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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

Thread replies: 68
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ITT: Discuss Islam, its beliefs, merits to society. Debate about it. Question it. Discuss its place in the Abrahamic Trio.

Bonus Game: Convince me to convert to Islam.
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>>620732
Allahu Akbar
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>>620732
Can Islam be described as anti-secular since the methods of administration, polity and jurisprudence are contained within it?
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>>620732

When will you be converting, OP?
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>>620732
Where should I start if I don't know anything about islam
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>>620904
Your local mosque or the closest one to you. Or start from Wiki if you're not that serious yet.
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>>620915
I'm not thinking of converting. Just curious of the history and important religious concepts
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"So patiently persevere: for verily the promise of Allah is true: nor let those shake thy firmness, who have (themselves) no certainty of faith." (30:60)
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>shitty religion created because Arabs were jealous of Christians and Jews
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>>620927
https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/1zh1y9/islamic_resources/ has a good intro to the basics.
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>>620953
>yfw when Arabs had the last laugh

Feelsgood.jpg
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islam is a shit religion
it encourages sex with goats, beheading of infidels, sharia law is pathetic and is strictly against several things that obviously benefit everyone. the only good thing to ever come out of islam was the islamic golden age. they ruined the middle east. look at the world today. theres a suicide bombing every 7 hours on average and guess what? most of these people are fucking muslims.

i believe the path to a better world would be to discourage islamism, if not to simply exterminate muslims from earth and replace them with anyone of other beliefs.

>inb4 ban
>inb4 "back to le pol :DDDDD"

Read the OP faggots. OP clearly said I can debate and question its merits.
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>>620959
>last laugh
>arab women are coming to the west and becoming westernized and abandoning their faith in massive numbers

Bruh, most of the generation of arabs born in the west are already westerners basically. 1-2 generations from now, islam will probably die out the same way christianity did
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>>620969
I'm really surprised that you believe the "islamic" "golden" age meme is true
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>>620959
>last laugh
Arabs aren't necessarily muslims and if they really had the last laugh it would be Europeans migrating to Arabia not the opposite. The western world is still the economic, military, scientific, moral and social standard for the rest of the world. In Iraq you're lucky if you don't have your throat sliced by Jihadi John. In the west you're unlucky if you earn less than 100 dollars a day. God bless America, god bless Europe. Kill the terrorists.
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>>620944
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>>620977
Well it is though.
But Islam is still shit.
Seriously, its colour is green. Green is the same colour of vomit. How can a religion be even worse?
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>>620977
Islam instructs man to use his powers of intelligence and observation. Within a few years of the spread of Islam, great civilisations and universities were flourishing. The synthesis of Eastern and Western ideas, and of new thought with old, brought great advances in medicine, mathematics, physics, astronomy, geography, architecture, art, literature, and history.

Many crucial systems, such as algebra, the Arabic numerals, and the concept of zero (vital to the advancement of mathematics), so were transmitted to medieval Europe from the Muslim world. Sophisticated instruments which were to make possible the European voyage of discovery, such as the astrolabe, the quadrant, and good navigational maps, were also developed by Muslims.

The Qur'an, the last revealed word of God, is the primary source of every Muslim's faith and practice. It deals with all subjects which concern human beings: wisdom, doctrine, worship, transactions and the law. Its basic theme, however, is the relationship between God and his creatures. At the same time, it provides guidelines and detailed teachings for a just society, proper human conduct, and an equitable economic system.
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>>620998
nice pasta, Muhammad
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Qu'uran: Revelations from Allah to his messenger pbuh. It's main narrative element is being a reminder to humankind of what they are and where they'll end up. Adam, Moses, Jesus, Noah, etc are all claimed to be prophets with their own set of revelations. However, since humankind keeps either forgetting and/or editing/modifying the revelations, Allah sends his final Messenger Muhammad pbuh with the final revelations; Quran.

Here's an extremely short general on Muhammad pbuh
>Father dies before his birth
>Mother dies when he's around 6 yrs old
>Grows up as an Orphan
>Around his 20's, he becomes famous in Mecca as "Al-Ameen" or The Trustworthy (this will actually go on even after he is exiled from Mecca. Meccans had so much trust in him with their money and goods even after they tried murdering him)
>Pre-40 yrs old, the love of being alone while worshiping God befalls on him and starts going to one of the nearest mountains to practice so
>At 40 yrs old, Muhammad pbuh receives the very first revelation. He comes down the mountain to his household terrified and trembling.
>Starts preaching to his household and his closest friends at first until the revelations order him to preach to all people
>Starts preaching in Mecca
>Majority of the followers were the young and the poor
>Elite Meccans hated his monotheistic call since it had the potential to disrupt their business which relied heavily on polytheistic traditions
>Elite Meccans torture and murder his followers
>His Uncle (one of the Elites) protects Muhammad pbuh
>His Uncle dies
>More torture
>Meccans place sanctions on Muhammad and his followers from the market. No food or water for any of the few Muslims around
>Muhammad pbuh and his handful of followers are forced to leave Mecca in secret

-- That's the Meccan period. In perspective, Muhammad pbuh spent 20+ yrs preaching, 13+ yrs are the ones spent in Mecca.
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>>620732
I like the art style, it's kinda delicate, but highly appealing
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>>621010
You forgot the part where he rapes a loli and slaughters a bunch of innocent people because the voices in his head told him to
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Cont.

The Medina Period is where Muhammad pbuh established what you would call an Islamic Community. This is the same community that will grow on to defeat the Byzantines and the Persians. (post his death pbuh of course)

Is there anything specific you would like to know?
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>>620998
>Islam instructs man to use his powers of intelligence and observation.

Then Islam is self contradicting. How can you believe God when there's no evidence of him existing? And I'm saying this as a die hard Christian. God is a belief. Islam has a God. Islam encourages observation. Thus Islam is retarded.

>Within a few years of the spread of Islam, great civilisations and universities were flourishing

Multiple of the "Islamic" contributions are in fact rip offs of Persian, Greek and Hindu advancements. Today, muslim majority countries rank lower than most otherr countries in terms of patents - they have even less inventions than South American and Christian African countries. Literally 99% you use on a daily basis was invented by non-muslims, just look arround and see with your own eyes what's in your roomn that was invented by a muslim.

>Many crucial systems, such as algebra, the Arabic numerals, and the concept of zero (vital to the advancement of mathematics), so were transmitted to medieval Europe from the Muslim world.

True but the fact that the Muslim word was the bridge to the knowledge doesn't mean they created it. And besides, if the Western world put that knowledge to better use (as we can see today, with rockets, space programs and the like) then there's no question that the west has smarter inventors than the muslims.


>The Qur'an, the last revealed word of God, is the primary source of every Muslim's faith and practice.

Makes sense when you look at this chart and compare it to the passages of Quran that defend beheading of infidels just because they don't want to be a muslim.

>e. It deals with all subjects which concern human beings: wisdom, doctrine, worship, transactions and the law. Its basic theme, however, is the relationship between God and his creatures. At the same time, it provides guidelines and detailed teachings for a just society, proper human conduct, and an equitable economic system.

This is just dumb.
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>>621010
You're supposed to put "pbuh" after each prophet's name. Why do most Muslims use it only for Muhammad?
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>>620732
Where my Muslims at? I'm in Germany; and I can't wait to bring my entire family of seven here so they can never learn the language, live off government benefits, lower the property value of my neighborhood by moving out my white neighbors and build large mosques with minarets everywhere.

Oh, and if you're in Frankfurt we'll be opening up Sharia Patrols soon.
/s
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>>621014
>rapes a loli

Young people getting married has been the norm for the majority of history until the 20th century. Muhammads' pbuh marriage to Aisha was an establishment and tie to his companion and Aisha's father Abu Bakr.

Marriage was to form alliances among the tribes and families. It has nothing to do with "loli rape" or whatever meme.

As a matter of fact, Muhammads' wives were dominantly poor and/or widowed women who had no one to aid them.

>kills innocent people

Who? His main wars were against the Meccans.
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>>621024
My fault.
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>>621014

>You forgot the part where he rapes a loli

Woah woah woah woah. Why do you assume it was rape? What 9-year-old wouldn't want to have sex with their dad's 50-year-old friend?
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>>621036
>not realizing that the same girl ends up as arguably the most influential Muslim after Muhammad pbuh

Without Aisha's life witnessing Muhammads' pbuh manners and ways of life, we wouldn't have much of the Sunnah (the second biggest element after Quran)
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>>621030
She was fucking 6 when he married her. That is pedo shit.
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>>621041
This. Why don't people realize this.
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>>621042
What you consider "pedo shit" has been the norm throughout history. The matter of fact is if Muhammad pbuh did have pedophiliac behaviour, he would have gotten himself more than just one. But he didn't. His marriage to Aisha was to establish firm alliance with Abu Bakr.

It is only noted that while Aisha was planned to marry Muhammad pbuh at 6, she only was able to go to Muhammads' household at 9 when she hit puberty.
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>>621049
>e norm throughout history

No it hasn't. At the earliest girls would be married at 12
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let's think of ways to eradicate Islam.

Today creative ideas tomorrow practical plans of Muslim eradication
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>>621049
I heard that Abu Bakr had an older unmarried daughter though. Is that true?
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>>621052
It's a moot point anyway. Aisha is practically the genius of Islam. And her marriage to Muhammad has been one of the most important elements in Islamic history and theology.

Trying to say that Muhammad was "loli rape lol" holds no water.
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>>621059
No, his eldest daughter Asma was married to Al-Zubayr.
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>>621069
He fucked a little girl and she was later glorified to cover up that fact. So what?
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>>621079
>glorified
>nothing to do with her contributions

nice b8 m8
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>>621076
Were they married at the time when Muhammad married Aisha?
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>>621082
>made up contributions
>muhslim mythology
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>>621083
Aisha got married to Muhammad in Medina.
Asma was married to Al-Zubayr in Mecca pre-emigration.

So yes, Aisha's elder sister was already married.
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>>621093
>Aisha got married to Muhammad in Medina.
source?
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>>621099
"hen the marriage was consummated with Muhammad, then 53, in Medina." /armstrong/bukhari/tabari

it's literally the 3rd paragraph in wiki citing multitude of sources
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>>621107
>consummated
They married earlier.
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>>621112
im not aware of any source that claims that aisha was married to muhammad pbuh while her elder sister is unmarried
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>>621121
Well ahadith say that Aisha married Muhammad when she was 6/7, right? That would mean somewhere between 619 and 621
Wiki says Asma married Al-Zubayr shortly before the Hijrah, that would mean she married him in 622, correct?
So Asma was unmarried when Muhammad married Aisha.
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M8s does anyone have a PDF copy of this?

http://www.amazon.com/The-Quran-Annotated-Translation-Comparative/dp/1845539451
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What does /his/ think of Zensufism
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>>621024

That, and he forgot 'tbhfam'
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Why do Muslim scholars treat the hadith as historical? In fact why are they so afraid of critical scholarship (which is being pioneered in the west)?

You're just delaying the inevitable. If Christianity and Judaism survived the same process, who's to say Islam can't?
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>>621057

You don't need to, it's currently eradicating itself through wahabism. Pretty soon, it will implode in the same way American Christian fundamentalism imploded
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>>621045

Because its fucking irrelevant?

>>621049

Not it wasnt. People may have betrothed a 9 but they certainly didnt have sex. Especially when there is such a massive age difference.

I like a lot about Islam but there is no getting around that mohammed was dirty fucking pedo.
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>>621524
>I like a lot about Islam but there is no getting around that mohammed was dirty fucking pedo.

Shi'a Islam sort of gets around this because they basically hate Aisha.
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My copy of the study Qur'an arrives today and I'm so excited.
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>>620732
Todays allahers cult evil. They have evil word in fetish quran. Evil command to kill muslims converting to any other faith. Evil command do not paint for any purpose so even this >>620902 nice comics is taboo for allahers and all geographic maps is taboo too, and all medical pictures taboo too, and even icon into PC was painted so obey the quran and allah muhhamed and destroy your pc and never come back into internet. Evil command to oppress all other faith believers by tax and unemployment. Evil command to deny propaganda all other faiths under area influence of fetish quran. Evil hating of music. Allahers-sand-savages are shame of the Earth, better die while killing that allaher-savages than be allaher hyena as they are.
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>>620732
>Convince me to convert to Islam.
do you believe in 1 God and that the trinity is bullshit?

do you believe that God is omniscient?

Good, your a muslim. If not, your a judeo christian
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In Islam, comets are projectiles Allah uses to kill demons, the Quran says that sperm is produced from behind your ribs, that your bones are created before the flesh when you're in the belly and that the earth is flat like a carpet.
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>>621524
on the pedo matter, Aisha was most likely not underage if you study the hadith more in depth. The idea of hr being so young was because Bukhari decided that the symbol of her purity was more important than her actual physical age.

http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm
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>>623874
Officer I swear I thought she was 18.

Disgusting Islam scum.
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Do Muslims belive that that events in exordus literally happened?
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https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran

Personally I like the outright math errors. Apparently the Allah is bad at math.
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>>623874
Why not just be real historically accurate about the ages the real people fucked way back then?
Plenty of old men were fucking little girls back then, especially powerful men.
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So why is drawing the prophet forbidden? Well, rather I understand why. The Arabs have a weird cultural thing about drawing people, but why should that matter in Iran and Syria, areas not traditionally within the sphere of Arabia?
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serious question: why do you (the person reading this post) believe in a god? is it because you were raised with it and you just haven't questioned it much, because a life-altering event turned you towards religion, you are afraid of hell being real? etc. I am just curious to see the answers you guys give. also, why islam and not any other abrahamic religions or even any asian ones? why not polytheistic ones?
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>>620969
Incoherent ramblings.
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>>626449
great argument
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