I know this is a meme that shitposters like to post but I was always curious: what exactly is wrong with this? It's not that bad in my opinion. The painting is decent, maybe the pose and the anatomy leaves a bit to be desired but overall, it's a decent piece.
I'm the original artist of merc_wip. It started off like over a year ago I got into an argument with some some guy and he got pretty hostile towards me after some of my comments because he didn't believe I was a professional (I can't recall all the details, but I probably came across slightly condescending or something), so he asked for proof. I posted that painting because it was one that I knew I wouldn't post online on my website or anything so even if there were repercussions for posting it then it couldn't be tracked back to me. And I wanted to just end the argument because it was pretty long at that point and I was getting tired of typing. After that either he or another anon started trying to slander me by repeatedly posting the image in other threads and acting like a total asshole. Also worth noting that the image is finished and was originally posted under another filename, but when it was reposted everywhere they called the file merc_wip, and as such it became a meme to post whenever someone asks to post your work.
If you search the archives you can find the original thread probably. Or other threads where I've answered questions about things like my feelings on it becoming a meme and such.
There's also at least one anon here that thinks I am the one that posts the image every single time and that it's not really a meme and it's just me posting it repeatedly. I've only posted it once, that very first time, but of course this dude won't believe that.
/ic/ is a dangerous place. It's filled with people that have hatred, jealousy and mental issues. So bad that they will go through great lengths to rip your work apart.
NEVER post your work on /ic/
NEVER give out your portfolio page/tumblr/anything.
NEVER give these sick people any ammo.
These are the type of people that have gone after actual pros in the industry.
As long as you don't use a trip and aren't a complete asswipe when you post your work you are pretty safe. Thousands of people visit /ic/ and post here, and there's only been a small handful of incidents.
those handfuls are one too many. Yeah, I know, the odds. But the odds are still there. Fucking lunatic, basement fucks, man.
I still wouldn't take my chances. Look what /ic/ did to this poor kid, whose pic is in OP. Posted everywhere, made fun of. Yeah, it's funny right?
I don't think it is.
I just use this place for the ref pics, books and once in a while, the tutorials that are posted here.
You do realize that any art community will have its share of crazies right? The old art forums that people idolize had lynchings and mob mentality too. I would argue that the new social media side of things can be even more dangerous because everyone is hyper-aware of how they're viewed, so shit is talked about behind people's backs more and less is in the open. Plus those sites attract and thrive off of controversy and drama and the way they are set up allow faster sharing of drama than ever before, so things can get out of hand before the truth is ever revealed.
All this stuff is human nature. No matter where you post you will take some risk for something. Just about every pro around has dealt with some degree or another of hate or drama or people stealing their work or accusations or whatever.
Grow up and build a thicker skin. You'll need it if you ever want to work in the industry or grow as a person. hiding in the shadows will smother your growth.
>After that either he or another anon started trying to slander me by repeatedly posting the image in other threads and acting like a total asshole
In other words, the butt-annihilation was so great he proceeded in shitposting using your work and the remnants of that assblasted Anon remain to this day and probably for a long time.
Even when you just post here and not being an asswipe, even going as far as helping people, some d/ic/ks will still shit on you. Either out of being a pure asshole, or out of jealousy.
That said, this thread shouldnt be up. Lets make /ic/ more of 'artwork/critique' and less 'gossip'.
>what exactly is wrong with this?
Like all popular memes, it was just posted at the good time in the good thread and it catches on for some unknown reason. Maybe it embodies some of /ic/ spirit. Maybe we all have a merc in progress hidden in our heart, waiting to get out with gun and knive and rainbows.
> My resolution for 2016 is to make my own Merc in progress.
Going kind of meh. I struggle with depression a lot which interferes with my career. So I will go months at a time without taking on new work because of it. A few months ago I left a studio job that sucked and now I'm on a break from work even though I need the money. I am working on that warhammer test though after seeing that other guy here do it. So hopefully I'll pass then get work for them soon. Not sure if I'll finish in time though because I procrastinated a lot and restarted twice already.
May I ask how old you are? And did you participate in any draw threads after your drawing became a meme or do you just lurk the whole time?
sorry for the questions, it's always interesting to meet the men behind the memes, I guess
I'm 22. And yeah, I've posted in draw threads here and there. Mostly I just give people feedback or talk about art though. To be honest most of the time if I want feedback on my art I will show it to friends through email whose opinions I trust. I don't really post here for feedback very often. If I do it's more of wanting a general opinion or to see if people prefer one version of a painting over another.
... are you the guy that was sending me emails with updates on your test?? If so sorry I didn't respond, I'm kindof the same way and it interferes with my desire to actually converse with people. So sry
Hey yeah that's me. No worries about not responding. Sometimes I'm good with emails other times I don't respond to people for days at a time. Got some emails right now like that actually. I've only got two more days before the deadline, and I haven't made that much progress since I last showed you. Probably doesn't help that I'm working on two pieces for them at once. And I will need to repaint a lot because I'm way off model at the moment.
I struggle with that too, but I do suffer from depression as well. Been in therapy over a year and it's still not really much better. Might see about medication soon. But yeah, my initial response to things if there is anxiety or whatever is to withdraw completely or ignore things. Fucking over my career and life pretty hard atm because of it.
Not that anon, but I wanted to say this:
Fuck you. It's nothing to do with stress, or whining. I've had 6-month long periods of total apathy out of fucking nowhere, I used to be productive, creative, social, smart. I didn't leave my room except to buy junk food. I shunned all human contact. I got no pleasure and fulfillment out of anything I did. I tried to fucking kill myself, and I didn't fucking deserve it. My brain neurochemistry is FUBAR, and I needed medication to even feel barely normal again.
Depression is real, and anyone who says otherwise is an ignorant fuck.
Yeah depression can be a bitch. I've permanently ruined relationships with clients because of it causing me to miss deadlines and stuff. Spent months at a time lying in bed burning through savings. My art has stagnated a lot because of lack of willpower to actually practice. Etc etc.
Hope things turn out better for you.
I'm not sure if I'm "in the industry". I've done freelance on and off for a few years and had one remote studio job. I support myself through art but I don't make much off it and live very cheaply. I'd say my jobs are about half sending emails to companies/responding to job postings, and then half stuff I've gotten through contacts. Though the contact stuff is more like they give the email address of an AD or maybe mention a certain project is looking for more artists, then at that point I still need to email and have a portfolio good enough to get the job. Also people tend to misunderstand the term "contacts". I just mean other artist friends of mine really. I don't know any important people.
I recommend you work on getting your skills as good as you can, and while doing that make friends with people around your level. With any luck you'll all be able to help each other out with things.
I know it is a bit of a taboo, but since You're kind enough to answer questions, I am going to be the guy:
What kind of money can You expect to get when freelacing? Are You doing illustrations, or concept designs? Could You give some insight into financial side of work? All credible info we have is from Ben Mauro, and he is pretty much top tier, so I don't know.
that's sad to hear, anon
I hope your depression won't totally fuck you up or ruin your career, depression's a bitch, really..
sometimes I feel like art ist the only thing I've got and that's really my main motivation..
so keep at it and good luck with your warhammer test
I've talked about it in threads here before, same with a few others like tehmeh and some people who chose to not reveal their names.
I do illustration work. I haven't really had any jobs doing design. Or it's been like the merc_wip image which required me to design the character based on the brief but in the end the final product is meant for promo or in-game purposes. So I can't help you about concept work.
For illustration the pay varies immensely. I never accept jobs under 100$, though I have worked as low as about 150. There's a lot of jobs that pay way less. They're not worth your time though. Most of my work has been low- or mid-tier, so in the range of several hundred per piece, though occasionally you'll land something much bigger (highest I did was 1500). For general reference you have low paying companies like AEG or FF which pay maybe 100-250 per piece. Then you get stuff like MtG which I believe now pays over 1k. And there's plenty in between. I've heard book covers for large publishers can pay several thousand per piece, but I have no experience in that field. Obviously there's gonna be variation there too and a small publisher or an e-book cover might only be a couple hundred.
Always try to negotiate higher pay than what they offer. If they ask you what your rate is, estimate their budget based on how big a company they are/how big the project is, then add a bit to the amount so that you have room to negotiate down a bit without getting screwed. You can work for a bit less per piece if they give you multiple pieces to do.
I don't have much studio experience. I did it remotely and logged my hours then got paid accordingly. The hourly rate was really low but exchange rates helped me.
tl;dr: the pay sucks
Oh yeah, art is the only thing I have in my life. If I went blind or something I wouldn't hesitate to kill myself. Nothing else in life really means anything. And even art isn't always enough to keep things going well.
Thank You for answering. That's helpfull even if I am not into illustration side of the industry. I am poorfag from eastern Europe, so that kind of money is not bad at all for my needs.
You wrote that You didn't do concept design, but do You recon the pay is similar/ lower/ higher for the same skill tier? Thanks!
That's amazing. Depression is surgical enough to keep you away from anything involving normal day to day suffering but yet some how not powerful enough to stop you from indulging in validation seeking activities like shitposting on 4chan. Wow, that's some depression.
Oh wait! No it isn't. That's just you being a pussy about life. That's being a grown-ass child looking for an excuse to stay some worthless narrcistic cunt, still too spoiled to face reality. There's depression and then there are manipulating cowards like you two.
Hm, hard to say. Again, it will probably vary a ton depending on the company. Some have big budgets, others don't. Working on concepts for films will pay typically more than video games. And what video game company will make a difference too. Is it a AAA company? Or a mobile games company? Or just a few guys who got some money off kickstarter?
What type of design work are you doing? 2d? 3d? Photobashing? characters? environments? colour roughs? There's a lot of variables and the pay will change based on what is required and how fast you are and how good you are.
The good news is that there are more full-time positions for concept work than illustration work. If you can land a studio job somewhere then you're set.
It's a highly competitive field, oversaturated even, but at the same time there are a lot of jobs. Certainly many people make a living off it. The fact you can live off less money because of lower cost of living in your country is an advantage for you.
Armchair psychologist here, topkek
hey, I've met you irl before
anyways just want you to know that depression is real and it sucks. But you have people supporting you, and even if you don't believe it, it doesn't matter cause your art's at a professional level already, not many people can say they've earned 1k+ at a gig, so good job!
But you need ids linked to portfolios. That's why a forum is best.
Big boy forum:
R people depressed there? Think about it.
This one is a hybrid forum where anons can post:
So.. How do we reach out to the mods? Who's in charge of this board? Why can't we [spoiler]? Why do some boards have ID's or flags, while others have no way to somewhat identify an anon?
I think names that you can lock in are the way to go. I noticed a lot of tripfags recently so some people are catching on. Its harder to talk shit when your name is attached.
>hey, I've met you irl before
Really? Was it at an event? I don't know when else we would have met. Small world. Shoot me an email if you wanna chat. I'm sometimes a bit slow at responding but like corresponding with artists around the world.
It's pretty obvious why some people don't want to share their name or art here. I do know of a few pros who visit the board though even if they just lurk. And there have been multiple pros who have revealed their names or who have recognizable art. The automatic assumption (which is mostly right) is that /ic/ is a bunch of beginner and intermediate artists, but we forget that there are a small handful of professionals. Given the state of forums and general online art communities I wouldn't be surprised if there are more lurking pros than ever before.
Art test to work for Games Workshop.
Pretty sure there's been multiple attempts with no success to bring IDs to the board. I doubt it will happen.
To me it represents people who think they are good, but actually suck at making lively paintings or have shit taste. A superficial renderwhore. A delusional "big boy" artist. A mediocre professional.
Reddit is a complete joke of a place for art, other boards even with IDs never take off (it was tried already on double chan), and forums are irrelevant now that social media has replaced it
I am going to be deadly honest:
If you look at this picture and you think it looks like shit, then I am afraid to say that you have AWFUL TASTE. This is actually a beautiful painting.
If you think that this is even remotely bad, you have no chance in doing well in this medium because you might be blind.
Just saying, I would drink a jug of piss to paint half that good.
It's better than meme% of /ic/. But I'd say it's just pretty average-tier concept art. It's good enough to get you more work (and the OP does get some) but the painting is a bit clunky to be considered truly 'beautiful', and there's zero creativity in terms of originality or concept (haha, I know, probably wasn't OPs intent, but if you wanna call something 'beautiful'..).
That's even more mysterious.
If I work for that amount I'll try to do it in under a day. But of course there's usually problems you run into in the middle of the painting and it can take longer.
It's not that good. Don't drink piss. You can paint at my level or better if you just practice a couple hours a day for a few years. That's basically what I did but then add in several periods of no art or very little art during depressions that can last months at a time.
Yeah, it's pretty mediocre. The generic part was the brief itself though, I was given a description and a sheet of images that it had to resemble, and they were the most generic things ever.
No. I like funny looking ears.
Since we're suddenly having serious discussions about /ic/ lore and things are surprisingly still under control, could I ask another question?
Would someone kindly calmly explain what the deal with Teal line guy was? And what happened to him?
(not OP btw)
He had a lot of autistic animu beginner fanboys, which would praise him as the greatest artist of all time and would defend him whenever someone tried to give him a critique, so he left desu senpai baka.
I didn't pay much attention to the drama when it happened, but I seem to recall that he was doxxed and someone figured out his personal blog, which had loli porn and stuff and then the pedo accusations followed him everywhere here until he was driven away. Not sure on the details and I don't want to accidentally say something not true, so don't take this as fact.
I dunno. Just like, generic mid-tier fantasy art? I've worked on some games you may have heard of. Nothing giant, but some known IPs. So find something like that which is sorta known but not the top, and look at the unknown artists on those projects and I'm probably around that level. Or look through the unknown names in Spectrum.
No, no, no. You're wrong.
TLG was the most helpful anon ever. He did these wonderful redlines that were, dare I say it, absolutely perfect. He never harmed anyone and just drew beautiful lolis. He was, and probably still is, the only anon truly skilled enough to teach other anons.
It wasn't until that one troll showed up and everything went to shit. Teal was chased out by this one troll who still lurks the board today. This one troll is responsible for 99% of the problems on /ic/.
TLG leaving had nothing to do with his fans defending what was right, and the only good thing to have ever happen here. They were only trying to defend Teal from one single troll. If it wasn't for that one troll TLG would still be with us today.
>I know this is a meme that shitposters like to post but I was always curious: what exactly is wrong with this? It's not that bad in my opinion. The painting is decent, maybe the pose and the anatomy leaves a bit to be desired but overall, it's a decent piece.
By their nature foced may mays almost never make sense.
It was just samefagger spamming that image everywhere he could, and the quality didnt matter by the very nature of the mouthbreethers and 13yolds who think memes are the hottest shit since sliced bread they will copy it like the retarded apes they are.
Same way people who never visited here use meme arrows outside of 4chan.
Fanboyism aside, his redlines were generally useful, he was advocating learning the fundamentals, construction, perspective, gesture, basically most of the stuff that this board seems to stand for in terms of beginner art education.
He was nice to have on this board, I 'd say.
I've been checking his tumblr periodically and some time last year he deleted it as well as his DA. There were some pretty sad posts on his wall at some point, so I wonder if it all finally got to him.
See, there's this thing called science. Science figured out that when there isn't enough serotonin produced by the brain, then the "feel good" natural chemicals in our body can't make us feel good.
When you have depression, it's not your fault. It's your brains fault. Luckily, medicine exists.
Been fighting this battle for 10 years. Depression helps my art.
Keep sailing, anon.
You see there is this thing called nature and nature says that depression is natural (which science agrees with). What isn't natural are the kiddies who exaggerate thier depression to manipulate others. Depression is overly diagnosised and brats often take advantage of the scare that comes with depression to coerce others into alleviating the said brat's stress. It's weaked willed punks like you who rather lie to the world than face up to it, the reason depression is sooooo serious with first world brats.
I also have a board on that site, deluded as I was into thinking that the site was going to "take off" for some reason.
Naturally it's like /ic/ except there's only a handful of people. We do have a regular who's atelier-trained though, seems like a cool guy-pretty helpful (here's something he posted today).
I somehow came across Teal's board once, I think he was astro-turfing it on /co/ and I recognized his work immediately. His board's name is weird; not sure how he came up with it.
When the anime/stylization threads came up, he kindly popped in and out, redlining my and other peoples' crappy work, and providing a TON of useful information that was applicable to other anons. He never gave people shit for their content, and just focused on fundamentals, taking the time to redraw whole figures.
I remember there being some drama when some anon leaked TLG's personal tumblr and people were arguing about who he was... I remember reading someone saying he lived in Japan with an animator -- but nothing was ever confirmed, of course. Turns out TLG was depressed (rumour had it, a transgender issue?) and he had left a long sad letter on his tumblr before removing all of his work.
TLG was so helpful to me. He was incredibly kind and constructive -- at least, on /ic/, and offered people in the thread solutions to common anime-related problems at a time where they were shunned for even existing.
A compilation of TLG's redlines:
I realized a lot of redlines are missing in that imgur album...
If anybody has a bigger collection, please share!
TLG wasn't a god or the greatest artist on /ic/... Just a helpful person.
Simon started appearing on /co/ draw threads along with chonghi. They were banned a few times for posting NSFW stuff. (Remember the dolphin boy rape pic?) Some mods were freaked out by the CP'ness of thier drawings and tried to push them out.
Before all that, Simon submited to a group called Temple of the Snake. That's where he met a so-called animator at an expo. The relationship didn't last because Simon couldn't keep up with the work schedule. He was always late and bit of a slob.
Simon is a shut-in and has health issues. (Not to mention he had a run-in with the law after he was caught videotaping minors in public.) He has a long history of failed projects: dojinshi, 2chan, ustream, pixiv, tumblr, patreon, etc. He starts strong and then quickly buckles under pressure. He doesnt like the spotlight I quess.
The long poem he posted on his tumblr was in reaction to a death in the family. He comes from a family with cancer and diabetes. It was most likely one his parents who died. Maybe his father?
Simon doesn't know a lot about art, but he can draw very well and can preach off that. Niether did /ic/ know a lot about art when Teal (aka Simon) appeared, he was a godsend to them. But he was also a creeper and that upset a lot of other anons.
Simon would pick poor quality drawings to redline. He always picked ones that had cliche poses and very little atmosphere. Stuff he could easily do, stuff he had enough resources to go by with. He would write notes in these redlines in teal, thus his name: Teal.
All his redlines were pretty much the same. He would repeat back what everybody was saying. And he would change the drawing a bit to press a personal point.
Shit hit the fan when he was called out on a few things like his depiction of anatomy, the CP'ness in his drawings, his aloofness, that sameface syndrome, etc. Threads got derailed, anons got butthurt, and he was never seen again on /ic/. (except by fanbois x-posting his stuff)
I stuck up for him in the /co/ draw thread once. I didn't realize why people were giving him so much shit all of a sudden. I even drew a little girl saying something encouraging to him like haters gonna hate or some shit. I can't fucking believe I didn't realize what the deal was, but I'd never encountered the idea of cp ever. I knew vaguely that kids shouldn't talk to strangers but nothing beyond that occurred to me. I feel so fucking stupid, but without knowing that, he just seemed like a nice guy who sometimes helped people draw better and sometimes drew what I thought were chibi characters. Sometimes he drew normal characters and I think that added to my confusion but I should've known better. Even though he was nice I would've stayed out of it rather than unknowingly support that.
>merc_wip is actually a finished piece
Everything I know is a lie.
I never said he wasn't good, or that he wasn't helpful.
But he did have all the animu beginners worshiping him, which I think was the reason he got so much hate. Kind of like justin bieber, the kid can sing, but when you have all the 12 yr olds in the world sucking your cock, you are bound to get some haters.
There is no proof, the whole story was made up from rumors of hateful superstitious housewives who try to save lives of poor innocent cartoon character children. That is how vapid and shallow normalfags are, why are you surprised?
Ladies and Gentlemen I present you one of the three amigos of TDF (Teal Defense Force). Teal had these three latin/hispanic fans that went bat-shit crazy anywhere on /ic/ that was criticizing Teal. They would derail mulitple threads, make huge campaigns about trolls, post questionable material to get threads deleted, etc. I have no idea why they were that vigilante.
Most anons who hated Teal did so out of spite because of how annoying the Amigos behaved. Most would had never heard of Teal if it wasn't for those three. They practically ruined the entire /ic/ board and gave weeaboos an even worst rep, if you can believe that's possible.
autism, retarded or stupid hell anything regarding not being smartest guy in the row doesnt mean anything anymore coz its a 9gag tier meme now :^)
you could try talking to him honey instead of being a tiny little online bully
If anything this is a testament to how fucking insidious and nasty people can get if you get popular enough that they start obsessing over every facet of your existence, and that you should have the least amount of your life and personal information as possible tied up in your work that you post online.
For another example, just look at donro/monglor
>drawing cartoon girls now makes you an evil hateful pedo monster out to hurt and do terrible things like drawing cute girls doing cute things.
The atrocity, ban all assault drawings.
Temple of the Snake was trading since the late 80's. Simon popped up around the 90's. Assuming he was at the legal age to trade adult comics at expos I would guess he is probably in his 40's by now.
This argument doesn't work and it never will. Tv shows and movies are no more real than comics and cartoons yet they're all still subject to rating systems and censorship. It's never about who's really in danger in the making of a fictional product, it's the thoughts and feelings the product invokes or could potentially invoke in the audience that matters when deciding how appropriate the product is for pubic viewing. Don't think you get any exception.
he's not selling his art nor is he trying to show it to the world either, only his group of online friends. This is a far cry from business driven entertainment industry. If you don't like it, don't look at it, it's not on your fucking TV. I can't believe the lengths you go to ruin someone's already pathetic life. Imagine you really liked someone or something but could never get it because rules and all that. You would probably go crazy because you are a spoiled sheltered princess. Probably repressed too, which is why you're so angry and reaching for straws.
Why are we even bringing this up still it has been almost two years since we last saw him legitimately provide a redline and critique.
For as wide a spread that projection had, you still managed to sidestep the point. You can't make the argument that your cp should be exempt from censorship laws because it "isn't real" when literally no other form of entertainment is exempt, real or not. Nothing you said negates that, there's nothing you can say that will. I don't care about the rest.
Notice how the thread is being derailed with a CP debate? This was one of TDF's classic techniques. It didnt always work, but when it did it made one hell of a dog pile of a thread.
There will always be good and bad people here. Nothing can change that but what can be change is learning how to communicate with each other, and having the patience that comes with that long process
There already is. Journalists' articles, political cartoons, commercials, even tweets and blog posts get pulled or banned all the time because they offend or might be found offensive. I'm not going to debate whether that's right or wrong, I'm just saying it applies to everyone and "it's just a drawing" is a less than flimsy argument for why it shouldn't apply to you when it hasn't saved anyone else's ass.
>There will always be good and bad people here.
Love this desu.
What makes pedos bad? They can't help it. They didn't choose to like children. Like I don't understand. Imagine how you would feel if everyone hated you for liking women? People are so ignorant. Just because he is sexually attracted to kids doesn't mean he abuses kids. He doesn't get urges to rape children. Pedophiles are so misunderstood thanks to the media. Because the only pedophiles represented in the media are rapists. In fact, in most child abuse cases the person responsible isn't a pedophile. Like, idgi. You are attracted to females right? How often do you get the urge to rape a woman? Is it hard to resist not raping women everyday? Is that what you think about all day? Raping women? Abusing women? Probably not. What makes you think the average pedo is any different? Nothing changes, just the attraction.
People with your mentality (kill all pedos, they are the worst scum etc) are a huge problem. This isn't the answer. You are actually endangering children by having that mentality. If there wasn't that much hate against pedos, and instead, society tried to help them, it would be so much better. Where can a pedo seek help right now? Nowhere, literally nowhere. You can't tell anyone you are a pedo because you will literally be cast off from society.
>People with your mentality (kill all pedos, they are the worst scum etc)
More projection. I never said anything about pedophiles, all I said was you can't expect drawn cp not to be subject to rating, censorship, or any laws just because it's drawings, because all other drawings and forms of fictional entertainment are subject to the same legal scrutiny. You are not special. Just because you try to keep it hidden doesn't mean anything. People who try to sell totally clean sfw art under the table are still going to get taxed if the IRS finds out. People who grow weed in their backyard are still going to get arrested if they're found out. So stop going around crying about how persecuted you are because you have no basis for why you should be above the laws everyone else has to abide.