>>574661 I am Byzantine Catholic and have been seriously investigating Orthodoxy lately. I am tired of the Pope and people being so cucked under Catholicism. I also greatly admire the tradition of Orthodoxy. Are there really that many major ideological differences between the two?
>>574733 I've never heard this. I was Baptised into a Byzantine Catholic Church and received all sacraments through the Byzantine church. I moved and have gone to a Roman Catholic Church ever since. Can you elaborate more?
>>574748 depends on the church, most don't care. I'll warn you upfront, the lack of respect for intellectualism, even downright disdain for it, by their theologians is really making me question conversion. Every book the local priest gives me is about some monk, living a generic monk life, with the same ideas as every other monk, and then I'm expected to learn something new. I never do. It's just monks hating on the learned, saying the only true way to find God is to pray the Jesus Prayer and never sleep, reject yourself entirely, remember pride is the root of all sin, and do physical combat with demons. I'm somewhat disappointed.
>>574830 maybe I should rephrase, it would be presided by the Bishop of Rome, first among equals and whatnot. Kinda like the Speaker of the House in the American Congress.
>what if he can't send one? They weren't all to common for a reason. The Orthodox are slow as fuck when it comes to reaction time, they been trying to organize a pan-orthodox council for 100~ years now, and just this year are holding it.
>>574767 I've heard Orthodoxy is much less concerned about science and logic and teaches to not be concerned with such things in relation to the religon. Are you a Roman Catholic who was looking to convert?
>>574748 Most of the conservative clergy deny them the name of Churches, instead considering them irregular communities that should be under the jurisdiction of an Orthodox Church, they actively called for their abolition and try to force them to abandon their respective rites and adopt the Roman Rite
>>574843 Well, it's to a point acceptable to forego logic, but several books I've read claim rationality is bad all together. I came into Christianity through rational thought, and every time it's brought up, it's not seen as genuine for Orthodoxy. A lot of Orthodox teachings I've read are cult-like in ways. I know it's biblical that a learned man knows nothing and an unlearned man can know everything, but to some point I imagine that the quote applied more to the Pharisees than anything. I can't stand the idea of "don't think about it, just accept it no matter what", and the theology is filled with that. I can understand it for the Holy Trinity, it is beyond us, and the Will of God, and such concepts, but when you apply it to the whole of the universe and all Creation, I feel you are missing out on seeing God's glory in a completely different way. The idea, to me, that from the tiniest particles of creation, to the whole of creation, just works, in any sense, for any reason, is glorying God. To tell me not to study this to be more awestruck just bugs me. Another thing really eating away at me is how the priest wants to re-baptize me Orthodox, despite already being baptized.. Maybe I am reading the wrong things... Liturgy is amazing, the respect in Church is beyond what I see at most other churches, historically I see them in the right on the Schism, but I can't get around the Theology. To answer your question, I'm a late in life convert, baptized Catholic, though.
>>574880 It was during a meeting with the Israeli PM and the Head of of the Palestinian Authority and it didn't take place in a church or any other religious Christian facility. There are museums and stuff in the Vatican were Japanese Shintos take pictures of Christian art, do you think those museums are sacred space? No, they are museums. Who cares if the Koran was recited in some random office.
>>574935 True, but Pope Francis has been very liberal in comparison to previous Popes. Especially when it has come to immigrants. He talks to much of what we have to do in terms of us changing in order to accommodate them. I don't think we should be cold hearted towards immigrants but I don't think we should have to waiver in our philosophies or culture.
>>575030 I don't know right now, honestly. I need to talk to the priest, but the parish meeting was last sunday and couldn't get my thoughts to him. I honestly don't know what I'd do if not. I need an apostolic church, and I still have all my problems with Catholicism (admittedly, if the Ordinary Form of Mass didn't exist, I would have only looked at Orthodoxy as an intrigue), the Coptics, and Orientals as a whole I'd imagine would be worse in this aspect than Eastern Orthodoxy, with even less works in English and less Churches in my country. I'm still thinking things out, by all means I think Orthodoxy is great, but my starry eyed notions of it faded and now I have to be an adult about this, sit down and contemplate in prayer and have dialog. I'm not looking for something to make me feel good, I'm looking for the One, True Church. Pray the Schism ends, brother.
>>575108 In a childish logic, I suppose. If you have Pentarchy, and 1 leaves the other 4, why would the 1 who left be right over the 4 who stayed? Also, I agree entirely with Catholics on the Filioque, but agree with the Orthodox on how the Pope should have called a council to add it to the creed, as per the rules. Most the other minor stuff in the Schism is outside my care, honestly.
>>575142 I don't understand why though. Are they literally just mad because they decided to align with Rome? And it's funny because I went to Roman Catholic school even though I'm technically Byzantine and no one knew what Byzantine Catholic even was.. I remember when we had confirmation in 8th grade everyone was confused as to why I wasn't participating.
>>575129 Well, first of all, majority doesnt make right
Secondly, the Pentarchy is a purely Byzantine concept. Most of the Popes (not just the Roman ones) rejected the claims of other Patriarchates besides Rome, Alexandria and Antioch for a long time before they were recognized as such. The formation of the Patriarchate of Constantinople and the Jerusalem Patriarchate was seen as a illegitimate by most of the other Patriarchs.
Finally, given how by the time of the schism most of the Eastern Patriarchs were obviously influenced by Byzantine Christianity and the sucession of the Greek Patriarchs pf Alexandria and Antioch is pretty dubious, why should it count as a 4 against 1 rather than a 1 against 1?
>>575246 As I said, I have a childish logic about it. Not truly a rational way to see it, but my own way. I kinda wish we could find a compromise of systems where the liturgical method and established theology won't change be altered, but allow additions to clarify them. I think a lot of people are in my boat, Vatican II, while not heresy (in the strictest sense), was a massive mistake. If I was still naive, I would have said it opened the door for laypeople to believe heresy without correction, but it seems most laypeople don't understand their faith accurately anyways. I've found those who believe in the demiurge in the Orthodox church, and many many people who believe the "current year" trend of heresy in Catholicism. I guess my main issue all stemmed from my old Catholic Priest being the biggest modernist I've ever met in my life.
>>575288 yeah sure, i think the issue is that a lot is being done in "the spirit of Vatican II" rather than interpreting the council in light of the ongoing tradition of the Church. Of course most of the changes werent wise, but theyre not a big deal considering they arent permanent (as in the new mass, etc)
And it is true that you cant expect most the laity to be pretty knowledgeable in their faith (that's why most didnt care about Henry VIII being the new head of the Church, or about the Soviets forcing Catholics to become Orthodox, they didnt saw any difference whatsoever). But still, one should still make an effort to make the laity understand it.
Also, I'm completely sorry about the bad experience you had with a priest, but I dont think one bad experience should leave a mark on your view of the Church. Incompetent clergy have always existed, especially in a modern secular post "Enlightenment" world.
All in all, I wish you my best and hope you find what youre looking for
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