Who was the most "competent" man in history?
The one who had a job to do and executed it so well that everyone, even his enemies, had to respect him?
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this guy. I doubt that anybody didn't respect him from his entry in the Senate until his death.
"There is no dear friend, and no grave enemy, that I have not repaid in full."
erwin rommel,the desert fox, north african theater, world war II,
Not even the North Koreans try talking shit about this guy anymore.
Let the implications of that sink in.
>what you see here is the typical /his/ type autist poster. Notice the way his brow furroughs at the mention of Erwin Rommel. Years of research have concluded that at this point, his one-track mind cannot let go of the thought "A general so popular? This is to simple. I've read multiple /pol/ posts on Rommel's supply problems". This this man, nothing is possible except for total degredation of Rommel's reputation. You see, this poster views his own opinion as superior to that of Rommel's contemporaries. He is, after all, an educated /his/ poster who's listened to every single Dan Carlin podcast and knows a thing or two about OBSCURE generals, like Belisarius and Khalid ibn Walid
I'm expert in 19th century German history, but for an American I feel like I have a good understanding of German history from 1871-present.
Even if he's on the fringe of my knowledge of the period, Bismark stands out to me as one of the most skilled statesmen of all time.
True. But in many regards, Mussolini was exceptional. I'm reading a book on him right now, he was no slouch, no drunkard, extremely dedidacted and more politically adept than many other people in history.
The reason we shit on him today is because he got dragged into world war 2. Italy wasn't ready - and he knew it. But what can you do when your best buddy up north is attacking shit left and right without even telling you about it.
Mussolini was in many regards exceptional and also clear sighted. Toward the end, when Hitler reinstated him in the northern italian puppet state, he knew he was finished and even said so.
>rommel more competent than based guderian or von manstein
that's just loony
Closest to a Godly status reformator and a public figure for me is clearly Octavian August. Having the balls to not only tell people how to live their lives but himself being an example of royality! Being a General a Princeps and a Tribun as well. For me the history has already seen the peak of humanity.
Philip II was a highly competent schemer and knew exactly what cards to play. He wasn't briliant, however. For instance, he hated siege warfare and refused to get bogged down in sieges. Whatever knowledge Alexander had of sieges, none of it came from Philip.
>replied with a non-argument
Pic related, meatbag.
Didn't stop them becoming one of the few countries in the world to send a person into space and containing the Nazi war machine mostly on their own.
this is some america didnt lose vietnam tier bullshit right there
>we didnt lose!
>we killed more of them!
>they sacrificed lots to win a war!
>it was costy sending gagarin to space!
anglo butthurt best butthurt
>Yet it could not produce efficient machinery to win wars.
Italy was very open towards Germany that it would not be ready for war until 1942. The Pact of Steel called for action not before 1942 - by which time both Italy and Germany were ready. However, Germany breached this agreement by going to war with Poland in 1939 and starting the war early - without even consulting Italy.
Italy did not want war when the war came. Mussolini was a very capable statesman and streamlined much of Italian society, as well as founding a working relationship with the catholic church. Mussolini also stamped out the mafia in Sicily. You're not painting an accurate picture of Mussolini or Italy in ww2 with your brief slights.
>The reason we shit on him today is because he got dragged into world war 2. Italy wasn't ready - and he knew it. But what can you do when your best buddy up north is attacking shit left and right without even telling you about it.
So why the fuck did he march into Albania/Greece/France / British Egypt?
Your post can't be real.
>However, Germany breached this agreement by going to war with Poland in 1939 and starting the war early - without even consulting Italy.
Italy wasn't fucking involved in the war until ITALY DECLARED war on the allies in 1940.
Holy shit, are you being serious right now?
Mussolini wrongly judged the French army to be weaker than it was. Who can blame him, considering the rapid fall against Germany? It was a desperate and stupid landgrab but the rewards seemed to greatly outweigh the risks.
The same applied to Greece. Remember, Italy and Greece (with Albania) was a boiling pot waiting to happen. Not 15 years earlier, Italy had occupied Corfu to force Greece to give into demands. Italy clearly considered herself the superior of Greece militarily.
>declared war on allies
Yes, as required by the pact of steel.
>which is why nobody ever calls him "competent"
So you'd disregard all of his other accomplishments? That's called cherrypicking. You do know that Mussolini was in power for over 15 years before the outbreak of the war, right?
Wasn't even a man when he BTFO kebab.
Managed to be a competent ruler even when his face was rotting off, the poor guy.
>That had nothing to do with the Pact, that was, once again, Il Duce being a retard.
Hostilities between Greece and Italy were unavoidable considering Greece got many of the land possessions that Italy had coveted when entering ww1. This is what the Corfu occupation was all about as well. You can call italy's military stupid and inept - it was - but Mussolini wasn't. Hitler, on the other hand, was.
List his accomplishments then, did he have any?
He increased productivity.
He unified the italian state with the catholic church (Despite being an atheist)
He stamped out the mafia
He took a nation crippled by strikes and effectively destroyed them
He instigated socialist programs that brought culture and a higher standard of living to the poor and middle class
He maneauvered himself to power
He siezed power of italy despite his party having not even support of 20% of the populace (The March on Rome)
He stamped out socialism and communism
He conquered Ethiopia
He was as cunning as Hitler when it came to assessing the political situation of Europe but he wasn't as deluded as the Führer.
>but Mussolini wasn't.
He was so inept his country surrendered in 1943, switched sides and he willfully joined in a German-controlled puppet state after the Germans saved his fat ass from captivity.
Musso was a moron, but by all means, keep praising him if you want to.
Both you and I know you're cherrypicking here.
World war 2 was out of his hands and Mussolini realized way earlier than Hitler that the cause was lost.
Hitler placed Mussolini in charge of the puppet state - had it been up to Mussolini he most likely would not have accepted it. But propaganda reasons demanded it.
>He siezed power of italy
King Victor Emmanuel invited Mussolini to form a government.
> brought culture and a higher standard of living to the poor
He caused grain prices to increase by stopping imports,that would reduce the living standards of the poor.
>King Victor Emmanuel invited Mussolini to form a government.
Yes, but it's not as if he got there by accident.
>He caused grain prices to increase by stopping imports,that would reduce the living standards of the poor.
At the same time he initiated several welfare programs for children.
That's not what I said at all.
Yeah, I'm not saying he's great. But he wasn't incompetent like many portray him as. I would in no way list him amongst Napoleon. But I would rank him on par with Hitler and some other contemporaries of his that usually get more credit. In fact, I'd probably put him above Hitler, seeing as Hitler was the one that destroyed both germany and italy.
What always freaks me out about this picture is that as far as I can tell, that's an official portrait, which means vlad looked at that and said "yeah that makes me look the most attractive I could possibly be". Imagine how fucking terrifying he would have been irl
>Why are these guys so happy
>Oh, right, they 'rescued' me
>Now I get to be Hitler's puppet while the Americans are conquering Italy from the south
>Meanwhile, half the country hates my guts and is already tying nooses for me
>I'm a dead man walking and my legacy has gone up in smoke
>And I'm supposed to smile?
>Nah, fuck that.
Also, moot spotted on the right.
He hated sieges but he still successfully conducted many of them in his life time. He was brilliant because not only was he great at diplomacy and scheming, but also warfare and running his state, Alexander for example only ever proved himself in warfare.
he was a putppet of the elites who saw the writing on the wall and did everything, EVERYTHING do smooth the road for their creature to do what they couldn't if they hoped to endure as "elites".
plebs always always underestimate the Aristo's, the only way, THE ONLY WAY to put them in their place is to put them in the ground.
>His only mistake was allying with the real idiot
Wrong. He was forced into that because of the sudden diplomatic reversal following the war in Ethiopia, with France and later Britain refusing to consider negotations and straight up condemning Italy for doing the exact same thing they were doing.
Mussolini's real mistake was entering the war, when he wasn't being forced to, believing that Hitler would stop after the collapse of France and negotiate peace with Britain.
>Kong fucking ming
>not a hypocritical asshole with the most inflated reputation in military history
Top fucking kek. Pic related, the period's real genius.
>Pact of Steel forced him into war.
Diplomacy never forced anyone to do anything. Mussolini could well have ignored the pact, he chose not to. And he reaped the results.
Allying with Germany by itself can't really be considered a mistake tho, because they were after all a very threatening presence whose objectives mostly overlapped with Italy's. Not to mention the fact that Mussolini required a market like Germany to acquire the resources necessary to keep industrializing Italy, after the rest of the european ones got closed to him through sanctions.
First of all, what do you consider "diplomacy"? Because while I call things like this
>It was now that Philip applied the coup de grace. He had persuaded the Athenians and other Greeks that he and his army was heading for Halos, but it seems certain that he also sent other units straight to Thermopylae. All of central and southern Greece was now at Philip's mercy, and the Athenians could not now save Phocis even if they abandoned the peace. Philip could be certain of dictating the terms of the end of the Sacred War, since he could now use force against any state that did not accept his arbitration.
Diplomacy, others would call it scheming
As for sieges, specific names are slim, but I know he besieged many cities (as many as 32) when he attacked Chalkidian League
>but I know he besieged many cities (as many as 32) when he attacked Chalkidian League
Maybe. He was also unsuccesfull in a few of them, something Alexander never was. Also, he built Pella without walls, so he was kinda delusional when it came to siege warfare... He underestimated it very much.
As for Alexander's diplomacy,
Remember that many cities he took by diplomacy. Gordium, Egypt, Susa, Persepolis. He stabilized the empire via diplomacy as well, for instance pacifying hill tribes on terms that were favourable to them - lullying them into submission if you will.
He often exploited existing divides within the empire to gain easier victories. One instance is Halicarnassus where he allied with Ada of Caria and positioned her on the throne of Halicarnassus after capturing the city. His campaigns are full of deals like this, for instance joining with one indian ruler to fight Porus'. I forgot the name of the ally tho, but I can look it up if you want to, the Arrian is around here somewhere.
> The one who had a job to do and executed it so well that everyone, even his enemies, had to respect him?
> When you pour vast sums of resources into an objective, you can achieve it. That doesn't make you competent. Give me a billion dollars and I open a world class restaurant.
Nine of out ten - you'll get swindled out of your "billion dollars" by the end of the first week.
Also, Soviet Union never had "vast sums of resources". Before WWI Russia was the poorest and dumbest shithole in Europe. By 1922 it was below Africa-tier.
Based Cao Cao was respected in both administration and war. Kongming was loyal to a hack and a loser.
>Cao Mengde will never be defeated in battle
Pretty sure that was wrong even at that point in history.
Regardless, most based ruler of the period easy. Even considering his losses, in proportion he must have been top 5 most winning general too.
In all seriousness, Timothy Dexter.
>He will always be known as
Top kek, like that means anything. Just look at op's pic, that guy is considered a military genius in chinese popular culture, but out of six campaigns he was in charge of, he lost five, and the sixth he won because the opposing general was murdered by his own and internal infighting ensued.
>Members of the New England high society rarely socialized with him. Dexter decided to buy a huge house in Newburyport from Nathaniel Tracy, a local socialite, and tried to emulate them. His relationships with his wife, daughter, and son also suffered. This became evident when he started telling visitors that his wife had died (despite the fact that she was still alive) and that the woman who frequented the building was simply her ghost.
Hahaahahha. This fucking nigga
>In one notable episode, Dexter faked his own death to see how people would react. About 3,000 people attended Dexter's mock wake. Dexter did not see his wife cry, and after he revealed the hoax, he caned her for not grieving enough.
>curbed piracy in the mediterranean.
He was offered 500 ships and 3 years from the republic.
Complete the task in 3 months with 50 ships.
Respected by many. Including Julius Caeser. Because of this julius had him killed when jostling for power.
>For me the history has already seen the peak of humanity.
I find this viewpoint interesting since my undergraduate.
One of my favorite professors was fascinated with this. He told me one time of his intentions to write a book called "the History of the Decline of the West."
In his reading of history, most reformation movements were looking backward. Being convinced that things had deteriorated, they wanted to literally "re-form" a more perfect organization that existed in the past. All this happened while society was progressing towards a modern state.
While I haven't researched extensively as he has, I think it's an interesting viewpoint. It always seems like a certain and influential portion of western society think things are getting worse, even at points when historical evidence suggests that things are getting better. It's really fascinating to me. I'd very much like to see my old prof achieve his dream of publishing this book.
>"julius had him killed when jostling for power."
t. historical illiterate
I also find it ironic that Pompey ended the pirates for a few decades, and then his son basically became the King of Pirates.
>Aged 50, Dexter wrote a book about himself – A Pickle for the Knowing Ones or Plain Truth in a Homespun Dress – in which he also complained about politicians, the clergy and his wife. The book contained 8,847 words and 33,864 letters, but no punctuation and its capitalization seemed random. At first, he handed his book out for free, but it became popular and was reprinted for sale eight times. In the second edition, Dexter added an extra page which consisted of 13 lines of punctuation marks with the instructions that readers could distribute them as they pleased.
He became too good at his job so they shot him
>he lost battles but always recovered
You could say the same for those Shu military failures until Jiang Wei's idiocy coup de graced them.
It still doesn't change the fact that they were the most worthless military of the period.
Cao Cao is certainly based enough that we don't need to justify his defeats. When you fight as much as he did, you're bound to lose a few times. What matters is how much you win.
Pompey anf Julius practically spated it out with partisans at Pharsalus. Pompey fled to egypt but as he set foot on shore he was shanked. Yh perhaps Julius didnt order him to be shanked directly. But they werent exactly the best of friends and Julius didnt exactly waste his time expanding his own influence after Pompey's death.
>He was offered 500 ships and 3 years from the republic.
>Complete the task in 3 months with 50 ships.
If I remember correctly, it's not that he was offered all of that, he pretented all of that. Specifically so as to be guaranteed consular authority over a shitload of men and all the coastland of the republic for three years. It was a power grab.
Also, he accomplished nothing but disperse the pirates for a few years, after which they came back as before. You don't "end" piracy, you police the sea against it.