Perspective lvl autism

I don't get it...can some one explain?>>3064886
>>3064886

>>3064886
just imagine that you're tilting your canvas and add on horizons like that.

>>3064886
It's as simple as aligning center of vision and rotating the horizon in the way you want it. It says so right there!

>>3064952
It's pretty much saying that if the thing is floating in the air, it doesn't really need a horizon and it can be anywhere.

When would you ever need to use this

>>3064886
erik olson

>>3064979
I guess I don't understand how you "align the center of vision"?

>>3064886
scott robertson goes over this in depth

This is the shit I ask about in the question thread all the time but no one ever replies.

>>3065025
Where? Not in his book.

are you idiots serious
ngmi

>>3064996
that new series he's got on nma?

If it's in the cone of vision, it'll work basically.

>>3064886
If the object tilting up or down, you need to move the horizon line vertically to match the offset, but can keep the same vps generally, just move them vertically to match. If the object is tilting horizontally, you must tilt the new horizon line to match, meaning that the new horizon line will be on an offset angle, cutting through the original one at some point.
On its own, rotating the object keeps the same horizon line obviously. Now you know the three ways of rotating a cube, all you have to do is combine them and estimate while keeping as close as you can to the same field of view as your main perspective setup.

why does he choose 90° from the station point for the two point perspective vanishing points

>>3065232
Cube rotation type = horizon line movement

Vertical tilt = new horizon is parallel, above or below the original line
Horizontal tilt = new horizon is angled so that it intersects the original line at some point
Spinning (same horizon)

>>3064886
What does he mean by "90° cone"...isn't a cone a full circumference?

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https://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/perspect4.html

>>3065101
>olson is finally doing 3-point perspective
Fuck. Now I can't talk shit about him not teaching 3-point perspective.

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>>3064886
perspective makes me want to kms. To be honest my dudes - I kinda just wing it most of the time.

>this fucking page
is pretty much the perspective equivalent of 'draw the rest of the fucking owl'.

>>3065232
>If the object tilting up or down, you need to move the horizon line vertically to match the offset

But how do you figure out where exactly to move the horizon line to match the offset? You just estimate it?

What
is this shit

>>3065240
"at some point"? So just randomly picked then?

>>3065596
Not randomly. Think of it as if you have the horizon line and the object on the same layer in photoshop and you use the free transform tool on it. Then tilt it to the sides. The horizon line always stays in the exact same relation to the object when tilted horizontally.

>>3064886
>multiple horizon lines
Obvious bait /ic/ obvious bait

>>3065639
Explain anon

>>3064886
I would really like a video on this,
does anyone know which video of Erik Olson's explains it?

>>3065639
You've got a long road ahead of you if this is actually "bait" to you.

I like how nearly nobody has the same answers kek

>>3064886
Nigga just use boxes, Fuck. You see KJG doing all this BS?

>>3065708
How do you think a box is being constructed? Obviously you don't have to draw a different horizon line and do all this complex shit whenever you want to draw random objects at different angles. This is just an explanation to understand the underlying principles, which then allows you to just draw boxes.

>>3065708
Unironically this. If you just get gud at freehanding boxes correctly you can draw grids on them and place things in on the gridded box. Then if you want you can tilt the boxes and shift everything in the box accordingly. Also, >>3065726 you know you can just grab a 4 by 4 rubiks cube or a transparent plastic cube and draw that from different angles 200 times right? It's much better that way IMO

>>3065726
A lot of people want to understand the underlying principles. That's the point of this thread.

>>3064886
I think that you just create a new horizon line from the center of vision (middle of the original horizon line) and it can be tilted in any direction?.....
That's how I understand it....

?????

Erik Olson

>>3066116
He has like 10000 hours of content dude. Be more specific.

That's a good perspective book, but it's way too technical. If you're drawing comics you don't have enough time to be that accurate.

>>3065334
perspective is what makes a good artist. literally everything is in some kind of perspective and ignoring it just makes you draw flat symbols. unless youre going for a heavily symbolistic style you should be trying to master perspective, even for things like portraits. step up kid, youre holding yourself back

>>3066181
Watch all 10000 hours and internalize it, you'll be an expert at the end of it.

>>3066243
but it is good to understand all the overly technical stuff beforehand.

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>>3066264
I know your right, I'm just worried it's kind of above my head. every video I watch on it just confuses me more.

>>3064886

So Basically.....
nobody on /ic/ knows

>>3066287
That's /ic/ in a nutshell.

>>3065461
trace the receding lines of the cube back to the vanishing point to find your new horizon line. You can even consider this to be a vertical horizon line of sorts, in that you now know that the second vanishing point of the cube will also fall somewhere on this vertical line. Again, follow the convergence to find your second vp.


>>3066287 I answered it here>>3065232
>>3065240

This is the practical part that is actually useful when drawing on the fly, estimating accurately and checking your perspective quickly. If you want an in depth technical explanation then read an actual perspective book.

Is this book any good? I've heard good things about it outside of /ic/ but whenever I ask about it here everyone shits on it without giving me any reasons why, then I get accused of shilling.

>>3064886
Source on pic?

>>3066406

Perspective! For Comic Book Artists: How to Achieve a Professional Look in Your Artwork, by David Chelsea

>>3066423
Thanks family

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>>3066423
literally dove right on this despite my intense confusion. Thanks.

Does anyone know how to measure the cone of vision in 3 point perspective when you're doing it digitally?

>>3066446
what a retard, everything is right there but you are literally too fucking stupid to apply any of it

>>3066519
You're right, I must have missed the button to bring out a digital protractor. Thanks.

>>3066521
Photoshop has a ruler tool by the eye dropper tool that can measure angles. I don't know about other software.

>>3065680
Same. I think I'm only gonna understand this through a video.

If anyone is having trouble drawing anything that doesn't converge to the horizon, give this a look, skip to 8:52, hope it helps.
https://youtu.be/ImSVPLFZN5g?t=8m52s

>>3066951
He also shows how to do it with 2 and 3 point perspective in his other videos if that's what you need.

>>3066951
So tilting boxes just don't have horizon lines?

>>3064886
I feel like everything about this is just
troll.

>>3067020
What's "troll" about this you idiot. Do you believe a horizontally or vertically tilted box can not exist or something? Or do you believe they don't have vanishing points?

>>3066951
this is the first time I'm realizing that art is pure autism.

>>3067026
He's probably autistic and thinks that there can only be one horizon line.

>>3066951
I feel like I learnt nothing from that video? He didn't use multiple horizon lines and randomly placed his 3rd vp.

>>3064886
https://www.amazon.com/Vanishing-Point-Perspective-Comics-Ground-ebook/dp/B005I5EN2S

try to warez it. Pretty comprehansive reading.
Thinking about it in terms of multiple horizon lines makes it way more difficult to ge a handle of. Level of horizon line + viewers eye level. Vanishing points placed on that line given that whe objects are cube-like and placed flat on the ground. When places at different angles and such - than you have all that weird shit happenin.

>>3068320
fuck , I meant Level of horizon line = viewers eye level

>>3064886
Proko + Marshall Vandruff are definitely going to cover this in their upcoming perspective series.

>>3066287
You can't have multiple horizon lines in the same image, get some photos and find the horizon, objects can have different vanishing points from each other. Either 1 or 2 but of they are in the same image they are on the same horizon line. The exception is a single zenith OR nadar, above or below the horizon line. Please /ic/ youve got to be kidding.

Draw two horizon lines then draw two one point boxes. One from each.
The draw two horizon lines and draw two two point perspective boxes one on each

Notice how it looks fucking retarded?
Ok now start using one horizon line like reality and fuck off.

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>>3068348
I don't get this, if an object isn't on the ground and is tilted like the bottom drawer in pic related, the lines don't converge onto one horizon line, it seems like it has vanishing points on a different line.

>>3068395
In the example, the drawers side panels are adjacent to the dressers side panels so they should converge on the same horizon line as the dresser.

The drawer is just a "selection" of an area from a larger box which uses the same horizon line as everything else in the image.

Think of the wedge underneath the tilted drawer. If that wedge were positive space would it have a different horizon because its lines aren't parallel to the ground plane? No. Its a selection from a larger volume(box) that uses the ground planes horizon and the same plane as everything else in the image.


I'm pretty sure you'd have to be cross eyed and viewing an image from two different perspectives since the horizon is where your eyes are looking at a core fundamental level.

>>3068395
"the" horizon is just the horizon of the ground and every plane that's parallel to it

other planes have their own horizons

>>3068415
>>3068430
Thanks lads, I had a hard time wondering how planes would work if they didn't converge to "the" horizon, but now I know they have their own, it helps alot.

>>3068436
The other anon who says there can't be multiple horizons in a drawing is wrong though

There can be as many horizons as there are planes, if you only find it useful. a horizon is always defined relative to a plane, and that can be any plane, we just normally use the ground plane because that makes sense on earth.

In deep space for example the ground plane would become an irrelevant concept but there's still perspective.

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>>3068395
Inclined planes converge above or under the horizon line. The inclined drawer is basically three point perspective, while the furniture is in two point. See pic.

>>3068415
Did you have a stroke recently?

>>3068443
Ah I see, whenever I saw examples in perspective books where furniture or whatever all perfectly met at the horizon, I always said to myself: I get it and that's all very well, but what if one of those objects that was aligned to the horizon was pushed over slightly, or if something was floating in mid air tilted in a completely different direction, then what? but like you said, they would all just have their own horizon, thanks for clearing this up.

>>3068444
In that image its arbitrary. Imagine the road and the ground under it as being a selection from a cube where the cube follows standard one point perspective to the very clear horizon line in that image. That point in space is caused by that road being drawn incorrectly. Eg its narrowing and its sides are not parallel. You can make a narrowing box out of wood. And place it in one point perspective but its not the same as viewing a box that isn't narrowing.

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>>3066264
I'm not trying to argue, but how does immense knowledge of perspective come into play with simple portraits like pic related? Did Vermeer heavily consider the vanishing point and such here or did he just paint what he saw?

>>3068936
he painted what he saw with some limited stylisation, his understanding of perspective was helpful but it wasn't the main thing. Fine art really doesn't even require you to follow perspective, depending on the style. It's in representational work from imagination, especially design work, where you have to know perspective very well or your work will suck. The same can be said about many types of illustration and even a good portion of classic fine art was a mixture of referenced/life drawing and imagined things, all composited into an imaginative painting that wasn't simply painted from life. In fact they often took an entire year of work in a studio to produce a final piece.

>>3064886
no one mentions the bad alignment of the rubiks cube?

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>>3064886
Is there a trick I can use so I don't have to do this?

>>3069337
yeah

use orthographic projection

when your vp is far enough perspective kind of becomes irrelevant

>>3068348
>>3068415
kek

>>3069283
What do you mean?

>>3064995
t. only draws their OCs standing, facing the camera

>>3069264
Thanks for the reply! That was very helpful

>>3069283
That picture is meant to illustrate a problem. The picture is meant to be wrong. The next panels explains how to avoid it.

>>3069651
....Is it bad I can't see what's wrong with it.

>>3070016
Yes.

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>>3064886
i've finally decided to start attempting rooms and spaces instead of floating figures. i've got a couple of persective-based furniture/interior tutorials that i've found hopeful. i hope someone here can find them useful. :)

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>>3070023

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>>3070024

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>>3070025

>>3069651
>>3070016
The top part of the cube cuts into the rest of it.

>OP gave up.
Can anybody on /ic/ demonstrate this?

>>3070041
not OP, but i honestly think it's kind of a bad tutorial. too wordy, and the diagrams are difficult to interpret. even though the artist of the tutorial knows exactly what they're talking about, going to someone else for perspective advice might avoid the headache.

tldr; you can apply OP comic's methods while following different instructions. don't get caught up in the autism just because you can.

/ic/ officially defeated

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Can someone explain to me how Ground Planes and Station Points work? How can I make sure the height of the camera is say around 4 feet tall and 10 feet away from the subject.

>>3066423
DL please? I'd do it myself, but there's no good site that'll let me, and I'm too poor to get a physical copy.

>>3069337
what the fuck book is this

>>3070782
See >>3066423

>>3070732

I think that book is in the artbook thread.

this page is not a highlight but...

http://b-ok.org/book/1232270/c56f21

>>3070830
Thanks man

>>3070732
It's somewhere in the sticky. Look for fellowbro's collection.

https://www.slideshare.net/Recursosparaquadrinistas/david-chelsea-perspective-for-comic-book-artists

>>3071174
Oddly enough the Preface talks about how books are either not in-depth enough, or too in-depth meant for technical drawings of architecture and whatnot.

I've been trying to find these uber-technical books and I can't come across any.

Help me /ic/

>>3070782
>>3070732

https://www.mediafire.com/?i44dwzkf9j9n8#9h9nvpa71c9um

>>3064886
So any additional horizon lines have to be come from the center of vision?

>>3073129
no

>>3064886
just draw new perspective lines from the horizon line. its that easy. It often looks ugly with too many different perspectives tho

>>3073129
Yes.

>>3073129
maybe

>>3073193
>>3073213
>>3073215
Fuck me /ic/

>>3073196
what the fuck are perspective lines?

Vanishing Point explains this iirc

>>3073847
Vanishing Point is even more confusing that this book.