>>532004 Undoubtedly Armenians were massacred cruelly, and many more died by disease whilst being marched to the deserts of Syria. That being said, the Turkish argument is as follows: The ottoman empire was a dying empire- and the Armenians were in open rebellion and supporting the invading Russians. Like the Americans relocating the Japanese to internment camps, the Ottomans had to take action. HOWEVER.. unlike the Americans the Turks were a dying empire, and the Armenians were ,again, openly attacking... The Turks claim that the government never intended it to be ethnic cleansing, but the circumstances of total war, disease, lack of infrastructure, and unruly and disheartened gendarmes in charge of the relocation- the result was a large loss of Armenian lives.
whether or not this absolves the Turks i can't say.. but that's the other argument
>>533663 >>533663 also doesnt having a very important choke points of the discussion obsolete makes the discussion useless, i really hope that we can keep things civil here, and not side with whoever wasnt the turks cause hating on them is easy (lel turkroach)
>>533805 Faggot. There is very little direct evidence for the MUH 6 GORILLION anyways.
You've been brainwashed since birth to think that Germans were the worst thing to ever happen to the planet and Jews are the most persecuted dindu nuffins on the planet.
You know, there's a saying.
If you meet one asshole, you've met an asshole. If everyone you meet is an asshole, you're an asshole.
Regardless of whether or not the Holocaust happened the way we're commonly told it did (it didn't, the Nuremberg Trials even specifically said actual evidence wouldn't be required and eyewitness testimony and hearsay would be permissible), it doesn't change the fact that there's a good reason the Jews have been hated by literally everyone in history.
>>533832 Not really. I'm from Russia, we do learn about the Holocaust but we are also taught about the huge loss of civilian life in the USSR and I'd say we talk about the latter more in History class.
>>533869 >m-muh 6 gorillion isn't important enough! Fuck off, faggot. So even if we accept the 6 million number (or is it 8? Idk they change it so often I have trouble keeping track), there have been WAY more ethnic groups in history who have suffered more death than that. 6 million is fucking babby tier compared to the genocides the Asians and Middle East has carried out in its day. It's especially scrum tier compared to the (arguable) genocide of the Natives of the Americas.
So if anything it is edgy to prioritize the (alleged) genocide of the Jews when there are groups out there that have suffered way fucking more.
Go watch CNN some more. I hear they're having another segment on "15 heartbreaking photos that will make you say 'fuck borders and laws and my culture and sheeeit'"
>>532004 >did the armenian genocide really happens
It wasn't a genocide in the proper sense. Genocide implies a systematic and organized attempt to eliminate a particular racial or ethnic group. Lots of Armenians died but most of the deaths can probably be explained by a multitude of factors without having to fall back on the stereotype of the "ebil Turc"
>>533965 the Turks were attempting to ethnically cleanse parts of the territory the controlled of Armenians so that when the empire fell apart the Armenians couldn't take some territory with them in other words "lets take all these Armenians and push them somewhere else" except it was handled in such a god awful way that enough people died for the Armenians to call it a genocide.
>>534021 the weird part about late-ottoman empire is, never before had the ottomans had to ''draw'' borders before based solely on ethnicity.Sure most Bey's had land with more or less same culture group under their hands, but still it made the ''which land is armenian,which land is turkish, which land is greek''etc very hard.As long as the ottomans were concerned, anything close to İstanbul was theirs, so there is still alot of discussion of ''were the armenians really the majority in said area or is it some Allies WW1 propaganda against the ottomans?''
>>532004 The question is, how many of the murdered were rebelling and how many were just sitting in their villages milking their goats? Durkey will say a lot, Armenia will say most families dindu nuffin. Doesn't take away from the fact that Ottomans targeted defenseless Christians like the Assyrians who never even rebelled until soldiers came near their villages and started taking away there Armenian neighbours. In fact, they were targeted multiple times in the past in fear that they may eventually grow strong and cause trouble for their independence. Ottoman policies were to DELETE any group of people who thought opposed their ideology and considering how expensive Ottonan territory was, that meant killing millions of Christians. These Christians lived on the same land for thousands of years and wanted independence, which is why I sympathise for them. Turkey shouldn't exist desu senpai.
>>533869 I'm not being edgy. In the grand scheme of things, the holocaust was not that big of a deal. Even in the 20th century. For instance, stalinist russia and maoist china were both far worse than the holocaust.
the armenians stabbed from the back while the turks while they were fighting a three front wars and they still lost and they got genocided, its their own fault also OP yes the genocide did in fact happened
>>534793 care to elaborate... >>533634 The part debated is weather it was an intentional ethnic cleansing through government orders >>533690 no because no one denies that Jews were purposefully condemned to elimination by government orders as part of the final solution
>>533900 ok, let's clarify something. the native american "genocide", was no the systematic killing of natives with the objetive of wipeing them from existence, the biggest percentege of native dead after columbus arrival is due to illnes, that's not genocide, that's literally natural selection. it's not like columbus said "hey, im sure people across the sea have a not so great inmune system we have not even discovered yet. let's go there and let the virus and bacetria (wich we haven't discovered yet also) kill people for us." There were small mass killings of native americans but those where small in numbers (at least when you compare them with armenian/jewish/camboyan numbers) and its objective was not to wipe natives from existence, was to conquer their lands becose they would not give it withour fighting.
>>535679 Yeah, we do, I think they get talked about in the context of such political organisations like the Black Hundred etc IIRC. We also are taught about the Doctor's plot, the Pale of Settlement etc.
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