>>544584 >Its like he is the antagonist of a bad fanfiction. He has godly fighting powers when not fighting the self insert and starts wars because he wants to rape a specific person that happens to the the self inserts waifu?
>>544561 Because he used to be a socialist then turned to fascism only to get cucked by the newer insane version to the north which he made some efforts to resist, though he was still a dictator who sided with the Nazis and everything that goes with it this and his tragic end redeems him a little in the eyes of many.
>>544866 Yeah, I really find his end kind of sad. By the time the Nazis "freed" him, he realized that he was a failure.
>In an interview in January 1945 by Madeleine Mollier, a few months before he was captured and executed by Italian anti-fascist partisans, he stated flatly: "Seven years ago, I was an interesting person. Now, I am little more than a corpse." He continued: "Yes, madam, I am finished. My star has fallen. I have no fight left in me. I work and I try, yet know that all is but a farce... I await the end of the tragedy and – strangely detached from everything – I do not feel any more an actor. I feel I am the last of spectators."
I think reading that it's hard not to feel just a little bad for him. He had a large ego for sure but he was doing what he truly thought was best for Germany and in the end it resulted in nothing but fucking up the country and turning it over to the Nazis.
>>544660 The Japanese were too busy hating all of Asia and local white men.
What's worth mentioning is when the Government visited Emperor Hirohito to officially declare a state of war, he read an excerpt of a poem by his grandfather(?), the gist of which was "Don't we know that all men across the seas are our brothers?".
He actually had a pretty good run in Italy between his rise to power and the war. He had a pretty good mind for economics (playing ball with both north and south Italy, unlike most of its PMs), laudable goals, and was a fair diplomat, appealing to the "western" (huge shows of diplomatic support for the US, washington/london naval treaties), "central" (Rhineland Pact, protecting Austria), and "eastern" (Italo-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact, Nationalist China support) worlds.
The large Catholic population here in /his/ would probably recognize his most important domestic achievement as the solution to the Roman Question with the Lateran Pacts, establishing a proper Vatican City. His largest non-religious accomplishment was definitely the foundation of the IRI, which had something to do with pretty much every single positive thing that happened for the Italian economy since its foundation.
He also started the "battles" for land and wheat, which, while not particularly successful in their intended goal (providing cheap food for impoverished Italians), had very positive long-term impacts as far as land usage in Italy went, with several new large towns from the era still surviving to this day.
Of course, with this all being done, Italy had little to invest as far as its military forces (most of its developments between '22 and '40 being "reorganizing what already exists") absolutely was not prepared for the second world war, which is why Mussolini came on with the assumption everything'd be over in a few weeks. That didn't go so well for him.
Because he generally wasn't as bad, until the 1940s, I'd recommend either of Denis Mack Smith's biographies of Mussolini of you're interested in learning more about the man
Mussolini's fascism varied greatly from Hitler's national socialism in a variety of ways, most noticeably social and foreign policies
Looking at Mussolini's racial policies, generally he took a very lax view on race as a whole, the old famous quote that pure races don't exist, and there was no doctrines stating how the Italians were gods chosen people and better than the rest, leading many to portray Mussolini as a non-racist
However contradictory to this is the Italian treatment of Slavic minorities throughout the regime, most noticeably the Slovene minority being persecuted under Mussolini's rule, and there is damming evidence to suggest the man did hold racist views against them. However until the 1940s no concentration camps existed in European Italy, with Slovenes deported to Yugoslavia, suggesting that the concentration camps were again a result of Hitler forcing Mussolini to introduce further racial laws
The African concentration camps are less of an issue when describing Mussolini as 'good' considering the British and French operated similar camps throughout their African Empires, dating back to the British in the 2nd Boer war
Too it must also be noted that concentration camps =/= extermination camps as its often taken to mean, concentration camps may make up extermination camps, but do not need to, officially a concentration camp is an interment camp, groups collected without trial and forced into manual labour, the same establishments used for Japanese-Americans
Secondly in foreign policy, there was no policy of 'lebensraum', yes there were territorial ambitions in Europe, but these were largely based on taking territories consisting of Italian minorities, and turning the remaining territories into client states, the only major exception being Albania which was annexed... cont
>>546060 ...annexed directly to Italy, and established as an autonomous region under a personal union under Kingdom of Italy, there were no plans for any mass genocide of the Albanian people, only plans for future integration through encouraging Italian language teachings, and Catholicism to the largely divided Albanian people, and we too must remember encouraging integration was a policy that had long existed throughout the world whenever territories with significant minorities were acquired. Whilst also irredentism was and still is a common concept, countries demanding back territories that hold significant amount of their peoples, or even if they just held them previously and demand them back through proximity (Spain and Gibraltar, Argentina and the Falkland islands).
The bulk of Italian territorial ambitions were in Africa, against the British and French colonies in Egypt and Tunisia to create an Italian Empire in 'mare nostrum', this is where we have to remember colonial ambitions and desires to gain new colonies were not seen as evil or criminal, but were simply part of the times, think that for these colonies to even exist they were originally annexed by European powers from the natives who occupied the land, forcing them into their empires, imperialism against the 'lesser peoples' was an accepted concept until the postwar period, just that colonial conflicts between the great powers had failed to materialise into full out wars, mostly making up crisis' and minor colonial skirmishes, Italy's foreign policy was a sign of the time, to gain more resources by gaining more territory.
Mussolini by today's standards is no good man, and probably by the standards of the time he wasn't that great either, but before and even after his illfated alliance with Hitler, the two were incomparable in how evil they were, with Hitler leagues ahead.
Can't believe I missed it out earlier but Mussolini's regime was far more lenient on the Jewish people than Hitler's... cont
>>546098 ...Hitler's regime. Until the Italian racial laws were introduced you had many Jewish members of the Italian Fascist party, many I'm high places and the Jewish population faced no more discrimination under the Italian Fascist reigime than what already existed under the previous reigimes with the Jews facing no major discrimination in Italy since the Papal states were reduced to only the Vatican. What is noticeable though, is that even after the racial laws were passed, French Jews still tried to flee from both German occupied France and the Vichy regime to the small Italian sector of France, despite the passing of the racial laws the Average Italian, Fascist party member, or Mussolini himself felt no ill towards the Jews, with the population only following the racial laws due to their status as las, and Mussolini only introducing them due to Hitler's demands (Jews made up less than 1% of the Italian population, there were more Slovenes in Italy than Jews).
And that's all I've got, Mussolini was go good boy who dindu nuttin wrong, but he was nowhere near the level of cruel dictator that Adolf Hitler was, this of course doesn't excuse his actions.
as an Italian i can say that a lot of us are fascists or at laest have some level of respect for Mussolini, personally i believe that he would have been a great leader had he not joined the war, he deeply loved Italy and it's people. before you ask, no i'm not fascist.
>>547395 considering that we study history in an extremely detailed way there is little room for opinions, we study everything there is to study about history and form our own opinions, usually it's those that did not study enough that hate him, they think that he was a racist maniac and believe that he did nothing worth considering even slighly nice.
>>547466 Sorta this. I'm not a fascist cocksucker like you but in truth Mussolini's brand of fascism was supported by Italian Jews, who got betrayed by Hitler once Mussolini got deposed. Most people blame Mussolini for associating with Hitler rather than any specific racial policies he enacted. Its the people you associate with, not just your views or lack of them.
>>547658 >Drags Italy into a war they absolutely cannot win >Gets bootyblasted by Allies and needs Krauts to bail him out >King tells him to GTFO >Hitler has to bail him out >Takes over rump state even more unpopular than before >Completely useless without tremendous Nazi support >Eventually gets whats coming to him
But nope, Mussolini was a gud boy, he dindu nuffin wrong, he was rebuilding the Roman empire and even went to sunday school!
>>545044 it is true, there were a lot of italian jews who were fascists. It is because, qith the birth of the State in 1860, they became citizen and stopped being cucked. They felt a very strong bond for the monarchy and they fought en masse in WWI. Then a loto of them were fascist. But a loto of them were commuist/democratic/partisans. And even those of had been strongly fascists, after the Racial Laws of 1938 they were persecuted. See, for example, Ettore Ovaza or the Turin based group La Nostra Bandiera. source: I'm an italian historian
>>547395 in the last decades he was painted in a negative way, but usually with the meme "he wasn't that bad before joining Hitler". But in reality he was a fierce dictator. He genocided Lybians and Ethipians (see Debra Libanos massacre for example). He used poisonous gas for the first time in human wars. He killed communist and democrats even before rising to power. He was absolute shit
>>547466 but Mussolini blindly followed Hitler racial laws. If he wasn't antisemitic, he could have avoid to follow HH in this path.
The reality is, Mussolini became racist and a lot of his Fascist Party colleagues were blatantly racist (see La Difesa Della Razza). But italians were not antisemitic. The regime was, but people wasn0t that much. Even Hanna Arendt agrees with that, after studying the persecution of jews throughout Europe
Stefan zweig hearing upon some italian guy being sent to forced labor for 10 years , sent a letter to mussolini asking him to show leniency because the guy had a family and they were sad. You know what mussolini did ?
if anything that makes mussolini much worse, since mustard gas was so fucking terrible that even the fiercest enemies agreed it should be banned. it's something you don't even wish onto your biggest rival.
>>548354 yes I was confused. Italy was the first to use Iprite vs Africans but in the first part of the colonization, well before Mussolini's rise to power. But, Mussolini used heavily chemical weapons against people in African colonies. It is true, he was only interested in power. But in that period, a lot of scientist thought races were true. So it's not hard to believe he believed them.
Hanna Arendt, I quoted her because she can't be accused of loving fascist regimes, but she acknowledged that Italy (along with Bulgaria and Denmark) were the safest places in Europe for Jews during WWII
>>548359 he was not antisemite like Hitler or the Nazi Party or the Ukrainans, Croats and Polish peasants who slaughtered thousands of jews. But he had no problem in putting Italian Jews into gas chambers, so maybe he wasn't that antisemite if compared to Hitler but he surely wasn't philo semite as well
>>547628 They used it as a cultural base and source of inspiration, but their cultural motion was clearly towards the future. Of course, you can't launch yourself at modernity without a solid foundation to spring off of.
>>544561 Because he was not THAT bad. He was not bad at all. Most of the bad stuff that happened to Italy before WWII were a result of autarky imposed to Italy by foreign powers because he dared create colonies of his own.
Of course the whole cultural thing was retarded, but italians and plebs and somewhat liked it.
His mistake was joining Hitler and WWII, had he gone the Franco way and developed Lybia more things would have been danker.
>>547387 >as an Italian i can say that a lot of us are fascists It's true that a lot of Italians do have respect for Bonito (I do myself), but a small percentage of those would declare themselves fascists
>>547395 Depends on your education. In my case we studied the historical events, confronted his regime with the ones of Hitler and Stalin plus Harendt and De Felice stances on fascism vs totalitarism.
After World War II, the usual Allied perspective of Italians was that of the bumbling fool who had little knowledge of what he was doing during the war. As anyone with half a brain would know, this is far from the truth.
>>546060 >However contradictory to this is the Italian treatment of Slavic minorities throughout the regime But not really. To Mussolini, there was no race, only the nation. The slovenes (and the lybians), by considering themselves not italian, defied that idea, so they had to be oppressed. If they just accepted to be italianized quietly, Mussolini would have treated them no worse than any proper italian.
>>550985 >developed Lybia more More than he actually did? Like 90% of lybian infrastructure is still italian made from occupation times. Well it was before they tore everything down when Gheddafi died.
>>544561 >What's with this weird tendency to portray Mussolini as ''not that bad''? Because he wasn't that bad. He was a dictator and he repressed his opposition, yeah, but he didn't destroy his country through his policies, he didn't genocide anyone, he actually kept pretty splendid international relations until the ethiopian crisis (and even that was far more the fault of the international community than his own, his behaviour was nothing outrageous in those years). He was not a good man, but as far as dictators go? He really wasn't that bad. Of course retards woh can't into context or refuse to see things beyond black and white get hissy fits when Mussolini isn't thought to be as 'evil' as Hitler, but that's because they're retards.
>>551602 Yeah he did a lot but much more stuff was built by Italians later on thanks to the efforts of Enrico Mattei and Eni. The fact that we Italians allowed the destruction of Lybia pissess me off so fucking much, we showed the world what a bunch of pussies we are when it comes to foreign policy.
>>551656 Last time Italy went against the international community it was forced into diplomatic isolation and an alliance with an extremely disagreeable party. Your politicians must still be traumatized.
>>551675 >he was some serious case of hypocrite It was actually part of his political philosophy not to have fixed positions on issues, but just go with the current and the moods of the people. To be precise, more than a hypocrite he was a side switcher.
what are you all missing about Mussolini is one important thing. what was his job before taking the power? he was a Journalist. he knew how to hook on people feelings. he was a media person, director of one of the most read newspapers in Italy. He was a fucking journalist so he knew how to manipulate the public opinion. It is clear
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