Not looking for "the redpill" about Christianity. I'm just curious if there is any actual historical cases of a Satanic murder cult or a community of actual Satan worshipers? Did the pagans actually worship Lucifer? or just some goat deity?
I think Satanism began as a mere fiction born out of Christian hysteria, but then a few rebellious or malcontent souls adopted the mantel for themselves, knowing the reaction it would cause.
Of course pagans didn't worship Lucifer, considering Lucifer is a Christian figure.
This guy would like to have a word with you
>Did the pagans actually worship Lucifer? or just some goat deity?
First of all, in many Pagan European pantheon and mythology you find that Horned goats (and even other horned animals) are related to Fertility.
Scandinavians/Nordic people had traditions of Yule Goat, which represented underlying fertility in the darkest time of winter. The sun reborns in the North and darkness starts to subside after winter solstice in December.
The fact that the Horned goat figure later came to symbolize the Devil is more related to the Papal inquisition of the Templars, who were accused of worshipping the figure of Baphomet.
Were the actual "Pagan Rites" something to do with Devil worship? Probably not, but atleast some of the traditional Nordic fests connected to Winter and Summer solistice were drinking fests where even orgies took place.
The Romans held similar beliefs/rites with Bacchus Dionysus who can be indentified with the Greek horned God Pan.
>Bacchus was not originally Roman at all but was rather a Latinized form of the Greek Dionysus, god of wine and intoxication, of wild, uncultivated nature, of ritual madness and ecstasy, and of “otherness,”impersonation, and drama. In Greek art Dionysus is often portrayed as an older male with long black hair and beard, wearing animal skins and wreathed with ivy, carrying a sacred thyrsus, a long staff topped with grapes or a pine cone. The worship of Dionysus, involving ecstatic dancing, appealed particularly to women; when Bacchic festivals, called Bacchanalia, were imported into Rome the authorities strongly disapproved. In 186 BCE, the Senate outlawed Bacchic cults and apparently succeeded in suppressing the wilder forms of this worship, although more “domesticated” versions of the cult survived and Bacchic themes were very popular in Roman art, which emphasized Bacchus as a youthful god of wine and the good life.
This Roman bronze figurine, dating from the second century CE, has silver encrusted eyes. Bacchus is shown in typical Roman fashion, as a beardless, rather effeminate youth; he wears a crown of leaves and flowers. He is accompanied by the half-goat, half-human god Pan, patron of shepherds and flocks, whom the Romans identified with Faunus, a native Italian god of the wild forests. In this statuette, Pan offers Bacchus a bunch of grapes.
I really hate this ''le satanists are le just misundestood!! christians need to stop being mad lol xD'' meme, we even had a serial killer who claimed he killed people because satan told him to
Obviously you can justify horrendous shit when you're actively trying to get into hell
Bacchus is an archetype for a deranged individual who mindlessly consumes food and intakes a means of intoxication such as marijuana or alcohol at more or less the same rate. If you look at the hindu pantheon specifically the story of Bakasura, you will find that he was regarded as an insatiable monster that would consume and consume and never stop, a mindless void of sensation.
After you play SMITE for a while it kindles a fire to know what these myths are all about.
yes OP pagans were actualy satanists in disguise, and satanists vere really a problem, they caused floods and draughts and all sorts of bad weather, crop failures, pests, diseases etc etc.. it took generations of burning people to fix all the problems they caused, but they still havent been weeded out, and now they own disney, wich means they now own star wars too, its just horrifying
The talmudic branch of Judaism is considered satanic by a lot of christian scholars as well as some Jews and Messianic Jews. They actually beleive an old rabbi would return from the dead and they await a messiah who would literally be the anti-christ.
Bacchus or Dionysos is an archetype of the dieing-resurrecting god, and thus is closely related to agriculture, especially connected to the introduction of grapes and its product wine. Also in the myths he is connected to altered states of consciosness through wine and sex and is close to the feral nature of man. Because of his cult was part of the eleusian mysteries when he was introduced to rome there was a senate inspection of whether his cult endulges in orgies or not and they found that they are just a simple mystery cult dealimg with agricultural symbolism.
Figure it out yourself - if Satan wanted to win souls would he make his religious and philosophical schools seem evil and soul destroying from outside? Of course not - look at Hinduism.
Look at Christian cults, people go happy there - oh we pray to Jesus, it's fine it says in the gospels - but their leaders indoctrinate them, misinterpret the scriptures - so in the end even if the members of that cult would appear to be nice persons from outside - on spiritual level their souls are lost.
ORTHODOX CHURCH IT'S NOT JUST CHURCH - THE BUILDING YOU VISIT... it's an independent institute from state, that educates, helps and support society - is the holy hand of God.
Explicit satanism is a relatively modern phenomenon. The identification of pagan and crypto-pagan cults with satanic practices is older, although that wasn't often the official opinion of the church. The lower classes were eager to believe in witchcraft and stuff like that but the church saw all that as superstition.
In this post I won't mention mass hysteria modern cult of Satanism that is cringeworthy.
A lot of people worship the Semitic Satan under many different names. Based on my knowledge about various religions, I have no doubt that the Peacock Angel is in fact that Satan, I don't know why Yazidis try to avoid this. In the spiritual context it doesn't mean it is necessarily bad or anti-Christian at all, they have elaborate belief about why is he to be worshipped and its understandable branch of (pre)Semitic (Mesopothamian) religion that developed at some point long before Christianity and medieval image of Satan. They have to deny it because they've been persecuted over the centuries, but it literally is the same story from the same source. Even though they are monotheistic and do believe in creator God, their whole belief system and worship revolves around the fallen angel and the ruler of the world, Melek ("angel") Tawuse, proud peacock, whose destiny of fall and repentence they seem to share as beings fallen from the God's grace.
All religions deal with very very old concepts that were developed once people were either smarter, closer to the truth or just persistant in their beliefs. The general idea is that fall from Eden/God's grace once humans recognized free will and knowledge given by the source other than God. With that force, strong duality befalls mankind, that of recognition of good and evil and nothing inherently good or bad by itself.
Yazidis are not the only ancient religion or a cult following this belief, there is one other a lot more ancient and larger in number and far more spiritual that pays their respects to Satan himself, strongly believing in his role as the ruler of this world and liberator from God's beneficial dictatorship. Without Satan, there wouldn't be science, reason, logic, philosophy, music - but neither greed, war, pride, suffering and evil.
Daily reminder that Satan resides among us
Why would pagans worship a being they didn't believe in? Is it even possible to worship something whose existance you don't believe in?
In regard to people who hold christian beliefs and thus consider satan as a real entity why would they even consider worshipping a being lesser than Yahweh? Particularly one that is either the servant of Yahweh or a failed rebel leader turned trickster?
Forgot to add that if you go by satan the rebel then you most also acknowledge that he is unbelievably stupid as he started a rebellion against the allmighty knowing full well that it would fail and that he, and his followers would be punished accordingly.
Nice example anon. Now you have tasked us with listing all of the murderers who said they were inspired or instructed by the Christian or Jewish God.
It's a much longer list but I'll work on it today.
You're an idiot. David Berkowitz also claimed that his neighbor's dog told him to kill people so I think that (plus being a convicted mass murderer) brings his credibility into question
Actually I can't think of one serial killer who killed people because he said Jesus told him to
>hurr christianity waz bad too so stop being mean to satanists : (
the only possible reason to worship satan is if you want to do bad things, you're still subscribing to christian theology if you do since he only exists in the christian universe and is defined as being evil.
Most ''satanists'' are infantile, abusive and explicitely just want to piss people off because it gives them a rush
>I can't think of one serial killer who killed people because he said Jesus told him to
not him but Mullin killed people because he thought it stopped earthquakes, and being anti-abortion doesn't mean he's doing it literally because he thinks god is telling him to. Son of Sam thought that the devil was literally speaking to him telling him to kill people
You subscribe to the Christian view of satanists though. It is only because of Christianity that you believe devil worship to be so ridiculous. Most Satan worship is a desire to emulate him, you may think this to be edgy, but this is because of Christianity.
I think it's more because:
A. By definition Satan is both infantile and evil, his only explicit goal is to harm all humans, as defined by the Bible, he doesn't exist and is not defined outwith this context. Making a conscious decision to worship im shows a good degree of ridiculousness
yes emulating him is also ridiculous, if not even moreso, I don't want to emulate a guy who sits around thinking of ways he can harm me because he has personal beef with a God I don't even acknowlege
B. Most of the time when you hear about 'Satanism' it's within the context of child abuse and no amount of flat-out denial will take that away.
Not a serial killer.
Mormons don't count.
>James Charles Kopp
Not a serial killer, just cause you hate abortion peddlers doesn't mean you think Jesus is personally telling you to kill people or even that you're a Christian.
>The talmudic branch of Judaism is considered satanic by a lot of christian scholars as well as some Jews and Messianic Jews.
As well it fucking should. Their malice toward everyone who isn't a Jew is profound. In fact, they make the Nazis look like amateurs regarding its master race ideology.
A lot of, especially protestant, Christians are operating under the false assumption that all Jews follow is the Old Testament, and these guys actually go to Israel to be good shabbos goyim.
For Christians (Catholics in particular), literally every spiritual power that doesn't originate with God (ie. saints, angels, etc.) is demonic in origin.
He probably killed kids but I'm sure the satan nonsense was just tortured out of him. They didn't really have a concept of psychopathy/serial killers back then so these kinds of acts were attributed to "evil" or "satanism."
>Figure it out yourself - if Satan wanted to win souls would he make his religious and philosophical schools seem evil and soul destroying from outside? Of course not - look at Hinduism.
So you're saying God lets Satan trick people into Hell? So much for free will, much less that whole "omnibenevolent" shit then.
>So you're saying God lets Satan trick people into Hell? So much for free will
that is sort of what is explicitely stated in the bible, we still have free will as we can choose between sin and God
Satan originally meant "enemy" and appeared to be as some kind of accuser. He would try to lead men astray from God to prove them. You know the story of Hiob, where Satan speaks to God and says Hiob wouldn't be such a pious man if he hadn't all this great things? This was his job.
The rest of your post is retarded.
>"give me free will!"
>"but without consequences!"
Wow Jeff Rense. There's a name I haven't seen in a long time. Looks like it's time for me to protect my family against the bioaccumulative effects of Fukushima radiation >B^)
Catholics as well, senpai.
They hold that making the motions towards invoking spiritual energies, regardless of intent, is essentially inviting a demon into your life. They just don't bang that drum very much because it would probably entail an inquisition in Latin America.
>But it's not free if Satan-- a super-intelligent and malevolent supernatural being-- is actively misleading people into sin.
>It's not your fault if you get fat; food is just too delicious
Yes I know Satan's role in Judaism, but that's not how he is understood in Christianity. And you yourself said Satan tricks people into worshipping him, citing Hinduism. Why does God allow him to do this?
Yeah, except food doesn't actively trick me into thinking it's healthy while actually being terrible for me. And being fat is totally on the same order of business as losing your immortal soul. Aside from that, great analogy.
>Yeah, except food doesn't actively trick me into thinking it's healthy while actually being terrible for me.
Yeah, it actually does. Why do you think humans the world over are so fond of calorie-rich, fatty, sugary foods?
>And you yourself said Satan tricks people into worshipping him
No I didn't.
No I didn't. You seem to confuse me with some other anon.
>Why does God allow him to do this?
Because God of the OT can be an asshole, but there is some logic behind this. It's very easy to be virtuous if there is nothing tempting. Or nobody tempting you. It's nothing but a test.
Because they're delicious, not because they're healthy. No-one eats a cream cake because they think it's healthy.
Meanwhile a billion Hindus offer prayers to Brahman and you're saying it's because Satan tricked them? How in any sense o the word is that fair?
>It's nothing but a test.
A test he KNOWS you will succeed or fail before you do it. Why do some people, with weak moral character, lives lives free from temptation and die in grace while other men, no weaker, are exposed to countless temptations and fall? Remember, God KNOWS whether or not the two men will pass his "tests" before he sets them. And the outcome is eternal pain vs eternal bliss.Isn't this just sadism on God's part? He creates us, knowing we are weak, having MADE us weak, then sets us "tests" that he KNOWS we will fail, and then punishes us with eternal suffering.
>Because they're delicious, not because they're healthy. No-one eats a cream cake because they think it's healthy.
Your body thinks they're healthy, which was my point. As an evolutionary strategy, people are wired to crave calories - especially fat and sugar.
>Meanwhile a billion Hindus offer prayers to Brahman and you're saying it's because Satan tricked them?
I'm not a Christian senpai. But yeah, Christians believe that.
>How in any sense o the word is that fair?
It's not, just like the rest of reality.
I don't think you understand. He KNOWS. He doesn't guess, he doesn't fortell, he doesn't predict, he KNOWS. In fact, he has known since before he even created the Universe. Who is he trying to impress with this supposed "test"? Himself? The poor, hapless sinner, created AS a sinner, in order that he can suffer in life and burn in the hereafter? I'm sure he'll take solace in knowing he was judged so fairly oh wait "no solace in Hell" I guess he won't.
What? He created us, he created everything else, he knew beforehand that circumstances and choices would lead some people to Hell and others to Heaven. And he did it anyway. He's either an absolute madman, or something has got confused in the transmission of his will. There is no possible way an all-loving God could create a Hell, or would wish for one. The whole idea was invented by the Church to terrorise Joe Sixpack into coughing up his tithes and into leaving wealth in his will to the Church that has spent his whole life robbing him.
No, I don't think you understand. He knows, but if it doesn't happen, he has nothing to judge you for. I mean how do you understand this:
>God: "You sinned."
>a guy: "No I didn't."
>God: "But you will."
>a guy: "When?"
>God: "In two thousand years, you aren't actually born yet, but burn in hell, sinner."
>He knows, but if it doesn't happen, he has nothing to judge you for.
Why does he need to judge us? To justify punishing us to...? Who is he trying to impress? The sinner never had a hope of salvation, God created him knowing he would burn. But because he waits until we die to throw us in the lake of fire, this is somehow fair judgement? As if eternal suffering for finite sin is proportionate in any sense. It's all nonsense, no god who is merely benign would allow such a thing, much less one who is omnibenevolent.
>Because our actions have consequences.
Only in a purely causal sense. And only to temporal beings such as ourselves. God is omnipresent and omniscient, the future is the same as the past to him. He created us knowing we would fall, why would he judge or punish us or being what he made us?
>why would he judge or punish us or being what he made us?
Now we reached a point I can't answer. As you said it's clear that we have free will, and he is omnipresent and omniscient. Which should mean that he made several human beings that will sin so he can judge them. Why? Ask your local theologian.
The LaVey Satanists were pitied for folly by the Vatican, rather than condemned for evil. Mainly because they quite accurately worked out that LaVey was an edgelord showbiz grifter who was offering Ayn Rand with cosplay.
When looking for LE DARQ ARTS it's important to understand the main types of people/groups encountered.
1. Psychopaths celebrating evil. The satanism just adds to the "ooh scawwy ebil" of their undoubtedly atrocious acts. One guy in court said he hoped the evidence traumatised the jury because his aim was to scar and destroy as many souls as he could. Very dangerous, as an eroded sense of self fails to deal with good and evil, deciding to throw it all to the floor and just be as toxic and corrosive as possible, in the vain hope of realisation. That is, making itself real.
2. Cosplay faggots, hedonists and attention whores. The Satanism is all entry level, with the aim of loosening up the newbies and getting them into the swing of basically just self-indulgence and the odd orgy. Still dangerous as it attracts egotists and narcissists who can either hurt people or get hurt by stepping on toes. Also the drugs aspect can lead to contact with underwolrd types that can turn your whole life rotten black by touch alone.
3. Actual, this-is-serious-mom Satanists. Usually 20 something crew of fringe dwellers or social failures, usually led by a charismatic man or couple who may be richer. Highly unstable, a group that can't even enjoy a bonfire without the gathering of wood becoming some kind of ritual. Group will persist as a collection of wraiths around a central core of power tripping dingbats. Not often educated or deeply involved with the occult in any way, it's all about the bossing of others. Group dissolves immediately if someone is hurt, or the central core loses the plot and devolves into something more like 1.
4. Educated people whose understanding is that the Universe and the Self are interchangeable, usually quiet, clever, warm people.
>Son of Sam thought that the devil was literally speaking to him telling him to kill people
That sentence is too easy to read. Son of Sam apparently heard dogs howling, for weeks on end. Nobody else could hear it, and it was all the time. That could really mess you up but then within the howling he started to hear growling and grunting. Over days this turned into voices, slowly the voices began to talk to him and tell him the only way to avoid this sound was to follow orders. Things went downhill form there.
The misery that afflicts crazed people as their self dissolves is real. Not excusing their horrible crimes, but i understand the extremes they experience and try to be thankful every day. A little chemical imbalance, a bit of neglect and any of us could be in that very real hell.
Satan does not control you he's only able to give suggestions.
Use your free will to accept the temptation of ignore it, you also have the name of Christ which is the strongest weapon in the universe against devils.
>I'm less christian than satanists, satanists believe in christian dieties, I don't
This post requires that you cut some eyeholes in your Fedora, since it seems to have swallowed your head.
Brahman the Creator sleeps at the end of his day and dreams the Universe. At the start of the dream is the golden Age, where people live thousands of years, then less and less as time goes on. Then there's the Silver age, people live hundreds of years and remember the excellence of the Golden Age. Now is the Iron Age, which started as people living 100 years but lifespans get shorter, the old ages and their values are forgotten, people are rewarded now for lying, telling the truth gets you beaten and banished.
At the end of the Iron Age, Brahman turns into Shiva and destroys the Universe, then wakes up and goes about his day. The cycle is repeated endlessly.
Brahman the Creator, Vishnu the Preserver, Shiva the Destroyer.
Bearded Man, Beneficent Mother, Younger Dynamo.
Man, Woman, Eunuch.
God, Mary, Jesus.
Jesus brought Buddha Consciousness back from India, read him as an avatar of Shiva, come to "...set brother against brother and father against son." A corrosive force in relation to the old order.
Oh, roleplaying, ok.
>Did the pagans actually worship Lucifer? or just some goat deity?
>According to the Greek historian Plutarch (in De defectu oraculorum, "The Obsolescence of Oracles"), Pan is the only Greek god (other than Asclepius) who actually dies. During the reign of Tiberius (A.D. 14–37), the news of Pan's death came to one Thamus, a sailor on his way to Italy by way of the island of Paxi. A divine voice hailed him across the salt water, "Thamus, are you there? When you reach Palodes, take care to proclaim that the great god Pan is dead." Which Thamus did, and the news was greeted from shore with groans and laments.
>They hold that making the motions towards invoking spiritual energies, regardless of intent, is essentially inviting a demon into your life. They just don't bang that drum very much because it would probably entail an inquisition in Latin America.
Never heard the drum being banged at all, and if the claim of D&D being demonic is not being pushed, then you can't accuse Catholics of believing it because presumably some Catholic priests would have made such a claim a few centuries ago.
Never met a satanist, but I am fairly sure that there was/is at least one satanic cult that goes
>Satan gave us the fruit of knowledge
>knowledge is good
>God wanted us as ignorant sheep
>thus God is evil
and was supposedly more about occultist and alchemy "research" than sacrificing people.
Yes. I have been to a "mass" and it was pretty lame, more boring than most Christian services I've been to. Even Catholic services have (as a rule) a well learned instructor/orator.
I'm an atheist but I'll attend any religious gathering just by virtue of how interested I am in mythology in general. Of the many I've intended, the Satanic mass was easily the most devoid of substance - just atheists who want both an affirmation of their narcissism and something shocking to tweet about.
D&D is not supernatural. It's a table top game with a rulebook where active human participants control everything. It's not a Ouiji board where part of the game is to give up control of an aspect to a "spirit" or whatever the fuck. D&D is a game about imagination and does not pretend to be anything else. It's as demonic as The Lord of the Rings I guess.
Maybe if you are roleplaying as a demon worshipper in the game, I could see that as demonic. Still not supernatural; satan won't favor you on your dice rolls, in any case.
>Player controls the actions of a character involved with "magic" - spells, magic items, praying to deities, etc.
>"Magic" doesn't come from God and therefore is demonic
>By placing oneself in the character's shoes, the player is inviting demonic forces into their life by proxy
It's pretty straightforward, albeit fucking insane.
Laveyic (?) Satanism is just that. A secular reaction to Christianity and it's teachings and the hypocrisy of the church .it tells you that you are law unto yourself and should act as you please.or something of the sort .
I think they're mostly edgelord atheists that don't believe in a god but don't seem to me making enough of a fuss by just saying they're atheists.so they choose that Satanism instead