>Esperanto does what it claims to do (allowing communication between people from different nations and being easier to learn than national languages) >literally the only known case in the history of humanity of a language that started as a constructed language and now has native speakers >growing despite no publicity and widespread ignorance and unfavorable opinions about it >it has survived all the people who claimed it's dead That's hardly a failure desu.
>>53774833 The rise of fascism is many countries sought to use divide and conquer techniques and thus a international language posed an enormous threat. The Fact that Zamenhof was a Jewish Pole didn't help much easier, allowing the Fascists to label it as a Jewish conspiracy. On top of this the largest country on Earth, the Soviet Union, went on to ban the language for the same reason the Fascists did (minus the Jew part of course) and thus the language died off.
>>53779671 Yes it is, it has enough grammar and vocabulary to state literally every conceivable idea that you could in English And seeing as the purpose of a language is to communicate, wouldn't that make the easiest language to learn more of a language than English?
>>53779942 >why on Earth would someone want an international language to have culture because then you can still enjoy its culture you fucking retard
Even if someone in rural Mongolia learns English, he then has access to COUNTLESS cultural productions (movies, TV shows, journals, newspapers, music, radio, etc.), not to mention all of the great literary heritage of the English language (Shakespeare, Poe, Wilde, etc.)
So learning English not only allows you to communicate with the world, it also gives you access to one of the richest cultures on Earth.
>implying the purpose of a language is to speak in nonsensical gibberish No, but language is about more than just communication, despite all of your jewish propaganda trying to claim that culture is irrelevant and we should just ditch it for your fucking newspeak.
>>53780151 >no slang, literature, or poetry wew lad >why learn it? Easy, even if you were learning a language for the culture, learning Esperanto makes it all the much easier to learn another language, especially if that language is a European one
>>53780299 >learning Esperanto makes it all the much easier to learn another language, especially if that language is a European one or you could just directly learn whatever European language you're interested in, Shlomo
The "intermediate learning language" argument has no factual basis, unless you're specifically interested in learning the "intermediate" language in the first place.
>wew lad Again, compared to English, it's fucking nothing.
Bislama also has *some* literature, slang, etc. but that doesn't mean that its culture can even come slightly close to that of English.
>>53779930 >jewish esperantists >>53780090 >jewish propaganda >>53780447 >Shlomo Literally 99% of Esperanto speakers are not Jews and none of them gives a fuck about Jews.
>>53780151 >Esperanto is boring, clinical, and with no slang or literature or poetry or anything It's absolutely incredible how anyone can say that shit on the fucking Internet when a 10 second Google search will tell you that, yes, there is Esperanto literature and poetry.
>>53780195 Klingon is not a real language, unlike Esperanto. Also, please tell me how Esperanto is "limited".
>>53780357 Esperanto is a real language, whether you like it or not.
>>53781760 >Bislama is still a shit language What an incredibly hateful statement.
>Esperanto is a shitty jewish """"""""""language"""""""""" 1. Why are you obsessed with Jews? 2. No needs for scare quotes, Esperanto is a language. Period. There is no debate. It's not a matter of opinion. If you disagree, you are objectively and provably wrong. Denying reality because you don't like it won't make it disappear.
>>53781893 artificial languages are not real languages
>What an incredibly hateful statement. it's the truth
Esperanto, just like Bislama (I'm just using Bislama as a random example but there are countles other examples) are shit languages with shit culture compared to English (or French, or Spanish, or German, etc.)
Language is used as a way to communicate with those around you; your people, your culture. Esperanto is for talking to people outside of your culture, you can meet in the middle and learn an easy language. Esperanto SHOULD NOT have any native speakers, it should not displace any language existing. I don't give a fuck about grammar in english, because I can understand someone when they say "I don't want nothin" instead of "I don't want anything". Language and culture evolves like that. But in esperanto, grammar should be kept strict and orderly, because esperanto must not displace cultures, it must not become anyone's language they speak at home.
>>53782031 >that denial Why can't you just accept reality? Esperanto is a real language, whether you like it or not. There is literally nobody in the world who has observe how Esperanto is used in real life and concluded it's not a real language.
>>53779876 People who want a simple way to talk to foreigners, dumbass.
I agree, esperanto is a soulless and uninspired language. But that's fine, because it's not supposed to have a culture attached to it. It is a utility.
And you know what, a lot of people are complaining about globalization, but you ignore that there are countries whose people are collectively forgetting their own language in favor of english. This is quite sad. Capitalism is the problem, and ironically, esperanto as the auxiliary language of the earth would work to preserve culture.
>>53774833 It hasn't really "failed", since people still do learn and speak it, but I suppose you don't really gain much by learning Esperanto, as opposed to learning English (or French, or Spanish, etc.).
What I don't get is how angry/defensive people get about saying Esperanto is a failure, that it's fake, etc. It seems to genuinely make people mad that people are using it and feel that it's equal to any other language. I blame people with bad people skills trying to promote Esperanto, laying the seeds for that irritation.
But yeah...After knowing this language for 10 years it's really impossible for me to take any argument like >muh great works of art >muh 1000s of years of history as a very important point for why another language should be considered "more" of a language than this one.
Like who the fuck learns a modern man made language? Like what do they even have going for them? You don't get fun shit from their etymology or anything because none of it was shaped by conquering or anything like that it was all made in universities
It just borrows shit from a bunch of romance languages It's just so boring Like everything about is pretty fucking stupid
And people make fun of the nerds who learn Latin and ancient greek sheesh
>>53784425 >no soul It's funny how people keep spouting the "no soul" meme, which doesn't even make sense.
When someone tells a joke in Esperanto and people from five countries laugh at the same time, is it soulless? When a girl confesses her love to her boyfriend in Esperanto, is it soulless? When a father talks to his child in Esperanto, is it soulless?
>>53784412 How did it change your life I'm genuinely curious
Nah dead languages are WAY more important desu
You learn so many cool things from dead languages that I don't think you'd ever learn from Esperanto
For example barbarian comes from ancient greek and they used it to describe gauls and other such northern foreigners because they made sounds like barbarbarbar Its literally like calling uncivilized people chingchongians
>>53784182 >Why learn it? >Give a single good reason?
Well, originally I learned it for fun, not expecting anything. What I have ended up being surprised by/happy about is that you don't have to do very much digging to find people from a wide range of countries, and alot of people are excited to invite you to stay with them in their country and guide you around. I'm sure I could find that with English or another language, but with Esperanto it's more automatic. People are excited to invite each other to places and to host people. On the "English" internet, I don't randomly run into very many Asians or Africans, compared to on the "Esperanto" internet, where I talk to Asians and Africans all the time. The English language internet is pretty skewed toward the U.S., and then somewhat to the rest of the western world. The Esperanto internet is more fun and interesting to me because I talk with people from places like Burundi, China, East Timor, Nepal, Vietnam etc. on a regular basis, and it's people who are interested in international stuff and culture sharing, so you learn alot. And really, in light of Esperanto's original goal of helping people feel equal, I feel that is true as well. If you don't mention where you are from, you feel like you're talking to your neighbor, the conversation flows very easily and you're not clouded thinking about where the person is from. Then you find out they are a police officer from China who doesn't know English and that you wouldn't have been friends otherwise. Basically it feels like a big party to me where the whole world is invited. English still feels pretty American and Brit based to me.
>>53784634 It is, because it's artificial. If you're butthurt about this it's not my problem at all m8, but even fucking Tolkien said this and that's why he started making up legends and tales for his languages in the first place.
>>53784760 I don't hate it, Esperanto looks better than most other artificial languages, especially compared to Volapük and Toki Tiki or however that autistic shit is called. But if I have the choice between a real language and the culture and history it transports and a language literally created by someone whose name was semen yard I'll naturally take the real language
>>53785109 >but even fucking Tolkien said this and that's why he started making up legends and tales for his languages in the first place.
>he thinks made up stories about elves are more real than daily interactions between actual living people travelling, becoming friends, cooking together, singing and dancing together, falling in love, and raising families
>>53785330 It was still created by a person and hasn't changed that much. Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against the language per se (or against any constructed language as long as it isn't bullshit like Tiki Toka or whatever it's called). I just don't see any reason to learning it and not wanting to concede that it indeed doesn't serve any real purpose and does not have any ethymological history at all, as it just took words from random languages and put them together with a highly simplified grammar.
>>53785418 You didn't get at all what I'm saying lad, not even counting the fact that Sindarin nowadays also is spoken by a bunch of people.
>>53785330 >Ne malŝparu vian tempon, tiu retejo estas la pugo de la reto.
Nu fakte mi malŝparas la tempon ĉiutage...Hej, ĉu malplaĉus al vi babili ie, iam? Aŭ ĉu vi preferus resti anonima? Mi sentas ke ni ofte preterpasas unu la alian ĉi tie, kial ne fariĝu amikoj? Bv. resbondi :-DD
>>53785825 Around 40 are proven to be more or less fluent, +-150 more have basic knowledge. Main difference is they don't try to stick their knowledge of it into everyone's ass like some Esperantofags here.
>>53774833 Esperanto is simply useless. If you learn it, you won't: -gain access to new papers/studies etc. -be able to communicate with a random person on the street of any country -gain access to new literature/media of any kind -be able to learn anything about the culture of native speakers (there isn't any) Realistically, there's like 1 million of esperanto speakers who are spread all over the fucking world. The chances are, you won't casually get to know someone who speaks it. Nobody but linguists has any real incentive to learn it.
>>53785942 >they don't try to stick their knowledge of it into everyone's ass like some Esperantofags here. It's not my fault people get butthurt when they discover Esperanto is a real language spoken by real people in the real world.
>>53774833 >Why did Esperanto fail? Because it was an artificial and new language that had no ties to any specific culture or nationality, and served no purpose other than being a hobby language to bored nerds.
>>53786052 The aim of Esperanto was to mix and match words from different languages to create an easy to learn international language, something that can be spoken and understood by people from all countries around the globe to improve and strengthen international ties and help break down the language barrier; it's why a lot of the words resemble French, Russian, English etc
It isn't suppose to be unique, it isn't a completely fictional language like that of Lord of the Rings.
>>53786067 I never said this though, I just pointed out that for me the reason it never caught on is the lack of actual use, the lack of a territory to speak it and the lack of a soul and history. Thing is with you guys, as soon as someone criticizes Esperanto you go apeshit and try to prove how good it is, trying to shut people's mouths and not being critical of your own point of view at all. That's some vegetarian tier shit here and probably the reason many people don't even bother being serious in these discussions.
Again, I love languages and never said Esperanto isn't a "real" one. I just pointed out why I don't see it being relevant at all and why it never caught on. Perhaps if Neutral Moresnet was a thing I'd believe it.
>>53786278 >as soon as someone criticizes Esperanto Please, 99.99% of the "criticism" are meaningless buzzwords (like "autistic" and "soulless") and objectively wrong claims ("there is no literature in Esperanto"), not to mention conspiracy theories about Jews.
>>53786404 Nah its still a hobby even then or are you telling me there are actually people who speak Esperanto as a first language... Oh god there are aren't there? There are parents out there that pushed this shit on their kids even more extremely than the Australian's parents
>>53786404 you do understand that 95% of people have it as a second language, and the ones who don't had it pushed on them by their Esperanto hobbyist parents? and this does not make it any more of a legitimate language
>>53786190 Do they don't teach you anything at school? There were multiple case studies and experiments about forming of language. Pope put two children in the room to see if they speak any sort of language. In the end, they weren't able. Also, wild child case in which kid who grew in the forest knows no language. I am glad there are some ethical rules otherwise bakas like you would hurt people.
>>53786404 >autistic it's a buzzword for literally everything on 4chan nigger >soulless it's a subjective word and nonetheless I never see any arguments against it. It doesn't get a soul because some random people start talking about it >there is no literature in Esperanto only faggots who don't know anything at all say that to trigger you, and it always works. It's not like it even is an argument in favour of Esperanto, even Klingon has literature. Otherwise you didn't even respond to my arguments, as always you just start whining about "you always say the same things which are wrong but don't let me go into it and defend myself" Also you only defend yourself against the autistic ones on fucking /int/ which don't even take the talk seriously. If I tell you that Esperanto has a lack of efficiency, is artificial and not neutral, how do you defend it?
>>53786525 Replying to misconceptions is only an argument if you actually bring in explications and defend your point of view, instead of just whining about everyone bashing it.
>>53786783 >Otherwise you didn't even respond to my arguments You mean the ones you ignore, such as the one about "soulless"? >>53784634
And how can you defend it against something as meaningless as "lack of efficiency"? It barely makes sense. Everyone who speaks Esperanto will tell you they have no problem expressing anything they have to express.
An, by the way, why should I have to "defend" it? Esperanto exists, period.
>>53787040 I already said that it doesn't get a "soul" just because random people of different cultures and countries can talk in it and tell a joke in Esperanto, or if it becomes hereditary. Tell me if Klingon should be considered not lacking a soul in that case.
>And how can you defend it against something as meaningless as "lack of efficiency"? It barely makes sense. Everyone who speaks Esperanto will tell you they have no problem expressing anything they have to express. Shit like -aj and -oj, and grammatical cases for example are shit that doesn't need to be in a language that supposedly has been made to be easily learned. Ido got it right there for example. Other point is the fact that even after one hundred years there aren't that many people who speak it, and even less who speak it fluently, and it's not growing at all compared to world population. It's not an efficient language if there's not a core population who can keep it, going again to the lack of soul and history/society.
>An, by the way, why should I have to "defend" it? Esperanto exists, period. Again, you're retarded m8. That's a dumb position to say that you don't have to defend it, if you're constantly calling out people who present their arguments. Also I wrote several times I don't care about the existence, that isn't a problem. I'm more criticizing retards that can't take criticism and act like they need to convert people by force like Jehova's Witnesses and hardcore vegetarians.
>>53787473 So basically, "soul" and "efficiency" don't mean anything.
>I'm more criticizing retards that can't take criticism and act like they need to convert people by force like Jehova's Witnesses and hardcore vegetarians. Lel. Basically, almost every time someone mentions Esperanto (even when you're not trying to convince of anything, just stating that you speak it), some people will begin tell you it's shit and that you're a retard for learning it and make you defend yourself against arguments you've heard a thousand times, even if you didn't want to get into an argument in the first place. Pretty much any Esperanto speaker with a little experience is sick of this shit.
>>53787788 >So basically, "soul" and "efficiency" don't mean anything. again just dodgin arguments.
>Basically, almost every time someone mentions Esperanto (even when you're not trying to convince of anything, just stating that you speak it), some people will begin tell you it's shit and that you're a retard for learning it You're retarded if you take baits that easily, that is the problem. Why do you do it? I talked some weeks ago with an Hungarian anon who would spend New Year's Eve with about one hundred other Esperantists, I found it really interesting and probably spent several hours talking about it after. In this thread I just wrote what I personally don't like about it, and you directly got triggered and started being a jerk for no reason. Do you get it?
>and make you defend yourself against arguments you've heard a thousand times, even if you didn't want to get into an argument in the first place sorry, but if you want to talk about it in this kind of board and get people who have legitimate criticism and qrustions you can't just say that you're tired and that they should fuck off. This is the kind of thing that attracts baits and faggots in the first place.
>Pretty much any Esperanto speaker with a little experience is sick of this shit. I understand this lad, but like it's the case with veggies you either explain it once per thread and then link to more (non-biased) information, and if someone asks again you link to your previous post or you at least don't say anything. Replying with butthurt to trolls is literally the least intelligent thing you can do on fucking 4chan
I don't see anymore need to talk about this as it's probably starting to turn in circles soon. I hope you get my point of view and think about how you act against people who have legitimate questions. If you don't, well, it's not my problem, but then stop whining about it. Have a nice evening m8
>>53787788 >Basically, almost every time someone mentions Esperanto (even when you're not trying to convince of anything, just stating that you speak it), some people will begin tell you it's shit and that you're a retard for learning it and make you defend yourself against arguments you've heard a thousand times, even if you didn't want to get into an argument in the first place. Pretty much any Esperanto speaker with a little experience is sick of this shit.
this to be quite honest family
Not to pick on the anon who said we were "going apeshit" but really...Been hearing this stuff against Esperanto for years, once in a while I will say "that's not true" or "I disagree" and suddenly it means I am a warrior for the Esperanto movement or something...
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