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Mystery History Thread
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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

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File: 300px-Seevölker.jpg (23 KB, 300x153) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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>Sea peoples
>Attacked cities across the Bronze age world around 1000 BCE
>Nobody knows where they came from
>>
inb4 retards saying "THEY WERE CLEARLY [insert ethnic group]" when it's obvious there were different invading waves consisting of various peoples
>>
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>leads the Portuguese faction in the battle that resulted in the worst Portuguese defeat until WW1
>No one knows what happened to him
>Because of his disappearence, the country went tits up.
>People wanted him to come back so much they'd hang around the pier to see if any ship came by with the King.
>this led to the expression "to see ships" for someone who sits there waiting for something that isn't happening.

Where is he, bros?
>>
>>599629
They were clearly Atlanteans
>>
They were clearly Vikings.
>>
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>Longyou caves China
>Chinese man finds a hole; thinks it's a cave
>Wants to drain out the cave
>Begins draining
>It's bigger on the inside
>Places 3 pumps
>17 days later and the "cave" has no water
>Nobody knows who or why it was build
>>
>>599644
Atlanteans ≠ Merpeople
>>
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the Tribe of Dan

aka

the Tuatha de Danann, the Danaoi, the Danes, the Denyen
>>
>>599661
They were clearly Seamen.
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>>599629
They were clearly eternal Anglos.
>>
>>599670
They were clearly Semen
>>
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The history of England between 410 and the 9th century is a complete and total clusterfuck illuminated by mad monks and chroniclers. We know very little about the period at all and everything we do know is based on guesswork, archaeological evidence and brief mentions in the Anglo-Saxon chronicles from centuries later. Reconstructions of the period are fraught with dangers, especially when dealing with the idea of a historical King Arthur.

http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesBritain/BritishMap.htm

I like the look of this, but there's so much to be sceptical of.
>>
>>599726
>>599726
Low countries are even worse in this regard. All we know is that several tribes such as the Canefates, Batavi and Frisii stopped being around with the Frisians emerging and some shit with vikings.
>>
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Who wrote it and what does it say? I have legit lost sleep over this.
>>
>>599739
16th century trolls.
>>
>>599624
so pirates then
>>
>>599637
Died in battle
RIP in peace
f
>>
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Did the eruption kill them or were they outside Pompeii when the Vesuvus exploded?

We will never know for sure.
>>
>>599739
The weird thing about that is that it satisfies modern methods of checking for authenticity, when there would have been little reason or idea to do such at the time.
>>
>>599932
Anon, I don't think that someone hastily buried them together in the midst of the volcanic eruption
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>>599624
The Huns actually. Thanks to the fact that the Romans fucked up their historiography.

We really have no real idea where the main clan came from. Its generally from the Eastern Steppes and the fact that they weren't identified as any of the known Steppe Nomads meant that they were most likely Altaic.

But then with names like "Attila" or "Bleda" they were also hinted to be of Ugric.
>>
>>600191
Huh, I didn't know there were Iron Age Denialists too.
>>
>>599655

that is pretty mysterious
>>
>>599637
you forgot:
>legend forms around his returnal
>"he'll return in a misty morning"
>becomes a figure of far flung hope for the recovery of the decaying Portuguese Empire
>Fernando Pessoa ends up writing some of his best work around this ideal
>>
Parhae

We don't know if they were Koreans or the ancestors of the Jurchens and therefore Manchus or something else related to Korean
>>
>>600191
they were originally a group of migrating Xiongnu who ended up mixing and confederating with other steppe tribes from Eastern Europe and the Caucasus

Prove me wrong faggots
>>
The Jews. Where did they came from originally before arriving to the Promised Land and what eventually became of the lost tribes?
>>
>>600191
>But then with names like "Attila"
I'm pretty sure Attila is supposed to be a title. And it probably has something to do with "father" in a Turkic language, cf. Ataturk, father of Turks.
>>
>>600524
The Xiongnu were BTFO by the Han but for all intents and purposes, stayed in the Steppes. But they just became a bitch-tribe fallen from power.

They were still there in 200's AD, according to Records of teh Three Kingdoms.

Yes there was a westward migration of Altaics by the 300's-400's AD, but we dont know if
1) The Huns were one of them or
2) The Huns were an Ugric tribe pushed by migrating Altaicniggers.
>>
>>599624
From Uranus
>>
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>>599624
They were obviously classical age reapers.
>>
>>600191
For a minute I thought you were trying to say that the seapeople were Huns
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>>600563
>2) The Huns were an Ugric tribe pushed by migrating Altaicniggers.

The descriptions by Jordanes and Priscus strongly imply that they were Mongoloid in appearance. Some Persian chronicles also mention that the White Huns (Hephthalites) differ from regular Huns in that they are not "ugly", when we know that Hephthalites were Iranic and so Caucasoid.
Obviously it's hard to tell with steppe nomad confederations as it's easy for a tribe to change allegiance regardless of its ethnic background, but generally the Huns were Asiatic.
>>
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>Literally called Sea Peoples
>Historians still can't figure out where they came from

fucking spoiler alert it was the sea
>>
>>599739

LARPers
>>
>>599739
current best theory is that it's a heretofore unknown semitic language/dialect written in an invented script (think like how Cyrillic was an invented script)
>>
>>599669
I just googled that
...are you saying im a jew?!
>>
>>600176
I like the theory that it was written by a scribe either as advertisement that he was good at his job, or as something he made up to sell to rich people as an example of an "eastern" scientific book. Both make sense given the historic context.
>>
Eilean Mor Lighthouse and THE FUCKING MELUNGEONS. WE CAN SEQUEL DNA NOW FOR FUCKS SAKE.
Racial isolate groups shouldn't be a mystery anymore.
>>
>>600545
They developed out of the Canaanite culture in the area and eventually formed a religious identity out of the special veneration of Yahweh. The lost tribe stuff is the result of the Babylonian captivity as far as I know. When the priests and other captives came back, the took a different religion back because of their experiences (Babylonian influences, monotheistic, text-based). The locals/former Hebrews hasn't been exposed to that religion and didn't practice it, so the returners stopped considering them Jews as a result. Look at the Samaritans as an example.
>>
>>599655
What is the Bronze Age equivalent of a secret nuclear bunker?
>>
>>601010
>THE FUCKING MELUNGEONS
There were DNA studies a few years ago. They showed ethnically mixed ancestry, but with heavy African, which supports the popular view that they were the decedents of free and escaped slaves mixing with local populations. The only reason there was every an controversy was because of attempts by them try to appear as non-black as possible for more legal rights.
>>
>>600704
they're probably not fish
>>
>>601053
Huh. I hadn't heard that. Time for Google!
I have a huge boner for isolates and 'human cryptids' (for lack of a better term), having been raised with the melonhead/wobblehead legend.
>>
>>599692
At one point, yes.
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>>601010
Eilean Mor Lighthouse

I can see that from my house. They probably all just got swept to sea by some heavy waves. Was a pretty bad storm around then IIRC.
>>
>>601102
I'm sure they were, but it was more the questions surrounding why. Shit's spoopy.

http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofScotland/The-Eilean-Mor-Lighthouse-Mystery/

For anyone wondering.
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>>600704
Interesting.
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>>600645
They were ugly because of ritual self mutilation according to the contemporary sources
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>>601031
There isn't one because they didn't have nuclear armaments back then.
>>
>>601312
Sea people weren't fish
>>
>>601664
None of the sources say they weren't.
>>
>>601675
They were marine mammals just as seals
>>
>>601688
Well, >>601312 looks as if he's a mammal.
>>
>>600524
The Xiongnu myth has been debunked before. From what ive read the most plausible explanation is that they came from modern day Kazakhstan.
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>>601697
But it's half fish
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>>601715
But the other half is mammal.
>>
>>601707
>>601707
who migrated from the Xiongu
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>>599669
I've heard that's a rather weak connection. But they say the Peleset became the Phillistines who became the Palestinians.

Danaoi =/= tribe of Dan though.
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>>601378
>implying
>>
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>>599624
Genghis Khan is a mystery when you think about how big of a historical figure he really was. He conquered huge territories in the Middle East and China, invading areas that were known to be excellent record keepers.

But we have no idea what he looked like, what year he was born, what year he died, how he died or where he was buried. We don't even have that many quotes from him besides the "flail of god" letter.

All we have is some random Muslim chronicler who said that it was weird Kublai didn't have his father's red hair, and a source that said he had "cat-like eyes".
There's a bunch of stories that say he died from falling off a horse, a sickness, poisoned, etc.

For a guy who accomplished as much as he did, you'd think you'd know more about the man himself.
>>
>>601798
>Kublai didn't have his father's red hair,
*Grandfather's. Had a brain fart.
>>
>9/11
jet fuel still can't melt the steal beams and concrete
>>
To be another captain obvious, the Israelites as a whole civilization. Where they came from, and where they went.

As in for, the country of Israel, not Judah.

The assyrians PROBABLY outbred them, but it is inconclusive if this was the case or if they were sold into slavery externally in the empire.
>>
>>601802
I always come across 9 11 truthers and if the topic ever comes up, I always mention this facetiously. The person always thinks I am concurring with them.

I kind of doubt the official story but I won't go down the rabbit hole because I'll start to call Cheney a reptile and talk about ancient aliens buildig the pyramids eventually.
>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yonaguni_Monument

私 た ち

>>
>>601863
It's actually much more mundane than that. If you ever decide to look into it, and have five hours to spare, watch link related.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DOnAn_PX6M
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>>599739
I like the semi-classical theory that it is a botanical catalog for both medicinal herbs and psychoactives that was written in a code for a cabal of pseudo-doctors.
>>
>>599726
le missing centuries theory
>>
>>601863
get a load of this pussy
>>
>>601796
>asteroids cannot contain radiation or create what appears to be nuclear explosions
>it can only be nuclear weapons
Okay, anon.
>>
You know; Aegeans and Asians aren't the same thing.
>>
>>601798
The red hair and cat's eyes were probably symbolic and made to represent a character which matched his legacy.
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>>603355
By cat's eyes maybe they meant the asiatic epicanthic folds?
>>
Where does Japanese language come from?
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>>603355
You know many mongolians and siberians are actually blonde/red haired
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>>604023
chinese, despite what weebsters might want you to think
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>>604070
>many

That's a stretch. They exist but they're anomalous rather than common.
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>>599624
they where probably nuragic
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>>604123
See >>599629
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>>604129
>PROBABLY

also existed at the same time as most of the accounts are made
islanders and renowned sailors
many of their statues of soldiers and boats are similar to other depictions of the sea people
many greek, egyptian etc. goods have been found in nuragic settlements

but yeah its most likely a umbrella term for sea raiders but that dosent mean that a single civilization wasent accountable for a majority of the raids
>>
>>604218
No. Nuragic people were probably a part of the migratory wave but constituted just a fraction of it. There were definitely Minoans, Cycladeans and Anatolians in it too.
>>
>>599739
Scribes and monks where known for writting dumb shit in manuscripts on purpose out of sheer boredom

Let's just say one of them decided he liked it a little too much
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>>604465
And for making silly illustrations
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>>604465
The problem is that the frequency of characters perfectly matches what you'd expect from an actual language, rather than random scrawlings or a cipher.

It's basically accepted among cryptographers that the text represents a real language, written down straight-forwardly, in its own script. Of course, they've been unable to translate it as anything we know of, but I've seen a pretty good argument made for it being a Semitic or Afro-Asiatic language, based on transliterations of the horological charts and what have been identified as likely to be the major botanical words. By that theory, the script would be a partial abjad that used capitalization and used separate characters to show a sort of umlaut.
>>
>>604856
Perhaps we are facing a medieval Tolkien.
>>
>It takes 20 years of non-stop writing plus time for making large illustrations
>life expectancy was 30 at that time
>Announced one year before it was published
>Said to be written by one single monk
..he managed to finish it because "the devil helped him". That's why it's called "Satan's bible".
>>
>>605391

>life expectancy of 30 years

Oh look, it's this meme again
>>
>>599637
>plump pale pasty virgin 24 year old ginger boi charges straight into 100000 sexually repressed african muslims
>>
>>605407
>written in early 13th century
>The average life expectancy for a male child born in the UK between 1276 and 1300 was 31.3 years.
The book wasn't written in Britain, but still.
http://history.stackexchange.com/questions/648/what-was-the-life-expectancy-in-medieval-britain
Second source confirms
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy
>>
>>599629
They were clearly gaymanoids.
>>
>>605475
>born
Child mortality was through the fucking roof back then, people who survived childhood didn't just keel over at thirty, they lived normal life spans, says medical advances.
>>
What happened to the Roanoke Colony?
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>>605391
Average life expectancy was 30 but imagine isolated monk living in monastery and writing it whole the time.

He hardly got any illness from other people, he didn't work physically(hence accidents etc. weren't really likely occurrence for him), he never got into fight when drunk.

He could pull it off.
>>
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they were vikings. with a time machine. and that's fukken awesome.
>>
>>605512

They moved to nearby Croatoan Island, hence the "mysterious" carving of "Croatoan" onto a tree trunk.

I remember reading about that as a kid and every damn account mentioned "The mysteeeeerious word 'Croatoan' was mysteeeeeriously carved into a tree-trunk, to this day scienticians and historogians puzzle over what it could mean blah blah". Fucking liars, man.
>>
>>605485
I can consider that a valid argument. But what would be correct then: 50-60 maybe?
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>>605563
50-something.

you have to consider this >>605538
>>
>>605563
>says
Should be sans.

Anyways, somebody spot me here, didn't the Greeks have laws saying that people over 65 didn't need to fight in case of war? It was common enough for such rules to be enacted, obviously.
I'd say, and this is completely out of my ass, 40-50ish for peasants and 50-70 for well off citizens.
>>
>>605543
Also, the Lumbee tribe from the area, who had white-looking members when other settlers showed up, has always claimed to be descended from the Roanoke colony, and the genetic evidence backs their claim up.It was never really a mystery.
>>
>>599629
this desu senpai
>>
>>606532
Just like most "mysteries". Especially any that have ever been mentioned on TV.
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>>605391
as a medieval calligrapher: this book still amazes me.
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>>604075
Genghis Khan was pretty anomalous too when you think about it m8.
>>
>>607827
Yeah, that's pretty much true. It's mostly just people on TV on shit websites selling drama. Most of these kinds of stereotypical mysteries were either solved a long time ago, or we can make a pretty good guess about them. People just don't like doing research.
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>>607914
Its more than that. People just don't like knowing. They want their to be mysteries, so they willingly ignore facts or even reason, and purposefully choose to believe in something "unknown".
>>
>>601003
It's the stormfag equivalent of "we wus kings/fayrows/hebroos"
>>
>>604876
Another tripfag on this board, great
>>
>>604074
Despite some common alphabet (kanji), there is not much common between Japanese and Chinese.
>>
>>599624

Pretty obvious they were the last wave of atlantians that migrated from their islands
>>
>>608853
Ignore tripfags entirely (including complaining about them) and they usually go away.
>>
>>605539
>vikings with time machine
>iron weapons and armor that is thousands of years ahead of the time
>still manage to get beaten back to sea

i can believe it
>>
>>606532
leemayo. I'm from the area and was always autistic about NC history. The Lumbee aren't a tribe and aren't native americans. They're creoles descended from former slaves who mixed with an already mixed population of settlers/natives. Also they're the epitome of human trash.
>>
>>609237
>The Lumbee aren't a tribe and aren't native americans.

There's more to the "existence" of tribes than federal recognition. Seriously, look into the recognition process. Recognition can be denied for completely arbitrary things, and when you combine that with the political issues that come with recognition, as well as problems that come from popular conceptions of authenticity, it's a pretty messed up system.

Also, they're not the only ones that claim ancestry from the Roanoke settlers, they're just the ones who brought it up most through history.
>>
>>608936
It's no alphabet m80
>>
>>600545
I know it tends to be debunked, but I actually find the idea of Jews coming from the Hyksos fascinating.
>>
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we haven't mentioned Tamam Shud yet, have we?

because Tamam Shud
>>
>>599726
are you serious? The archaeological evidence for the middle Saxon period is extensive and we are filling in most of the gaps for the immediate post-Roman period.
Anyone who propagates this crap clearly hasn't actually studied the period in any detail.
>>
>>599739
What if it's Gothic script surviving well into the renaissance?
>>
>>609888
I unironically believe a predominant khazar origin for Ashkenazim

The population explosion+ questionable y DNA haplogroup are undeniable
>>
>>600191

Based on various things about them, I always imagined that the Huns were a bastardised Turkic/Mongolic people who migrated West.
>>
>>611984
I think that's what the linguistic evidence points to as well. Known Hunnic names seem to be similar to Turkic and Mongolic names/words.
>>
>>599624
There is an island people around India or Oceania or some place like that. They are primitive and have remained so since first being documented. Whenever a film crew or aid organization gets too close the natives chimp out and bombard them with arrows. The Indian government has quarantined the area. I'm surprised more people don't know about this.
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>>600545
They came from hell.
>>
>>603981
>>603355
It's actually not terribly uncommon for Steppe people to have green eyes so that's what I figured it meant. There was so much gene mixing from rape on the steppe from Eastern Europe to China that I wouldn't be shocked about any traits occurring in any steppe nomad.

Rashid Al Din gives us the red hair/cat-like eyes description and he was in the court of the Ilkhanate.
>>
>>612108
Sentinel Island fyi
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>>612108
I don't know why but their agressiveness pisses me off and I've always wished a stronger nation just would go and set a small example on them so they chill the fuck out
>>
>>605462
>plump pale pasty virgin 24 year old ginger
>mfw this exactly me
Am I the long awaited savior of poortugal?
>>
>>614081
Considering what the British did around the area, they probably weren't always so isolated for thousands and thousands of years like people claim, especially since their language is related to other islanders' nearby. A Brit ship probably just showed up and fucked their shit up, and afterwards they ingrained the tradition of "if anyone comes around from the ocean fuck them up IMMEDIATELY" into their culture.
>>
>>609495
It also doesn't hurt that the Lumbee actively fight recognition as a tribe because of the complete and total fuck-story that is the BIA
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>>599655
Maybe a water tank.
>>
>>617568
To fucking kek
>>
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>>599624

"Culturally and linguistically, the Yenisei Kirghiz were Turkic. The Kirghiz were described in Tang Dynasty texts as having primarily Caucasian features, with some having East Asian features.[14] According to the Tang Huiyao (961 CE) article on Jiegu (the Kirghiz), which very likely comes from the Xu Huiyao that Yang Shaofu and others completed in 852, citing Ge Jiayun, who was the Protector General of Anxi:[14]

During the reign period of Kaiyuan of [emperor] Xuanzong, Ge Jiayun, composed A Record of the Western Regions, in which he said "the people of the Jiankun state all have red hair and green eyes. The ones with dark eyes were descendants of Li Ling.

It further mentioned that the name "Xiajiasi", by which the Kirghiz were then known, was what the Uyghurs called them and had the meaning "yellow head and red face"

What the FUCK was even going on in Siberia back in the day? Did caucasians go north west? If so, why weren't there any found towards the modern day? Did ALL of them migrate away or intermix? It's fucking weird.

Also, what's up with the red hair thing in general? There are random communities in the middle of Siberia filled with people with red hair. I used to think that was only a celtic thing. What the fuck?
>>
>>617655
Maybe these guys.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharians
>>
>>617666
Tocharians and a couple of other early Indo-European groups culturally enriched that entire region of Asia long ago. Even Mongols have measurable European-like admixture.
>>611013
Soviet agent--the Australian feds basically said it without saying it.
>>
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>>617655
>>617930
>Tocharians and a couple of other early Indo-European groups culturally enriched that entire region of Asia long ago
>Culturally enriched.
Nope.jpg. Indo-Iranians and whoever the Tocharians were were the natives of that bit of Central Asia.

Its the Altaics that culturally enriched them. Hence that fact that some Central Asians of the Altaic Language group look Iranic/Have red/blonde hair.

That said, Imperial Chinese found red hair disgusting. One for reasons unknown, another for the fact that this feature can be found in Indo-Iranian Steppe Niggers who raided the western borders/kingdoms of Zhou/Warring States China. Why they didn't find blonde as disgusting I have no idea.

While today the Chinese do not think red hair is disgusting, the prejorative survives. The slur for white people in China is "Hongmao" or in the South, "Angmo." Meaning "Red Hair." A shortened form of the old term "Hongmaofan" (Red Haired Barbarian.)
>>
>>611060
Archaeology doesn't give enough information to dispute anything i've said. Only mad fuckers would think otherwise. Knowing the styling of a pottery shard or the distance between foundations based on rotted wood does not tell us as much about a 200 year old period as you might think.

The post-Roman period is not that well documented, if you could point me to anything substantive and authoritative i'd be happy though.
>>
>>605391
random thought: Daesh would destroy this treasure.
>>
>>618005

>Daesh
>>
>>617984
>Knowing the styling of a pottery shard or the distance between foundations based on rotted wood does not tell us as much about a 200 year old period as you might think.
It's pretty clear you have no fucking clue how archaeology works. It's not limited to material culture, and nor is it limited to face-value interpretations like you seem to think. You can find out an awful lot more from the archaeological record than building foundations and pottery typologies.
>if you could point me to anything substantive and authoritative i'd be happy though
The Anglo-Saxon World by Higham and Ryan is recent and a very good overview. It's a field that is actually undergoing a huge expansion in terms of literature, even the immediate post-Roman period is really benefiting from the developments in archaeological science, especially soil micromorphology.
>>
>>599739
Cultists of some Elder God.
>>
>>600547
"ata" more accurately means "ancestor" in Turkish, and Attila is a name in use even today.
>>
>>599932

I like imagine they were the Harold and Kumar of their day.
>>
Is tank man dead?
>>
Who was Jack the ripper?
Was he spring-heeled jack?
>>
>>599629
THEY WERE CLEARLY jews
>>
Who built the sphinx and when
>>
>>618007
>ISIL
>>
>>617961
>Nope.jpg. Indo-Iranians and whoever the Tocharians were were the natives of that bit of Central Asia.
Not really, they just pushed out and absorbed whoever it was that was there before them, who pushed out and absorbed whoever was there before them, who pushed out... such is the history of Central Asia.
>>
What was the significance of the symbols on the Pictish symbol stones?
>>
>>620965
>OUGHA BOUGHA WHAR DEY ROMANO-BRITISH WIMMIN AT?
>>
>>620965
>>
>>619840
>tfw "Ata" means father in Turkish and "Tata" means father in Polish.
>>
>>620704
>>618007
Oh my god. There's two new groups there now!?!? I thought just ISIS was bad enough!
>>
>>604075

The Scythians/Sarmatians were said to have red hair and green eyes, and they were active as far east as the Ordos. Mongols/Turkic peoples who have red hair and blue/green eyes must have descent from Caucasoid Iranian nomads.
>>
>>611942

If Ashkenazim are primarily descended from Khazars then they'd look a lot more Central Asian rather than Mediterranean. DNA tests show that Ashkenazim have significant eastern Mediterranean DNA and are closer to other Jews or Italians than anyone else.
>>
>>599739
The Daedric Prince Hermora did, duh
>>
>>599624
I recently read a book that the sea peoples where greeks who were migrating away from invading tribes from the north.
>>
>>623109
What book was this and would you recommend it? Been trying to find one about the sea peoples
Thread replies: 159
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