed so irrelevant when you could already speak your own language well.
Turns out it would have been beneficial to understand the concepts when learning other languages.

>>77846081
>True, but if you are busy studying a bunch of other stuff, including weird grammar shit for your own language and english (in most cases), it's pretty hard to find motivation and time for it.
during school you probably have the most free time

>Also the grammar stuff for finnish didn't stick, at all, either. It seemed so irrelevant when you could already speak your own language well.
Turns out it would have been beneficial to understand the concepts when learning other languages.
truthfully,your case is special
understanding finnish grammar woul have only come in handy if you studied hungarian or estonian or other uralic lingos

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>>77830039
>Hausa
Never heard even the name before.

I guess mixing up arabic and turkish isn't terrible.

>>77846157
>during school you probably have the most free time
Yeah if you slack and don't actually study. Then you end up like me and don't remember anything.

>>77846157
Grammar is the same for all languages, pronouns, indirect and direct objects, nouns, adjectives, verbs, participles and even prepositions exist in finnish.

>>77846080
I personally think it is the other way around. Don't try to follow the grammar as strict rules. I mean, they are necessary, but you have to acquire them more naturally, and not just rough memorization.

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>>77846259
Alright I've had enough of this. Is this supposed to be funny?

Found the video posted some days ago. I encourage those interested to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh6Hy6El86Q

>>77823095
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxuEtL7gxoM&list=RDIxuEtL7gxoM

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>>77848334
Enjoying this, thank you.

>>77826148
Bump for this.

>>77843439

:) thanks fella

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>radio station's website is down
>from the looks of it, they literally forgot to renew their domain name
man, learning a language which only has one (1) radio station is suffering

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>>77850774
What language?

>>77822388
spanish conjugation / vocab anki flashcards

>>77850786
He's our resident Mari learner.

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>>77821676
It's a long shot, but does anyone know if there are videos on Youtube (or other resources) learning the Hebrew alphabet to people who already know the Arabic alphabet?

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>>77850786
Mari

no bully pls

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>>77850961
But why? :o

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>>77850961
I'm curious, why Mari?

i need some spanish listening practice, who are some qt spanish speaking youtubers or something

>>77850980
>>77850982
I've long been interested in Uralic (especially Finno-Ugric) languages, but until now I never got around to actually studying one. Then one day for no particular reason I was just reading on Mari, and suddenly I felt compelled to actually do it, probably just autism combined with the fact that I have a soft spot for minority languages. Also I like how it sounds.

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Anyone learning a language for job prospects? What jobs, country?

>>77825355
do the reverse tree

>>77833840
Native speaker and I didn't know eventide, groschen, and raiment.

>>77833840
yeah mate this is nonsense. how old is this book? if it's before the declaration of independence it ought be burned or at least not be considered English.

For the Russian in Germany (or anybody else willing to help), concerning that discussion we had the other day about лe/лэ, does this sound good to you or not?

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1FTjW4iWtEw

I'm trying to avoid overpalatalization, but I'm afraid of focusing too much on that at the cost of the more important part (i.e. getting the consonant right).

Also, to your Russian-speaking ears, does the second pronouncation here (by user "AqQoyriq") sound palatalized? In that specific word it's supposed to be a palatalized л, and in the first pronounciation I can hear it, but in the second one I can't:
https://forvo.com/word/chm/%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5/#chm

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>>77851486
It's not too bad

>>77851226
well, eventide is kinda deductible.

>>77851486
it isn't old at all, it was printed in 1951 (I think), but it has some really old poems and it's pretty interesting seeing words like thee, hast, knowest, etc.

>>77851704
>deductible

That means ''can be subtracted''...you're looking for ''can be deduced''

>>77851783
thanks for the correction.

>>77824807
>Tú tienes un regalo para mí?
>You have a gift for me?
>Yo tengo un regalo para tí.
>I have a gift for you

It's like the difference between I and Me in English, but for you (singular)
btw I'm not actually argentine and just here for vacation

>>77839717
Same here. More than ten years of korean media (music tv movies) and the language sounds at this point like my own, I did not bother to learn that much. I hear everything but cannot understand much :^)

>>77844297
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzKrAcUGNwkSMOhLgNuQAwg

When I tried Romanian, this channel was a nice help. I gave up tho because I was not going to Romania anymore for work.

>>77825217
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0gc6IbHmGfn

I am starting to translate a 12 minute news clip from German to English

>>77851514
>http://vocaroo.com/i/s1FTjW4iWtEw
That "лe" syllable sounds within the range of a native Russian speaker's pronunciation to me. If you are always able to make this kind of sound, you would never, ever be in trouble for it. If you really desire exact feedback, then at the risk of giving you the wrong idea, I can note that it sounds a bit too careful for regular speech, so I would call it "overarticulated" in that regard, but speaking at a normal speed would take care of that.

What befuddles me is the second consonant, though. Is that a Mari word? That sound doesn't exist in Russian.

>Also, to your Russian-speaking ears, does the second pronouncation here (by user "AqQoyriq") sound palatalized? In that specific word it's supposed to be a palatalized л, and in the first pronounciation I can hear it, but in the second one I can't:
https://forvo.com/word/chm/%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5/#chm
I hear it clearly as phonemically "soft" (I will use this term instead of referencing palatalization). I do not have even a single doubt that this is a "soft" л. It's as clear as day to me.

>>77851514
>>77856332
Also, it might be of interest to you that Russian speakers perceive all or almost all instances of L in French to be soft, and generally think of French as a language where all the L's are soft.

English L's are all seen to be hard, except obviously before "ee" and such.

>>77851032
I work for a company as an engineer and have about 70 Spanish speaking people working in the manufacturing line. I'd like to be able to communicate with them directly.

>>77851006
Try Periscope. You can search by country and when you find someone you like can subscribe. I'm learning Spanish also and try to find qts that speak softly so I don't get a headache. Kek

>>77825414
Don't ever assume something's gender, shitbag.

>>77851032
Not for a job, but I intend on studying in Germany for a year on Erasmus. I'll have to get to B1/B2 within like 12 months, so I've plenty of time.

>>77857609
Germany? I know there's an Erasmus university in Rotterdam over here, but where's the German one?

>>77859672
erasmus is a program lmao

>>77848334
>>77848646
Digested this a bit more. So what I gathered is that the whole immersion thing for a beginner is bullshit, we need to get input we can understand. So the roll of learning tools is to slowly introduce new things so that we can see them out in the real world where they can be understood and internalized. The value of going to France to learn French only comes once you can understand enough French for it to be of merit. Seems pretty logical to me.

However, where he lost me is that speaking doesn't help. That seems essential to me, maybe not at the beginning but soon. Maybe I'm misunderstanding though.

I do understand that he is saying to be a good speaker, you need to listen/read things that you are able to comprehend. But he loses me at "learning" isn't how this is accomplished.

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>check duolingo for Japanese
>find this
I'm not sure how to feel about this

>>77861800
Is it really that fleshed out of a language? I mean I'm sure they hired some linguist to make it but I doubt he even came up with a complete dictionary that makes it useful.

>>77860258
He also says that following this method speech will naturally appear in 10-15 hours of study, I assume this "speech" is the will to start making your own sentences that probably comes with any method for motivated students. As I see it there has to be a process of trial and error when it comes to speaking, but if I look to myself I was forcing it to much and trying to speak became a memory exercise instead.

>>77862483
I keep track of my hours and I'd say at 10-15 hours I was forming extremely basic sentences with the few words I knew. I'm only at ~70 hours now and it's still very basic but I'm finding more strings coming to me naturally.

It really hit home when he talked about how when you have a fluent sentence it just seems to come from deep inside rather than from thinking about it.

Sounds like his main recommendation is to get comfy (low stress) and study (be motivated) until you know enough to get out there and hear the things you studied? Then once you hear them you internalize them and can speak them?

He talked about "the silent months" of learning. He said three months in the video, but up to six in text.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_period

I'm already trying to speak right away, although it does seem pretty futile right now.

>if I look to myself I was forcing it to much and trying to speak became a memory exercise instead.
I do this a lot. With Pimsleur I'll struggle with a sentence and then I'll keep repeating it until it is memory. The hope is that this memory will become something I can morph into other sentences. For example I was struggling with "He is going to be there for two months" (Va a estar allí para dos meses) and I've memorized that but the hope is that speaking I'll be able to say "She is going to be there for a while" or other variations.

Michel Thomas offers much more explanation than Pimsleur, and maybe that's a better approach to self teaching. Really though, it seems like it is going to be hard to actually figure out which tools work best.

>>77862078
he probably invented a lot of words for this

>>77856457
>Also, it might be of interest to you that Russian speakers perceive all or almost all instances of L in French to be soft, and generally think of French as a language where all the L's are soft.
>English L's are all seen to be hard, except obviously before "ee" and such.
that is indeed pretty interesting/useful

>>77856332
>What befuddles me is the second consonant, though. Is that a Mari word?
For the rest of the word I was trying to imitate this pronounciation:
https://forvo.com/word/%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%85%D0%B8%D0%BD/#ru

Though I realize now I really should have just focused making a normal х rather than trying to imitate that clip exactly to the point of butchering the consonant.

>I hear it clearly as phonemically "soft" (I will use this term instead of referencing palatalization)
I think now that I relisten to it I can hear the "softness", the issue for me is obviously going to be to identify it immediately without needing to relisten to it. Luckily forvo has plenty of examples with which to practice.

Anyway, thanks for all of this!

>>77863470
The linguist they hired for GoT? Or the Duolingo guy?

I hate to be a hater about them having high valyrian, it just feels like a bit of a shame since someone could spend that time learning real language. I'm supportive of the guy learning Mari, this one I'm a little skeptical on. I guess for a laugh someone could spend a few weeks tinkering with it as a GoT fan, but I'd hate to see someone try to master it.

>>77863575
I guess at the end of the day it could be like that fictional language from Star Trek (the name of which is completely evading me right now), which supposedly really did end up developing a full dictionary with time and with a large number of speakers.

I'm guessing that people trying to learn High Valyrian might figure that, if enough people do like them, then it could achieve a similar as did that Star Trek language (i.e. a small niche community of concentrated autism).

>>77833840
You typically won't see some of those words in modern English outside of reading a fantasy novel, even then its not likely as most new fantasy books just use modern English. There are a few exceptions for things like academic papers or just highbrow fuckers

>>77863575
The same guy made both the language and the duolingo course, his name is David Petersen. He's pretty much a rockstar in the conlanging community.

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bump

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Has anyone else used word dive? I'm using it for finnish right now and it's not making me want to kms which I find nice. I can kick back with a glass of finnlandia after I do some swedish for the day and burn through some finn flash cards

>>77863331
I'm going to use these principles as a base to work from and evaluate my progression. Words and grammar is not learned to be used but to make comprehension possible, which will then lead to acquisition. It is more beneficial to listen to someone else describe a picture than doing it yourself, though it feels backwards.

>>77865845
>WordDive users achieve fluent language skills with an average of 63 hours of exercising. This means you will learn a new language in just 3 months if you exercise 45 minutes five times a week.
>in just 3 months if you exercise 45 minutes five times a week.
doubt.pdf

Especially when you take into account the
>$9.99 USD / month

>>77865660
This is to fluency? Or B2 or something?

>>77866064
no idea

>>77865936
>I'm going to use these principles as a base to work from and evaluate my progression. Words and grammar is not learned to be used but to make comprehension possible, which will then lead to acquisition.
Please keep me updated on what you find. It seems my system now works with this methodology, although I started with the thinking that I'd learn grammar and vocab > speak, and now I'm thinking I learn grammar and vocab > comprehend someone else speaking > acquire > speak. So there is just an extra step in the chain there.

Seems like the main adjustment I would make is find more easy things to comprehend early on rather than spending a bunch of effort trying to speak with someone when my level is so low.

>>77863689
Klingon

>>77863575
the guy who made the language made the course
nice lad

Finally grasping the very bare basics of my target Language after months of being too busy to actually commit to it. I'm actually proud of my self for something.

>>77866064
complete fluency i think
b2 would cut it to a quarter or a third

>>77867805
what language?

>>77867268
thanks, it was really annoying me that I couldn't remember its name

>>77867871
German. I know it shouldn't be that difficult to grasp for me since English is my native tongue. I've recently ordered children's books to help me, along with German for Dummies and Duolingo.

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>>77867945
nice, make sure to make good use of that feeling of pride to keep going forward

>>77868350
I'm eager to continue. Whats your target language and how are you progressing?

>>77867820
Wew I'm at like 70 hours and don't feel like I'm on target to reach fluency by 600, but, I'm pretty retarded so probably need to factor that in.

>>77868445
Mari

For now it's going well though it's obviously difficult to get much practice, be it via reading or conversation. Luckily for listening it's not so bad.

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>study shows french accent is the most liked

>>77869020
Wow, I actually had to look up where it was from. Don't give up Anon. We're all going to make it.

>>77869023
French accent in spoken English, you mean? or in another language?

>>77869524
In english at least, can't find the full study, it's from babbel

>>77869020
Are you jewish? There are a ton of jews in Canada and a lot of them are from Ukraine and Russia and it's the only reason I could see to learn that language.

>>77868756
it's class hours
with a teacher on hand to explain concepts n shit
self study can either take much lessor much longer depending on how autistic you are
also no anon, you're not retarded
you've managed 70 hours, and a retard would have given up much before that

>the oral comprehension exercices on memrise
can't make this shit up, you have to be retarded to fail

>>77821676
why would anyone want to learn a language that is ganna be replaced by arabic in 20 years?

>>77871409
They have a lot of compelling content.

>>77871184
>it's class hours
>with a teacher on hand to explain concepts n shit
So they don't include studying for exams and so forth in that amount? I mean if I took a class in college/university for 3 hours per week (M,W,F for an hour or whatever), that generally meant I'd be spending maybe 9 hours total per week because there would be all kinds of time doing assignments and studying for exams. I think my college actually used something like a 1:2 hour ratio as a target for professors (1 hour in class meant 2 hours studying).


>self study can either take much lessor much longer depending on how autistic you are
I guess I'll find out. I took some Spanish in high school but didn't do very well. I wasn't interested. Maybe now with motivation it will be much different.

>also no anon, you're not retarded
>you've managed 70 hours, and a retard would have given up much before that
Thank you. I'm going to stick with it.

>>77871409
We need to learn it to bring the rare gender fluidity textbooks they have over to our respective countries, we must spread this knowledge for future generations.

>>77871409
>not invaded by arabs
>language will still die
baka senpai just make babies

>>77869681
I'm kind of curious how other languages view accented speakers. How do Japanese people feel about English accented Japanese or how French people feel about American accented French.

>>77871615
Even more curious is having grown up a simultaneous bilingual, I respect the botched accent english used for french words when speaking with english folk. For example, I still say ''deja vu'' in the botched english way even though I very well know how to properly pronounce it. When in rome, etc etc.

>>77871540
>So they don't include studying for exams and so forth in that amount?
probably no

>>77871615
My gf is French and still has a pretty strong accent when she speaks English. People comment on how they love her accent, which she realizes is intended well but makes her feel kind of bad because she is trying to not have an accent.

I've spent some time in France and find that they mostly hate Americans, so I'd imagine they don't like French with any American accent.

>>77871099
No, and to my knowledge Mari isn't associated with Judaism in any way (except very indirectly, seeing the Khazar language is possibly from the same branch of Turkic as Chuvash, and Chuvash has strongly influenced Mari)

>>77872548
Nah I wasn't implying there was a direct relation, just that jews are avid language learners and coming from the region around where Mari is spoken, I thought there would have been possibility there.

>>77871795
Ha that is pretty neat, though there are a lot of 'french' phrases used in English that they'd never use in French, I believe

>>77873003
Another interesting thing, I hear '' ménage à trois'' a lot more in english than french, the french in Canada tend to use ''trippe à trois'', which oddly enough is an anglicism from the word ''trip''.

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>>77872761
Actually, the Jews were not allowed to settle in Mari El, as it wasn't in the Pale of Settlement.

Generally, no one learns the Mari language. In the first place, Russians never learn the languages of minorities unless it is out of academical interest, so if a place in Russia has a significant Russian population, it means that the Russians speak Russian, and everyone else adapts. In Yoshkar Ola, Mari are only 24% of the population, and in Mari El as a whole, they are still below 50%.

What's more, if you google (in Russian) about the state of the Mari language, you get hits like this:

https://7x7-journal.ru/post/81317
(tl: "Why do we live in Mari El yet are so ashamed of everything Mari?")

So, it wouldn't make sense to learn Mari for a practical purpose, honestly.

>>77873840
Interesting, thanks for the info

>>77873840
>https://7x7-journal.ru/post/81317
I'm just going by google translate so I really don't want to presume too much, but it seems as though one of the comments is possibly claiming that in Tatarstan, there are some ethnic Russians who try to learn a bit of Tatar, which seems a bit surprising (like you said, "Russians never learn the languages of minorities unless it is out of academical interest"). How plausible do you think that is?

Anyway, the whole "state of Mari culture/language" seems to be an interesting question. The other day I was looking at VK groups/pages on Mari, Mari El, etc., and it seemed to be relatively mixed. Definitely quite a few urban Maris who don't particularly care for it and are content simply speaking Russian and being Russian, and some who don't even speak their language anymore, but at the same time there's always some individuals claiming the exact opposite. What further seems to complicate the issue is the discrepancy between the urban and rural situations (and I'm guessing that, when looking at such discussions online, the urban population is strongly overrepresented).

Luckily, there still seems to be enough Mari-speaking netizens to actually form semi-active communities on VK pages, so clearly it's not by any means dead. It's just a shame that even the healthiest Finno-Ugric language in Russia faces such challenges (compared to Tatar and Chuvash, most notably).

>>77823095
She is not known, but Dota Kehr is great
Search "dota Kehr - Grenzen"

Reading through a parallel text of a book by Kafka to see what words I can pick up in the wild.
I ran across the word 'Reisender'. ('Samsa war Reisender') My dictionary seems to be telling me that it mainly means traveller or tourist, but the translation is showing me travelling salesman. Is this an example of the translation making things less ambiguous?

>>77876368
Where do you find parallel texts of books? Also, my german is very limited, but it might be that it's a shorthand that's generally known in German (or at least was in the time of writing). On wiktionary, if you look up "Reisender", it gives the derived term "Handelsreisender", which is "travelling salesman" proper, I imagine.

>>77876919
Grabbed this one on Amazon, but I see ones in my local bookstore from time to time. If you're looking for PDFs or ebooks, I'd advise b-ok.org or libgen.pw
I probably should've gotten something simpler for my level, but Kafka is one of my favourite authors, so I thought I might as well dip my toe into the deep end and see how far I can get.

>>77869023
>implying the sweet, melodic Indian accent isn't the top one

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>>77877139
>yes hello is tech subbort how can i of helb

>>77821724
>Cyprien
>Norman
who made this

>>77877077
I'll check those out, though I'm afraid there won't be that many in my target language (farsi). Checking can't od any harm though.

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>>77877934
>Cyprien
a romanian : ^)
seriously what's wrong with them?
cyprien has subs on vids and seems pretty normie from what i've seen
including english titles

i'm learning french, would you say they're bad/ have an accent or something?

>>77874720
>I'm just going by google translate so I really don't want to presume too much, but it seems as though one of the comments is possibly claiming that in Tatarstan, there are some ethnic Russians who try to learn a bit of Tatar, which seems a bit surprising (like you said, "Russians never learn the languages of minorities unless it is out of academical interest"). How plausible do you think that is?
Sorry. Tatarstan is a big exception. Neighboring ethnic republics want to be like Tatarstan, as seen in the comments. Well, I haven't been to Tatarstan since 2002, but even back then it felt like entering a foreign country, even though it's not that different. It just has that aura, like this is Tatar land.

Still, I can't imagine many Russians learning the Tatar language even now... maybe some passing knowledge. Urban Tatars are still all bilingual in Russian. I would say Tatars have a special place in the Russian consciousness; they are more than just another minority, so they command more respect in that way. Tatars feel it too, hence why they are so proud.

>>77874720
>>77878307
I should add that Google translate makes that phrase sound forceful.

>Taм и pyccкиe тaтapcкий язык cтapaютcя выyчить, чтoб бoльшe cлитьcя c мecтным нaceлeниeм.

It's more like... "EVEN the Russians are making efforts to learn Tatar to better blend in with the natives", so the event is mentioned as exceptional.

Regarding the conflicting evidence on Mari, I think it is because of how fragmented Mari speakers currently are because of rapid language loss in the past years: it's possible to live in a bubble of Mari speakers, or ignore Mari altogether and live in the "Russian bubble", or actually fail to find any Mari speakers at hand, since all around you the language has died. At least, I assume it's that way. I don't have much experience with Mari El, but I am originally from Udmurtia, which may be somewhat similar, though the situation is much worse. Udmurts are apathetic about their own language and culture. They only speak it in ethnic villages because, I suppose, it is more convenient if the whole village already knows Udmurt. Such are the Finno-Ugric people of Russia.

>>77879291
>>77878307
Oh I think I remember you, you're the Udmurt who posted in the Altaic threads quite a while ago, no?

>though the situation is much worse
I guess that figures, if nothing else simply for demographic reasons. Allegedly (according to Ethnologue) Mari is still taught in primary schools (though it doesn't specify to what extent). Does the same exist with Udmurt? There's no mention of it on the Ethnologue page for Udmurt.

>Such are the Finno-Ugric people of Russia.
Not just Russia, even the Saami face the same problems. Finno-Ugrics (or rather, pretty much all Uralic peoples) are rather unlucky in this regard.

>I would say Tatars have a special place in the Russian consciousness; they are more than just another minority
I guess that isn't too surprising, for example Tatar allegedly used to be the lingua franca even for Finno-Ugric peoples in the Volga region prior to Russian becoming the dominant language and culture (if you're interested I can try to dig up the source where I read that). Also, they're way more numerous than pretty much every other minority, which probably makes a substantial difference.

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Are there more tips for learning French besides the one in the picture posted above? Grammar books?

>>77880011
http://4chanint.wikia.com/wiki/French

>>77879871
Oh, did you post there too? Fun threads, but they were not meant to last.

>Does the same exist with Udmurt? There's no mention of it on the Ethnologue page for Udmurt.
I remember a neighbor's Tatar kid in 2003 telling me he had to learn Udmurt in primary school. Sorry, that's about all I know.

>Not just Russia, even the Saami face the same problems. Finno-Ugrics (or rather, pretty much all Uralic peoples) are rather unlucky in this regard.
A lot currently feel that that being Finno-Ugric equals being backward, so in order to come out of the backwardness, the way to go is to shed the Finno-Ugric identity. I am hopeful for a change in attitude.

>I guess that isn't too surprising, for example Tatar allegedly used to be the lingua franca even for Finno-Ugric peoples in the Volga region prior to Russian becoming the dominant language and culture (if you're interested I can try to dig up the source where I read that). Also, they're way more numerous than pretty much every other minority, which probably makes a substantial difference.
We were taught that in school! Tatars were very influential, and they still want to be.

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>>77880085
Oh thanks for this! It's a great page but it seems it might not have been updated in a while. Anyways, lots of good information on there. Thank you

>>77880321
>but it seems it might not have been updated in a while.
Now that you mention it, that's probably something which /lang/ ought to do: update the Wiki and hopefully make it more relevant than it currently is.

>>77880211
Fun threads indeed.

/fug/ threads, when they appear, are not exactly the same (they don't have that "scholarly" feel which the old Altaic threads had), but it's still not too bad a substitute.

>>77880430
Yeah, I saw there's a page for Dari Persian, but it's pretty much limited to "it's the language of afghanistan, and it came from middle persian which came from old persian."

Persian is confusing me. One source talked about diacritics representing some vowels but I haven't seen them anywhere. Does Persian commonly use diacritics?

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Interesting advice in this german grammar book.

I was quite surprised by the choice of words, but it appears the book was written in 1950. I had no idea. I guess this was an appropriate thing to say back then.

>>77880948
From what I can recall, they're generally reserved for dictionaries, the Quran and books that are meant to be easier.

A quick google led me to wikibooks which says
>In children's books and some other learning resources, short vowel are marked using the following symbols:

>>77881012
That wording is particularly relevant in 2017.

>>77881012
The fact that they write "rôle" (like in French, rather than simply "role") is also fairly surprising.

I presume this is a British book?

>>77881260
Why, yes. Care to explain the connection? Never seen (or paid attention to) that before.

>>77881433
>Care to explain the connection?
Brits are much more keen than Americans on keeping French elements in their language, including spelling ("colour" instead of "color", for example) and diacritics ("sautéed" instead of "sauteed", for example). Or you could just argue that Brits are simply better at writing their language and therefore are more conservative with that sort of thing, but either way the end result is the same.

>>77881623
I see, that makes sense. I don't think I've seen even the british use diacritics.

btw. new word for me, we only have the ", umlaut, in finnish and german.