[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y ] [Search | Home]
4Archive logo
Do turks understand chinese turk?
If images are not shown try to refresh the page. If you like this website, please disable any AdBlock software!

You are currently reading a thread in /int/ - International

Thread replies: 92
Thread images: 4
Do turks understand chinese turk?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dovQECvRv2I
>>
>tfw brother has killed dozens of Xinjian turks while in the police force

feels good 2bh. Remove more kebab than the "whites" here
>>
>>53464156
yeah sort of
>>
>>53464185
well it is okay if they were seperatist
>>
qurtulush yolida sudek
kurtuluş yoluda ????
aqti bizning qanimiz
aktı bizim kanımız
sen üçün ey yurtumuz
senin için ey yurdumuz
bolsun pida bu janimiz
olsun feda bu canımız
>>
>>53464258
>well it is okay if they were seperatist
they tried to flee across the border
>>
>>53464267
how can be that close?? didn't turkic spread happen centuries ago? and they were lots of people in anatolia before them, it didn't change the language?

it almost look like a dialect
>>
>>53464336
Three words: Turkish Language Reform.
>>
>>53464156
Yeah we do
>>
>>53464461
how was turkish before that reform

i want comparisons
>>
>>53464571
I don't understand how the reform might affect that. Before the reform we had more loan words and all that but a turkish guy from 200 years ago would still understand the video.
>>
>>53464641
oops I thought the russian guy said that in a "their language was totally re-made" way
>>
File: 936.jpg (79 KB, 680x497) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
936.jpg
79 KB, 680x497
https://next.ft.com/content/a6d2a690-6545-11e4-91b1-00144feabdc0

Reminder that there are now more Christians than Communist party members in China

Reminder that by 2030 China will have the most Christians on earth

Reminder that the conversion rate just keeps increasing

Reminder that when China is eventually converted the Deus Vulting will be unstoppable and the world will see Christianity's true power levels
>>
>>53464571
The only more or less standardized language was Ottoman Turkish. And it was quite different to modern Turkish. Read a book or Wiki, nigger.

Most of Turkey spoke plebspeak dialects that would vary from province to province though.

>>53464641
Nice taqiyya.
>>
>>53464669
nah, just the transition of turkish into latin alphabet, its different because anatolian turkish is now read-as-written
>>
>>53464673
They are our last hope against islam.
>>
>>53464669
It was one of the more if not the most radical language reforms. Lots of (mostly incompetent) people coining new words often out of their asses, reviving words found in early Turkic manuscripts violating sound shift laws etc.
>>
>>53464736
Epic.
>>
>>53464681
the ottoman turkish you see in books is the language of the nobles, it was heavily mixed with persian

its like how the roman nobles spoke greek to each other but the common people spoke latin
>>
>>53464673
sad

buddhism > christianism
>>
>>53464737
https://youtu.be/OOECyf3_zTg
Pretty much, Europe is beyond saving tbqh
>>
>>53464760
there is been explosian in sultanahmet, what do you think abou it janitoryan?
>>
>>53464776
Did I say anything to the opposite?

It was also the language of literature.
>>
>>53464156
Kurtuluş yolunda sudek
Aktı bizim kanımız.
Senin için ey yurdumuz
olsun feda bu canımız

Kan içip hem can bilip
Ahir kurtardık seni,
Kalbimizde korkusuzca
vardı imanımız

Yarı hem dem oldu bizim
Himmetimiz senin için
Dünyanı surgun idi
Himmet ile ejdadımız

Yurdumuz biz yüz-gözünü
Kan ile pak eyledik
Şimdi hiç kirletmiyeceğiz
Çünkü Türktür Namımız

Atilla,Cengiz,Timur
Dünyayı titrettirdi
Can verip Şan alımız
Biz hem, onlar evladıyız biz

Çıktı Can hem aktı kan
Düşmanın oldu el aman
Yaşasın hiç ölmesin
Parlasın İstikbalimiz
Pretty much this in Turkish. Yeah It's %99 understandable.
>>
>>53464811
Depends on who's responsible for it;)
>>
File: malum.png (1012 KB, 720x741) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
malum.png
1012 KB, 720x741
>>53464877
:D problaly pkk did it, response to operations in the cizre and sur and shit
>>
>>53464681
M8 the Ottoman Turkish was the language of beurocrasy and other elegance stuff. People were speaking this Turkish.
>>
>>53464950
That's why you had to rewrite that one Ataturk's speech several times after the language reform so that people could understand it...
>>
>>53464950
the example:

>From Anatolian Oghuz Turkic (Our ancestors and shit 1000 years ago)
Ev aydından bu gice eyle (ayla) toldı
Kişi göden degüldi vurdı (y)itti

>Modern Turkish:
Ev aydınlandı bu gece ayla doldu
Kişi göden(aptal) değildi, vurdu gitti,
>From Codex Cumanicus
Bilge, tetik kişiler
menim sözim eşitingler
eki yolnı ayrınglar

>Modern Turkish:
"Bilge, akıllı kişiler"
"benim sözümü işitsinler"
"iki yolu ayırsınlar"
>>
>>53465039
He was an Ottoman commander. He was trying to be elite. I had chance to saw my great grandfather and he wasn't speaking weird language.
This is from 1736, Notes of Persia of an Ottoman.

"Yezd ile Kerman arasında kum deryası dedikleri vardır ki inceliği ve beyazlığı saat kumu gibidir ve bir köyleri vardır ki yolcular konar. Damlara ve sokaklara bir adam nazar etse gûya kar yağmış sanır. Yol üzerinde bir buçuk, iki saat çekecek kadar yerde kule gibi miller yapılıdır ki karşına tutar da öyle gidersin. Eğer o milleri sağına veya soluna alır isen, yolu şaşırırsın ve birer ikişer minare derinliğinde kum ile dolmuş hendekler vardır ki hiç belli değil. Atın ayağı eğer oralara basacak olursa kurtulmak muhaldır. Çabalandıkça batar gider."

How is that different from the language that I'm speaking? You know shit Alaverdiyan.
>>
Now I want to learn turkish tbqh
>>
>>53465149
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJucB1sf4mE

This is uyghur with Turkish subtitles, pablo.
>>
>>53464796
You never seen real buddhism.
>>
>>53465123
I'm not talking about the original version. It had to be translated twice (in 1963 and 1982)...
Anecdotal evidence proves nothing... The artificial nature of Turkish is proved by the fact that I couldn't find a single etymological dictionary of it on the Internet. I would like to be proven wrong on this though, can you provide one? Not Nishanyan's website if possible.
>>
>>53465149
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u-LS5eokHU

This is Nogay with Turkish subtitles.

Some of these words also exist in Turkish but the translator didn't use them as original because they're not wide-spoken.
>>
>>53465253
Dude more or less every language in the last century had a 'reform' in order to remove outside influences.
>>
>>53465241
can't be worse than inquisition
>>53465207
closer than castilian and asturian
>>
>>53465295
Not really. And not in the scope of the Turkish reform anyway.
>>
>>53465253
Mustafa Kamâl's speech:
En son olarak niyazım şudur ki, Cenâb-ı Vacibü’l-Amal Hazretleri, Habib-i Ekrem’i hürmetine, bu mübarek vatanın sahip ve müdafii ve diyabeti celile-i Ahmediye’nin ilâyevnilkıyâme- haris-i estakı olan millet-i necibemizi ve
makam-ı saltanat ve hilâfet-i kübrâyı masun ve mukaddesatımızı düşünmekle mükellef olan heyetimizi muvafık buyursun.

Nobody would understand this if he/she isn't studying history.

Mustafa Kamâl's another speech after the republic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ-KajhkqMU

Even kids would understand this.
>>
>>53465241
>implying there is a real Buddhism
There just are different types of Buddhism, but none are more real than the others.
>>
>>53465370
So why did you have to tranlsate the 1934 version of Nutuk twice then?
And provide an etymological dictionary pls.
>>
>>53464185
>flag

everytime
>>
>>53465309
>>53465405
They're Worse and also Rich as fuck.
Inquisition only kills some thousand and the way they dead are less pain, also Inquisition more likely remove heathen than kill them.
While medieval Buddhism authority listen to monks and torture other heathen to force religion.
Nowadays they're super rich, 9/10 you seen a monk there go outside when they ride a very good bike or a shiny car.
You think they good because you only read the book, not really see what really happen.
>>
>>53465452
>And provide an etymological dictionary pls.
Not everything is on Internet you know?


Nutuk was written in Ottoman language and with Arabic Alphabet on. It was written from 1919 to 1923. We started to use latin alphabet from 1928 and the language reform was from 1932 to 38. Why are you arguing about this with me? I am Turkish and studying history and have knowledge about the Ottoman Language.
>>
>>53465617
Chinese people are morally bankrupt animals anyway.
>>
>>53465649
Don't know what Chirstian Chinese do, but now they being persecuted by the Authority.
Also, most Chinese are religion-less or folk religion which is one of the reasons they have less morally unlike Europe get cucked when abandon religion.
>>
>>53465645
Provide a link to some online bookstore or something then, surely it is possible to order an etymological dictionary of Turkish?

As far as I understand there was an original (?) version of Nutuk in the Latin alphabet in 1934. Then it had to be translated twice to meet whatever was the state of modern Turkish in 1963 and 1983 respectively. Why? You haven't answered that.
>>
>>53465452
Because Ataturk was an elite.
>>
>>53465617
That's due to American influence, and if I remembered correctly they are trying to clamp down on that corruption.
>>
>>53465866
Epük.
>>
>>53465333
tell that to the relatinized french
>>
>>53465789
Idk, I need the check them and yes there was latinized version of Nutuk in 1934, it was three books. They have published Nutuk as a one book in 1938 too.


http://urun.n11.com/diger/turk-dilinin-etimoloji-sozlugu-P75120882?cid=604001&gclid=CKK52-KJpMoCFRFmGwodrjwLHw


the most famous one.
>>
>>53465893
he was
>>
>>53465789
do your own research before spouting bs armenian
>>
>>53465966
Ya sorma amınakoyim anti-kamâlist olan bana herifin eseri hakkında konuşturuyor.
>>
>>53465881
I hate retards hippy talk about how good Buddhism and how bad other religion, well, they retard anyway.
The reason Buddhism so calm now because many countries already abandon it or either become minority religion, but if you talk the country have it in majority like Myanmar which currently persecuted other religion and Thailand, which currently in civil war and the small other just too irrelevant for media, you will know how bad it is.
>>
>>53465961
Why did he look like a South Slav bydlo then? Checkmate, bozkurt.

>>53465955
Ok, thanks, I will try to order it ;)

>>53465966
K.
>>
Lagman > Kebabs and it's not even close.
>>
>>53466056
Why is it so bad?
>>
>>53466064
He doesn't look like a slav and his ethnicity would be irrelevant to being an elite. I'm no bozkurt.
>>
>>53466006
adam asalak ermeni, hidela gec hocu
>>
>>53466207
>that potato nose
Oh yes he did.

>his ethnicity would be irrelevant to being an elite
His looking like a bydlo would though.

>I'm no bozkurt
Sure ;)
>>
>>53466343
lol... you're not even trying anymore
>>
>>53464185
>new zealand
Can't make this shit up.
>>
>>53466365
>lol... you're not even trying anymore
What did you mean by that?
>>
>>53466198
The worst of them just like inquisition.
But except dealing with Heretic them dealing with Heathen.
Inquisition hangs and burn you, they torture you to death.
Inquisition target a little group through a long time, they target a big group in a short time.
Inquisition with Christian is for a few age, but with them is Inquistion For Life.
In the country where Buddhism is the majority, shit will happen.
But if not? they just like Chirstian in Muslim Country. Calm, Peace and Good. Which is happening in West Country.
Christian and Muslim is must better than them, honestly.Country which Buddhism is majority, either in chao or too irrelvant.
>>
>>53466405
nothing nothing enjoy your funposting :^)
>>
>>53465405
>>53465241
I want corporatized Buddhism to die.
>>
>>53466667
Thanks, I sure will ;^)
>>
>>53464156
I have been in Shangai and Beijing in 2008.
I have saw some Xinjian Turks and talked a little in Turkish.
Numbers are totally same, language is similar.
It is closer than how close German and English are to each other.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7Onl6V_nvM
>>53464571
the pleb language stayed mostly the same, it is the "formal" language that got reformed. Beurecracy/literary language had many foreign words (70% foreign, maybe 30% Turkic). Think of it like English.
>>
>>53465253
Nişanyan Sözlüğü
dumb erm*ni can't even appreciate his own kind's work :D

You are just speculating by the way, the anon is right, the language that got reformed is the language of bureucracy/elite, the common folk's language hasn't been affected by TDK's reforms, even though TDK aimed to change it as well.
>>
>>53469074
Are you autistic? I know about that dictionary and I specifically asked him not to post it because Nishanyan isn't a linguist.

>You are just speculating by the way, the anon is right, the language that got reformed is the language of bureucracy/elite, the common folk's language hasn't been affected by TDK's reforms, even though TDK aimed to change it as well.
Lel, proofs? All I've said so far is based on The Turkish language reform: a catastrophic success by G. Lewis.
>>
>>53469276
forgot trip ;^(
>>
>>53469276
>because Nishanyan isn't a linguist.
because he doesn't have a diploma? lel
>Lel, proof
sure thing.
>17th century, Kul Mustafa
Kalktı yelken eyledi Murat Reis
Baş başa düşmana varırım demiş
Vaktinize hazır olun gaziler
Ya ser verir ya ser alırım demiş.
>21st century turkish
Kalktı yelken eyledi Murat Reis
Baş başa düşmana varırım demiş
Vaktinize hazır olun gaziler
Ya ser verir ya ser alırım demiş
>18th century, Bayburtlu Zihni
Zihni dert elinden her zaman ağlar
Sordum ki bağ ağlar bağban ağlar
Sümbüller perişan güller kan ağlar
Şeyda bülbül terk edeli bu bağı
>21st century modern turkish translation
Zihni dert elinden her zaman ağlar
Sordum ki bağ ağlar BAHÇIVAN ağlar
Sümbüller perişan güller kan ağlar
Şeyda bülbül terk edeli bu bağı
>19st century Dadaloğlu
Belimizde kılıcımız kirmani
Taşı deler mızrağımın temreni
Hakkımızda devlet etmiş fermanı
Ferman padişahın dağlar bizimdir.
>21st century modern turkish translation
Belimizde kılıcımız kirmani****
Taşı deler mızrağımın temreni
Hakkımızda devlet etmiş fermanı
Ferman padişahın dağlar bizimdir.

***Kirman is a city in Iran so even though people might not know what Kirmani means, there is not translation for Kirmani :^)


I can go further back if you'd like? Here is my favorite poet who didn't even live in Anatolia, but in Iran, and who is known for his "artsy" language he uses in his work.
>14th century Nesimi
Hâr içinde biten gonca güle minnet eylemem
Arabi Farisi bilmem, dile minnet eylemem
Sırat-i müstakim üzre gözetirim rahimi
iblisin talim ettiği yola minnet eylemem
>translation
Hâr içinde biten gonca güle minnet eylemem
Arapça Farsça bilmem, dile minnet eylemem
Sırat-i müstakim üzre gözetirim rahimi
iblisin talim ettiği yola minnet eylemem
>>
>>53469752
oops, forgot the say, "hâr" isn't in common use nowadays, it means "diken". So I'll give you that too
>>
>>53469752
>because he doesn't have a diploma
Yes, exactly. Amateurs not wanted.

I want an article or a book (preferably not by a t*rk) that says so. I am not good enough at Turkish to detect the extent of taqiyya in your post.
>>
>>53469861
>want proofs
>get proofs
>""uh, not them, heheh, something else!! :D"
It is your turn to provide proofs that 19th century's folk Turkish and 20th/21st century's folk Turkish is any different. Or I call the moustache man ;^D
>>
>>53469924
>le copypasta from some no-name mudslimes who got executed for being heretics
>proof
Epic, simply epic ;^) I want works from respectable scholars.
Can you provide le folklanguage words for geometrical figures?
>>
>>53470063
kopi past değil alın teri, kendi kitaplarımdan yazdım ;) emeğe saygı +1 vs. vs. vs.
>kul mustafa
>dadaloğlu
>heretics
>no name
huh :D My proof stands, I don't have to find an article that suits your point of view. Poetry is the prime example of folk language and you can see in these works that the langauge is same (or you can't, because you don't know Turkish).
So if you have any objections, come with proofs that these language"""s""" above are actually different. I will accept even Greek or Armenian works :^)

If you want sources for the poems though, I'd be glad to give you them. Might even translate for you :)
>>
>>53470417
You cannot be sure those poems weren't edited then... Never trust anything that comes from Turkey. Not even memeing.

Like I said everything I say is based on the book I mentioned earlier. And it says that any kind of Turkish before the reform differs quite a bit from the post-reform Turkish.

If the whole reform was just going from Ottoman Turkish to le folk Turkish as you seem to imply then why did TDK have people coining new words and reviving words from shit like Dīwān ul-Lughat al-Turk (some Azeri autists are still doing this xD) etc?

I would like to work with what you have presented but I'm not good enough at Turkish and you'd be able to deceive me with ease. So I want something from Western scholars.
>>
off as*la being cringy as fuck as always
>>
şu belçikalı cuck'a cevap vermeyin
>>
And what about Kazakh? Do Turks understand anything hearing/reading this language?
>>
>>53470714
>You cannot be sure those poems weren't edited then.
kek, okay mister armenian memester. And I thought I could actually talk with you
>namedrops one (1) book, without even writing the part related
>ignores everything I wrote
>only accepts "scholarly works" that suits him
srsly though you should return to behave like you were just janitoryan.
>>53472115
Kazakh is a Kıpçak language and is harder to understand than Karluk (Uzbek and Uygur) languages for Oghuz speakers. Turkish-Kazak relation is like English-German relation, while Turkish-Uygur relation is like Swedish-German relation, if that makes sense for you.
>>
>>53470714
>If the whole reform was just going from Ottoman Turkish to le folk Turkish as you seem to imply then why did TDK have people coining new words and reviving words from shit like Dīwān ul-Lughat al-Turk
didn't read this part before, and you are wrong again, because I didn't even imply that.
>>53469074
> the common folk's language hasn't been affected by TDK's reforms, even though TDK aimed to change it as well.
>>
>>53472890
thx
>>
>>53472890
>Swedish-German
swiss-german*
>>
>>53472890
>kek, okay mister armenian memester. And I thought I could actually talk with you
Actually, that's also pretty much the same approach I take regarding Armenia-Armenian sources on history and linguistics. Most of them are rubbish because academia is filled with butthurt nationalists (at least it isn't as bad as Azerbaijan's though ;^)). One of the positive outcomes of the Genocide is that it caused the emergence of Western-educated and almost unbiased scholars of Armenian descent conducting research on all things Armenian.

>>namedrops one (1) book
Which is also kinda the most authorative one on the subject and written by an Oxford professor of Turkish.

>without even writing the part related
The part related to what exactly do you want? That both modern written and modern "folk" Turkish differ from the pre-reform "folk" Turkish? I don't remember if it explicitly states that but I will try to find it.

>ignores everything I wrote
Now, did I?!

>only accepts actual scholarly works
FTFY

>>53473141
Well if you weren't implying that then you don't make much sense, do you?
How could the reform not affect the "folk language" in the age of public education?
And what was the state doing by the reform then if not making "the language of bureaucracy/elite" more "folk"-like, in your opinion?
It was doing exactly that and in the same time doing the opposite by making up new words and reviving the dead ones thus eliminating both Ottoman and "folk" words of Arabic and Persian origin. I.e. "purifying" it.

Some of the new words started being used by the "folk" and some stayed just in written/official language or didn't get any use at all.
>>
>>53475867
Forgot my trip again :^(
>>
>>53475867
>thus eliminating
trying to eliminate*
>>
>>53464796
Close. Confucianism + Taoism + Buddhism > Christianity
Thread replies: 92
Thread images: 4
Thread DB ID: 402998



[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the shown content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows their content, archived. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content, then use the post's [Report] link! If a post is not removed within 24h contact me at [email protected] with the post's information.