For free will to exist you need a soul. Otherwise, you are a slave to your biology and circumstance.
Causality doesn't exist.
Actually, I'm not all that committed to that position, I just figured I'd get it out there because I know it will come up. Our will being directed by causal forces doesn't make it not our will; we still reason and make judgements, they're just not spontaneous.
Well, if you were going to make the claim, even from a Devil's Advocate point of view, at least you could try and defend it.
I don't see how free will could exist even with a soul and you tricked me into this thread. Now my feelings are hurt.
That isn't really how evolution works.
It's as free as anything in this world can be. Even the notion of freewill is itself a deterministic factor that drives people. Free will is also not something that's ever been sufficiently defined, and the question only actually matters if you're religious.
Being a slave to what the mechanics of a soul would make me want to do is just as bad as being a slave to what the mechanics of a brain would make me want to do.
You've moved the problem one step back, and into a place where we can't even imagine a way to investigate it. We can at least look at a brain and compare it's state to the reports given by the subject, and find out more about the question that way.
Oh, you're saying that free will PROVES the soul?
Yes, only if you are inclined to believe in free will. I do not, however, think free will exists.
So my postulation is to show you all, I assume, mostly, who do not agree there is a soul that free will doesn't exist.
I don't see any connection between the two at all.
Either the mechanics of a soul are supposed to be driving me, depriving me of true free will; or it's the mechanics of a brain that is supposed to be driving, depriving me of true free will.
Free will is what self-aware systems are, it's what they do. You imagine futures and decide which is preferable, you try to predict your own behavior. That's free will.
But you trying to predict the future and behavior is manifested completely by your brain which you have absolutely no control over. Your brain is independently deciding your choices for you. That's why the soul is necessary to influence your brain.
Your soul is the true you. It's controlling the mechanical representation of yourself.
You must understand that I don't believe in a soul or free will. I'm saying that the soul is necessary for free will.
>the true you
You're saying the true you would have free will, but only a soul could be the true you, and souls don't exist?
The brain is the true you, so that is the part with free will.
The soul would be an entity that is in an ethereal realm uninfluenced by anything and would have always existed. A brain is strictly biochemical and therefore influenced by a myriad of things that might be intrinsic to your corporeal essence but it does not behave intentionally, but rather, spontaneously.
Then describe how an intentional act might be taken, and how that is not free will.
Because you've defined it as the part that isn't a cog.
How do you know the soul isn't full of cogs?
How do you know it isn't cogs all the way down?
And if it was, why would that mean there is no free will?
There is nothing to discuss, scientifically speaking there is no evidence to suggest souls exist, many studies have been done in order to provide evidence for but at this time non exist or the very studies themselves provide counter-evidence. Therefore this discussion is pointless until you can debunk the biology and experience argument with objectionable evidence
How can it be without intention when deciding on a future is intention? We never intended to create ourselves as beings of intention, but we have intentions know that we exist.
And we can go further with intention than that, humans can even decide to what to want, beyond deciding how to get what they want. And we can decide what to want to want to want. And so on. That is the mysterious part of free will for me, the point where I can no longer follow it.
Free will only exists from our perspective.
Even probabilistic events- what we might be able to call the Universe's "free will," are only probabilistic from a four-dimensional perspective. Go one dimension higher and those events become set in metaphorical stone.
That's actually sort of a bad way to say it, edging into pseudoscience. Instead, consider the nature of matter and the behavior of massless particles. Massless particles, because they "travel" at the speed of light, travel no distance and experience no time. They are, from a light-speed perspective, instantaneous transfers of energy between massive particles. However, even massive particles are, at the most elementary level, composed of the interactions of massless particles. It then follows that the entirety of the Universe, from a light-speed perspective, experiences no time and occupies no space. The whole history and future of the Universe "happens" at once, and all those events are part of the unchanging internal causal structure of a point of energy.
It is very weak assumption. You can argues against it at least from three reasons.
1. Why it needs to be a soul and not say for example inherit randomness of the world?
2. Why soul is suddenly not a subject for some spiritual laws and their circumstances?
3. If your decisions aren't based on who are you, on your biology and your circumstances then something else decides everything for you. You need to be slave to yourself to not be slave for others.