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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

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>>574661

How do I become religious?
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Hey Orthodox, what makes a council an Ecumenical Council?
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>>574700
all the bishops/representatives of the bishops are there, must be called by the Bishop of Rome. since the Bishop of Rome isn't Orthodox, no ecumenical councils can happen.
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>>574661
I am Byzantine Catholic and have been seriously investigating Orthodoxy lately. I am tired of the Pope and people being so cucked under Catholicism. I also greatly admire the tradition of Orthodoxy. Are there really that many major ideological differences between the two?
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>>574719
So if Bishop Tim from the middle of nowhere breaks a leg and cant go, nothing happens?

Also, doesnt this criteria deny Nicaea of it's Ecumenical Character?
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>>574728
>Are there really that many major ideological differences between the two?
Sure, there's the fact that the Orthodox have no respect of Eastern Catholics, for starters
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>>574733
I've never heard this. I was Baptised into a Byzantine Catholic Church and received all sacraments through the Byzantine church. I moved and have gone to a Roman Catholic Church ever since. Can you elaborate more?
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>>574729
"or a representative"
also, how does it break Nicaea?
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>>574661
Nice picture of Semiramis/Ishtar holding her son Tammuz/Horus.

Daily reminder that Catholicism and Orthodoxy are crypto-paganism. They worship the sun god.
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>>574748
depends on the church, most don't care.
I'll warn you upfront, the lack of respect for intellectualism, even downright disdain for it, by their theologians is really making me question conversion.
Every book the local priest gives me is about some monk, living a generic monk life, with the same ideas as every other monk, and then I'm expected to learn something new. I never do. It's just monks hating on the learned, saying the only true way to find God is to pray the Jesus Prayer and never sleep, reject yourself entirely, remember pride is the root of all sin, and do physical combat with demons. I'm somewhat disappointed.
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Why do the Orthodox on here hate Catholics so much more than they hate protestants? We're your brothers in spirit!
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>>574749
>"or a representative"
what if he cant send one?

Well, it wasnt called by the Bishop of Rome in the first place
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>>574830
maybe I should rephrase, it would be presided by the Bishop of Rome, first among equals and whatnot.
Kinda like the Speaker of the House in the American Congress.

>what if he can't send one?
They weren't all to common for a reason.
The Orthodox are slow as fuck when it comes to reaction time, they been trying to organize a pan-orthodox council for 100~ years now, and just this year are holding it.
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>>574767
I've heard Orthodoxy is much less concerned about science and logic and teaches to not be concerned with such things in relation to the religon. Are you a Roman Catholic who was looking to convert?
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>>574824
Probably because of shit like the Quran being read in the Vatican.
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>>574748
Most of the conservative clergy deny them the name of Churches, instead considering them irregular communities that should be under the jurisdiction of an Orthodox Church, they actively called for their abolition and try to force them to abandon their respective rites and adopt the Roman Rite
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>>574855
Source?
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>>574841
What counts as "all the bishops"?

The Bishop of Rome hasnt actually presided the councils, nor his legates
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>>574862
http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/9/vatican-makes-history-pope-allows-islamic-prayers-/
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>>574857
Wouldn't it make more sense for them to fall under the Roman rite? It seems they are much more similar to Roman Catholicism than Orthodoxy.
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>>574843
Well, it's to a point acceptable to forego logic, but several books I've read claim rationality is bad all together. I came into Christianity through rational thought, and every time it's brought up, it's not seen as genuine for Orthodoxy. A lot of Orthodox teachings I've read are cult-like in ways. I know it's biblical that a learned man knows nothing and an unlearned man can know everything, but to some point I imagine that the quote applied more to the Pharisees than anything. I can't stand the idea of "don't think about it, just accept it no matter what", and the theology is filled with that. I can understand it for the Holy Trinity, it is beyond us, and the Will of God, and such concepts, but when you apply it to the whole of the universe and all Creation, I feel you are missing out on seeing God's glory in a completely different way. The idea, to me, that from the tiniest particles of creation, to the whole of creation, just works, in any sense, for any reason, is glorying God. To tell me not to study this to be more awestruck just bugs me.
Another thing really eating away at me is how the priest wants to re-baptize me Orthodox, despite already being baptized..
Maybe I am reading the wrong things...
Liturgy is amazing, the respect in Church is beyond what I see at most other churches, historically I see them in the right on the Schism, but I can't get around the Theology.
To answer your question, I'm a late in life convert, baptized Catholic, though.
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>>574886
>Wouldn't it make more sense for them to fall under the Roman rite?
No, because the Roman rite is alien to these churches. There's a reason theyre called Eastern Catholic Churches.
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>>574908
Yeah I understand that but I am speaking from a theological stand point.
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>>574916
What does the "theological standpoint" have to do with whether they should adopt a particular rite?
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>>574880
It was during a meeting with the Israeli PM and the Head of of the Palestinian Authority and it didn't take place in a church or any other religious Christian facility. There are museums and stuff in the Vatican were Japanese Shintos take pictures of Christian art, do you think those museums are sacred space? No, they are museums. Who cares if the Koran was recited in some random office.
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From a Muslim brother to you all, I send my sincerest well-wishes for you all. May God bless each and every one of you.

The Orthodox Church and Islam are brothers in faith, I hope for you to remember that in these times of great strife and confusion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCgIswP7jPY

Ameen.
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>>574925
What wouldd be the point if they have major philosophical differences? That would be like Protestants aligning with Rome.
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>>574935
True, but Pope Francis has been very liberal in comparison to previous Popes. Especially when it has come to immigrants. He talks to much of what we have to do in terms of us changing in order to accommodate them. I don't think we should be cold hearted towards immigrants but I don't think we should have to waiver in our philosophies or culture.
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>>574998
What do you mean with "point"? The causes for schisms and communion is that there are disagreements or agreements in doctrine, not in philosophy.

Also, there have been some Protestants aligning with Rome and retaining some of their Protestant heritage, such as Anglicans, because both Catholics and these Anglicans agree on matters of doctrine
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>>574889
Seems like I would tend to think in a similar fashion as you do.. I guess I am going to have to visit an Orthodox church and see for myself. Do you think you'll still convert?
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So, /his/...
Is it a Church or a Mosque?
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>>575028
True, but I just don't see it happening. Catholics want the Orthodox church to align with Rome, anyway.
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>>575037
Akshually it's a museum.
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>>575028
And by point I mean what's the benefit?
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>>574986
God bless
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>>574986
Don't you have a church to turn into a mosque? Begone.
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>>575044
Neither do I, at least not in a future, given the current situation.

If Rome is willing to adopt the Uniate method like it did in previous centuries then I would see it happening.

>>575051
You mean what's the benefit of being in communion with Rome? Well because it is how one belongs to the One True Church.
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>>575030
I don't know right now, honestly. I need to talk to the priest, but the parish meeting was last sunday and couldn't get my thoughts to him. I honestly don't know what I'd do if not. I need an apostolic church, and I still have all my problems with Catholicism (admittedly, if the Ordinary Form of Mass didn't exist, I would have only looked at Orthodoxy as an intrigue), the Coptics, and Orientals as a whole I'd imagine would be worse in this aspect than Eastern Orthodoxy, with even less works in English and less Churches in my country.
I'm still thinking things out, by all means I think Orthodoxy is great, but my starry eyed notions of it faded and now I have to be an adult about this, sit down and contemplate in prayer and have dialog. I'm not looking for something to make me feel good, I'm looking for the One, True Church.
Pray the Schism ends, brother.
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>>575076
Go Eastern Catholic or try to make the Extraordinary Form more common with the people, it will eventually become the Ordinary Form given enough time
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>>575093
Doesn't address my issues on who I think was right in the Schism, neither could I make it to an Extraordinary Form Mass, the nearest one is 300 miles away, not a normal sunday commute.
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>>575076
>>575093

I was going to recommend Eastern Orthodox as well. Good luck to you in your endeavor. I hope you find the answers you're looking for.
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>>575102
Why do you think the Orthodox side was right?
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>>575074
I can agree with all of that. Let's hope it works out sooner or later.
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>>575108
In a childish logic, I suppose. If you have Pentarchy, and 1 leaves the other 4, why would the 1 who left be right over the 4 who stayed?
Also, I agree entirely with Catholics on the Filioque, but agree with the Orthodox on how the Pope should have called a council to add it to the creed, as per the rules.
Most the other minor stuff in the Schism is outside my care, honestly.
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>>575120
The problem is the Orthodox hate the Uniate method, and Rome is pretty unsure on what to make of it.
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>>575142
I don't understand why though. Are they literally just mad because they decided to align with Rome? And it's funny because I went to Roman Catholic school even though I'm technically Byzantine and no one knew what Byzantine Catholic even was.. I remember when we had confirmation in 8th grade everyone was confused as to why I wasn't participating.
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Can anyone recommend me some Orthodox black metal?
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Monitoring thread.
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>>575129
Well, first of all, majority doesnt make right

Secondly, the Pentarchy is a purely Byzantine concept. Most of the Popes (not just the Roman ones) rejected the claims of other Patriarchates besides Rome, Alexandria and Antioch for a long time before they were recognized as such. The formation of the Patriarchate of Constantinople and the Jerusalem Patriarchate was seen as a illegitimate by most of the other Patriarchs.

Finally, given how by the time of the schism most of the Eastern Patriarchs were obviously influenced by Byzantine Christianity and the sucession of the Greek Patriarchs pf Alexandria and Antioch is pretty dubious, why should it count as a 4 against 1 rather than a 1 against 1?
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>>575174
Well, yeah, Orthodoxy is pretty Anti-Roman.

Well I guess it's because the Eastern Catholic Churches arent well known in the West
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temple / church building is decadent as fuaark. your body is the temple of god, worshipping icons is haram to the max.
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>>575176
Spit-roasted Turk by Milo and the Chetniks.
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>>575266
Gtfo no one worships icons
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>>575276
yep you orthodox pagan faggots do. and that's why you are even worse than the jews.
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>>575276
Muslims worship Mohammed, his actions, and the written word for God. Idolatrous.
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>>575246
As I said, I have a childish logic about it. Not truly a rational way to see it, but my own way. I kinda wish we could find a compromise of systems where the liturgical method and established theology won't change be altered, but allow additions to clarify them.
I think a lot of people are in my boat, Vatican II, while not heresy (in the strictest sense), was a massive mistake.
If I was still naive, I would have said it opened the door for laypeople to believe heresy without correction, but it seems most laypeople don't understand their faith accurately anyways. I've found those who believe in the demiurge in the Orthodox church, and many many people who believe the "current year" trend of heresy in Catholicism. I guess my main issue all stemmed from my old Catholic Priest being the biggest modernist I've ever met in my life.
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>>575286
Tell me more about how enlightened you are
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>>575286
let's play spot the American, first point goes to me! :)
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>>575288
yeah sure, i think the issue is that a lot is being done in "the spirit of Vatican II" rather than interpreting the council in light of the ongoing tradition of the Church. Of course most of the changes werent wise, but theyre not a big deal considering they arent permanent (as in the new mass, etc)

And it is true that you cant expect most the laity to be pretty knowledgeable in their faith (that's why most didnt care about Henry VIII being the new head of the Church, or about the Soviets forcing Catholics to become Orthodox, they didnt saw any difference whatsoever). But still, one should still make an effort to make the laity understand it.

Also, I'm completely sorry about the bad experience you had with a priest, but I dont think one bad experience should leave a mark on your view of the Church. Incompetent clergy have always existed, especially in a modern secular post "Enlightenment" world.

All in all, I wish you my best and hope you find what youre looking for
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What's the Orthodox opinion on Lutheranism?
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>>576168
It sucks but still better than the rest of the Protestants.
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Genuine question: why/how does God love us despite all our sins?

How do you learn to love unconditionally?
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>>575176

Russian Nationalist stuff.
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bump
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Orthodox FAQ and reading list: http://pastebin.com/bN1ujq2x
Thread replies: 66
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