>"Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age." >(Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Number 234)
>'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. >(Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3311)
>'A'isha reported that she used to play with dolls in the presence of Allah's Messenger and when her playmates came to her they left (the house) because they felt shy of Allah's Messenger whereas Allah's Messenger sent them to her. >(Sahih Muslim, Book 031, Number 5981)
>Narrated ‘Aisha: Allah’s Apostle said (to me), "You were shown to me in a dream. AN ANGEL brought you to me, wrapped in a piece of silken cloth, and said to me, ‘This is your wife.’ I removed the piece of cloth from your face, and there you were. I said to myself. ‘If it is from Allah, then it will surely be.’" >(Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 57)
>>660949 >>According to Monahan and Just, for the Sambia of highland New Guinea, homosexuality and heterosexuality were not opposed, but were understood to be stages in a single sequence of normal male development. As the Sambia saw it, boys lacked a crucial substance necessary to develop muscle, stature, bravery, and the other characteristics of a successful warrior. This substance, jurungdu, was concentrated in semen, which the boys would ingest in the course of homosexual acts during several stages of initiation. As a boy progressed in his initiation he would change from being a receiver of semen to a donor of semen, as younger initiates would perform oral sex on him. At the end of the initiation process the adult man would marry and eventually maintain exclusively heterosexual relations.
A sharp contrast exists between the treatment of homosexuality in Islamic law, on the one hand (see ii. above), and its reflection in Persian literature, particularly poetry (the chief vehicle of Persian literary expression), on the other. From the dawn of Persian poetry in the ninth century all through to the twentieth century, not only was homosexuality condoned in Persian poetry, but in fact homoeroticism formed almost the only amatory subject of Persian ghazals (short sonnet-like lyrics) and the main topic of much of Persian love poetry. ... The fact that in the poems written chiefly during the 10th-12th centuries the beloved is generally a boy and most often a soldier led to a series of images, similes, metaphors, motifs, themes, and attitudes which characterize the Persian lyric poetry written mostly in the form of the qasida and the ghazal. The beloved is frequently depicted as armed with a sword or a bow or an unspecified weapon. When annoyed by a lover, he may draw his sword and attack him; but the lover, devoted and submissive, rejoices in the beloved’s fury as a much coveted sign of attention and considers himself fortunate indeed to be struck dead by him, preferring his abuse and assault to his neglect and indifference. ... The social acceptance of homoeroticism, in spite of religious prohibition, was such that ʿOnṣor-al-Maʿāli Kay-Kāvus, a prince of Ṭabarestān, in his well-known mirror for princes, commonly known as Qābus-nāma, written as a compendium of advice for his son Gilānšāh, not only approves of male homosexuality, but suggests the best way of practicing it, even though he is by all accounts a man of piety, bound by the dictates of religion. In a chapter on “Enjoying Sexual Relations” (Tamattoʿ kardan, chap. 15) he advises a bisexual approach, employing both women and boys (ḡolāmān), but always in moderation: “so that you can benefit by both and neither of the two parties may turn against you”
how is this the least bit surprising when you consider the hostility of many gays to "breeders". it makes perfect sense that an immensely homosexual or homoerotic society would be incredibly hostile toward women.
look at the greeks - they loved the boipussy and kept the actual pussy away from the man boy fun times. hence maenads, harpies, sphynxes, gorgons, sirens and other terrible avatars of female hatred and retribution.
>>661350 In ancient Greece the practice was closer to ephebophilia, which would be attraction to post-pubescent (~14-19 year old) individuals. Modern academics have tried to frame it as some sort of utopian homosexual love, but in fact it was far closer to codified child abuse. The idea was that upon reaching pubescence, a youth should have a mentor to guide him in his affairs. This entailed training him martially, instilling the society's morals in him, and educating the youth in civic and intellectual affairs. It was supposed to be a sort of love, but not a romantic or sexual one – in fact, there's quite a bit of primary source material that concerns itself with what is improper or abusive in the mentor-youth relationship.
Nevertheless, there was a pattern of sexual ephebophilia in Achaean society, and there was certainly a heavy fixation on both the beauty of masculinity and the beauty of youth. Such sexual acts were seen as acceptable with slaves (at least, that's what the literate upper-class horndogs seem to imply), but were absolutely taboo with the sons of free men. Eventually the mentor-student relationship degenerated into the more influential men forcing families to trust their sons to them, ostensibly for this guidance but in reality more as forced romantic wards. Again, the men who glorified this were mostly the only ones who participated in it, but the accounts of others seem to indicate that during the times that it was practiced, it was seen as something corrupt. There was even a particular ritual, in which the mentor would appear as a 'suitor,' and the boy would be treated as a 'bride' to be whisked off on a honeymoon – which indeed occurred, as doubtless did the other 'honeymoon' activities.
Again, masculine beauty and youthful beauty were glorified, but moreso in an aesthetic, not sexual, sense. The mentor-youth relationship was also glorified by most Greeks, but it was never meant to be sexual.
>>661531 >The mentor-youth relationship was also glorified by most Greeks, but it was never meant to be sexual. Yeah right, as if would something stop the mentor from getting all that prime boipuss all for himself
Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with physically and emotionally mature people having sex, but it pisses me off when I see 'academic liberals' trying to hold up the Greek aristocrats as paragons of love and equality.
They abused their women and coerced other families into letting them rape their sons.
>>661538 Well, that's what ended up happening. I don't pretend to know if the mentor arrangement came first, and was later perverted into what it became, or if the ideal of that relationship just emerged as a justification later on. Considering how ingrained into their society it was, though, I would assume that at some prior point it was actually a functioning and morally sound arrangement – if you take the boipucci lust out of the picture, it seems like a pretty good way to provide a martial and civic education in a city-state, since it would involve the leaders of the community mentoring the next generations. Kind of like a role-model coach in one of those shitty movies about underprivileged kids.
"In 2008, Maria Teresa Marabini Moevs argued in an article for Bollettino d'Arte that the Warren Cup is not in fact a Roman product of the early Imperial period, but rather was executed around 1900 by a gifted silversmith trained in the contemporary Liberty style, perhaps commissioned by the amateur archaeologist and dealer Fausto Benedetti (1874–1931), to meet what he knew to be the taste of his foreign client and friend Edward Perry Warren. Benedetti may have worked in collaboration with the Castellani brothers of Rome, who were leading goldsmiths in classical styles, and collectors and dealers in antiquities. Moevs, an authority on Roman pottery, claims that the images on the cup derive from fragments of several scenes on Greek and Roman ceramics, including some in the Castellani collection, which were combined and modified to create the scenes on the Warren cup. An appendix to that article by silversmith Claudio Franchi provides corroborating technical evidence."
In short it was a forgery, but one that copied classic Roman themes and motifs so well that it fooled generations of art collectors and museum keepers.
Dyfri Williams, the British Museum's Keeper of Greek and Roman Antiquities, in 2006: "We wanted to show this fantastic object in a context in which we could ask how much we understand about attitudes to sexuality when it was made. These objects seem extraordinary to us now, but there were many objects in common use, and wall paintings and mosaics in baths and in private houses, showing very similar imagery."
>>662540 definitely, we'll start hearing words like pedo-phobe everytime a pedophilia is ill spoken of in the next 10-15 years. when that happens, i shall consider living in a cave, have a pet tiger and a spear.
Child marriage has been taking place in virtually every culture, including Western society, since the beginning of time and has only really stopped since the late 19th century as a combined result of the social purity movement and first wave feminism.
It was common for girls as young as 7 years old to be married off to men in colonial America (18th century).
In Roman times the age of consent for girls was generally 12 years old but it was acceptable for girls younger than 12 to be married off to a husband with her father's permission.
The Talmud allows for a girl as young as 3 years old to be married off to a husband.
>>663078 Sorta Jew here, youve read too many /pol/ memes. The passage, I believe ketuvot 11b(?) states that if a girl as young as 3 were raped, she wouldn't be held accountable for not having a hymen because she wasn't a woman, and therefore still considered a Virgin when she was eventually married off.
>>662627 Because they are, 18 year old is fine and not a second earlier is literally the epitome of a social construct, it's completely meaningless, as if boys and girls had more maturity by the time they're 18 than 16 or 14
Nah, that Talmud passage is defending girls, not allowing them for sexual abuse.
Pre-modern Jewish society was so ridiculously misogynist that a woman who was raped would be forced to undergo social isolation and generally not be able to find a suitable husband. She was considered broken.
The Talmud says that if a child is raped (3 years is an example, not an age limit) the rape is clearly out of her control so she wouldn't have to suffer the consequences.
>>665518 Is it a lie to say that many homosexuals want to fuck young boys?
Is it a lie that in Islamic countries, fucking young boys is more socially acceptable than in the bourgeois West?
Is it a lie that this explains why so many homosexuals hate the West and are open to Islam? Michel Foucault, for example, based his entire oeuvre on his desire to ruin Western civilization, but he cheered for the Islamic Revolution in Iran.
>>665550 There are just as many heterosexual pedophiles as there are homosexual ones. In fact, there might be more heterosexual pedophiles, considering the victims of child sexual abuse are mostly girls.
So much for the "all gays are pedophiles" argument. Also, the thing with pedophilia is an Afghan cultural thing.
Pedophilia in the form of child marriage as this anon said >>663078 has been in the norm in human society until the 19th century.
Really, there's nothing wrong with it other than MUH FEELS and MUH CHILLUNS
There is not one shred of peer reviewed scientific evidence that shows that child marriage causes any real lasting psychological or physical harm to either consenting party in a long term relationship.
>>665587 >Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger. >generally age 11 years or younger.
>>665616 You answered your own questions my nigger:
>"Probably in most cases this coincided with the onset of MENARCHE in girls and the appearance of pubic hair in boys, that is, between twelve and fourteen, but the boundaries remained fluid. " >between twelve and fourteen
12-14 was only a very fluid boundary of consummation - it was common and acceptable for girls to be married off earlier than that age and have their marriages consummated earlier (as long as signs of puberty started showing).
It seems a lot like the Greco-Roman approach to pederasty.
It's not really gay or "deviant" as long as you are the adult male penetrating the boy or youth. I'm sure taking it in the ass, sucking dick, or engaging in any passive sexual behavior would be seen as gay however.
Afghanistan 2015 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi >In 2015, The New York Times reported that U.S. soldiers serving in Afghanistan were instructed by their commanders to ignore child sexual abuse being carried out by Afghan security forces, except "when rape is being used as a weapon of war." American soldiers have been instructed not to intervene — in some cases, not even when their Afghan allies have abused boys on military bases, according to interviews and court records. But the U.S. soldiers have been increasingly troubled that instead of weeding out pedophiles, the US military was arming them against the Taliban and placing them as the police commanders of villages — and doing little when they began abusing children. One U.S. Army Captain, Dan Quinn, became distressed after hearing cries of young boys being raped by Afghan officers. He then intervened and beat up the Afghan officer who was responsible. After the beating, the US Army relieved the Captain of his command and pulled him from Afghanistan. He has since left the military.
Supreme Court Case: New York v. Ferber 458 U.S. 747 (1982) Allowed the government to ban child pornography ("children under 16") Before this it was up to local jurisdictions, (see California v. Miller, 1973), to decide what was "obscene" So until Reagan became president, child pornography, while not promoted, was available in many places legally in the US Still allowed if done as "Art" in photography, modeling, "artistic films" In several states marriage to a minor as young as 12 is still allowed, with parental permission, not just in the south, NJ is pretty strange concerning it's sex laws (i.e. only state to allow full sibling and parent/ child marriage once over 18) United States laws are still pretty lax, molest a strangers child, get a long time in jail, but molest your own children, some jail but more likely probation, the message is "fuck your own kids, not someone else's" For most of history of mankind, children have been "possessions" to be done with as one wished, only very recently (post WWII, in western society) has that idea changed, most of the developing world children are property, and poor families will use ever asset available for income The sexualization of children is still occurring in all societies, some are more willing to admit it, than others Has always gone on and will probably always go on
Marrying young isn't an indicator of predilection for pedophilia.
Youth is always attractive, because it has biological significance to procreation. Even these days, evolutionary features that mimic youthfulness (big eyes, clear or smooth skin) are considered attractive because it indicates health, and healthy people can make healthy babies.
Not only that, but think about the life expectancy generations and generations ago. If you didn't marry early, if your females weren't being impregnated as early as possible the window of fertility decreased.
I subscribe to the theory that, no, pedophilia as we know it was never an issue, to be accepted or not. That's not to say that the EXCLUSIVE attraction to children was never a thing... If you no longer fucked your wife after she hit, say, 16, you were still going to socially ostracized (American Frontier age) or in Roman times you adhere to the social standard of also taking a wife alongside your boytoy.
Tl;Dr : in social settings where life expectancy is short, underage sex will be considered normal. Sex with ONLY minors would still be socially inappropriate.
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