What are some common reasons for conversion to Neopaganism aside from >muh heritage and trying to distance oneself from Christianity? Is there any merit to it or is it just a meme religion?
What do you think?
Of course it's just a bunch of bullshit.
Going for any relegion that's not a mainstream in your area is likely to be bullshit, but fuck even if you picked a real one like say... Jainism I'd give you the benefit of the doubt.
Seeing you are neopagan is literally the same as saying you are neonotchristion. It doesn't mean anything.
It's just a meme.
For example, I come from Ireland and we have no idea how our pre-Christian religion worked or who the Gods were. Our conversion to Christianity was entirely peaceful and the Church didn't do anything bad here until the formation of the modern state. All our fame and significance in the medieval period was thanks to our Christianity.
That doesn't stop overweight townies from dressing in bedsheets, painting their faces blue (which wasn't ever even done here) and destroying ancient standing stones
>100% drue Druid :DDDD my ancesdors sgream my name :DDDDD
Neopaganism is the newest form of autism
Austists think their edgy and cool for worshiping some fucking trees
>mfw a trinitarian talks about 'autistic' ideologies near me
It's all crap desu
African traditional religions are beautiful and living, sure some African Americans convert to it to get away from Christianity but I mean they were only Christian for the past three centuries and ATRs are continuous.
list goes on
It's a huge meme; firstly, because we don't know anything about the religion of our (Slovene here) ancestors save for the names of some of the gods, and secondly because Catholicism integrated many of the traditions of our ancestors into the new religion. Even the concept of the Holy Trinity was present in the beliefs of our ancestors, so was Christmas (albeit under a different name and as a day of remembrance of the son of just one of the many gods),...
You fuckin clowns. All that crushed velvet and patchouli bullshit will be gone in 10 more years. Reconstruction ism is ascendant. Develop the worldview, kick Christian baggage and soteriology to the curb, and I guarantee you'll feel at home.
And there's nothing racist or nationalist about it. Paganisms were tribal religions, and long gone before 16th and 17th ideas about races and nations developed.
From my experience most neo-pagans are either deluded New World hippies that want to "connect with their ancestoral religion" instead of hopping on the Orientialist bandwagon or they're retarded edgy nazi-type nationalists who're into the kike-on-a-stick view of Christianity.
>Is there any merit to it or is it just a meme religion?
Considering how relatively little information we have on ancient pagan religions (relative to mainstream ones) and how what little we do know are often from contemporaries outside of the religion it's pretty obvious to say that whatever religion neo-pagans believe in is a crude reconstruction at best and complete bullshit at worst.
I don't think it's inherently a meme, it's just that the majority of it's practitioners are retarded larpers
Platonic Pagan theology is actually pretty sophisticated, some practicing Geekboo pagans adhere to it, but those ones are super serious about their religion in a way that competes with Christians bishops, most pagans are more interested in having fun than trying to observe a pious lifestyle.
Why would your experience be relevant? None of you have the slightest idea of what you're taking about.
And what is this about so much info being lost? We know almost everything you could want to know about Roman religion, we know so much about Greek religion, there is plenty of archaeological, linguistic, and secondary/tertiary literary evidence from less documented cultures, don't forget comparative methods since we are talking IE cultures, and then there are entire fields of study devoted to researching ancient paganisms that continue to develop and reveal new info. You just haven't done the reading.
Religions are not just about ritual and scripture, it's also belonging to a community that inherited it from generation before them and pass it to the next generation.
Once it's dead, there's no sort necromancy to revive it. If you try to reconstruct it, it's a new religion.
Real talk. The reason for conversion is due to a more innate connection with the ritual aesthetic. When religious programming doesn't take, most are left with a vague sense of superstition. But, we crave ritual. Mainline protestantism lacks it and while the catholic church has it, it lacks much of the esoteric practice, philosophy and methodology of 'inner work' on the outward face.
In short, some people need a defined system of mystic practices done through ritual with an aesthetic that they relate to. Mere prayer doesn't cut it for them. It's what drives one to india.
>That doesn't stop overweight townies from dressing in bedsheets, painting their faces blue (which wasn't ever even done here) and destroying ancient standing stones
I live near the Burren and it's flooded with fucking English and German hippies who think we're some kind of elves. It's really fucking weird.
There onto Earth many monotheists religion faiths conflicting each other and with a lot of stupid mistakes as nonsense about Noah an ark and stupid attempts attack on Evolution idea. Most of them fibbers.
So, how normal people be expected view the spiritual world? Guess, pantheistic view to spiritual world better than schizophrenic view of monotheistic faiths.
Don't expect another reply from me if you won't respond to the points I raise. Where do those percentages come from? Why are you so strongly attached to your premise considering your irrelevant experience observing New Agers? Are you familiar with the material? What academic authors have you read? What languages have you studied?
I'm not the guy you responded to but in my country, the old religion existed in hiding until the beginning of the 20th century and we are still left with near to nothing because nothing about the religion was written down.
>Where do those percentages come from?
Clearly I made them up, it wasn't a serious post you turboautist LARPer; though it would be nice if you genuinely raised a point and demonstrated successful reconstruction outside of the cultures with written language.
Hahahaha. OK. Someone mentioned Asatru a while back, let's go with the example. Mainstream Asatru is bullshit but there are plenty of good examples of reconstruction going on with Germanic paganism. White Marsh. Axenthof. Runatyr. Oethelland. Keeper of Seasons. Any of the people who contribute to Odroerir belong to reconstructionist groups.
These names won't mean shit to you because you are unresearched, but you don't have to stay that way. Read Simek. Mallory. Pollington. Lincoln. Puhvel. Serith. Ellis Davidson. Adalsteinsson. Enright. Antonson. Gunnell. Hollander. And then come back and we can debate whether reconstruction can work. Right now you don't have the reading to back up your statements: literally, how would you know?
Here is my concise argument: "You can use archaeological, literary, linguistic, and comparative methods to understand the worldviews of ancient peoples."
The worldview is the important part. It does not matter if we know exactly how big the temenos was in Arcadia in 560 BCE if we know it was measured out in proportions based on the cubit length of the priest. Get the worldview and then we can talk.
what pisses me off is when Christians dismiss paganism are just atheists being edgy
REAL paganism, the European religion of the Romans, Greeks, the Norse, Slavs, etc, but also the Egyptian faiths, the Sumerians, and all the way to Asia in India and Mongolia
this is one faith, the Indo European one
it belongs to us, and wanting to re-enact is is not edgy
I'm not attacking Christians, but there are smug and dismissive people (loud voices) who take every chance to be assholes
It's Fucking edgy because it dies, no one dissed African nations because it survived Christianity and Islam.
You are larping, they defended their religion and expanded from the West to Japan and beyond.
>I'm gonna post a pokémon to show how NOT autistic I am!
So let bend that holy books to dogs and make the dog fight with bets, music and sluts!
>>607662 is spot on
It is really a shame tho'. It is indeed ethnic heritage and they are in their right to return to it. But most people into it are absolute idiots with no knowledge of the religion or ideological motives to adhere to them.
It doesn't help that in most cases Christianity has done too good a job when it came to make them disappear
>FUCK CHRISTIANITY, LET'S RETURN TO THE ANCESTRAL FAITH!
>reconstruct it solely based on Christian sources
>And what is this about so much info being lost?
The celts, slavs, scandies and germanics (to a degree) were converted before they started writing books.
Ergo, we know jack shit about them, as we know about other religions from their texts.
How do this change the validity in any way? Christianity is fucking dead where I live, people will look on you strangely and think you're in a cult if you declare yourself being religious, yet that doesn't mean I should go online and think everyone that's Christian is a fucking loonies. Or should I? After all, Christianity is a dead religion.
> Oh but it survived somewhere.
So fucking what, same goes with the pagan religions and their teachings.
Reminder, you will be torn into shreds by demons in a cube in hell alongside Adolf Hitler if you think you can worship pagan "gods"
>in my country, the old religion existed in hiding until the beginning of the 20th century
As a novice historian I am actually interested in this anon, but you are saying strikes me as the old, refuted witch-cult hypothesis applied to Slovenia.
Do you have any sources I can have? How did you know the religion existed until the 20th century if nothing about it was written down?
I am not familiar with this witch hypothesis. I read about the old faith in a book once. It survived in several locations away from major population centres up to the beginning of the first world war. The followers of the old faith kept their rituals a secret and claimed to be Christians in public because of persecution.
I tried looking it up and I found several sources on Wikipedia, but they're all in Slovene so I don't think they'll be much help to you.
I. Pavel Medvešček (1992): Osvatina - poganjski ogenj. Etnolog 2, št. 1
II. Pavel Medvešček, Rafael Podobnik (1992): Skrivnost in svetost kamna: zgodbe o čarnih predmetih in svetih znamenjih na Primorskem. Založništvo tržaškega tiska, Trst.
III. Pavel Medvešček, Rafael Podobnik (2006): Let v lunino senco: pripovedi o starih verovanjih. Taura, Nova Gorica.
IV. Osvatina-poganjski ogenj (documentary)
V. Jelenk-sveta gora starovercev (documentary)
VI. Čop Joža (2006): O Črnem biku ali Čarnem juncu. Studia Mythologica Slavica IX
It's really no use since you'd have to find them somewhere and I doubt they're online.
The Wikipedia article is here: https://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staroverstvo#Slovenija
Okay, I actually remembered now that Studia Mythologica Slavica is online.
Here's the link to the sixth source: http://sms.zrc-sazu.si/pdf/09/SMS_09_Cop.pdf
Here's the link to every edition of Studia Mythologica Slavica: http://sms.zrc-sazu.si/Si/kazalo.html. The articles are in different languages.
Because there are a lot of words in the text that are from dialects and that Google Translate wouldn't understand, let me do a write-up of what the text is about.
The author writes about the mountains, how the locals would pick flowers there and how it all changed with the railroad and tourism. He writes about some rituals performed by the people there. They believed in the holy black bull and cow and believed that the bull was the guardian of the holy mountain lands. The old people seem to have prayed in very old prayers that combined Christian and old beliefs.
No problem. If you have any other questions, I will come back to check on the thread later. I'm not an expert on the topic of Slavic mythology but I know the basics (mostly the traditions I have experienced in my life and also some I have read about).
Those stories were recorded by Christian scribes, who probably changed things and filtered them for a Christian audience. I don't know much about the case in Wales, but for Norse mythology, Snorri framed all of the mythology as fallen Christians worshiping real people.
And knowing stories doesn't mean we know how the religions actually worked. Celtic religion is a great example of this, because Druids were basically the only ones who knew the intricacies of the religion and performed rituals. They didn't leave any records, so we don't know anything about Celtic religion besides the names of some gods, basic stories, and a few guesses.
>most pagans are more interested in having fun than trying to observe a pious lifestyle.
Like the ancient ones, only some of the philosophers cared about morality in a sophisticated way during the ancient world.
The world is largely Christian so no Christianity is not dead. Africa Traditional religions still exist with 100 million people in Africa alone with tens of millions in the Americas and Europe.
European Paganism has been gone for centuries, please just accept reality. You're playing a game using Christian sources centuries after its death. It's not real
>Traditional religions still exist with 100 million people in Africa alone with tens of millions in the Americas and Europe.
>European Paganism has been gone for centuries
You're sending mixed signals, friend.
Jokes aside, as I have written in one of the posts above, old beliefs were still followed in some parts of modern Slovenia up to the first world war. Who knows, some may still follow them.
And even if nobody follows them today, I wouldn't say those beliefs are dead. Christianity (in our case Catholicism) integrated many of the traditions of our ancestors into the religion and many of those old traditions are still followed today.
Neopaganism is a joke, though.