Heads

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>>3123972
Even the stylized, ball and cross heads look like shit. I have to try so many times to get something that vaguely works.

>>3123972
>>3123981
>picking the single most difficult in art - the head
>stressing over fucking up
>not accepting the fact that you will produce pro-abortion arguments with your first 9000 drawings
>not posting more of your work to judge your specific weaknesses
>not saying whether these are from imagination or reference
>not asking this question in the /beg/inner thread
>smdh famalam

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>>3123972
here is mine when I first started if it makes you feel better

>>3123972
either you dont understand anatomy or you don't understand basic forms ( box,sphere, cylinder) or both.

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you should be able to do these

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>>3124002
Sort of but they're ugly, who cares.

>>3123987
Sadly I'm not /beg/, I've been at it for 3 years... these are all from imagination but I use reference when I'm learning

>>3123972
spend some time copying references and shit. Being able to copy from the real world helps keep a nice little library in your head so that when you attempt to construct shit, you'll probably just do a random circle with a line or two

>>3124032
>but they are ugly

thats why you only use the base no the shitty style

>>3124032
not bad, you fucked up the old guy on the left's forehead wrinkles, they follow no form.

burne hogarth's book on head drawing

>>3123972

If you are serious about beginning drawing heads, you should watch this lecture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T7cDY7YDsg

It's roughly 3 hours long, but the lecture part is only about an hour and half, then there are some master studies, assignments and lastly the lecturer shows his approach to those assignments. It's not loomis method, but different type of head construction which I have found more simple. It has little less rules and sort of "under drawing" than loomis method, but uses rather loose construction of proportions (and the basic construction of skull) and observing the model correctly. Of course mastering this method allows you to use the approach and workflow to drawing from imagination. I can't emphasize enough the importance of early loose soft lay in of proportions without any commitment to abstract shapes like silhouette or eyes or mouth etc.

I have been drawing for few months using this method and have improved a lot on getting likeness on my portraits.

>>3123972
>>3124398
oh and to add, I really hate those "countless measurements" you mentioned that are involved in Loomis method and it's why it was such unattractive approach for me to begin. I see people asking stuff here like "Is the width of the head approx eight eyes and height about twelve" etc etc. and I really feel they are missing the point and are instantly drawn (no pun intended) to the tunnel vision and jumping in the accurate details and abstract shapes rather than looking the piece as whole from beginning.

OP here, thanks for the input everyone.

>>3124401
>>3124398
Will look into that lecture, hopefully switching to what Houston says will work better.

>>3124398
How does the Reilly method stack up to this?

>>3123972
Keep trying dickhead.

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>>3124450
If you mean the reilly abstraction here's a passage from a book:

"The philosophy behind this concept is that by simplifying the complex shapes of the subject in to their simpler geometric counterparts and further observing their relationships, the artist can more efficiently and consistently accomplish a desired result."

The method Steve Huston is showing on the lecture is very similar and probably based on the same idea and approach. I just googled some pictures of the Reilly method and it seems like there are lot of contour lines (pic related) and I often skip those and plot the volumes out while rendering. The method on the lecture might be a little more "sculpturesque" resembling very soft graphical block where you plot out your proportions in the beginning. I didn't find out good step by step Reilly abstraction images at glance so can't really say how you begin the Reilly sort of drawing.

>>3124398
Would you mind showing your use of the method, just curious

How do you draw the eyes and mouth? I can't wrap my head around them, especially when in perspective

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>>3124506
These are bit old and the right most is my first try at pastels - eyes are horrible, really a mess, but I kinda like the skin which was made with 3 different colors. The middle one is nice and chiseled, even tho it lacks a little bit of shading in the side of the nose (the keystone - the outstretching part between your eyebrows - is too wide). Left one has a little bit problem with the axis tilt of the eyes.

Like I said above I have drawn these for roughly two months now and have vastly improved on my head drawing and I can see there is a lot of room for improvement which I'm happy to notice.

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>>3124520
>>3124506
resized pic

>>3124520
>>3124523
Thanks for showing, really nice, must be relieved when you find a head method that works for you, it can be a nightmare.

>>3124520
>>3124523
Why give advice to others when you're /beg/ tier yourself... I have no idea why people do that

>>3124534
Just trying to point out there are more methods than just Loomis, and to show that anyone can improve from shit tier to have somewhat base grounds where to learn more. I'm not telling people what to do or giving them advice on what they are doing wrong, just pointing them out to useful resources.

>>3124531
Yeah and everyday the heads get a little better and better, and I can quite well see whats wrong with them / where is room to improve. Currently there is lot but I know where I need to pay attention while plotting out the first stages of the drawing.

>>3124520
Push your values more and don't draw a sharp line for hair in that style (as you did with the woman on the left). But you are well on your way, nice job.

>>3123972
I know that feel OP. Don't give up though.

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>>3123972
So you looked at this box you've drawn and said "yea, I'm okay with that. Let's add the facial features, that'll make it look good."

You're focusing on detail instead of the foundation it rests on.
Learn to draw a straight line, no joking. Learn the basics of perspective and draw form, still lifes, cups, plants or bugs, but FOR FUCK'S SAKE, don't draw the most intricate, most challenging subject you could pick in the whole world before you learn the basics.
It's all there in the sticky. Drawabox is where you should be spending your evenings right now.

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>>3123987
>you will produce pro-abortion arguments with your first 9000 drawings

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>>3123972
try michael hampton's book
it worked for me

>>3124534

Why do the people who are obviously not /beg/inners anymore don't show their art and give advices to the ones that need it. I wonder.

>>3126788
Because that's namefagging with your style instead of a tripcode.

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OK, so since you seem to have problem understanding construction I will share my method. I have to go work soon so I can only show something very brief.
I don't think there's any point in most construction as it does not address the points of mastery in understanding the ACTUAL construction of a FACE and not humans in general.
This is a shitty MS paint image that you probably can't understand. I don't have any time to explain but I want to at least get the point across that there are completely rational ways to construct a face without using some ridiculous as sphere bullshit. In the end those construction methods rely on you understand. I made my own method using tings I've observed myself.
I use an up right pentagram that looks like an obtuse triangle from any angle other than straight ahead and behind. The measurements I use are purely in relation to that shape you draw. These are what I find to give you a human appearance.
The first thing to note is that the distance from the sides of the pentagram to the tip. This distance marks how old the subject will looks. Age and Masculinity are very closely related so you could use it for both. Shorter distance would mean younger and more feminine in appearance. That simple.
I'm running out of time so try to see what I did with the bottom shape in the shitty MS paint image.
Blue is the overall position of the skull
Red shows where the neck falls. The thinner the neck is, the younger and more feminine it looks.
Green is the jaw. The longer the jaw is the more masculine/older it looks.
Black shows where the pentagon/obtuse triangle falls.
Pink shows where the ears fall
Purple loosely shows a skull so you can see why exactly everything falls where they do.

This is the only method that makes sense to me. All that sphere shit is asinine. IMO. I'm a lazy artist that has no desire to create anything though. I'm an autist and can't stand not understanding something

I'll go into more detail later. When I get off of work.

>>3126944
epic

>>3126944
I want to see a da Vinci style journal full of all your theories on proportions.

>>3123972
Kek I know your pain, but why are you drawing heads as cubes if you're doing Loomis?
>"The head is totally unlike a cube from any angle"

You're supposed to start with a circle because the skull resembles a sphere the most.

>>3126944
Der ist ja trolling

>>3124002
Fuck I hate the way Loomis draws heads. The sphere is an annoying shape.

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>>3124398
This makes me wanna buy his courses on NMA but I'm poor as shit

>>3123972
Get a simplified 3d model of the head
get any 3d modeling software
load the model and "pose" the head how you want it
trace it while taking note of the proportions
if you know a method of construction use it once the head is done
then try to do it without the 3d head
repeat a millon times for the most used angles.

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>>3126968
>>3126971
>>3126994
Hey if you guys have criticisms then share it. I didn't come to these conclusions because I just didn't feel like studying.
or you can just use me as a whipping boy. I'm not bothered by it. I'm used to it.

here's an example of what I was speaking of next to a random skull picture I found on Google. The proportions I was speaking of are pretty much constant. It's pretty similar to most of the construction books people share around here but the difference is that it's not implying that you're starting with a completely arbitrary shape. You will start with a shape (the pentagon) that defines the subject you're trying to draw. The length and width of the pentagon, having points at which you can adjust and measure versus a sphere which has no points at which to measure from. I find having these definite points to start from makes constructing a face, and specifically the face I want helps.

I'll continue this unless I keep getting flamed. I'd rather not continue to share thoughts when nobody wants to even consider them or correct me if I have misconceptions. That kind of reaction is purely destructive and I do not want to bait more of it.

>>3123972
For everything use reference. Reference reference reference. You study and draw anatomy so that when you draw at a pose you can manipulate it slightly and have it srill appear correct but you always use reference.

>>3126548
This is a good help for setting up the gesture of the head, but Hampton's book is poor on the anatomy of the face and barely teaches on mouths, eyes and noses.

>>3127270
I think hustons book is the best for drawing the features

>>3127274
Which one? I can do simple faces but I've had problems with drawing complex portraits for weeks.

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>>3127276
figure drawing for artists

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>>3127254
Again I found another random skull picture on google but this time at different angle. The pentagon still works but approaches triangle perspective as the face that would be turns. The measuring of the eyes, brow, nose, and mouth all still hold. The nose is still along the line from the point to the top of the pentagon.
Granted, none of this helps with fleshing the face out but this is not about that. This is just what I use to start a face. The sphere is pointless in my opinion. The face is not spherical. The jaw is not spherical. Why would you draw a shape that does not have anything to do with a face, to start drawing a face? Especially a shape with no points to use for measurement.

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>>3127247
OP here. This is what I've been trying to do. I got the app Handy and I've been drawing from the planar heads.

It's still garbage when I try to tilt the head but better than nothing.

>>3127722
You're drawing too small, I also doubt that you are spending more than 3-5 minutes in each of them.

>>3127722
These really aren't that bad, but yes, you are working waaay too small.

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>>3123972
Google Reilly Method. This method is not as difficult as it looks, trust me. I struggled for months with heads and how they work, until I finally found Ron Lemen's DVD about how draw the female and male heads. It finally clicked for me.

Find a torrent of his DVDs and dive in it.

Bonus: To understanding values as well google Asaro head.

>>3127237
So what do you use? The egg Hogarth method?

>>3128337
Steve Huston's method

>>3124398
He's such a good teacher.

>>3127281
I'm late to the thread, but I am enjoying these posts. I completely agree with you that the sphere approach is crap for the same reasons you point out - there are no reference points on the sphere, and that has been holding me back as well.

If you keep elaborating on your observations, I at least will appreciate it.

>>3123972
Hi anon. I'm studying that matter too. What I would advise is take a look at how the Master did(loomis, vilpu) and look other artists doing and see how you can mix their style.

Im following this guy on instagram, @edizkan, and the man knows the way to draw quickly. I think you should take a look and see it for yourself!

>>3128519
I thought that video from Houston was all over the place. He does that sail thing but it doesn't work half the time and you have to draw cylinders or something else instead. What's the point

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Made a million corrections on this one before giving up

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>>3128972
All of these were from 3D reference (Handy). After 3 years I shouldn't be this low, it's passable when the head is in a neutral pose but as soon as it's a bit tilted up or down it becomes a monstrosity.

I've looked up Houston, the Reilly method and whatnot and they look even more complicated than Loomis. I don't know what to do, man. I just have brain farts when I draw heads. What's weird is that I'm happy with the rest of the things I draw. My figures are satisfying. Not great, but I don't wince when I look at 'em.

>>3128979

I've suffered for a long time until I just got a mentor and I've improved pretty rapidly so far.

>>3128991
Who did you work with, or if you don't want / can't say what kind of mentor are we talking about here? How much did you spend? I don't feel like I can make it through the plateau on my own this time.

Burn through as much paper as it takes to get it right. That's all, just practice and practice.

Use reference of human heads in any and all angles, facial expressions, be it male or female, fat or thin, bald or hairy. Muscle heads, wearing hats, scarves, whatever.

Break down each aspect of the human head and bring them together and understand how it works.

Practice until you get it right. You'll go through so much paper in the process. Don't give up half way through.

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>>3128979

>>3128979
You don't magically become good because you have been doing it for 3 years.

Did you trace like i told you to ?

>>3129016
What book or author?

>>3130373
looks like kevin chen to me

>>3130381
>kevin chen
thanks my man

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>>3123972
usually just look at photos, try not to draw too many hard lines. That's always my problem desu

Any good tutorials specific on drawing stylized heads? The whole point of learning to draw from every angle is making comics

>>3132460
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afIIuW5aJnk

>>3132463
>Okay so I draw a ball and a pyramid
>lmao perfect drawing
Placed how? How do you find the direction of the pyramid? Where is it attached? Does he even split the ball in half or something? How do you draw the hair?

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>>3132473
oboi
if you can't even follow the video you gotta go back to loomis