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Argentine history
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I need book recommendations, /his/. Don't go easy on me, I'm ready. Can you do it?

> I can read Spanish at a proficient level
> The target is an in-depth exploration of the history of the country, including post-Peron politics and the rise of Kirchnerism
> Even though Argentina gets my attention, I'm interested in South America in general when learning about San Martin and his campaigns for independence
> Falklands/Malvinas war gets special attention
>>
>>579956
these
politics and policy in contemporary argentina:
http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199756223/obo-9780199756223-0064.xml?rskey=z0nEqJ&result=3&q=argentina#firstMatch

Argentina in the Era of Mass Immigration
http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199766581/obo-9780199766581-0163.xml?rskey=z0nEqJ&result=5&q=argentina#firstMatch

Perón and Peronism
http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199766581/obo-9780199766581-0041.xml?rskey=z0nEqJ&result=8&q=argentina#firstMatch

Juan Manuel de Rosas
http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199766581/obo-9780199766581-0069.xml?rskey=z0nEqJ&result=20&q=argentina#firstMatch
>>
>>580660
Thanks anon. The site isn't mobile friendly so I'll check those links as soon as I can.
Books about independence wars led by San Martin are still missing if I'm not mistaken, but I'll try to find them there too when I get a chance.

Anyone has specific book recommendations?
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>>581137
Sup
>>
What about that stupid war over the islands?
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>>579956
one day Spaniards or Portugueseairds or one of those Moor looking fucks got lost and made some shitty community with the Natives.

Then some nazis moved there and interbred with the Native/Chorizo monkeys giving their off spring delusions of grandeur

Argies decided to invade the UK but because they where too lazy to row that far/couldn't work an internal combustion engine they ran into a problem

Luckily because Britain has invaded everywhere, some shitty rocks where flying the Union Flag a stones throw from Argentina

Unfortunately Britain kicked fuck out of the Argies and sunk their boats

Not being white, the Argies can't swim and all subsequently drowned

the end
or is it?
>>
>>581731
/his/, everyone
>>
>>579956
In my experience all the books about my country were made up, i couldn't find 2 that said the same thing about an specific event not even the ones i've read in college

Don't trust what any says fully

Also mostly everything that has happened through out its history was a consequence of the actuate of foreigners so always keep that in mind.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKkcTpCur7g
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>>581881
May I ask what are you studying and where? Your answer was something I didn't expect and now I'm wondering why the fuck did I take an interest in the history of Argentina.
What works did you read? Maybe they're listed in the reading list provided by anon above.

>>581890
That looks promising. I'm getting drunk and watching it tonight. Thanks man.
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>>581767
>English nationalist
>representative of /his/
Kek, /his/ hates Anglo-Saxons almost as much as it hates Jews
>>
>>579956
Breve historia contemporánea de la Argentina by Romero as a starter if you've got no idea what you're getting into.There's an english version somewhere.
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>>582011
I'll give it a look. Thanks anon.
>>
>>581128
Yes, here it is:
Latin American Independence
http://pastebin.com/Jn4L6wvw

as I happens I have access to the full articles from the Latin American page of Oxford bibliographies:

Argentina in the Era of Mass Immigration:
http://pastebin.com/D52Suy4q

Peron and Peronism:
http://pastebin.com/ezVRHj8g

Juan Manuel de Rosas
http://pastebin.com/Y6rTSpqk
>>
I would like to know about our white friends at the southern end of the continent, if you want i can give you some books on the history of Colombia.
>>
>>583425
Nice man. Appreciated.

>>584089
Right now I'm not interested in an in-depth study of Colombia but I'd definitely welcome some books that tackle your history from a general point of view. I didn't have the time to check >>583425 link on independence yet so I don't know if it's already covered, but I'm certainly interested in that period of Colombian history, so drop your suggestions anon.
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>>584258
Read David Bushnell's Colombia: Una nación a pesar de sí misma, it has some good information about the economics of our country and the fact that it shows that the history of the independence is horribly idealized.
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>>584277
Noted. What about your war on drugs? There must be interesting literature there. Do you know of any non-biased source?
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>>584293
If you want to find an unbiased source, you will not find nothing in here, the populace loves the idea of the drug lord and it's rise to power and the others hate them in a point that doesn't make justice on the fact that drug trading is still one of the only ways in which a farmer can get some money for his family, the one that i think that can give a good portrayal of the war, even if not unbiased would be German Castro Caicedo, who is a journalist that really liked to make portrayals of the shit the war did on people, one of his best books is one based on the occupation of the justice palace by the m-19, that was really fucking good,but now he just does books full of shit.
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>>584319
That's what I was afraid of. Maybe sources from outsiders that studied the topic are the most reliables, but I didn't do any research and I wonder if someone that's not a Colombian can really get involved enough to produce an extensive and well researched study about this topic.
I was aware of those two groups of people and I can't say I don't understand one or the other.
What's your personal opinion on the ear on drugs in Colombia?
Nevertheless, I'll check that book.
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>>584355
You can find drugs everywhere, but seeing it's effects are harder if you were not displaced by the violence or was a member of the guerrillas, you can live a good chunk of your life without seeing violence or drugs in here, i think that the war is really exaggerated, i haven't even seen cocaine once(altough some friends do it sometimes), the real issue is that it's a pretext for shoving us more taxes, more reasons to support the far right who just wants mindless violence, and even if in the end we can make our country a better place without drugs it can be worth it, but for me, seeing how south shit went from the 80s, it still hasn't been worth it.

About the two groups, the real shit about them is that they are just fanatics, either you have a photo of pablo escobar at the side of jesus(in some places of Medellin), or you agree that the military can make all the shit they want, including taking peasants and retarded people to kill them in order to get a bonus pay for killing insurgents, i just don't want to see people killing themselves for shit and giggles in our country that can be the fucking tropical paradise if people just fucking stopped finding reasons to kill each other, it's just like if we were the southern slavs of the continent.
>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guayaquil_Conference

Interesting read, ending of San Martín military campaing after meeting Simón Bolívar
>>
>>584403
Mexico is having a really bad time. Peru is the king of drugs now and it only gets worse if I'm not mistaken. Latin America in general is in crisis.
Argentina right now is completely divided, not at a Dreyfus level, but enough to think in the possibility of the country exploding like it did in 2001. Nisman's case (the lawyer assassinated that was going against the then president Cristina Kirchner regarding the cover up of Iran's involvement in the terrorist attack to the AMIA) is still going strong. The Kirchner reign ended after a long time in power and was replaced by someone as shady as the previous presidents or even worse. A lot of people voted for him out of spite for Cristina Kirchner. The new government is firing kirchnerists that were sucking the blood out of the country giving nothing in exchange but a lot of innocent ones are losing their jobs because of this.
I have friends there and that's the reason why I took an interest on its history.
>>
>>584491
Well, apparently the only country that is doing better right now is Ecuador, but here in Colombia even if we are entering another recession, we are finally on the last peace talks to end an almost 60 years old civil war, and the people are getting a little bit more conscious about politics,falling back on voth the far left and right, i can't believe that i may be able to see my country doing shit.

And regarding Argentina... it has gone to shit again, the economy there is a clusterfuck and politics fuck things even more, but i think that they can get up again, our continent has survived worse times than this.

Also, how can you vote for a candidate if not out of spite? how the fuck does that even work?
>>
>>584319
Shut the fuck up, the only narcoloving pieces of shit are in Medellin
>>
>>584515
>>584515
Fuck no, Caracol loves narcosoaps, and here in bogota i have found a lot of people that romanticize drug trade, but i agree that it is an urban phenomenon.
>>
>>584514
It's really sad thinking of people voting Macri to get rid of Kirchner. The guy was with Menem, a fucker that sold half the country, but they were just tired of kirchnerism and I understand that, even though it wasn't a black or white situation and they did some good things, they really fucked up too. Big time.
The economy is a complete disaster, the peso is devaluated as fuck and the thing about this is that they're angry. They really are. And they're a passionate people.
I really hope nothing big happens and everyone's predictions about the outcome of the new government (privatization, cuts to education, a lower an middle class stomping policy and so on) are wrong.
They're an amazing people but what they call the 'viveza criolla', the opportunist, phoney 'porteño' (resident of the Autonomous City of Buenos Aires) eclipses other countries idea of the average Argentinian citizen and the way they are. A lot of them don't give a fuck about Falklands and the whole 'Las Malvinas son Argentinas' shit that usually gets so much attention and take the war for what it was, mourn their dead and that's it.
It really is an interesting and particular case. If you talk about Argentina a century ago and make a comparison with the country at the turn of the millennium, you can have an idea of how much shit they've gone through.
>>
>>584514
>>584606
Oh, and I didn't say anything about what you mention about the end of a civil war because I'm ignorant of the history and general status of your country for the most part. Colombia always felt so far away to me.
>>
>>584606
>The guy was with Menem
first of: macri was never with menem (maybe his father was a little but the relationship between both of them has been shit for decades), during menem's time, he was vicepresident in SEVEL a joint-venture created by fiat to promote latinamerican automotors industry that was even denunced by the national customs claiming autoparts contraband.
second: Scioli, the other candidate with chances to win, actually was with menem, he was a PJ deputy (some people need to remember that menem was from the PJ) and that was thanks to menem, he put him in politics in the first place.
>>
>>581941
i thought /pol/ hated jews
>>
>>584986
That is correct, I was mistaken about Macri and Menem. I'm aware of Scioli's background though and I have friends living in Buenos Aires province so I have an idea of the kind of politician Scioli, although they say Vidal is no better.
I assume you're from Argentina. I've read some backgrounds from the ministers appointed by Macri and it really is a joke.
One doubt I have is how much of the FPV is still in the government? I understand there's a lot of people left and they really hate each other. How is this supposed to work? And to clarify I'm talking about what seemed to transpire from that so called debate that they had. It's obvious that both candidates were extremely incompetent but they really appeared to be focused on attacking the other persona rather than an idea. I cringed the whole time when I saw it.
If I understand correctly, citizens from each party behave in the same way and every social network is filled with direct attacks an insults to the other and even claims of coming back from the FPV side. How likely is this? What's the general mood in your opinion and where do you live?
>>
>>585082
>how much of the FPV is still in the government?
i dont know if you mean like in province tier goverment or national tier goverment.
if you mean province, remember that the elections were almost half and half (48,7 vs 51,3) and the country is the same. all the middle belt of the country had PRO majority and the northen and sounther belt had FPV majority (except for salta), it's pretty much the same talking about governorse, northen and sourthen belts, still have FPV (or other peronist party, some peronists are deataching from the FPV) governors and, as expected, same party ministers inside these provinces.
national tier talking, they are slowly taking all the chairs. argentine airlines' director, Martin Recalde, was taken out of his spot in the first day of Macri's goverment. Martin Sabatella, AFSCA's director, was intervened trhee weeks into Macri's goverment, and fought to keep his job, i'm not very sure of his situation but, as far as i know, he is unemployed by now. meanwhile, YPF still has his old director, Miguel Galuccio, wich was appointed by CFK in 2012, with how the oil situation is going on, i'm sure it's a matter of weeks before he is unemployed too. if there are more (important) FPV militants still in their old jobs, i'm not aware.
>both candidates were extremely incompetent but they really appeared to be focused on attacking the other persona rather than an idea. I cringed the whole time when I saw it.
yes, that wasn't very good but i noted that Macri centred in saying all the wrong thing CFK did in the last eight years and how Scioli would just keep that working like that. meanwhile, Scioli would respond saying he wasn't CFK and stopped being part of that, but said that the things with CFK were great and he was part of it, so Scioli was very inconsistent with itself.
>>
>>585082
continued from >>585233

>If I understand correctly, citizens from each party behave in the same way and every social network is filled with direct attacks an insults to the other
doesn't that happens all the time everywhere people from two sides are fighting over?

>coming back from the FPV side. How likely is this?
i highly doubt the FPV will come back, at least not as strong as it was. FPV stopped being peronism in 2007 and some political leaders from the FPV confessed they realised that at the time when Scioli lost the election, then a lot of them drifted away from the FPV. Sergio Massa was one of the few that drifted away way before the elections, i'm still not sure if he honestly did that for ideological reasons or becose he tought he could get to be president. True peronism (or at least another branch of false peronism or cheap populism) will come back for sure, peronism always comes back and untill we realise peronism is the cancer of argentina, it will keep coming back. if 2019's elections bring peronism back, i belive it will. it has been like a century since the last not peronist constitutional president finished his mandate, so if Macri reaches december 2019 without being forced to renounce or being couped he will make history anyway.
>What's the general mood in your opinion and where do you live?
well, i live in CABA, wich is where macri governed before, and its a very pro-PRO (stupid party name). so people here are pretty happy with him. but in the social networks and anti-PRO tv i notice that those who voted for Scioli, claim that all the bad things that happened are caused for Macri's goverment, even things that were happening before he was even elected.
>>
>>585082
continued from >>585233
i find it loudicrous. some claim that macri devaluated the peso as fuck becose it went from 9,8 pesos in december to 13,4 in january. i understand this is wired for the rest of the world but here in argentina, we had different parallel dollars (some illegal). we had the official dollar, wich was a number settled by the state to reduce the calculated inflation but to buy dollars at 9,8 you had to (after being allowed to even buy dollars at any price wich had to bee a percentage of your official sallary and even haveing all the papers in order you sometimes could not buy dollars at all) buy the dollars and leave them in the bank for a year without being able to spend it in all that time, and with an inflation of 30% or so and the low confidence in argentine banks no one wanted that. if you wanted to buy dollars and have them on your pockets you had to buy them at 14. there was also the blue dollar, an illegal dollar you had to buy from "coves" and if the goverment discovered you did that you would have those dollars confiscated, fined and also the AFIP would carry a research on your finances to find out how many times you did that and punish you, that dollar was around 17-18. there were other dollars that few people understand how to get and you were only allowed to spend it on special things.
the thing is that they claim Macri devaluated the peso for takeing it from 9,8 (or 14 is you wanted it away from the bank) with few people being able to even buy and when you were able to buy you could only buy a small amount, to 13,4 with anyone able to buy it and buying as much as you wish (actually there is a 2 millon dollars cap. but who the fuck can buy that?)
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