>>53335626 Because most Europeans admittedly dislike Americans and the US and patronize us at every given opportunity, all the while enjoying most of what we do for them, like liberating their shitty tourist cities.
Hitler would have peaced out after a separate humiliation from Stalin. Russian winter completely fucked his shit up on the eastern front. Luckily, you guys didn't let Stalin do his thing and half of Germany didn't turn into Soviet clay.
Probably because Americans exaggerate the American role just as often. Throughout my entire high school education I don't think I'd spent more than a few days covering information about the Eastern front. History class every year was literally just MUH D-DAY MUH HOLOCAUST, rinse, and repeat. Every year.
>>53335626 America admittedly played a huge role in WW2 both with helping the UK and the Soviet Union with lend lease, their strategic bombing campaign and the western front, but people also hate it when Americans act like they won WW2 on their own since the Russians played an even bigger role by tying up most of the Wermacht on the eastern front and a hell of a lot more Russians died than Americans, so it pisses them off.
>>53335919 We don't even study WW2 in public school history classes here, curriculum leaders assume students are going to be familiar with how that one went down. >History class every year was literally just MUH D-DAY MUH HOLOCAUST Literally?
>>53336005 Soviets would'nt have defeated the Germans if: A. Americans didn't intervene to give Germany a two front war B. The mass American aid sent to the Soviets in the form of trucks, shoes and equipment.(1/3rd of Soviet-employed tanks were built by the US in 1945)
>>53335626 They're retards who spout RT memes because of their butthurt at America's relevance, or because they think America is the great Satan and they are incapable of comparing it to worse powers like Russia and China.
>>53336297 >battle of stalingrad without those shoes And tanks, artillery, ammo, planes, and yes shoes, because those are important if you're fighting in the Russian winter. >>53336351 hello mr cyka blad, how's the rape tour in Finland going?
>>53336241 A: Russians were and would have marched forward with or without the second front on the west B: sure, the supplies from America helped a lot. For example the vehicles allowed Russians to advance greatly faster
>>53336548 You mean those bombs that greatly missed their targets? The bombs that just terrorized civilians and did not hit military targets? Again, sure it helped, but not so that the war wouldn't have been won without it.
>>53335626 >>53336615 >millions of people died >millions more were injured mentally and physically >Europe was set back and impoverished to the point that fucking Argentina was among top five economies in the world >but let's not be so specific about who pushed the hardest, guys, it's not like it's a major historical event or anything....pointless dispute, really... This is you right now. Which really solidifies how removed American were and are from it, that they trivialize such a thing
>>53336717 I'm not saying that it would be overall irrelevant, because it of course isn't. But for person living in Europe the war here is more important, if you will, than for someone living outside of Europe. The same goes with the Pacific
>>53336611 >You mean those bombs that greatly missed their targets? Nice meme >The bombs that just terrorized civilians and did not hit military targets? Because the Soviets totally weren´t into terrorizing civilians at all. Do you honestly think lowered civilians morale is irrelevant?
>>53336700 if you don't kill so many workers that there literally isn't anyone left then it doesn't.
But sure, because of the bombings there weren't that many factories left so Krauts ran low on the equipment from time to time and more so at the end. But still, the would have been won nevertheless. What does this have to do with the price of rice in China, as the thread is about Americans saying that the war was won mainly by them, and it can be demonstrated that it wasn't?
>>53336819 B-but Germans say the most terrorizing came from USA-UK compared to their military numbers, not from soviets. I think you should listen to Germans, not to Soviets or USA and UK. The vision of the loser is the most trusworthy.
No like everything. The USSR lost almost all of their production capabilities when it took Ukraine and Belorussia. They had to move dozens of factories in Russia itself to the far East to stop them from falling into German hands. It took them almost a year to relocate and set up all of their factories in the East and during that time we were supplying a huge bulk of Soviet war supplies.
>>53336005 Half the reason the Soviets had such an easy go was because the Germans had to divert dozens of divisions from the Russian front to fight on the Western front. Not to mention that Americans made up almost 3/4 of the entire allied command.
>>53336475 Yes, im so all these bombed factories and infrastructure had no effect effect on the army in the east, aswell as the sabotage of scientific institutions, aswell as the fuel shortages, aswell as 20% of the troops not being there, aswell as americans leasing tons of vehicles WITH tanks like the brits, aswell as the americans leasing weapons, food, ammo, medical, supply, and especially a shitton of money. Oh despite being fully aware that its only a loan the soviets never paid back the money they got.
>>53337024 There are ways to assess these things and the Soviet Union was deemed the biggest contributor to the war effort. It doesn't mean other nations can't claim their part of the war effort and say they were a big part of it, especially the U.S and U.K
You have no clue how much the production was slowed on every end, the quality suffered, projects like the Maus-tank would have been operational for example if not for the bombing of the Rhine. Several other projects never got finished, you had weapons and tanks literally miss parts, read up on the Panzer IV Ausführung J and tell me american bombings hit only civilians.
>>53337179 No I was joking and you're just a dumbass. The sore loser whines and complains and can exeggerate just as much as the winner. Not saying that is always the case, but your wise saying is nonsense.
"They say things like "America did not defeat the Nazis" but how the fuck did we not?" Now, the important part here is "but how the fuck did we not?" which implies that indeed it were the Americans who brought the victory for allies. That without Americans Russia would have lost. This is not the case
Here look at the production overwies. You can see that the production by Britain and USSR (ignore the one by USA) is almost always equal and often greater than the Axis total. Now take, lets one third of the Americans production and add on top of that. Lets say that the the 2nd front was never opened, the Allies would still go over the Axis any day.
>>53337672 My point is that the same Japan was a serious power contender from 1895 to 1945. it definitely not toothless, despite Russia being a "de-clawed" bear dependent on Franco-German loans to even build basic infrastructure, with a giant illiterate population, shitty dispersed bureaucracy, industry way, way beyond its potential and a shitty emperor
>>53337675 What does your film industry have to do education? Are you saying you watch "Saving private Ryan" as a part of your education?
'coz I don't know 'bout how it's done in the western world, but here, in Regressive Russia, they tell about how our war movies are a bit overgloryfying everything. Also, about lend-lease and stuff, and British airforces. And that while our Great Patriotic War ended in May the WWII wasn't finished till September. Like, y'know, the basic stuff.
>>53338086 So there's the root of the problem. You have a problem with a single war tactic and base your opinion on it. Go ask Japs, I don't know why they drugged themselves and crashed into American targets, man
>>53338013 I'm saying your interpreation that Americans only know about US efforts in the war. Since you clearly didn't attend school in America, I can only assume your exposure to American interpretation of the war is based on Hollywood.
>>53338013 >What does your film industry have to do education? Are you saying you watch "Saving private Ryan" as a part of your education? Lolwut. Their film industry influences the mindes of the whole fucking world, including Russia.
>>53337955 that's retarded because we gave the soviets most of their equipment and fought on the western front
in the pacific the soviets invaded Manchuria meanwhile we invaded multiple islands and pretty much all of the rest of the fighting besides a little help from uk and australia part of the reason why we used the bombs was because we wanted to finish the war before the soviets became too involved and carved out a bit of japan for themselves.
>>53335626 >Why do people downplay Americas role in WW2 because while the whole world was fighting germany and etc you were taking information from Japan about Unit 731's experiments and when it got clear that fascist will lose the war you dropped the bomb on them and said that you were fighting too but you aint did shit.
A bit unrelated but if anyone has Netflix you should watch Naked Among Wolves.
It's a German made lolocaust movie set in Buchenwald, but it's pretty good. It's not just about muh poor jews. It focuses on what was going down in the camp (Both on the prisoner side and the SS side) during the weeks leading to the Americans showing up.
>>53338685 >making sure communists didn't fuck up more land in the long run Germans executed several of our officers on the Eastern Front because we neglected or abandoned German tactics. These were swiftly replaced by other high ranked Croats..by the start of 1944, high Croatian command saw Germany is going to implode and the situation against the Russians is in down spiral
We had around 15 divisions then, 140 to 150 thousand soldiers deployed. Several high command officers started talks with Brits and Americans, to swing our effort towards Allies, against Hungarians and getting into the fight in Italy/Austria
Brits denied this because they already entered into an agreement with Yugoslav Partisans. Our officers wanted that the U.S recognizes us as an independent country, we would agree on territorial settlement with Serbs after the war, and be considered a part of the Allied front
The Croatian army already started getting ready to disarm Germans on our territory as soon as Americans would give the go, but the go never came, the coup was discovered and they were executed
Now I ponder daily on the opportunity of an independent Croatia from 1941, with instituted Marshall plan, along with other countries and a part of the democratic, European block
The nazis lost when they decided to attack the USSR. while American intervention on Africa (yes the number of germans in africa would barely be enough for a skirmish on the easter front but it still counts somwhat) /Western Europe and lend lease aid helped to spread nazis thin and relieve the USSR's factories it, wasn't enough to decide the outcome of the war. One could argue that the German incompetence and shitty army is half to blame for their demise (Fucking fighting a war in russia while STILL USING HORSES AND MULES FOR SUPPLIES)
Also the empire of Japan was a thing, but let's not forget the millions of Chinese and Japanese troops clashing in mainland china.
tl;dr the Allies won, not USA, not just Russia (this isn't an alternate universe so there's no point in arguing if they COULD have), not just Bongland etc...
>>53335626 Americans just made sure the war ended in 1945. The russian industrial potential and willingness to throw huge amounts of manpower into german machineguns pretty much sealed the deal post 1943.
It's pretty dubious if they would be ever defeated even if they didn't receive american aid, even if in hypothetical situation where the germans captured moscow the soviet union wouldn't be defeated.
>>53338685 >making sure communists didn't fuck up more land in the long run That is indeed a great thing. I can't stand Russians when they're 2000 kilometers away from me let alone if they run things around here.
>>53339630 with out lend lease the soviets would have run out of supplies and without USA involvement there wouldn't be a 2 front war meaning hitler could focus his whole attention on russia japan could also invade russia from the east meaning russia would be the one fighting a 2 front war
hypothetical scenarios are useless though since really anything can happen in war, 1 fuck up can be the shift.
you could say uk and us could have won the war without russia or that russia and uk could have could have won the war on their own. unless you can bend time or something its all just speculation.
>>53341328 >top fucking kek, the russian were already zerging through ukraine at that point ya and zerging is not a win all strategy if you looked at hitler's gains at the beginning of the war you would say that he had victory in the bag. all you can do is speculate, you can't be certain of anything since this is all hypothetical
>>53335626 No one downplays America's role, especially since their massive economy helped the Soviet Union and when they fought a gruesome, horrible war in the asian jungles. Without them, victory over the Reich would not have been possible.
It's just that other nations also contributed a lot. The USSR fought Nazi Germany far more than the USA did, sacrifying a lot more in this conflict. Also, other smaller nations want to claim their own share of glory (Greece's or Yugoslavia resistance, Finland, Canada... Even us French, with all our free french forces helping Britain in North Africa and in Italy).
So, nobody downplays the massive role of your forefather who helped the free world. It's just that others also want to claim their countryman's part :^)
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