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Why didn't Japan go communist or at...
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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

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Why didn't Japan go communist or at least heavily socialist?
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Nips can't read
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>>571941
Traditional sentiment and rigid control structures kept anything close to socialist or communist organization from springing up.

Look at Mishima for example.
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Communism is socialism.

Socialism isn't communism.

Use terms correctly.
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>>571949
>A rigid society of submission and collectivism is the reason why a political ideology of rigidness, submission and collectivism did not thrive.
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>>571964
Traditional sentiment seems to be missing from your post, but its fine.
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>>571949
>kept anything close to socialist or communist organization from springing up.
The fuck do you call the JCP?
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>>571949
That's not true.

Japan saw a mass wave of strikes post the 1923 Kanto earthquake until the Depression hit Japan in 1930.

The worker's movement/parties split in 1924, first the left split and then the centre split from the right. I don't ahve my copy of Andrew Gordon's Labor and Imperial Democracy on Pre-War Japan on me, but it goes over the split.

The left split was dominated by the Communists, but was crushed in 1928 by the liberal Minseito government. Thousands went to jail and the Communist Party was driven underground. It continued to exist all the way through the war, but it was largely ineffectual.

The two remaining social democratic parties re-united in 1933 (I think) into the Social Masses Party, that eventually sold out to the fascists in the military and imperial court to a greater extent than the mainstream capitalist parties (who at least protested the lack of power held by the Diet).
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>>571971
I think OP meant throughout the 20th century after WWII, doesn't just about any legislative body have at least 1 communist coalition/party?
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>>571976
>The two remaining social democratic parties re-united in 1933 (I think) into the Social Masses Party, that eventually sold out to the fascists in the military and imperial court to a greater extent than the mainstream capitalist parties (who at least protested the lack of power held by the Diet).

So in the end it was traditionalism that won out. Just saying.
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>>571991
Well no shit the fascists won in the end.

But the point is that it was a fight, and that the Communists and other communists and socialists held mass power and millions of Japanese people agreed with them. The myth of the Japanese people being a series of mindless automatons who are blindly devoted to Emperor and country was a myth created by the Japanese state in the early 20th century.
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>>571980
The JCP was one of the largest Communist Parties in the western bloc though. And even more than their electoral success, they were by far the largest labor organizers in Post-War Japan, especially the trainworkers union, which was incredibly important in postwar Japan.
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>>571980
>Why wouldn't a country that was just released from US occupation not have a communist party with meaningful voting powers
>With that proximity to the Soviets, China, AND NK

I can't imagine why. Seems like fertile grounds for that sort of thing.
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>>572036
Oh yeah, forgot about the Korean Angle. Japan is the only other place in the world where you find actual fans of North Korea.
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America had Japan on a leash. They would never let Japan get away with it.
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>>571941
they received 2 heavy doses of freedom
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>>572036
>>>571980 #
>>Why wouldn't a country that was just released from US occupation not have a communist party with meaningful voting powers
Italy had. Greece had.
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>>572090
I don't personally know much about the Greece instance, but I know that in Italy, CIA was funneling massive amounts of money to opposition parties to prevent the PCI from reaching any majority position. There were even talks for a time of direct intervention should they win in order to combat any resulting influence this would allow the Soviets to gain.
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>>572090
>>572102
And Greece ended in civil war between communist and democrats supported by UK and later USA.
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They were beaten by the US and not the USSR, also they were heavily anti-Chinese.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htw1w8lYQdQ
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1) Some of the heaviest American influence post WWII
2) Shigeru Yoshida and the Liberal Party made close and favourable pacts with the farmers, offering well planned land reforms and better prices for produce
3) After the break up of the Zaibatsu by the Americans, the Keiretsu system of corporations made close bonds with the Liberal Party but also assured reasonable conditions for workers
4) Yoshida promised to meet certain goals of GDP, living standards and growth and met all of them, raising the popularity of his newly formed LDP
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>>572362
Re point 3, that's not entirely true, a whole bunch of the labour laws in Japan today are relics of the was that were continued during peace as part of
a) the welfare state that most of the western world saw until the mid 70s
and b) to help stifle worker's militancy
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>>572387

True. But my point still stands.
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Significant CIA involvement, a horrible voting system that meant Japan was effectively a one party state for 50 years and mass sackings of any government employees suspected of having Communist sympathies.
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That one hero who killed that commie on TV with a sword
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It is not because of culture. China and Korea had/have communism.

It is because of this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEx7uCFX_nA


>>571946
>Nips can't read
Japan used to be famous for its high literacy
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>>571941
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>>572347
Better dead etc.
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>>571941
1) "Class collaboration" or the perception of class collaboration (the legacy of classic fascist propaganda that was preserved and cultivated after WWII precisely to prevent class conflict)
2) Extremely networked, interdependent and incestuous elite class runs the Iron Triangle and splits the pie evenly among themselves, so in essence Japan was already Soviet Russia plus Capitalism minus Stalin.
3) Paternalist concept of the corporate family, remarkably small income inequality and few ultrarich individuals, quick transition to a service economy, large middle class, white collar jobs, high growth and job security (before the crash at least) makes proletarian struggles and class warfare in general seem insignificant and pointless.
4) Japs hated all the communist people surrounding them like poison.
5) muh confucianism muh rice fields muh emperor etc

I'm probably forgetting a few reasons, but the main one is that Japan was practically socialist already by many standards.
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Because unlike in China, traditional culture was alive and well in Japan and the Imperial system survived war and upheaval. And although the evil commie cult tried, many more Japanese were ready to defend their traditional culture, communism's promise to do away with thousands of years of tradition and tie their fate to China and the USSR was unpalatable to the average worker due to widespread education and literacy since not only the Meiji period but the Edo period, when Japan had unusually high rates of literacy thanks to the temple school system. So the communists weren't able to as easily trick illiterate peasants and workers like they did in Russia, China, Vietnam, etc.

All in all thank Amaterasu they didn't, now they're an economic superpower relative to their size, are a first world country, and have maintained all those beautiful ancient traditions. It's horrific to think about red guards burning away Japan's well-preserved heritage, banning martial arts and outlawing Buddhism and Shinto, encouraging people to give up ancient rules of politeness to attempt to make everyone into a rude filthy pleb etc. as happened in China.
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>>571941
Communist revolutions are only successful in impoverished societies

There were the purveyors of imperialism and capitalism, not victims of it.
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>>572568
>It is not because of culture. China and Korea had/have communism.

That's great. If you think Japanese culture is the same as Chinese and Korean you're profoundly dumb.
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>>574363
i.e. a communist who reduces East Asian history and ideology to "asiatic form of production" hurr durr slave society because Marxists aren't allowed to think outside of their autistic view of history.
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>>574363
>>574393
Oh for fuck's sake. Only Japanese ultranationalists pretend traditional Japanese culture is truly a special snowflake, and even they used to study Confucianism and Buddhism.
Sure, Japan and Korea are culturally different from China, in the sense that Belgium and France are culturally different from Germany. They're still deeply similar.
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>>574267
>Implying Japan wouldn't be communism finally done right.
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Japan was controlled largely by the United States after WW2, and since the US pumped 2 Billion Dollars into their economy and helped them rebuild, communism wouldn't have been nessasary or needed in any way.
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>>574267
>Because unlike in China, traditional culture was alive and well in Japan and the Imperial system survived war and upheaval.
You could say BTFO failing governments is a very Chinese tradition. Which is what the Republic did to the Empire and what the People's Republic did to the Republic.

Meanwhile, Japanese would avoid calling out their main leadership's failures and blame somebody else instead. A Scapegoat Culture if one could say. Hence all those changes in Shogunal leadership. "The Emperor did not fuck up in ruling us! He had bad advise! Remove current shogunate!"
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>>574431
>A Scapegoat Culture if one could say.
A honor student culture actually. Read Takeuchi Yoshimi.
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>>574438
That's everyone in East Asia to some extent.
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Douglas MacArthur purged commies left and right, unlike his counterparts in Europe, who collaborated with commies and had staffs infiltrated by their agents. He wasn't afraid to collaborate with seedy elements of Japan's underworld either.
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>>574446
Takeuchi claimed that it was mainly a Japanese thing and that was most true when he wrote it in WWII, but East Asia has emulated Japan since then (in this process they did not become like contemporary Japan but rather more like pre-War Japan, and with this flawed emulation they perfectly copied Japan's own development. Ironies upon ironies.)
He also meant it more figuratively than you imagine.
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Because no jews
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>>574267
>It's horrific to think about red guards burning away Japan's well-preserved heritage, banning martial arts and outlawing Buddhism and Shinto, encouraging people to give up ancient rules of politeness to attempt to make everyone into a rude filthy pleb etc. as happened in China.

I will never understand how most specialists in Asian history are sympathetic to the Cultural Revolution. It destroyed most of the sources for their research. Are they really so committed to communist that they are willing to see their job as historian rendered inviable if that serves the "cause"?
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>>574471
>when he wrote it in WWII
shortly after WWII actually, but he was discussing pre-War Asia anyway.
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>>574482
Because they're either modern history, or they're from China.
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>>574482
Modern academia is infected with communists.
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>>574471
Actually just let me quote the most interesting passage:

"Japanese culture is superior: this is absolutely true. It was built by superior champions and so must be superior. The honor students consider it superior, and so the people (the backward students) must agree. However, a notion exists among these honor students that Japanese culture is an imitation, without originality. But since, as they argue, imitation is in its own way superior, the “imitationist” camp is in the end identical with the “superiorist” camp. The honor students claim that Japan is capable of imitation precisely because of its superiority, or again that imitation itself is creative, i.e., superior. The people (the backward students) are persuaded by this argument. Yet the honor students admit that within this superior Japanese culture elements exist that are not superior: these are the backward students. Japanese culture would be perfect if it consisted only of honor students, and whatever imperfections it has can be explained by thepresence of the backward students. Regardless of the honor students’ efforts, the backward students lower the general cultural level. How unfortunate, they say!
The people (the backward students) react to these words with feelings of contrition toward the honor students for causing such decline. When the honor students achieve victory in international competition, the backward students share in the honor. They must cheer for the honor students, and they will: “The honor students will win because they’re superior. And yet they lost. How can this be? They lost because the backward students pulled them down. The backward students stood in the way of victory. The loss took place with the backward students, not with the honor students. It is they who bear responsibility for the wartime defeat.” Such is the logic of honor student culture."
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>>574504
Hence the substitution of players. But those who were substituted in were also honor students, for only honor students are allowed to play. This was simply a substitution of imperial university honor students for those from the military academies. “While it’s true that the former honor students failed, this was not because they were honor students but because their methods were wrong: they forgot to take into account the backward students. The loss can be attributed to the inferior students, that is to say, the honor students failed to take them into account.” The new honor students try to redeem that failure by bringing the backward students closer to them, and the people (the backward students) can only thank them for this favor: “Even the honor students lost, but they lost because of us. They showed us favor, and we are guilty for letting them down. How can we not be grateful? We must try harder, we must obey the commands of the honor students and draw closer to them so as not to lose in the future. It would be shameful if we don’t raise the general average of this superior Japanese culture.” Such is the educational spirit of honor student culture.
“Indeed! Education will succeed. The backward students learned a lesson from the defeat and will now follow the example of the honor students and become clever. Honor student culture will flourish. There is no defeat for Japanese ideology, for it represents a superior spiritual force that turns even defeat into victory. Regard the superiority of Japanese culture! Long live Japanese culture!”
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>>574482
>I will never understand how most specialists in Asian history are sympathetic to the Cultural Revolution.

I am not sympathetic to the CR but I believe its overrated in terms of "destroying Chinese heritage." The true objective of the CR was against the political enemies of the Party, who were just conveniently labelled off as part of the "Old Ways of Thinking." Fucking doctors and scientists were victims of it.

Furthermore in terms of heritage, what were mostly destroyed are mostly small shrines and fanes. The big landmarks were actually left alone. Some were even defended *by* party elites who disagreed with the CR, like Zhou Enlai's defense of the Forbidden City's ruins from the Red Guards.

In addition, people seem to forget how superstitious the Older Chinese generation was. Sure I can fuck up a temple of the gods, but when it comes to fucking up my ancestor's temple I'd freeze. Because these cunts have the ability to curse me and make my afterlife a living hell no matter what CCP Propaganda says.

Everyone-particularly in the west- saw the physical destruction of minor sites, but China's traditions lived on. Girls were still getting arranged marriages, cunts still believe in Feng Shui, traditional Chinese medicine, and hold Chinese New Year festivities greater than the worldwide one and so on.

If anything, the poverty caused by the Mao Years destroyed Chinese heritage more than the CR. Its what led to the abandonment of traditional courtesies and tomb raiding.
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>>574464
As said above, the same thing happened Europe, especially Italy and Greece.

And the Americans were more than happy to collaborate with the Mafia (Italian and American).
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>>571941
Cultural institutions like lifetime employment and company loyalty (which ran both ways--Japanese companies really did take care of its employees in ways that you wouldn't expect a western corporation to) substituted for class warfare. They had labor peace while the country could recover.
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>>574431
>Meanwhile, Japanese would avoid calling out their main leadership's failures and blame somebody else instead. A Scapegoat Culture if one could say. Hence all those changes in Shogunal leadership. "The Emperor did not fuck up in ruling us! He had bad advise! Remove current shogunate!"

Uh, what? The Emperor of Japan usually is powerless. And for some time, poor.

>On October 21, 1500, the Emperor died. His successor Go-Kashiwabara lacked the funds to pay for the funeral ceremony, and the deceased emperor's body lay in a palace storeroom for over a month before a donation was made to the court, and the funeral could be observed.

Talking about Go-Kashiwabara, it took him 26 years to afford his own coronation ceremony. His son had to wait 10 years. And he had to sell calligraphy to live.

The Shoguns were the real rulers (or in certain times, individual daimyos).
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>>574352
I don't know about successful, the few remaining truly communist states aren't doing so well.

Though it is ironic that the impoverished societies are the ones that go communist since Marx thought that it would be places like Britain that go first.
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>>571941
Didn't the US heavily fund the LDP and the mob to keep the left down?
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>>572568
True hero.
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>>574267
>thank Amaterasu
This is a fantastic weeb posted.
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>>571941
Gommies fear the samurai.
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>>571941
Because they weren't retarded peasants like their fellow east asians.
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>>572568
By this logic Lee Harvey Oswald destroyed the Democratic Party.
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>>571949
>Traditional sentiment and rigid control structures kept anything close to socialist or communist organization from springing up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Communist_Party#Occupation_of_Japan

You are just wrong. They did have a rather successful communist party early on in the post war era til they bled out there political capital on the issue of the monarchy. It would of been a lot smart to try to focus on things that they could of shown results from.
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>>571941
They did
Then the guy who was in charge got stabbed with a god damn sword
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In the last election 13.3% voted for the communist party in Japan. That probably makes it one of the biggest communist parties in a non communist country in the world I would guess.
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>>574425
>Implying any group of human beings could ever be communism done right.
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>>574267
gracias mishima
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>>578271
ye of little faith
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Japan has many elements of social democracy.

-Cheap and efficient healthcare
-Cheap public universities
-Nearly guaranteed employment
-Large, powerful unions
-Protectionism

Japan has a unique blend of nationalism mixed with social democracy which is basically National Socialism-lite
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