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ask an italian communist on the verge of...
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ask an italian communist on the verge of suicide anything.
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how will you kill yourself?
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>>55049633
>Italian communist
so you are 15 y old teen
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>>55049658

by eating and drinking until I die. We still have some rubles Moscow used to give us for propaganda purposes.
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why dont you just become ananarchist?
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>>55049681

I am more than twice of that age. I have a fading memory of the First Republic.
I've never voted for Rifondazione though.
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>>55049711

because i think we need a strong revolutionary dictatorship to keep capitalists in check and to hang anarchists until we reach communism.
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>>55049730
You are not a communist tho, using a pc made by le capitalist monstah.
Just kill yourself already
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>>55049633
will you livestream as you commit sudoku?
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>lazy Mediterranean genes
>commie

checks out
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>>55049701
>by eating and drinking until I die. We still have some rubles Moscow used to give us for political education purposes.
Fixed that for you, comrade.

But seriously why do you want to kill yourself?
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>>55049798
What are communists supposed to do, hide in caves untill it rises?
>>55049820
When will this meme die, people in communist countries worked far harder, they had too
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Will you take some bourgeois bastards with you?
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>>55049798

communism will spring from capitalism.
If you read the communist manifesto you'll see the awe and admiration for certain aspects capitalism.
Communism absolutely needs capitalism at its peak of productivity. Communism is capitalism with robots to serve mankind.
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>>55049809

No. Give me a big booty tunisian gf.

>>55049828

yeah. "Education". You are right, comrade.

>>55049820

dude I'm working like 10-11 hours from monday to friday. Italians on average work more hours than Germans.

>>55049866

Absolutely not. We need them to work for communism, that's why we need a strong socialist state with secret police.
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>>55049945
So why are you suicidal?
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>>55050013

because i see a mortal contradiction at the heart of our communist ideals.
That's why we've lost and America has won.
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>>55050068
And what contradiction is that?
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>>55049777
but then you are not a communist, you are a socialist
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>>55050172

Wanting the poverty of communism and also wanting to btfo countries like the US, probably.
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>>55050210
He probably means communist as in Marxist-Leninist.
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>>55050172

I won't bust my ass for the others, I just want stuff for myself.
If I am smarter/stronger (personally I am not) I find it more appealing to exploit the weaker for my personal needs and gains. There is no god so there is no hell, nobody's gonna punish me in my life nor I have to fear some superior entity.
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>>55050262
>there is no hell
>nobody's gonna punish me in my life
>Want's to commit suicide.
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>>55049879
>Communist manifesto
>>55049820
We work more than you tho
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>>55049633

>communist on the verge of suicide

Noice.
I mean you guys already don't reproduce at all so I wouldn't even be worried about leftism if it wasn't for the fact that you're everywhere in the education system.
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>>55050210

communism won't come from Heaven you need to subjugate other classes, élites and avant-gardes with their own purposes beliefs and strenght. There is no way workers/peasants can do it alone without a strong party leadership and a state with repressive organs to keep engineers, doctors, philosophers, judges, tycoons, shopkeepers, lumpenproletariat in check with violence.
After years of committed work to eradicate the "bourgeoise elements" and kulturkampf you'll eventually reach a classless stateless society. How? I don't know. But you won't reach it without long years of repression and re education.
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Every communist in italy is just a stupid retard.
Like you OP
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>>55050341

the good old communist party was dragged in by the radical party in the so called "fight for divorce".
The promoters were Socialists and Radicals.
And communists used to be quite homophobic too. No radical chics in factories.
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Were you around for red brigade or is that before your time? Either way thoughts?
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>>55050262
Thats awfully selfish for a communist but you could just stop being one for the sake of your life.
I used to be a communist, but I dropped it once I stopped being so angry with the world. I don't think myself stupid, I just don't have that drive anymore.
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>>55050424

that was way before my time. My thoughts on the Red Brigades is the same of your average italian communist party follower: people who greatly contributed to the demise of the Compromesso Storico with the christian democracy.
They have been easily destroyed once they dared to kill a communist worker.
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>>55050449

an angry communist is a dead communist.
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Livorno?
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>>55050503

Roma
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>>55050212
>be poor under commies rule
>blame commies

>be poor under capitalism
>blame yourself, you should work harder even if 99% of your product will be taken away by capitalists

what's how your logic works?
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>>55050537
I used to be a commie
When I was 14 lel
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>>55050477
Cool. Go to many protests? I have commie friends from Vicenza who has sent me video footage of some clashes with police, seems to get pretty rough
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>>55050401
>And communists used to be quite homophobic too
Not all

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_and_homosexuality

http://www.kaleidoscot.com/harry-whyte-the-gay-scot-who-challenged-stalin-3405
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>>55050559

I am sure you were politically aware at 14. Like my fascist friends writing everywhere "Dux mea lux".
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>>55050583

I am talking about italian communists back in the time. And soviet communists as much as i know...
Blaming the Italian Communist Party for leftie things like divorce, abort and mass immigration is just wrong. At least in Italy.
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>>55050586
I went to a 3rd world country, saw theres literally no reason to complain. I realized that in any european country, if you work your ass off since highschool you can live a decent life.
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>>55050561

Never. I can't stand the smell of zecche.
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>>55050542
>your
>product

Just because you had your hand in doing it doesn't mean it's yours
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>>55050559
most commies in germany are old people from the east
young people want capitalism (free markets, money, iphones and shit)
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>>55050652
>t. capitalist
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>>55049633
why haven't you killed yourself yet you commie?
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>>55050663
Here its all the contrary. Old people are reminiscent of franco and young people want free stuff given to them
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>>55050364
but communism will "come from heaven" when the material conditions become the correct ones

you cannot create communism in societies that have not become fully industrialized
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>>55049879
>Communism is capitalism with robots to serve mankind.

Well this is kinda interesting. I'm not a commie, although I was always concerned about the future of labour in case capitalism would prevail. Would all the masses be left to starve after the complete mechanisation? It doesn't look good.
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>>55050644

good for you. I am not going to argue with you why you can do it in any european country, you can read it in any history book.
My question is: what's the relation between communism and people living decent lives in any european country and what's your definition of decent and why you think your definition of decent is universal and we all de facto agree with you.
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>>55050712
If you keep waiting for the right moment for revolution it will never come. We must keep making attempts until we succeed. Keep up the good fight
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>>55050583
here in germany homosexuality was legalized under communist rule, but it was seen as a degenerate western lifestyle and the commies tried to ban it from public. they thought homosexuality would not exist in the communist (=perfect) socitey, everyone should be the same
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Human is egocentric by nature, thats why anarchy and communism will never work
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>>55049633
>on the verge of suicide
Do it faggot
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>>55050727
the singularity will by the revolution
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>>55049633
Once i have seen only one italian communist on a parade on TV. I hope that young guy dressed like pioneer was you.
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>>55050746
Decent: having all you need and more, still having your own rights and being able to spend your money freely
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>>55050787
The way the singularity goes will be determined by the material conditions at the time. Do you really think the have-nots will be allowed the fruits of the singularity out of the kindness of the bourgeoisies heart?
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>>55050799
communists are laughing stock here, except in commie romagna, because they are all commies there.
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>>55050755
if one keeps voting social democrats and labour parties you are just increasing the lifespawn of a cancer patient, full accelerationism is the only answer

we need to create a capitalist globalized society so that when we can replace all work with machines we achieve communism and then move to transhumanism

>>55050760
>he doesnt know about egoist anarchism
wew lad
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>>55050620
Well yeah, Soviet Communists were homophobic once Stalin came to power. It was like that in most of the Eastern Bloc... except for the DDR.

>>55050759
Gays were literally treated better in the East than the West.

>>55050727
Read this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_utopianism
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>>55050839
Italy is like the most capitalist country ever. That's why the south is so shitty. You should learn more from the Germans.
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>>55050652

And also you use the resources of other person.
You just need good laws to prevent to be overexplored.
THE poverty in third world countries is due to other things, like wars and slavery, and not capitalism
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>>55050875
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_utopianism

I am quite familiar with the topic. I'm sort of a sci-fi freak. Although I tend to be much more pessimistic about the future.
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>>55050712

I do agree like your average libertarian anon to this fairy tale and that's why I am about to kill myself. Just waiting for the material condition to become the correct ones is the suicide of communism. The smartest communists of XX century at least tried to build a ladder to Heaven because if you don't move your ass, since there is no god nor hell nor heaven there are also no material conditions to become the correct ones, like Chile's army, Argentina's death flights, the destruction of Tudeh in Iran and the USA financed freedom fighters in pro Soviet democratic socialist republic of Afghanistan have demonstrated.
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>>55049633
>communist
>on the verge of suicide
good
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>>55050874
I do not believe that the contradictions in capitalism will cause it's end. Only revolution will end it. To continue your metaphor capitalism should be euthanised. Technological disruption can be fully subsumed into capitalist reproduction
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>>55050877
i'd rather drown in a sea of chinese shit than learn from barbarians
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>>55050827
yes

they will try to sell it to you, thats capitalism
just look at cars, indutrial equipment or computers, back in the day only the bourgs had them, now you can buy a reliable econobox or build a computer for pennies
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>>55050874
In an anarchy you have to collaborate with others to get certain goods
t. I have an anarchist friend
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>>55050727

We all know that the real scenario would be someone using robots to subjugate the rest of mankind, not sharing them.
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>>55050984
That doesn't defeat my argument. Give me a proper explanation as to how accelerating capitalism will CAUSE it's end
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>>55050986

what the anarchists fail to see is that hierarchical power has already destroyed their idea of shared communistic cooperative power. That's how the vast majority of societies work in the world.
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we were so close

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrn1d1ppgWg
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>>55050983
I remember when everyone laughed at me at Naples for still going to scholl. I was 18 back then.
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>>55050940
There's an Israeli poster that subscribes to Technological Utopianism. I think that it's possibility and would be nice, but it's too far ahead so you're basically sitting around with your thumb up your arse until then.
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>>55050954
if you want to implement fully automated luxury communism you need capitalism to pave the way for it, thats Marx

>since there is no god nor hell nor heaven there are also no material conditions to become the correct ones
yes there are, we need machines that replace labour, thats literally all it is, there is no soviets or socialist state

thats why you need to create the basis for sustainable automated industry and then just let capitalism die just like mercantilism and colonialism did
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>>55051089
man, in all honesty, naples should just fucking burn to the ground.
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>>55051055
Anarchists are pretty delusional, but I can't blame them for wanting that type of society. Btw almost half of them don't really know what anarchy is and just want to destroy and burn things in manifas
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>>55051093

of course you need "capitalism to pave the way" and i think i've made it already clear since the start of the thread.
However capitalism won't just fade away and just waiting for its demise is plain wrong. Of course nobody still explained to me why after capitalism communism will just spring out instead of something horrible using technology to subjugate humanity for its own purposes. And as I have already explained I would do it too if I were smart/strong enough.
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>>55051107
Yeah, probably. Milano is very decent, though.
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>>55051207
maybe, i've never been there.
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With you being a communist, it's better to off yourself. I have a question though - what's stopping you? Why not just do it now?
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>>55050969
what is your definition of the revolution?
a revolution to change the ruler is not a paradigm shift, it doesnt change the modes of production

this is what happened in the USSR, it was state capitalism, where the burocrats where the rulers over the soviet people, just like the monarch was the ruler of the peasants

they couldn't eliminate explotation, just change the leadership, every "revolution" so far has been the same, the american and mexican war of independance and their civil wars, the french revolution ended with napoleon as the ruler aswell, the same happened in spain, the same happened in yugoslavia and china and so on

you need to change the system from within by eliminating work you are eliminating the explotation and alienation, thats the revolution

>>55051028
you must need to understand that capitalism does not equal markets
think about this, until we manage to create a machine that will be able to do every type of labour including fixing and upgrading itself we will have to work, capitalism has proved to be a more effective tool for this than XX century socialism
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i heard EU is communist/socialist utopia, it isnt?
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>>55051358
>markets* have proved to be a more effective tool for this than XX century socialism

my bad
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>>55049633
Multicultural, progressive fucking KUCK
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Don't do this, comrad. Next Revolution will start somewhere in Europe.
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>>55051388
who told you that? it's a beaurocratic hell.
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>>55051296

I have a dream.
I'm just living to see another brutal communist dictatorship to make abortion illegal in Romania. I want to see huge romanian state controlled orphanages full of unwanted romanian children and an iron curtain keeping them away from the wealthy capitalist West.
And what's more I want to see rich spoiled italian brats fighting to import your shitty system in Italy until they turn 25 and start working at their father's company, driving their BMWs.
I want to see the eyes of those little romanian orphans on television and feel indignant at the lack of equality in the world, from my 150 square meters house with garden.
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time to become an accelerationist
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>>55051437
so was ussr

and so is north korea
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>>55051358
Replacing labour with machines will not benefit labour provided we are still talking within capitalism. You seem to assume that somewhere along the line capital just relinquish ownership and control of these machines for no reason. If you want machines to benefit workers, the workers must own and control the machines
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>>55049633
daniele you should be helping mum set up the table, it's sunday.
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>>55051388
It's not what commies want, it's not what normal people want, it's not what capitalists want. It's commie-like in the way that it dictates what should be done, it tries to plan and centralize shit. It's the bureaucratic purgatory that's typical of communist countries but without any of the (minimal) advantages. Developed countries suffer and shitholes profit off of it, yet most of the time those profits are not reinvested but stolen by retarded niggers like in Romania. The attempts to civilize the East fail 9/10 times.

>>55051466
Thank God that will never happen again unless it's pushed onto us, same like the first time. Commie melancholics are slowly dying off, and with each gravestone we move forward. The old and stupid are pruned despite the best efforts of those who would maintain the system. It's the only thing that gives me hope for this country, but to be honest I'm not going to trust it, I'm still going to move the fuck away and watch from a safe distance.
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>>55051585
Where are you going to go?
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>>55051495
And this is where Eвpocoюз is going. Also add extreme faggotry and islam
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>>55051158
>However capitalism won't just fade away
yes it will, it will fade away like tribalism, totalitarian monarchism, merkantilism, colonialism and other past modes of production did

>instead of something horrible using technology to subjugate humanity for its own purposes.
it wont, I dont want to sound like a maoist but where capitalism is explotin the workers at its maximum, the 3rd world living conditions are becoming better

there will be a point where you will simply run out of people to exploit because countries will be developed to a certain level where explotation like today will be impossible, the market itself will need itself in order to exist.

capitalists need to sell their products so they need customers, and they simply can't keep selling the same shit because countries are becoming more developed, they would want to, but customers want the newest or biggest TV or whatever

they will simply be too developed in order stay subjugated, not in the physical subjugation, but on the idea that they will simply not allow the capitalists to treat them as second class customers, otherwise their profits will shrink and someone will replace them

you can see this happened in the middle east with the introduction of mobile phones and internet, or in Latam where people dont want shitty cars, clothes or motorcycles

its just like colonial powers who run out of land to exploit capitalism will run out of people to exploit

this is why this whole anarcho capitalism/right-libetarianism could work in order to build communism
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>>55051699
Gonna finish my studies, earn as much dosh as I can and start my own business, ideally. Right now I'm thinking Australia/NZ but this may possibly change. Maybe one of the Asian Tigers if they keep it up. We'll have to see, frater, the future is unpredictable and the multitude of variables involve makes it literally impossible for the human mind to comprehend beyond the most basic details.

At one time I was thinking Italy, since I got a job offer from a company there. We're very similar to them, but every bad part is several orders of magnitude worse. Plus the language is easy for me to learn, too.
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>>55051358
There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Are now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss
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>>55051787
You are naive
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>>55051787
I bet if there was a referendum no country would get over 5% of wanting anarcho-communism with some exceptions
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>>55051855
You have an impressive level of english, I must say, you're always welcome here bro. Good luck in any case, don't lose your roots either
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>>55051585
>Thank God that will never happen again unless it's pushed onto us, same like the first time

Next time don't declare war on Russia and try to harvest pieces of Bessarabia. That's what got T-34 tanks parading through Bucharest. :^)
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>>55050839
>communists are laughing stock here

As far as I can tell, nobody's taken them seriously in Europe since 1989.
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>>55051553
>If you want machines to benefit workers, the workers must own and control the machines
but you will own the machine that is capable of replacing all labour at the moment the capitalist sell it to you

I am not talking about a simple barista robot or anything as simple as that, but when the capitalist creates a machine, capable of working with other machines in order to serve us in every aspect,

you might be thinking that I am talking about something like robotina from the jetsons, no, something even bigger, even smarter than us that understands what exactly do we need and knows exactly how to do

>>55051474
only viable option at this point imo тbh faм

XX century socialism proved itself to be a failure
>>
>>55049633
>>55049658
>>55049711
ALL THESE FLAGS LOOK IDENTICAL
>>
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>>55051787
That is not how capitalism works, Pedro. You make it sound like the process you just described is a sort of mortal error of it, it's weak point, but really, it's just the natural process that results from it. People become empowered and everything improves slowly. Look at Europe - things just get automated and the lower classes move to the middle, and even the lowest will live in conditions much better than the middle class of most shit countries. There was this study that in the US, most poor families own a TV and a microwave, and half of them had a car. My family and I didn't have a car for most of my life despite us being middle-class.

What you just described is childish, really. You imagine capitalism is out to get you, as if it's pure evil.

>>55051925
Thanks familia. I don't hate this country, but I do not trust it to keep itself together. Our history is one of overcoming danger, of fighting till the very last moment, but now after the revolution it seems people have become complacent and some beg for the chains that once restrained them. It's sad, really.

>>55051990
>Next time don't fight for your rights
>Next time don't fight for your people
>Next time accept subjugation
>Next time bow your head down like a dog
>Next time lick the boot that kicks you

How laughable, to hear this coming from a burger. No wonder your country is going down the shitter.
>>
>>55051882
but how?

I feel it is a lot more naive to belive giving all power to the soviets is the better idea, when Leninism, Maoism, Chavism etc etc proved themselves to be a failure

>>55051886
of course, the bourg want to protect their interest and will create propaganda for the citizens

you simply can't stablish anarchy that way, it happened in Spain and anarchist got rekt
>>
>>55052165
A couple of decades ago m8. Also I'd rather be bourg than live in a commune
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>>55052165
I do not want a repeat of 20th century communism, god no. But I also do not think that we will ever have the ability to buy power away from the bourgeoisie. The bourgeoisie are not stupid, they will not give their power away even if in the short term it would be profitable to do so. No matter how high the tech goes it doesn't matter, it will still be a tool weirded by them against us
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>>55052131
wat, That's exactly how capitalism work, precisely because capitalism is not pure evil is why its a better tool to achieve communism than socialism, what makes capitalism work is the free market, not work alienation, explotation, or class struggle
the problem is you are thinking markets are inherent to capitalism only

What you just described is exactly how capitalism, not markets,is failing itself, people in other areas of the world have an easier acces to certain commodities. but this is not really a problem as time goes by because most of these countries are becoming developed

There will be a point in history where a certain type of commodity will make capitalism obsolete, you wont need to buy clothes because a machine will do them for you, same with food, computer parts or whatever and only certain people will be able to afford it, but again, just like cars or computers they eventually became accesible for all

thats why its retarded to replace capitalism with soviet burocracy
>>
Communism destroys innovation (when at peace) by creating no competition.

Dictatorships are even worse as most of them suppress free thinking with propaganda and hides the truth.

In the end, whoever has the best technology wins. Communism is bound to fail no matter what.
>>
>>55052782
Amerilard is right here
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>>55049633
>comunista
>vuole uccidersi
Coincidenza?
>>
>>55052729
I see, it seems I misunderstood. Well, that seems about right. It's unlikely for that to happen within our lifetimes, but maybe someday it could become real. Even so, I don't think the system that would emerge would be socialism, but something along the lines of what Marx described regarding free time (dicking around without specializing in one thing, such as anyone being able to hunt, anyone being able to try their hand at welding, sports and whatnot - which it true even today to a certain extent) with some form of basic sustenance provided by the government or some other authority.

What I always imagined was voluntary associations rather than states doing it, though.
>>
>>55052782
I understand where you come from as I've read the theory where that position comes from. And I'd agree that it was true in the soviet style economies, they were good at playing catch up but never good at taking the lead. I disagree that competition is the mechanism of this though. And even there there is the Lange model of socialism that would rid off that excuse anyway
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>>55052947
Also to clarify, I myself am not a proponent of the Lange model
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>>55052522
> buy power away from the bourgeoisie. The bourgeoisie are not stupid
yeah and what the bourg do is to defend itself is create monopolies, cartels, copyright laws and other retarded bullshit to make the free market stagnate and keep it from progressing

this is why you have planned obsolescence and retarded product marketing, they want you to stay away from technology that will destroy capitalism from inside

we have to develop said technology if we want to reach the revolution

> them against us
we will eventually become all bourg, you need to remeber that the definition of bourg is that they profit from the explotation of others, in this case machines

the class difference will simply stop existing, and so will the struggle between them

its pretty idealistic, but the future must be otherwise there will be no future at all

>>55052247
and you will, because mandating that we should all live in a commune because >muh feels is retarded

we will live in communes when the material conditions lead us to do such thing
>>
>>55052782
>Communism destroys innovation (when at peace) by creating no competition.

WEW
E
W

how is placing several AI machines to compete againts eachother to find out the best way to create crops, make energy, clothes, ect eliminating competition?

>>55052882
>What I always imagined was voluntary associations rather than states doing it, though.

yeah, probably what modern leftists misinterpret
>>
>>55053092
Essentially your saying that technology will enable everyone to be bourgeois. I disagree, I think that Marx's category of surplus population is useful here. Instead of becoming bourgeois, the amount of surplus population will increase. These people will remain the have nots, just without jobs/income now. The fact that they're not being exploited in the production process doesn't mean they're not being excluded from the fruits of society.
There is no technology that can destroy capitalism from the inside
>>
>>55053232
>implying you can even make the AI in the first place
assigning people jobs in fields they don't even like will for equal pay as everyone else only get you halfhearted results and no extra dedication.
>>
>>55053092
t. special snowflake
>>
>>55053278
I feel you m8 but you can already see that:
-the surplus population and lumpenproles are, perhaps not disappearing, but changing, neetbux basic income and welfare are creating a new class, which is in a way profiting from the work of automation in factories

I understand that the ruling class could just make these benefits disappear, but not without massive protes

- the birth date in developed countries is decreasing

think about the following, currently the US relies on cheap labour from mexican immigrants to create their surplus population, but what is going to happen when Mexico becomes industrialized and its not profitable to cross the border? Are we going to get them from central america? central america is pretty small and again, what is going to happen when central america becomes developed?

its the same problem colonialism faced once every land had an owner

you could arguee that the bourg will try to keep the source of surplus population underdeveloped, but I feel it certainly has become harder to do so

>There is no technology that can destroy capitalism from the inside
idk senpai, I certainly hope not

perhaps we will have to develop communal farms and program the robots in the case of a massive glitch or something, but such technology is so utopian is hard to think what could go wrong

imma go to sleep because its pretty lat, fun talking to you
>>
>>55053785
Night.
If this thread is still up this is my reply.
Mexicans are already leaving the US in unprecedented numbers, and certain areas of the US are feeling it quite hard.
If you think that a political movement of those on neetbux could achieve that, go ahead I give you the green light. Enjoy acchieving that though.
>>
>>55053891
nah m8
more mexicans came back from the US than the ones entering the US, at least legally

this happened in 2015-2014, google it because I can't be assed to do it now lol

night
>>
>>55049633
Avete rovinato il paese traditori bastardi
>>
>>55049809
>sudoku
it's seppuku
>>
Friendly reminder that abolition of property and anarchy are utterly incompatible.

Enjoy your unworkable fantasy land.
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