The place where everyone fucks up with psychedelics is when you start looking to them as the end result instead of as tools to shake you out of your comfort zone and make you reexamine old ground. When you start analyzing them in and of themselves, they are as so many people believe, "a crock of shit". This is also why their biggest advocates are so annoying, and most of the time they're wrong.
Think of it this way: Neil Armstrong was famously quoted for saying, "It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small." Now, obviously this is an experience he had of how anyone can blot out the moon and make themselves feel big, and when he got up there he did the same to the earth and felt the gravity of his accomplishment and a re-framing of how we are all so interconnected and yet we don't act that way. Now imagine a bunch of people going up to the moon in 200 years and going DUDE THUMBS LMAO
You missed the entire point you dumb fucks.
He didn't need to keep going up there and blotting out the earth for kicks. It was an insight he took with him for the rest of his life. Cultures that partake in psychedelics normally have good rules that outline how to maximize functionality out of them, such as >do them rarely >approach them respectfully >follow a ritual or tradition that will help you put into context what you're feeling, seeing and experiencing.
>>666263 Some people might say that the last point isn't very 'psychedelic' because the whole point is to remove yourself and your life from context so you can try to examine it objectively, or at the very least differently. Psychedelics will do this perfectly well on their own however, and I don't see why support systems are bad when you have people in western countries using them like any other drug and getting lost, feeling marginalized and crazy, and (most importantly) not bringing back any insights that might be useful for society.
I don't understand the question. Psychedelics are/were used by many cultures for religious and spiritual ceremonies. It's pretty well documented that shamans in many cultures would (and still do) trip hard on various substances. There's been some interesting research done on the subject of religious connections with psychedelics. John Hopkins has been polling psychedelic users for information about religious experiences while under the influence. There's also the Good Friday experiment where people while religious beliefs were dosed with mushrooms and made to listen to a sermon. Many of the subjects reported that it was the most spiritually significant event of their lives.
>>664889 this it's not controversal at all to think that each religion has had its force, either negatively or positively on the other through war, conquest, and culture (arts) To say drugs didn't influence each and every religion is like saying not a single christian has ever taken any wisdom from a tibetan, or that none of the ancient greeks who influenced christianity have ever listened to egyptians, who were pioneers in phylosophy, spirituality, and many scopes we'd modernly call science.
Does that mean king James was tripping when he wrote the holy bible? Did Moses hit too much dank kush? I don't know.
>>667043 >>667142 That Iboga stuff used by the Bwiti is supposed to be fucking insane. Apparently it can put people in a hallucinogenic dream state for hours and hours on end. Imagine how mindblowing it would be if you were the first guy to discover that thousands of years ago. You'd think that the gods had just reached down and touched your mind.
Apparently most towns that had big witch hunting periods had residue of psychedelic mushrooms at the bottom their drinking wells, so in that case psychedelics did play a role in religious... Persecution
>>664815 The psychedelic experience is a doorway which leads to a hallway which leads to only what you want to find within yourself.
In other terms, a drug is nothing but a high-yield (fast but not perfect) technique to reach partly what your reason and heart cannot achieve fully in your opinion. If anything, it is a total lack of confidence in your reason and in your abilities to philosophy to be at ease with life; ease which remains unlikely, given that the choice of doing these drugs with the goal of opening your awareness and opening your mind is already a sign of close-mindedness and poor ability to reflect.
>I found myself engulfed in infinite blue. [Later I referred to it as ‘the blue place’.] There were beings there. I did not see them but I had communication with them. They offered to reveal the mysteries of the universe to me. There was no question about it, they were benevolent and their offer was genuine and sincere. However, there was a condition involved with it—a payment on my part was to be made. I had to relinquish any further contact with this world. In other words, I would never return. I opened my eyes and I looked around. I saw my living room, my piano, my friend who was supposed to watch over me but who was tucked up in the large armchair sound asleep. I thought of my family and friends, my teaching and writing. I looked through the large window and saw the trees outside. I thought of my sanity. No, I did not want to lose all these! Nor, I reflected, did I wish to lose my regular self, the way I am, the way I think and feel. I sat up straight and spontaneously got my hands moving and energetically slapped my lap. Again and again I slapped so as to break myself free from the spell. Thus, I had forsaken the opportunity to learn the mysteries of the universe.
>Afterwards I regretted my decision. Later, I reflected a lot on this episode and have drawn many lessons from it. I shall not dwell further on them here.
>>664815 >Do psychedelics have a real place in religion? Sure; they're an excellent way to control people. Spike the kool-aid with a very small dose of LSD before the sermon and you'll have a congregation eating out of your hand.
>>667382 >having to physically be there to control them >trying to make them do anything productive while they're tripping balls >only being able to control a couple dozen at a time >large crowds turn into a chaotic mob that don't listen to shit you say >have some freak upstage you by getting too into it and going way to far with whatever ideology you're pushing We'll stick with tv and fast food, thanks
Yes. Humans have been using recreational drugs since before language.
And religion is sort of like the franchised version of spirituality. Insights gained when on drugs, or in meditation, or otherwise, are then packaged and sold to the masses. Unfortunately, with religion, most people never develop a spiritual life of their own, which is pretty sad.
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